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[Minotauro]

I have not seen the latency issue on my DLP set, but i have seen the image break for a split second. It was almost like a line where one half of the image did not match up to the other half, it has only happened while the scene was panning from left to right right to left.

This happens with my TV too. Like you said, it doesn't seem dependent on the source at all. I've seen it with TV, games, and DVDs. Either way, it doesn't really bother me much but I'm glad I'm not the only one.

 

[Culex]

I own an older 30" Samsung 1080i-only HDTV and have never noticed lag with any of my games (SNES, N64, Sega CD, Gamecube).

 

[RedBulborb]

I own a 46" Samsung DLP and I have never detected any lag.

 

[Vark]

My Mitsubshi RP CRT says you guys suck.

Seriously, why would ANYONE want to play an interlaced source on an HDTV to being with? Outside of watching TV, where the quality is always ass anyway. I just have an older CRT in another room where my 'legacy' consoles are hooked up.

 

[Arluss]

Can I kill you for your HDTV? Please? I won't even blame the games!

 

[crunker99]

I'm always amused by people who are somehow surprised that the 50" POS they got for half the price of a comparable major brand set isn't as good. We'll probably see a lot of complaints about the cheapo Chinese LCD sets flooding the market right now as well.

Amen to this.. you get what you pay for people.. if you buy crap dont complain when theres lag.. sure its more affordable but theres a reason its less money for the money you spend on a crap LCD you can get a real nice CRT

 

[Tain]

My parent's Toshiba HDTV... All seemed well until I played beatmania IIDX on it. There's definitely a huge timing difference, for the game's standards.

Seriously, why would ANYONE want to play an interlaced source on an HDTV to being with?

Room? Convenience?

 

[Yusaku]

CRT Direct View HDTV here, no lag.

 

[Chittagong]

The scaler HW of my Hitachi 42PMA500e is good, I don't notice any disturbing lag with the set. Earlier I tried routing my PS2 via S-Video to my Panasonic DMR85 DVD/HDD that outputs component video, and that created a bad lag that made games impossible.

 

[Mr. Lemming]

My 27 inch Samsung CRT HDTV doesn't seem to have lag with interlaced sources. I'm playing through Shadow Hearts: Covenant right now ( connected with S-Video ) so I think I would notice it

 

[mrmyth]

Playing on 110" projected 720p LCD image (Sanyo Z3) - no lag. Even old TGrafx 16/ 3D0 games are fine.

 

[shpankey]

Actually, this info is not quite right. In another thread long time ago, we figured out the lag in Samsung sets are only present when you plug in the console via interlaced cables. There's absolutely no lag when you play games on Sammy sets via progressive cables.

Wait... so you're saying that component cables somehow fix this problem? If so, I beg to differ. I play at a friends house all the time, he has a new Samsung DLP HDTV and we have it hooked up with component cables, running in 480p, and the lag is very VERY annoying. It totally fucks us up on field goals and punt kicks in Madden/NCAA (also in MVP baseball, while pitching).

Alternatively, at my house, I have a Sony 36" Direct View HDTV and have absolutely no lag at all. So, it certainly doesn't apply to all HDTV's.

 

[TranceVibrator]

My Mitsubshi RP CRT says you guys suck.

Seriously, why would ANYONE want to play an interlaced source on an HDTV to being with? Outside of watching TV, where the quality is always ass anyway. I just have an older CRT in another room where my 'legacy' consoles are hooked up.

erm wtf, whats wrong with playing interlaced games on an HDTV? Shit looks a hell of a lot better on my LCD TV than it does on my old 4:3 interlaced Sony Wega.

 

[Shogmaster]

Wait... so you're saying that component cables somehow fix this problem? If so, I beg to differ. I play at a friends house all the time, he has a new Samsung DLP HDTV and we have it hooked up with component cables, running in 480p, and the lag is very VERY annoying. It totally fucks us up on field goals and punt kicks in Madden/NCAA (also in MVP baseball, while pitching).

Obviously, component cables by themselves does not have the ability to distinguish between interlaced and progressive signals. They just transmit the signal as they are fed them.

It's the consoles and their cable set up that will determine whether the signal going to the TV is either interlaced or progressive. It does not matter if you plug in the console via component to one of the Samsung's progressive capable component inputs. Keep in mind that they accept interlaced signals as well. If the game in question, or the output set up on the console in question is not sending out progressive signal, then the Samsung set's de-interlacer/line doubler will kick in.

We use nothing but progressive output set up for the two consoles with the Sammy DLP set. GC is an original launch version and we bought the progressive cable out set up for it (a bitch to find). And the XBox obviously is using the hi-def kit. We've never seen delay in any games because of this.

 

[shpankey]

Obviously, component cables by themselves does not have the ability to distinguish between interlaced and progressive signals. They just transmit the signal as they are fed them.

It's the consoles and their cable set up that will determine whether the signal going to the TV is either interlaced or progressive. It does not matter if you plug in the console via component to one of the Samsung's progressive capable component inputs. Keep in mind that they accept interlaced signals as well. If the game in question, or the output set up on the console in question is not sending out progressive signal, then the Samsung set's de-interlacer/line doubler will kick in.

You can trust me when I say, it is in progressive scan, I assure you (and yes of course we set it in the Xbox Dashboard, before you ask); and yes, Madden and NCAA are progressive games.

I'm sorry, your theory about the lag coming from being interlaced is not correct, at least in our case, which makes me suspect of it being true in any case.

 

[RoH]

This happens with my TV too. Like you said, it doesn't seem dependent on the source at all. I've seen it with TV, games, and DVDs. Either way, it doesn't really bother me much but I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Now if we could only find out why this happens

 

[BastardSamurai]

You can trust me when I say, it is in progressive scan, I assure you (and yes of course we set it in the Xbox Dashboard, before you ask); and yes, Madden and NCAA are progressive games.

I'm sorry, your theory about the lag coming from being interlaced is not correct, at least in our case, which makes me suspect of it being true in any case.

I think it might be your (when I say "your", I mean the TV you're citing) TV's logic board (or whatever the hell the signal processing guts are, I've read it referred to as such) in particular. Because I have a Sammy, and it *only lags* on 480i content (anything that's progressive, then it's all good, even golf games with golf meters and sports shinola). Even the numerous AVS forum threads about the lag point to interlaced content as the time when lag is experienced. In your case, if you're getting lag even on progressive content, then I would suspect that something is wrong with your particular board. I think the 480i=lag theory is solid simply because it's like that in my personal experience, and it's been corroborated by both the Internetz and people I know who own Sammies also. Your case of lag in progressive-scan is very rare, and I think I read that someone had something like that cleared up by having the logic board replaced (can't recall the exact thread). No offense, but I think a faulty board that makes an already less-than-stellar situation even worst is a more likely scenario than everyone else except you being wrong about the subject.

 

[shpankey]

Perhaps... I cannot say. I can only testify to this one TV. If you have a lot of other data to make those conclusions, then you would know better than I. I am only reporting about this TV and what we have experienced.

P.S. Since you mentioned shinola... shit vs. shinola :lol

 

[Supasso]

I have not seen the latency issue on my DLP set, but i have seen the image break for a split second. It was almost like a line where one half of the image did not match up to the other half, it has only happened while the scene was panning from left to right right to left.

This is another dirty secret of fixed-refresh rate displays. I learned this the hard way. My LCD monitor does this. It's because each non-CRT monitor has one native refresh rate, which won't necessary sync to the video signal perfectly.

Those native refresh rates can be anywhere from 59.xx to 60.xx hz depend on each display, while the video signal is fixed at 59.99 hz. The 59.99 hz signal has to be converted to the display-native refresh rate, and the refresh rate coversion causes the picture tearing once in a while.

CRT display won't have this problem because the display can sync itself to any video signals, if it's within its range.

Most people won't notice this though, which I'm not surprised. Most people does not know what v-sync does, and this looks just like the lack of v-sync, but it's caused by display/signal out-of-sync instead of back/front frame buffer out-of sync.

 

[isamu]

Yes, I should have mentioned that the quality of the internal scaler is important, because a good implementation minimizes the latency. The fact that some scalers are so bad as to add so much latency into the already latency-filled world of home audio/video is really sad.

I do find it odd that these issues only seem to appear in video games as well, and apparently only with delay associated with controller input. If the latency in a particular scaler were so bad I'd assume you'd also have syncing issues between the picture and audio as well, but you rarely here anyone say anything about this in reference to the videogame lag, and this should also manifest itself in any other source as well, I'm just not sure why you don't here complaints about this for other video sources (DVD players) - and why it's necessary for some TV's to supply a "game mode" that disables the scaler completely.

EDIT: Just noticed the quote in the original post does mention the sound delay. I still find it odd that the scalers only seem to exhibit this behavior with videogame sources though.

What about DLP front projectors?

 

[RoH]

This is another dirty secret of fixed-refresh rate displays. I learned this the hard way. My LCD monitor does this. It's because each non-CRT monitor has one native refresh rate, which won't necessary sync to the video signal perfectly.

Those native refresh rates can be anywhere from 59.xx to 60.xx hz depend on each display, while the video signal is fixed at 59.99 hz. The 59.99 hz signal has to be converted to the display-native refresh rate, and the refresh rate coversion causes the picture tearing once in a while.

CRT display won't have this problem because the display can sync itself to any video signals, if it's within its range.

Most people won't notice this though, which I'm not surprised. Most people does not know what v-sync does, and this looks just like the lack of v-sync, but it's caused by display/signal out-of-sync instead of back/front frame buffer out-of sync.

Thank you very much.

 

[Shogmaster]

Perhaps... I cannot say. I can only testify to this one TV. If you have a lot of other data to make those conclusions, then you would know better than I. I am only reporting about this TV and what we have experienced.

Hey shpankey. Since it's your friend's set up, have you actually made sure with your own eyes that he is using Hi-Def kit (the only way to get progressive output) with his XBox? He might be using non-progressive component kit instead.

Just something you might want to check for yourself and not just take your friend's word for it.

 

[_PsiFire_]

I have a 53" Hitachi HDTV (3.5 years old - only does 480i/480p/1080i) no latency issues whatsoever.

 

[lethial]

I have a HDTV and there is zero latency issues using the various resolutions my tv offers.

 

[shpankey]

Hey shpankey. Since it's your friend's set up, have you actually made sure with your own eyes that he is using Hi-Def kit (the only way to get progressive output) with his XBox? He might be using non-progressive component kit instead.

Just something you might want to check for yourself and not just take your friend's word for it.

Yeah, I actually hooked it all up for him (he's not very technical and knows little about it).

I'll tell him about having a bad circuit board like you guys mentioned. Maybe we can get them to come replace his, which would be great for me cause everytime I go over there I can't kick any field goals or punts. :lol