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[crazygambit]

My local schools (here in the UK) bought Raspberry Pi units instead. That's a far better and cheaper option.

of course, that's purely for IT/programming lessons - I understand an iPad would be as a workbook replacement, which is a shit idea

I disagree. If you could change all textbooks for iPads it would be a major win for students. It would stop the practice of making some bullshit minor changes and charging for a whole new edition of the book, now it would just be a patch.

Though I'm thinking publishers will oppose that with their lives.

 

[RuGalz]

I disagree. If you could change all textbooks for iPads it would be a major win for students. It would stop the practice of making some bullshit minor changes and charging for a whole new edition of the book, now it would just be a patch.

Though I'm thinking publishers will oppose that with their lives.

What stops them from making yearly edition an in-app purchase? or later becomes subscription based?

 

[GuitarAtomik]

I think tablets make a lot of sense in replacing stuff like text books, but iPads are overboard and aren't even the most efficient way to do that. It makes a lot more sense to either get them cheaper Android tablets, or get them color eReaders like a Nook. iPads are too expensive to basically be used as an eReader.

 

[SamuelSupreme]

Aren't there still schools in LA that are using outdated text books?

 

[ppor]

Some physical textbooks lock their homework assignments behind a website using a redemption code, similar to gaming preorder codes. Just another way to hurt the used textbook market.

I bet digital textbook publishers would follow the game industry in how they sell annualized edition updates. Basically buy a sequel instead of paying for an expansion pack upgrade.

 

[Ourobolus]

This is the shit I deal with on a daily basis.

"Oh, you want to do Project X? Well, what's the business case? What's the need?"
"Uh...well, to tell you the truth, we already bought the software because we got a great deal..."
"...so you're just doing it to do it, then."
"I'm not saying that."
Project stops halfway through because they didn't do their due diligence
Project Manager goes to work for the vendor

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Bumping this.

The LA School District is seeking a refund from Apple/Pearson, and might possibly sue them. Apparently the iPads have been a giant clusterfuck.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-ipad-curriculum-refund-20150415-story.html

Before they sue apple they should slap themselves.

Should have been beyond obvious that giving kids an iPad would end badly.

 

[Rich!]

I disagree. If you could change all textbooks for iPads it would be a major win for students. It would stop the practice of making some bullshit minor changes and charging for a whole new edition of the book, now it would just be a patch.

Though I'm thinking publishers will oppose that with their lives.

I said Workbooks. Not textbooks.

 

[Dicer]

Bumping this.

The LA School District is seeking a refund from Apple/Pearson, and might possibly sue them. Apparently the iPads have been a giant clusterfuck.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-ipad-curriculum-refund-20150415-story.html

I'm no fan of Apple, but how is it their fault the LA school system is a bunch of knuckleheads exactly?

As I stated when this thread first came around, $200 android tablets would have served them just as well...

Shocked LA didn't order a bunch a BEATS headphones for the AV lessons as well..

 

[Crazymoogle]

if you're about to spend $500m on equipment for your schools, you could probably get the subcontractor to spend some money making android versions of their ios apps..I get the initial appeal of tablets - its like a little book but the pages never get torn. And they are interactive.

If you have a young kid today, you'd see the pressing appeal of tablets. It's easier to pick up than speaking words. They are (expensive) interactive touch books. Apple is a bit of a risk - it's the device everyone knows, but (a) they are valuable enough to be stolen and (b) for whatever reason it sounds like the district did not get a significant discount on the price.

Based on the LA Times article, it sounds like LAUSD is on extremely shaky ground trying to push Apple, but that they have some valid complaints against Pearson, mixed in with what looks like a highly negligent review process of the bid.

- Did not ask for an online study curriculum
- Had no delivery checklist
- Little / no money spent on training staff to teach using it
- Bureaucracy (a lot of it)

A single device and shared app environment is actually a good idea for schools - putting everyone on the same page and giving a specific service method. But it looks like they had no idea what to ask for, no idea what to do once the orders arrived, and no response except to claim they did not get what they wanted.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

It cracks me up too how these technology-ignorant higher-ups think getting these kids touch-based tablets will somehow prepare them for highschool and college where they'll need to type papers, use excel, powerpoint, type out math formulas in various programs, etc, etc. Like knowing how to tap on everything is going to give them an advantage in the future. I've had a lot of words about this topic in general but it is/was one of the stupidest fucking wastes of money for the education system in recent years.

Like someone said in the other thread, the best option would have been to use less expensive devices, create an OS or school-specific content delivery system/manager, use/create programs that are specific to each grade and subject with a unifying background system between school for comparison and admin sake. This way kids wouldn't be using them for porn (by either circumventing the parental controls or having parents who don't give a shit) and off-topic games (during class mind you), and maybe not getting robbed for them or stolen as much if they weren't iPads.

I had to deal with this crap first-hand and it was about as nonsensical and frustrating as I could handle. Good luck in high school Bobby, you are a master candy crush player and quick alt-tabber (to switch programs and pretend to your teacher your actually on-task). I'm sure high school and any studying/hw using m/kb/practical application will be easy for you /s.

 

[poppabk]

Chromebooks have their own horrible catches to come along with them. The only GOOD thing about them is their price frankly. "Hey, let's get these because they are dirt cheap, in the meantime handing over control of all features, services, management and costs/billing to Google" This was the EXACT same thing that led to Microsoft's rise to dominance in the 90s. "Well we are already using their OS, and they are cutting us a break on their productivity pack. Well we are already using their OS and productivity pack, and they are cutting us a break on their server OS architecture"

What you wrote is exactly why chromebooks are perfect for use at schools.

 

[darscot]

I think iPads are a bad investment as a learning tool. They are amazing for email, the web and organization but your not learning anything on one. Also Apple cripples them so quickly, every ios update makes the old ones slower and slower. You only getting 2 years out of one.

 

[Blackhead]

I'm no fan of Apple, but how is it their fault the LA school system is a bunch of knuckleheads exactly?

As I stated when this thread first came around, $200 android tablets would have served them just as well...

Shocked LA didn't order a bunch a BEATS headphones for the AV lessons as well..

Federal grand jury subpoenaed documents from L.A. Unified
Supt. Deasy's early and avid support of iPads under intense scrutiny

The pitch came from a smiling man in a jacket and tie, sitting at his desk and rhapsodizing about the wonders one product could bring to the sprawling Los Angeles Unified School District. The new item would lead to "huge leaps in what's possible for students" and would "phenomenally . . . change the landscape of education."

The speaker was Los Angeles schools Supt. John Deasy. The object of his admiration was the iPad. And the venue was a promotional video for Apple, later posted online by the computer giant.

The schools chief made the video more than a year before the district formally opened bidding that was supposed to give not just Apple, but a variety of computer and software companies an equal opportunity at a massive technology expansion in the nation's second-largest school district...

Deasy formally launched the effort in his 2012 back-to-school address to administrators, pledging to provide a tablet to every student.

Behind the scenes, in the months prior, he, and then-Deputy Supt. Jaime Aquino, had been in talks with Apple to provide a device and Pearson to supply the curriculum, according to emails released through the California Public Records Act. Deasy traveled twice to Apple's Cupertino headquarters to meet with Apple officials, including chief executive Tim Cook...

that's probably why

If you have a young kid today, you'd see the pressing appeal of tablets. It's easier to pick up than speaking words. They are (expensive) interactive touch books. Apple is a bit of a risk - it's the device everyone knows, but (a) they are valuable enough to be stolen and (b) for whatever reason it sounds like the district did not get a significant discount on the price.

Based on the LA Times article, it sounds like LAUSD is on extremely shaky ground trying to push Apple, but that they have some valid complaints against Pearson, mixed in with what looks like a highly negligent review process of the bid.

- Did not ask for an online study curriculum
- Had no delivery checklist
- Little / no money spent on training staff to teach using it
- Bureaucracy (a lot of it)

A single device and shared app environment is actually a good idea for schools - putting everyone on the same page and giving a specific service method. But it looks like they had no idea what to ask for, no idea what to do once the orders arrived, and no response except to claim they did not get what they wanted.

Pearson is a subcontractor to Apple so ultimately the buck stops at the top, no?

 

[Bomber Bob]

fuck Apple, get those kids laptops

 

[Hari Seldon]

Before they sue apple they should slap themselves.

Should have been beyond obvious that giving kids an iPad would end badly.

Yes I agree with you, but apparently the software that Pearson wrote was terrible and didn't live up to the promises, and also possible criminal corruption lol.

 

[Dunlop]

fuck Apple, get those kids laptops

Get them Chromebooks for a fraction of the price

 

[Daedardus]

Electronic screens as a textbook replacement is still a bad idea. As a university student I know from own experience that those textbooks weigh a ton and cost a lot but they are a lot easier on the eyes. My study efficieny goes up by fivefold when I have a paper version of an electronic coursebook. Also because you're not as easily distracted when you only take your textbook with you when you study, as opposed to checking out notifications and browsing the internet repeatedly

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Electronic screens as a textbook replacement is still a bad idea. As a university student I know from own experience that those textbooks weigh a ton and cost a lot but they are a lot easier on the eyes. My study efficieny goes up by fivefold when I have a paper version of an electronic coursebook. Also because you're not as easily distracted when you only take your textbook with you when you study, as opposed to checking out notifications and browsing the internet repeatedly

EReaders with E-ink. Problem fixed.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Bumping this.

The LA School District is seeking a refund from Apple/Pearson, and might possibly sue them. Apparently the iPads have been a giant clusterfuck.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-ipad-curriculum-refund-20150415-story.html

So Pearson is the problem, not Apple? What sort of relationship does Apple have with Pearson? Anyone know? I assume the iPads themselves are not the problem; rather the performance of the Person-made educational software.

Or did I misread?

Before they sue apple they should slap themselves.

Should have been beyond obvious that giving kids an iPad would end badly.

But the iPads aren't the problem. Read the article.

I'm no fan of Apple, but how is it their fault the LA school system is a bunch of knuckleheads exactly?

As I stated when this thread first came around, $200 android tablets would have served them just as well...

Not if the educational software developer struggles to deliver a quality product, which seems to be the issue here. The hardware choice doesn't matter if the software doesn't provide the quality and consistency requested.

 

[Hari Seldon]

It cracks me up too how these technology-ignorant higher-ups think getting these kids touch-based tablets will somehow prepare them for highschool and college where they'll need to type papers, use excel, powerpoint, type out math formulas in various programs, etc, etc. Like knowing how to tap on everything is going to give them an advantage in the future. I've had a lot of words about this topic in general but it is/was one of the stupidest fucking wastes of money for the education system in recent years.

Like someone said in the other thread, the best option would have been to use less expensive devices, create an OS or school-specific content delivery system/manager, use/create programs that are specific to each grade and subject with a unifying background system between school for comparison and admin sake. This way kids wouldn't be using them for porn (by either circumventing the parental controls or having parents who don't give a shit) and off-topic games (during class mind you), and maybe not getting robbed for them or stolen as much if they weren't iPads.

I had to deal with this crap first-hand and it was about as nonsensical and frustrating as I could handle. Good luck in high school Bobby, you are a master candy crush player and quick alt-tabber (to switch programs and pretend to your teacher your actually on-task). I'm sure high school and any studying/hw using m/kb/practical application will be easy for you /s.

Yeah this is obvious to anyone who was ever a STEM major. You want to prepare kids for pursuing STEM degrees? Hire all foreign teachers, have them face the chalk board and babble about math while refusing to erase anything and just scribbling everywhere, and only allow teacher interaction 1 hour a week. Tests will be curved with 30% being an A.

 

[Pooya]

If they wanted to replace textbooks, Kindle or any e-ink reader is better for reading anyway and at fraction of the cost. This was a huge waste of money. They should actually teach them use real computers and programming, it's a necessary skill to develop for anyone seeking education in any engineering field and should be learned early on, it's too late in University. You have to develop the mindset for it at a younger age.

 

[Poodlestrike]

iPads? Really? For schoolwork?

smh

 

[Hari Seldon]

So Pearson is the problem, not Apple? What sort of relationship does Apple have with Pearson? Anyone know? I assume the iPads themselves are not the problem; rather the performance of the Person-made educational software.

Or did I misread?

I think Pearson was hired by Apple to create the software. So the buck woudl stop with Apple but who knows once lawyers get involved.

 

[Hylian7]

LOL. Implying a Nook or "something" could offer the catalog of software and scale of support Apple and the iPad could offer. iPad was the wrong choice for what they need, but let's not be absurd.

Hell, if you even read the article you'd know why a Nook would be even worse. Surface (or a similar product) would be and is the best option here.

Yeah, definitely Surface, or some kind of hybrid tablet/laptop is what they would want for something like this. It needs to function as an actual computer, and not just a mobile OS tablet.

 

[Daedardus]

EReaders with E-ink. Problem fixed.

Pretty much, but those aren't tablets. Colours and responsiveness are still a problem though.

 

[RuGalz]

If they wanted to replace textbooks, Kindle or any e-ink reader is better for reading anyway and at fraction of the cost. This was a huge waste of money. They should actually teach them use real computers and programming, it's a necessary skill to develop for anyone seeking education in any engineering field and should be learned early on, it's too late in University. You have to develop the mindset for it at a younger age.

e-ink isn't so great when using the book as a reference book. dealing with slowness and constant screen flashing trying to search for things become more of a hassle than carrying a 4lb book quickly.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I think Pearson was hired by Apple to create the software. So the buck woudl stop with Apple but who knows once lawyers get involved.

Yea I caught as much. I guess I was wondering if they were a subsidiary of Apple but I don't believe they are. I wonder if Apple hiring Pearson means they really are legally responsible for Pearson's failure/success when it comes to delivering a quality product, or if Pearson is accountable to Apple in some way? Further, would a judge sanction a refund for the hardware itself...which is not to blame for Pearson's software deliverables failures? I can imagine them getting a refund for the $200/device they paid above the iPad price they negotiated with Apple to get the software AND iPads priced together...if they can prove demonstrable incompetence and an inability to meet goals and established timelines...or maybe a portion of that money...but a refund on the iPads themselves? Seems very unlikely.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Pretty much, but those aren't tablets. Colours and responsiveness are still a problem though.

If they're just for replacing textbooks, they don't need to be anything more. If they need to be more, then they should probably get them laptops.

e-ink isn't so great when using the book as a reference book. dealing with slowness and constant screen flashing trying to search for things become more of a hassle than carrying a 4lb book quickly.

They usually have a "find" option. Much easier than flipping/searching through a text book.

 

[AndyD]

I think Pearson was hired by Apple to create the software. So the buck woudl stop with Apple but who knows once lawyers get involved.

Yep. It seems Pearson is very closely tied with Apple. It's not as if LA bid on devices, then separately bid in software to be built on those devices, or the other way around. It was a package deal all along.

 

[AndyD]

e-ink isn't so great when using the book as a reference book. dealing with slowness and constant screen flashing trying to search for things become more of a hassle than carrying a 4lb book quickly.

I always wondered why don't we have a solid education focused e-ink device. Larger screen, beefier CPU for faster search capabilities and so forth. Not a $80 Kindle but not an $800 iPad either.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

What happened to note pads that cost 20 cents

..and how would you embezzle 20cents? 1 billion is much better.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

If they're just for replacing textbooks, they don't need to be anything more. If they need to be more, then they should probably get them laptops.

Surface tablets provide the answer to all the goals here.

1.) Laptop experience when combined with keyboard attachment

2.) Tablet/touch screen experience by default with the best note taking/student app ever made (OneNote).

3.) You'd probably feel less compelled to upgrade the hardware sooner, as Windows 10 is coming for free and the connectivity allows the devices to retain additional value for work purposes.

The Surface's problem is the lack of software configured for tablets, but considering they were going to need some company to develop a new piece of educational software anyway, it doesn't matter. Person or someone else could have made the same software as a Surface tablet app.

Mistakes were made.

Yep. It seems Pearson is very closely tied with Apple. It's not as if LA bid on devices, then separately bid in software to be built on those devices, or the other way around. It was a package deal all along.

They could have bid separately but didn't want to because they wanted to save some bucks.

AND they made the Pearson decision based on SAMPLES of what software would look like rather than any completed, functioning software. Buying a software contract without a meaningful demo to use and test? They mine as well have been funding a Kickstarter for their educational software as far as I'm concerned.

 

[RuGalz]

They usually have a "find" option. Much easier than flipping/searching through a text book.

I disagree. Typing on e-ink device, waiting for the screen to refresh for each letter, and then go through the results is infuriating. After reading through the book, book marking it or utilizing indexes can get me to where I need to go fairly quickly.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

I disagree. Typing on e-ink device, waiting for the screen to refresh for each letter, and then go through the results is infuriating. After reading through the book, book marking it or utilizing indexes can get me to where I need to go fairly quickly.

Either way you go (tablet or eReader or traditional textbook), there's going to be trade offs. My main point is that there are MUCH better and cost efficient solutions than an iPad.

 

[rezuth]

All schools in my municipality pretty much gives all the kids the latest iPad. They have free internet access, school books and so on on them.