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[LowEndTorque]

J.D. Is a really versatile degree and there are lots of different jobs you can get with a law degree.

That said, law school ain't cheap and the insane amount of debt you graduate with kinda forces you into a practice/firm environment.

My wife is a corporate lawyer. She loves what she does and makes really good money but works insanely hard. She wants to get out of practice and do something else but her insanely ridiculous debt is forcing her stay with the firm. She's currently on maternity leave and we are both dreading her going back to work with the baby here and her crazy hours.

 

[Byakuya769]

congrats to everyone getting grades back...still another week for me.

How's the summer job hunt going for everyone? have you applied yet, if not have you started looking?

Don't get my grades until two more weeks. I hate applying to so many jobs when I have no clue what my grades will really allow me to have a shot at.

Ah well. Boohoo, sad story. Back to applications.

 

[Bboy AJ]

J.D. Is a really versatile degree and there are lots of different jobs you can get with a law degree.

Never understood this sentiment.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Never understood this sentiment.

It's true. I know I have. I think KingGhondo mentioned having a job via a JD that wasn't strictly as a lawyer.

 

[Bboy AJ]

It's true. I know I have. I think KingGhondo mentioned having a job via a JD that wasn't strictly as a lawyer.

Oh, I know you can get other jobs with a JD other than lawyering. But why would you get a JD in the first place? You could have very likely have gotten those jobs through cheaper, more effective means.

 

[Seraphinianus]

Oh, I know you can get other jobs with a JD other than lawyering. But why would you get a JD in the first place? You could have very likely have gotten those jobs through cheaper, more effective means.

Goes something like this:

--I'm gonna be a lawyer!
--Oh wait, no I'm not.
--Shit, would else should I do...
--Well, at the very least, it'll show them I can do hard work.

From what I've found, there isn't a whole lot that it is directly applicable to (outside of lawyering) besides the law librarian angle I'm working on, but it looks nice on an app, particularly if you have something else to combine it with like accounting, marketing, business degree, etc. It's a good separator from other apps. But yeah, probably not worth $100k for a nice line on the resume, but it's certainly a perk.

If you're leaving law school naked without an idea what to do, it's not going to magically get head hunters on you or anything. Gotta have some direction, put work into it, and then bust out "hey, I also completed law school, which was hard and took dedication, plus knowledge of the law comes in handy all the time."

 

[genjiZERO]

so with a sad sigh...

So I'm a 3L in a top 50 school. I've got pretty shit grades my average is a 78 (in a school where the average is a 82). it's not because of laziness because all I do all day is study. It's also not because of a lack of intelligence because I have a thesis track MS in biology where I had a 4.0. Anyway, I'm doing terribly law school. I think it's because I think like a scientist and not a lawyer, but there isn't really anything I can do about this. I came to law school because I thought I could go into patent law and get a job, and (at the time) this was preferable to doing 5 years on a PhD and 2 to 4 more after that doing a post-doc. But my question is: can I even get a job in this field? I'm easily in the lower 25% of the class. I'm trying to figure it out because I don't want to spend the next two years being unemployed or having to go into some other legal field (which I have no interest in). So if I have to go get a PhD I'd rather start working on it now...

tl;dr - I have crap grades at a top 50 school. Can I get a job in patent law?

 

[Bboy AJ]

Patent law is less competitive than other legal fields. If you're a 3L, you should have taken the patent bar already and should be in the thick of getting an IP job. Put as much effort into your job search as you are into class.

 

[mingus]

tl;dr - I have crap grades at a top 50 school. Can I get a job in patent law?

We are both in the same sinking boat. 2L STEM major but without your fancy MS. The way my job search has gone is: I send my resume and they express interest; I send my transcript after they request it and they end up having no more available positions. At this point I'm waiting on my new (hopefully better) grades to come in and studying up to take the patent bar either end of this month or next month. With the two in tow it shouldn't be as bad...right?

 

[Pilgor]

So first round of grades are in. Still waiting on Civil Procedure, really hoping for an A in that.

A in Contracts
A- in Legal Writing
B- in Torts.

Really unhappy about the Torts. Nothing to do but move on, it's just really bringing me down.

 

[YoungHav]

Need some resume advice. The last job I left on good terms was back in April. Since then I got laid off from another firm, should I put the latter on my resume? Or am I better off leaving my last legal employment with that 9 month gap?

 

[mre]

Need some resume advice. The last job I left on good terms was back in April. Since then I got laid off from another firm, should I put the latter on my resume? Or am I better off leaving my last legal employment with that 9 month gap?

How bad are we talking about here?

 

[AndyD]

As mre said, what was the reason for the layoff? If its reasonable, I would put it on your resume. 9 months is a long gap and I would not leave a 9 month gap on there unless I had a very very good reason to do so.

 

[Seraphinianus]

C in evidence! Not bad for a class I went to 4 times, didn't study or read for, then logic'd my way through the multiple choice test with some shitty downloaded outline I could use because it was open book.

<3 the curve sometimes

 

[Bboy AJ]

C in evidence! Not bad for a class I went to 4 times, didn't study or read for, then logic'd my way through the multiple choice test with some shitty downloaded outline I could use because it was open book.

<3 the curve sometimes

I went to zero evidence classes and did pretty well. That is a subject one can easily learn on his or her own study. It's also very enjoyable to me, too. Might be why I had no problem self motivating for it, heh.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

So first round of grades are in. Still waiting on Civil Procedure, really hoping for an A in that.

A in Contracts
A- in Legal Writing
B- in Torts.

Really unhappy about the Torts. Nothing to do but move on, it's just really bringing me down.

Torts was one of those funny classes where I was constantly second guessing myself. So many options. I got a B in it too.

 

[alstein]

Just curious- how does a GI Bill do in covering law school? (considering both public and private options)

This is more of a potential down-the-road if I lose my job option.

 

[Bboy AJ]

Just curious- how does a GI Bill do in covering law school? (considering both public and private options)

This is more of a potential down-the-road if I lose my job option.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=53547

 

[Seraphinianus]

I went to zero evidence classes and did pretty well. That is a subject one can easily learn on his or her own study. It's also very enjoyable to me, too. Might be why I had no problem self motivating for it, heh.

Agreed. I tell people this for all the statutory classes...I feel it's underrated law school tip-- if it's a statute-based class, sit back, relax, and learn the black letter law. Just get some tips about the prof's final and teaching style, then cram it all in a few weeks before the final.

 

[Seraphinianus]

Gonna step it up this semester for the home stretch. 18 credits to go, gonna finish my coursework this summer. Went overboard with smoking weed and having fun last semester, so my grades are C's for harder classes, A's for easier ones.

Hope my grad schools don't weigh my law school grades too heavily...I'd prefer they scrutinize them so they can see I made a big turnaround after 1L. My pitch for the librarian program will be really impressive to them, so I'll probably go in for interviews and really make sure they read my application essay. I'm a goof off law student, but for the first time in my life with any career path, I feel librarianship (and law librarianship incidentally) is really a good fit for me.

 

[YoungHav]

How bad are we talking about here?

They said I was too slow in completing assignments.

 

[Hartt951]

Still working on my undergrad degree and considering law school. I have a two quick questions for the peanut gallery:

1. Do LSAT scores expire? If I do go to law school, it will not be immediately after I get my bachelors and I am curious if I should take the LSAT now while in college or if I'll have to wait until down the road when I'm ready to go to Law School to take it.

2. I'm assuming I know the answer to this one, but it is possible to take time off and then still do well in law school because law school isn't material you're supposed to already know, right? You just need to be able to do loads of reading and case analysis, correct?

Thank you.

 

[Bboy AJ]

Still working on my undergrad degree and considering law school. I have a two quick questions for the peanut gallery:

1. Do LSAT scores expire? If I do go to law school, it will not be immediately after I get my bachelors and I am curious if I should take the LSAT now while in college or if I'll have to wait until down the road when I'm ready to go to Law School to take it.

2. I'm assuming I know the answer to this one, but it is possible to take time off and then still do well in law school because law school isn't material you're supposed to already know, right? You just need to be able to do loads of reading and case analysis, correct?

Thank you.

1. I think it's 3 years. You can find that on the LSAT website somewhere.

2. Yes.

 

[Seraphinianus]

Still working on my undergrad degree and considering law school. I have a two quick questions for the peanut gallery:

1. Do LSAT scores expire? If I do go to law school, it will not be immediately after I get my bachelors and I am curious if I should take the LSAT now while in college or if I'll have to wait until down the road when I'm ready to go to Law School to take it.

2. I'm assuming I know the answer to this one, but it is possible to take time off and then still do well in law school because law school isn't material you're supposed to already know, right? You just need to be able to do loads of reading and case analysis, correct?

Thank you.

1. they do expire and you should think about taking it later when you're older, smarter, and maybe have more free time to focus on studying. I remember it being very hectic fitting in LSAT studying with my other school work and undergrad social life. At the core, it's just logic, so it is best learned without many distractions.

2. Yes, for sure. It's a different beast from undergrad completely. They want you to go in blank and will tell you to forget what you know during 1L orientation. There are people from all stages of life there, just like undergrad and everyone is in the same sinking ship boat as everyone else.

 

[Hartt951]

Woah, thank you for the quick responses.

 

[PBY]

Give me hope law gaf- pulled a straight b in civ pro... Kinda thinking that might be my best grade. Honestly, I didn't have high expectations, but was hoping for a b+.

 

[Pollux]

.

 

[PBY]

You'll be fine. When do you find out about the rest of your classes?

Sometime this week I'm assuming

 

[RandomDancing]

Give me hope law gaf- pulled a straight b in civ pro... Kinda thinking that might be my best grade. Honestly, I didn't have high expectations, but was hoping for a b+.

Don't get too concerned yet. Most of the time, my assumptions based off of how well I felt I did on the exam really didn't correspond with my actual grade.

Pro-tip: If you thought the exam was super easy and that you knew all the material, chances are the majority of your class felt the same way. Those who end up with the As likely only did a smidgen better than those who ended up with the Bs because the curve ends up being tight. Exams I've thought I nailed tend to end up being my B exams and exams I've felt unsure of ended up being my A exams, so I wouldn't worry (unless you really were so confused about the law that you couldn't formulate coherent answers - that led to my one bastard C+).

 

[PBY]

Don't get too concerned yet. Most of the time, my assumptions based off of how well I felt I did on the exam really didn't correspond with my actual grade.

Pro-tip: If you thought the exam was super easy and that you knew all the material, chances are the majority of your class felt the same way. Those who end up with the As likely only did a smidgen better than those who ended up with the Bs because the curve ends up being tight. Exams I've thought I nailed tend to end up being my B exams and exams I've felt unsure of ended up being my A exams, so I wouldn't worry (unless you really were so confused about the law that you couldn't formulate coherent answers - that led to my one bastard C+).

This actually gives me hope- I crammed for this class, but the issue was that the test was basically off of the E and E, which everyone had. The issues were VERY clear, I'm sure everyones test looked very very similar.

 

[Gregorn]

I'm looking at universities to go to right now but I didn't get enough A's to do Law anywhere good so how useful is Criminology as a substitute? I don't want to be a lawyer, just something to do with crime and justice etc.

I've gone from optimistic to extremely depressed in the last hour after seeing that I can't get anywhere decent with BBC a levels.

 

[mre]

They said I was too slow in completing assignments.

I suppose the actual thrust of my question was directed less at the reason for you getting fired and more at what that firm would say if contacted for a reference. Sorry for not making that clearer.

If you don't think that this firm would run you down when contacted, then put it on. I would try to avoid a 9 month gap if at all possible.

 

[ZackieChan]

Don't get too concerned yet. Most of the time, my assumptions based off of how well I felt I did on the exam really didn't correspond with my actual grade.

Pro-tip: If you thought the exam was super easy and that you knew all the material, chances are the majority of your class felt the same way. Those who end up with the As likely only did a smidgen better than those who ended up with the Bs because the curve ends up being tight. Exams I've thought I nailed tend to end up being my B exams and exams I've felt unsure of ended up being my A exams, so I wouldn't worry (unless you really were so confused about the law that you couldn't formulate coherent answers - that led to my one bastard C+).

Plus one to this.

Just got my IP Survey grade back. I assumed it would be a B-, going on how I felt after the exam (super racehorse). Turned out I got an A!

Torts first semester - C+. Fuck you, Torts. I felt great coming out of that! It was my first exam ever.

 

[Seraphinianus]

[smision]

final grade of the semester...B in family law. cool, went over the statutes a bit the night before, never paid attention in class, one of 3 essays was completely short, and the prof constantly called me up to chastise me for my attendance.

lawl school...how does it work?

 

[YoungHav]

I suppose the actual thrust of my question was directed less at the reason for you getting fired and more at what that firm would say if contacted for a reference. Sorry for not making that clearer.

If you don't think that this firm would run you down when contacted, then put it on. I would try to avoid a 9 month gap if at all possible.

They probably would not give me praise and keep it neutral at best. If I put them down it'll be a 6 month gap instead. Do firms really go back and ask previous employers questions that often?

 

[Pilgor]

So I finished 1st semester with a B+/A- average. A little disappointed, but I know I didn't work that hard, so hopefully I can step it up for the 2nd semester.

Assuming I do about the same in the second semester, is a summer job unlikely? I understand 1L summer jobs are not common.

Bring on conlaw, property and crimlaw.

 

[mikeybwright]

[smision]

final grade of the semester...B in family law. cool, went over the statutes a bit the night before, never paid attention in class, one of 3 essays was completely short, and the prof constantly called me up to chastise me for my attendance.

lawl school...how does it work?

I had one of my grades dropped a third of a grade due to missing 3 classes (twice a week class). I'm a sad panda.

 

[mre]

Do firms really go back and ask previous employers questions that often?

Mine did.

So I finished 1st semester with a B+/A- average. A little disappointed, but I know I didn't work that hard, so hopefully I can step it up for the 2nd semester.

Assuming I do about the same in the second semester, is a summer job unlikely? I understand 1L summer jobs are not common.

Bring on conlaw, property and crimlaw.

Depends upon where you are and your class ranking. 1st summer jobs were pretty common here (Alabama), because the Alabama firms were trying to snag the top "talent" and keep them from looking at firms in cities such as Atlanta.

 

[Bboy AJ]

So I finished 1st semester with a B+/A- average. A little disappointed, but I know I didn't work that hard, so hopefully I can step it up for the 2nd semester.

Assuming I do about the same in the second semester, is a summer job unlikely? I understand 1L summer jobs are not common.

Bring on conlaw, property and crimlaw.

1L summer jobs are very common. If you don't have one, you fucked up somehow. If you mean V100 firm gigs as a 1L, then that's a different story. Uncommon.

 

[Pollux]

.

 

[PBY]

Got grades back today, and I am so fucking disappointed (I'm a 1L):

Contracts = C
Civ. Pro = C
Property = A-
Legal Writing = B+
Crim = Don't know yet
Torts = Don't know yet

Those 4 grades that I've got back are only 25% of the total grade, since they're all year long classes.

Am I completely fucked for getting some type of internship this summer? Do two C's kill my chances of getting a decent job?

I know I'm over reacting but I was not expecting that.

Contracts was the first exam, I thought I knew it and think I brushed off studying because of that.

Civ Pro was open book, and I think I just said "fuck it, it's open book"

So Law-GAF, am I fucked?

Damn bro, I'm sorry; you did get an A- though, thats pretty great..... I just got my second grade back, B+. I still feel kind dissapointed, but I guess we can both improve second semester. I'm definitely gonna go talk to my profs and go over the tests, if only to get a feel for what exactly profs are looking for.

edit: not fucked btw- were gonna rip shit up in semester 2 haha.

edit 2: you know whats the median at your school?

 

[Pollux]

.

 

[PBY]

No clue. Although thinking back on it I really didn't study at all. Spent time on GAF or watching TV thinking I knew the material. I can def. see why I blew it on Contracts, same with Civ. Pro. thinking that I would be fine with it just being an open book exam. The A- and B+ do offset the C's somewhat but it's still a kick in the nuts.

I just need to work harder, meet with the prof. to find out what went wrong and stop screwing around.

Congrats on the B+.

My main question is, will this kill my chances at any kind of internship for my 1L summer, or am I still in the hunt? (I really don't care about being paid for internships, I just want to do something law related that can get me a letter of rec. that I can use for 2L summer)

I'm almost 100 percent sure that you can find a job. Youre gonna have to probably go the public interest route though, or start doing some serious networking. At least, thats the boat i find myself in now.

 

[Pollux]

.

 

[PBY]

I'm fine with that. As for networking, I grew up in Kentucky and am going to school in Boston, so all my connections are 800 miles away. It sucks.

Does anyone have any networking advice for people in my situation?

Send emails to alumni, look up firms in your area and try and set up informtional interviews, look up job openings on symplicity

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Got grades back today, and I am so fucking disappointed (I'm a 1L):

Contracts = C
Civ. Pro = C
Property = A-
Legal Writing = B+
Crim = Don't know yet
Torts = Don't know yet

Those 4 grades that I've got back are only 25% of the total grade, since they're all year long classes.

Am I completely fucked for getting some type of internship this summer? Do two C's kill my chances of getting a decent job?

I know I'm over reacting but I was not expecting that.

Contracts was the first exam, I thought I knew it and think I brushed off studying because of that.

Civ Pro was open book, and I think I just said "fuck it, it's open book"

So Law-GAF, am I fucked?

Seems similar to mine (the general mix) not the courses.

Don't worry about it. Granted I created an internship with contacts. I made in retailers and DVD release companies. It was for free, but it looked great on resumes, and it was legit work.

My big internship was with a Fortune 500 company that didn't care about grades or ability to use for credit. They hired me because I had a genuine love for the subject.


In short don't let grades get you down. In the end you pass or don't pass the bar. Hell past the core classes is the chance to bump things up. Funny enough I got a C+ in Civil Pro and in my last year an A in NY Civil Pro,

 

[mre]

I'm fine with that. As for networking, I grew up in Kentucky and am going to school in Boston, so all my connections are 800 miles away. It sucks.

Does anyone have any networking advice for people in my situation?

Where do you want to practice? Edit: and don't be afraid to get a job back in Kentucky even if you don't want to practice there. While it's preferable to get your experience in the area where you want to practice, any experience is preferable to none, and if your experience is in the type of law you want to practice, then even better.

 

[RandomDancing]

I've got a big deal job interview on Friday for post-grad employment that I'm trying not to let myself get too worried about. I haven't prepared a great deal yet, but I'll have a good amount of time tomorrow night and Friday morning. It just sucks because I spent all of last weekend sick with a monster head cold and I'm still suffering from an annoyingly persistent dry cough that I'm sure will immediately bother the people interviewing me. I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up downing half a bottle of cough syrup in the car beforehand. :/ ugh.

Does anyone have any networking advice for people in my situation?

Just from personal experience, I'd apply for firm jobs but also keep in mind the option of working as a summer clerk for a judge. If you want to end up practicing in Kentucky, it would be mighty helpful in future interviews to be able to point to some familiarity with your state's court system, and to make a strong contact for networking purposes with someone like a judge. Plus, I don't know how other schools work but at least at my school, if you choose an unpaid judicial clerkship for your summer you qualified for work study which for 1Ls was about $10/hour. It's obviously not a big-law firm summer salary but it's certainly livable.

 

[PBY]

Final grades in, B, B+, B+; slightly below median at my school.... I'll be okay jobwise right? ..RIGHT?

 

[Bboy AJ]

Final grades in, B, B+, B+; slightly below median at my school.... I'll be okay jobwise right? ..RIGHT?

NYU? Probably.