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Latin American leaders call for end to "War on Drugs"

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LuchaShaq

Banned
To all the pro-legalizing folks, would you still be fine with employers doing drug tests even if the drugs are legal?

.

I don't do/wouldn't start but that said I would have an issue with said tests UNLESS it's something that could affect the job.

Actively being high/drunk while driving/operating heavy machinery? Fuck harsher penalties are already needed for that even with legal drugs.

Pissing hot because some dude likes to smoke weed off the clock? Waste of everyone's time and money.
 
"One of the few positive outcomes of the war on drugs has been a marked decrease in violent crime in U.S. cities."



Bullshit.
are people likely to commit violent crimes being jailed in large numbers for drug possessions?
what would account for the decrease in violent crime, assuming that statement isnt relying on fudged data.
 
Personally i wouldnt agree with employers drug testing staff even when drugs are illegal

And anyone that thinks drugs being illegal puts people off trying them has a screw loose, if anything the illegality makes them more appealing

I think he's implying that the ease of access, if it were legal, would compel more people to try meth or cocaine. Dont buy that though.
 
Same reason that if you try to take a case of steaks from a pack wild dogs, they will go apeshit. The cartels aren't going to turn in their guns and say "we had a good run" and go quietly into the night. They will rage, rage, with the dying of the light.

the cartels will not go down without a violent and bloody fight, that's for sure. It shouldnt deter policy changes though, the cartels are violent now, they will be violent tomorrow and they will always be violent until their source of financing is undercut.
 
Death penalty for selling drugs and increased jail punishment for using them.

invest in troops that travel to these countries and take all those druglords out and burn their fields. keep doing it until there are no idiots left to take over the drug industry

That will fucking teach them.
 
Death penalty for selling drugs and increased jail punishment for using them.

invest in troops that travel to these countries and take all those druglords out and burn their fields. keep doing it until there are no idiots left to take over the drug industry

That will fucking teach them.

ummm...You didnt think this through.
 

smurfx

get some go again
Same reason that if you try to take a case of steaks from a pack wild dogs, they will go apeshit. The cartels aren't going to turn in their guns and say "we had a good run" and go quietly into the night. They will rage, rage, with the dying of the light.
it would be tough but in the end they wouldn't have an endless supply of money to keep their soldiers funded and they would walk away. nobody is going to work for a cartel if there is no money in it for them. if mexico keeps up its efforts to go after organized crime they would be able to finally start killing them off even if they moved on to other less profitable crime.
 

alterno69

Banned
Mexico would never do it before the US, if the US ever does it i expect Mexico to follow closely after if not at the same time.
 
Death penalty for selling drugs and increased jail punishment for using them.

invest in troops that travel to these countries and take all those druglords out and burn their fields. keep doing it until there are no idiots left to take over the drug industry

That will fucking teach them.

I hope you're serious. I just really hope that there exists someone so naive that they think something like that would work. You cheered for Darth Vader and the emperor in the Star Wars movies, didn't you?
 
I think he's implying that the ease of access, if it were legal, would compel more people to try meth or cocaine. Dont buy that though.

Seeing as there's no ease of access problems with drugs currently anyway of course its bullshit lol, yes there probably are some people (not very many i'd wager) that are put off by drugs being illegal but far more people are probably attracted by the illegality
 

slit

Member
Death penalty for selling drugs and increased jail punishment for using them.

invest in troops that travel to these countries and take all those druglords out and burn their fields. keep doing it until there are no idiots left to take over the drug industry

That will fucking teach them.

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Just another instance where big business is influencing politics. The cartels are just like any other business in the sense that they are using their money and power to put pressure on their governments to change laws that are harmful to their bottom line. I'm fairly certain that the only reason that drugs haven't become legal in the US is because the pharmaceutics companies can out spend the cartels.
 
Oscapella believes America's dogged opposition to legalization is largely the result of an entrenched industry connected with prohibition.

"There are many interests within society, many of them powerful interests, that profit from prohibition," says Oscapella, which includes the private prison industry and public and private police forces.

Oscapella cites a recent pitch by the Corrections Corporation of America, the largest operator of prisons in the U.S. The company told 48 U.S. states that it would buy their existing prisons, provided the states could guarantee 90 per cent occupancy.

Although it may not be as brazenly capitalistic, Oscapella says a similar mindset exists in Canada.
Even though this is obviously the case and old news, it never fucking ceases to shock me with how disgusting this sort of attitude is and how long it has been, not just tolerated, but promoted as a good thing for its creation of jobs. Nothing like growing an industry out of encouraging the enslavement of people hit with a drug code and prison terms designed to maximize profits by maintaining minimum headcount. There is zero logic in the drug war outside of serving the few and punishing the many, so it only makes sense that it continue despite all evidence damning it and strong opposition from nations who have been severely negatively impacted by the policy in place, given the baldly mercenary attitude referenced above. I mean, US drug policy is essentially an attack on the national security of almost any other nation touched by its reach.
 
Just another instance where big business is influencing politics. The cartels are just like any other business in the sense that they are using their money and power to put pressure on their governments to change laws that are harmful to their bottom line. I'm fairly certain that the only reason that drugs haven't become legal in the US is because the pharmaceutics companies can out spend the cartels.

When drugs do finally become legal (might take a few decades but it'll happen one day) i would imagine it'd be the pharmecutical companies making them
 
Same reason that if you try to take a case of steaks from a pack wild dogs, they will go apeshit. The cartels aren't going to turn in their guns and say "we had a good run" and go quietly into the night. They will rage, rage, with the dying of the light.
I think the solution to ending the war on drugs will ultimately involve negotiations with and the legitimizing of the cartels. Other multinationals are going to want to get in on the game once legalization happens, but the only way to resolve this is going to be to bring all of the interested parties to the table.

Except the CCA. Fuck them.
 
Even though this is obviously the case and old news, it never fucking ceases to shock me with how disgusting this sort of attitude is and how long it has been, not just tolerated, but promoted as a good thing for its creation of jobs. Nothing like growing an industry out of encouraging the enslavement of people hit with a drug code and prison terms designed to maximize profits by maintaining minimum headcount. There is zero logic in the drug war outside of serving the few and punishing the many, so it only makes sense that it continue despite all evidence damning it and strong opposition from nations who have been severely negatively impacted by the policy in place, given the baldly mercenary attitude referenced above. I mean, US drug policy is essentially an attack on the national security of almost any other nation touched by its reach.

great post. The War on Drugs is also doing no favours to US national security, as Mexico is the third highest national security priority for the USG, below Iran and Pakistan, yet above Iraq and Afghanistan. You have to wonder what the US will do if Mexico gets even more violent and unstable than it already is.
 

J-Rzez

Member
To all the pro-legalizing folks, would you still be fine with employers doing drug tests even if the drugs are legal?

I am not sure what to do, I have seen crack and meth destroy people's lives. I have the feeling that it being illegal has stopped many people from even trying it. So would removing that hurdle make that bad problem that much worse? So you have even more crackheads breaking into homes, robbing people to get their next high? Just a thought.

Naw, everyone will afford it when legalized and taxed. Can't wait to go into Walmart for some Sam's Choice Merry-juana. In all actuality, it'll make things far-far worse of course. You have enough drugheads running around as is, make it legal and you'll have more people using the stuff and getting behind the wheel slaughtering more innocent people. I mean, look how bad it is with drinking and driving. And others can't handle texting while driving. Let alone those high out of their minds, and possibly drinking at the same time.

Alcohol is bad enough as is, and can't be removed for obvious reasons. But that doesn't mean it would be cool to introduce another form of endangerment to society.

And too bad for the other nations. We have to fight it to keep our society clean as possible, if they're not stepping up to the plate to deal with it then they're part of the problem, especially considering how they're more than likely on the take anyways. If they can't handle it, then how about we make some people happy and get our boys out of the sand and send them down there to clean house instead since it'll "have a direct impact on our nation" instead of what they're doing now.
 
Naw, everyone will afford it when legalized and taxed. Can't wait to go into Walmart for some Sam's Choice Merry-juana. In all actuality, it'll make things far-far worse of course. You have enough drugheads running around as is, make it legal and you'll have more people using the stuff and getting behind the wheel slaughtering more innocent people. I mean, look how bad it is with drinking and driving. And others can't handle texting while driving. Let alone those high out of their minds, and possibly drinking at the same time.

Alcohol is bad enough as is, and can't be removed for obvious reasons. But that doesn't mean it would be cool to introduce another form of endangerment to society.
What are these obvious reasons? And if you realize that it's clearly obvious that prohibition doesn't work, how is the rest of your post so manifestly retarded?
 
I hope you're serious. I just really hope that there exists someone so naive that they think something like that would work. You cheered for Darth Vader and the emperor in the Star Wars movies, didn't you?

well it will be very hard to stop drugs otherwise, stupid people will continue to do drugs unless there is a really big punishment if they get arrested. Educating educating people at an early age to not do drugs wont help either as there will still be children and young that didnt get an education due to poverty.

imagine if you knew that if I buy this pill and get arrested I will spend life in prison for it, you would probably never buy it.

A junkie would, but you would probably get less new users to try these drugs.

I was a Han Solo fan myself, however I loved Darth vader as well.
 
When drugs do finally become legal (might take a few decades but it'll happen one day) i would imagine it'd be the pharmecutical companies making them

Drugs will never be legal. Definitely not within our life time. Marijuana is the only thing that has a chance of becoming legal in a few decades, and even that is not guaranteed.
 
Naw, everyone will afford it when legalized and taxed. Can't wait to go into Walmart for some Sam's Choice Merry-juana. In all actuality, it'll make things far-far worse of course. You have enough drugheads running around as is, make it legal and you'll have more people using the stuff and getting behind the wheel slaughtering more innocent people. I mean, look how bad it is with drinking and driving. And others can't handle texting while driving. Let alone those high out of their minds, and possibly drinking at the same time.

Alcohol is bad enough as is, and can't be removed for obvious reasons. But that doesn't mean it would be cool to introduce another form of endangerment to society.

And too bad for the other nations. We have to fight it to keep our society clean as possible, if they're not stepping up to the plate to deal with it then they're part of the problem, especially considering how they're more than likely on the take anyways. If they can't handle it, then how about we make some people happy and get our boys out of the sand and send them down there to clean house instead since it'll "have a direct impact on our nation" instead of what they're doing now.
didnt you read the original post? Your strategy of militarization, harsh sentencing, and brute force tactics has been an abysmal failure and has had zero impact on the demand for recreational drugs. Your plan sounds like a fantastic way to turn Mexico and oither latin american countries into failed states. Maybe you dont give a damn about that, but you should, cause it would hurt the US economy and create a humanitarian disaster.
 
Drugs will never be legal. Definitely not within our life time. Marijuana is the only thing that has a chance of becoming legal in a few decades, and even that is not guaranteed.

Drugs will be legalised by at least one major country within 20 or 30 years i'd then expect a domino effect until they're legal in all major countries, america will probably be the last
 
let me ask you somthing, would you let your 15 year old daughter do drugs?

Using drugs is stupid and not legal and it does nothing to make our society any better.
I don't know why people ask this question as if it's some sort of defeater. I would discourage my teenage daughter from doing drugs, but only for developmental reasons. Later in life? Have at it.

Using drugs is fun for some people; its legality is the point at issue. I presume you mean to say immoral, but you've done absolutely nothing to demonstrate that, and I'm not convinced that you are capable of such. And as to the claim that it's done nothing to improve society: many of history's most important contributors to science and culture have used some kind of drug or another.

In summary: you have no fucking idea what you're on about.
 

Alebrije

Member
Lol, so you're calling drug users stupid?

So how do you call them : Geniuses , smart people?

If someone have intelligence and a little of common sense wont try drugs.

The problem in U.S. society is that a lot of people see drugs like if they were candies and think they can control the use, they do not look themselves as adicts.. just as a occasional users and that is bullshit..
 
So how do you call them : Geniuses , smart people?

If someone have intelligence and a little of common sense wont try drugs.

The problem in U.S. society is that a lot of people see drugs like if they were candies and think they can control the use, they do not look themselves as adicts.. just as a occasional users and that is bullshit..

I don't label someone's intelligence by what their recreational activities are. I have the common sense not to do that. As for the rest of your post, it isn't any less ignorant.
 
I don't know why people ask this question as if it's some sort of defeater. I wouldn't discourage my teenage daughter from doing drugs, but only for developmental reasons. Later in life? Have at it.

Using drugs is fun for some people; its legality is the point at issue. I presume you mean to say immoral, but you've done absolutely nothing to demonstrate that, and I'm not convinced that you are capable of such. And as to the claim that it's done nothing to improve society: many of history's most important contributors to science and culture have used some kind of drug or another.

In summary: you have no fucking idea what you're on about.

I don't think you'd want your 25 year old daughter doing heroin. Not all drugs are the same. Let's get real here. There's a middle ground.
 

Onemic

Member
let me ask you somthing, would you let your 15 year old daughter do drugs?

Using drugs is stupid and not legal and it does nothing to make our society any better.

We should make alcohol illegal as well! That'll teach em!

You do know with your plan you're just letting the cartels continue to do their thing and not hurt them?
 
I don't think you'd want your 25 year old daughter doing heroin. Not all drugs are the same. Let's get real here. There's a middle ground.

That depends. Yes, many drugs are the same. Heroin is an opiod, like many other opiods. It has similar effects and isn't in any way more damaging. The difference is, when injected, it does give a more intense rush. In all honesty, I'd rather have a close one be addicted to heroin if it were legal than to alcohol. It really is the lesser of two evils. Now if you had said meth, that would be a different story. Even then, meth can be used responsibly. Example: Meth is prescribed under the name Desoxyn to patients with ADHD. Of course, this is done in small doses and when many people think of meth, they think of tweakers smoking tons of that crystal shit.
 
I don't know why people ask this question as if it's some sort of defeater. I wouldn't discourage my teenage daughter from doing drugs, but only for developmental reasons. Later in life? Have at it.

Using drugs is fun for some people; its legality is the point at issue. I presume you mean to say immoral, but you've done absolutely nothing to demonstrate that, and I'm not convinced that you are capable of such. And as to the claim that it's done nothing to improve society: many of history's most important contributors to science and culture have used some kind of drug or another.

In summary: you have no fucking idea what you're on about.

well I got the response I was expecting to get when asking this question.
well I hope your daughter does not end up a addict.
 
So how do you call them : Geniuses , smart people?

If someone have intelligence and a little of common sense wont try drugs.

The problem in U.S. society is that a lot of people see drugs like if they were candies and think they can control the use, they do not look themselves as adicts.. just as a occasional users and that is bullshit..
Consult the end of my previous post, that goes double for you.

I don't think you'd want your 25 year old daughter doing heroin. Not all drugs are the same. Let's get real here. There's a middle ground.
I definitely committed myself to the position that all drugs are equal. Of course I wouldn't want my daughter to do heroin. I don't think it needs to be illegal for that objective to be realized.
 
well I got the response I was expecting to get when asking this question.
well I hope your daughter does not end up a addict.
There's a typo in my post, now corrected: I would discourage a teenager from using drugs.

I appreciate your well-wishes towards my fictive children. Let me return the gesture by hoping that your children will not be as susceptible to risibly bad argument as you are.
 

Alebrije

Member
Consult the end of my previous post, that goes double for you.

I definitely committed myself to the position that all drugs are equal. Of course I wouldn't want my daughter to do heroin. I don't think it needs to be illegal for that objective to be realized.


So you say drugs are good or at least not dangerous if you use them at some levels so everyone could use them in that way. The problem is that so little people can control that and a lot of people ends as adicts and that behavior is common in the U.S.

Be polite end stop calling ignorant the people just because someone do not share your point of view.
 

I_D

Member
So how do you call them : Geniuses , smart people?

If someone have intelligence and a little of common sense wont try drugs.

What's the difference between legal drugs and illegal drugs, aside from political favor?
Or in other words, could you explain how marijuana is worse than Adderall?
Did you know what Aspirin will kill you faster than weed? Did you now that it'll kill you faster than LSD or shrooms?




If anything, the drug war makes it EASIER to get a hold of drugs, since the sellers have no real rules.
Back in high school weed, cocaine/crack, meth, pills, lsd, and shrooms were all very easy to find. They passed back and forth pretty much every day. Anecdotal experiences suggest, to me, that around half of the student population frequently used drugs (usually weed, but not exclusively).
Those same people found it MUCH more difficult to get a hold of alcohol because it's legal and underage kids can't really find it in the streets without help from an adult.
Even in college, bud is easier to find than alcohol. Alcohol requires a long walk to your car and a trip to the store and back which takes around 20 minutes. Bud requires a short stroll to basically any hall in any dorm, which takes less than 5 minutes.

However, if a government-protected company (probably pharmacies or cigarette companies) was able to produce/grow their own drugs and sell them in id-requiring stores, drugs would be just as hard to find as alcohol. In addition, the black market sales would crumble because mass-production always destroys tiny businesses. Just like today, the black market would have to resort to illegal truck seizures to make sales (like with cigarettes), which is a problem not even related to drug legality.
 

Zaptruder

Banned
To all the pro-legalizing folks, would you still be fine with employers doing drug tests even if the drugs are legal?

I am not sure what to do, I have seen crack and meth destroy people's lives. I have the feeling that it being illegal has stopped many people from even trying it. So would removing that hurdle make that bad problem that much worse? So you have even more crackheads breaking into homes, robbing people to get their next high? Just a thought.

Does crack and meth proliferate because of its desirable specific effects, or because it is the cheapest class of drugs with a certain set of characteristics?
 
So you say drugs are good or at least not dangerous if you use them at some levels so everyone could use them in that way. The problem is that so little people can control that and a lot of people ends as adicts and that behavior is common in the U.S.

Be polite end stop calling ignorant the people just because someone do not share your point of view.
Why should I be polite to people who won't even do me the courtesy of saying things that are factual? When you say that so few of the people who use drugs are able to control themselves, are you saying that most people who consume alcohol are alcoholics? Bullshit.

I'm not calling you ignorant because we disagree. I'm calling you ignorant because you are making shit up.
 

Chichikov

Member
I don't think you'd want your 25 year old daughter doing heroin. Not all drugs are the same. Let's get real here. There's a middle ground.
I don't think that you'd like your 25 years old daughter, who is sadly doing Heroin, to be sent to jail for years.
There's a lot of thing I don't want me theoretical daughter to do (stay of the pole Cinnamon! daddy loves you!), I just don't think the best way to stir her away from those perils is to ask the government to incarcerate her.

People act like that zero tolerance war on drugs bullshit is working for anyone but the prison industry and the DEA.
 
It will change the way you look at the world. I can see you becoming a good Republican.
Maybe if you mean Republican in the 1950s sense of the word, minus the racism. I have some libertarian tendencies, but the current Republican party is so wholly committed to being contra-factual that I can't ever see myself voting for one without first receiving the Phineas Gage treatment.
 
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