LowEndTorque
Member
Can anyone recommend a good resource for researching firms other than the usual suspects, i.e. martindale, NALP, and using LexisNexis/Westlaw to look up cases they were involved in?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Law School & Lawyer GAF
- Thread starter SD-Ness
- Start date
Byakuya769
Member
What kind of info are you looking for?
Ken Masters
Banned
There is little prestige with being a law student/lawyer unless you are going to a top law school like Yale and Harvard, it's laughable how easy it is to get into a low tier law school and the number of lawyers being churned out is shockingly high
LowEndTorque
Member
Good question.
In a broad sense, any info that will impress interviewers and set me apart from other candidates who likely used all these same sources for their research as well.
lol yup. That is probably the source of the problem rather than law students per se. I am sure they're more pleasant in other parts of the country.
idlethreats
Member
I go to a law school that I think most people would assume is full of d-bags based on name alone and the only thing I actually like about this place is the people. There are jerks and gunners and prestige-obsessed folks here of course, just like any other law school, but the bulk of the student body is full of really cool, down to earth pleasant people that I truly enjoy going to law school with.
That said, I've met very few people here who are that aware of classism/class issues and their own place in the and at the top of the system.
Look up alums (or 2L/3Ls that summered there) from your law school that work at the firm(s) now and shoot them an email to see if they'd be willing to meet with you over coffee to discuss the firm.
LowEndTorque
Member
Thanks. I already have a phone date with a 3L that's articling there. Just trying to think of what questions to ask her.
Same. While I wouldn't say I liked the people (on the whole, I very much didn't), it was more about the last part of that. I knew of very few legitimate assholes among the non-LLM student body. If a person wasn't genuinely polite, they were inoffensive.
However, while I'm not some raging socialist class warrior (far, far from it), the warped perspective of the majority of my classmates held was something I really disliked. Concepts as simple as what constituted a livable wage, what was an acceptable employment situation, what success was defined as (if it wasn't private-sector materialism and prestige, it was public sector prestige), how prestige seeped into everything (stupid shit like what neighborhoods to live in, let alone where in the country to live) and a whole lot more.
After a friendly exploratory conversation with someone new, I was so often left wondering "what the hell bubble did you grow up in?".
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Just signed up for the fun that is CLE Classes and with NY for the first two years you can't do remote ones (though this one got exempted). Luckily it's the last I have to do
http://www.nysba.org/AM/Template.cf...DescByRegClass.cfm&ConferenceID=5902#register
Anyone going to be at this one?
http://www.nysba.org/AM/Template.cf...DescByRegClass.cfm&ConferenceID=5902#register
Anyone going to be at this one?
Five of my co-workers including my friend have law degress without ever practicing. It is actually a good degree to have in some instances.
The MPRE is a national exam, so nothing state specific.
I used a book that either Kaplan or BarBri gave out as a bribe to try to get you pay for their bar review, so I'm not much of a help I'm afraid. It's a pretty simple test overall, so I doubt that there would be much of a difference between the various books.
ZackieChan
Member
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
How? They have law degrees. You don't. Yet theyre still your coworkers.
I just went over the outline from my legal ethics class. The test is quite easy.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
SerArthurDayne
Member
I thought it said that! I already took it, but I know a guy in your position.
Don't worryy about it. Manos is not wrong in his statement. If you took a PR class, just read through the outline. Otherwise grab a free Barbri or whatever book and flip through that, and do a few practice questions.
Also, make sure you have a photograph of the correct dimensions when your test day comes. Nobody ever realizes they need that until the day before.
Nerdy Fergy
Neo Member
Had my interview with the Staff Judge Advocate yesterday. I think it went okay. I am not sure how well I did answering some of the questions. I had gotten used to answering interview questions for jobs at Walmart or Grocery stores, which means I forgot that interviewers can ask real questions.
I assume this is for a class or something?
Concise and direct arguments and language are the key to effective legal writing. Flowery language and verbosity are to be avoided, always. Hopefully your instructor knows this. It was a tough habit for me to break.
Straight to the point is preferable, but make sure that you're not missing any important law (or law that your instructor thinks is important!) that could provide more length to your brief. Also, you can consider breaking sections of your paper into subsections to emphasize your argument, but only do that if it will, in fact, strengthen your argument.
I'm writing a brief right now as well, so I feel your pain.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I used the Emmanuel's Guide to Professional Responsibility for the MPRE. I studied for approximately two to three hours the night before the exam and got a scaled 100. I only really read the capsule summary in the Emmanuel's guide and the detailed part on judge's ethics (we didn't cover that in PR).
brucewaynegretzky
Member
How long do you typically get for briefs in practice? I've always been kinda curious about it. In my old office an attorney might take a week for a MAJOR brief, but usually two days-ish with other stuff thrown in for your run of the mill 10-15 page brief.... but that was government.
It depends. I'm only writing two sections of this brief and have a week. Of course it's one of a hundred projects that I'm working on, so I won't spend the whole time working on it.
My MPRE experience involved triple the studying and far worse performance, god damn. I'm impressed.
RandomDancing
Member
I used the free barbri book. They basically give you an outline with fill in the blank spaces and force you to watch around a 3 hour lecture online that tells you what to fill in the blanks with. I was about halfway through my PR class at the time and only spent around 5 hours watching the lecture/filling in the blanks and then taking (and bombing) the practice tests because it was my spring break. I ended up with a 113 on it.
Honestly though if you think you might end up doing barbri for your bar prep, the MPRE review is good practice since it gets you in the mode of the whole filling in the blanks, listening to lectures, studying from that kind of outline thing.
LowEndTorque
Member
FML.
I had no idea that writing a statement of facts could be so hard. I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing, lol.
I had no idea that writing a statement of facts could be so hard. I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing, lol.
LowEndTorque
Member
Wow since my second week into this I haven't had more than about 5 minutes of free time per day. My entire life 7 days a week consists of attending class and reading with a few short breaks in between for eating and sleeping. But I'm usually reading while I eat and reading in bed until I pass out so I don't think those count as breaks. Taking the time to type out this post feels like I'm wasting valuable time.
And from what I've been told so far by people who work at large firms, that lifestyle never ends. They spend their weekends in the office and haven't had a day off in months.
So yeah, random thoughts from a 1L... Don't go to law school and become a lawyer if you enjoy having leisure time
And from what I've been told so far by people who work at large firms, that lifestyle never ends. They spend their weekends in the office and haven't had a day off in months.
So yeah, random thoughts from a 1L... Don't go to law school and become a lawyer if you enjoy having leisure time
Big Law gonna Big Law. There are plenty of other careers for attorneys, including actually practicing law, where you can still maintain a work-family life balance.
Finally picked a firm for next summer; has a bit of a sketchy rep, but it seems solid financially and somewhat decently ranked in vault (blech). Excited, a little scared, but more than anything just feel overwhelmingly LUCKY given my terribad grades.
Thanks to all law-gaf for all your help, you guys have been really great about answering questions/been super helpful throughout this process.
Thanks to all law-gaf for all your help, you guys have been really great about answering questions/been super helpful throughout this process.
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
You're only two weeks in. You're already making ridiculous claims like you're a war hardened veteran.
And away I go to pack for Zurich. Leisure time and all.
Lolol. Zurich sounds amazing, enjoy man.
He meant to say Zurich, Mississippi.
LowEndTorque
Member
What type of law do you practice and who/what do you work for?
This thread would be a great help to newbies like me with some more detailed discussion about the different career options that are out there.
With a family I'm beginning to realize big law probably isn't for me....
I'm only a lowly 2L- but whats your school rank (generally)/area? And what are you thinking outside of biglaw? I'm inclined to say go government if the hours are what is throwing you off, the problem is that its reaaaally tough to find that kind of work. Trust me, I just went through OCI- a lot of people at my school went into law school with the "I'll never work biglaw" and almost without fail all of them ended up interviewing/accepting a summer position. Why? Because they realized that outside of biglaw there are other jobs, but that those jobs are: A- Limited, B- Hard to get, and C- Realized that 2 years in biglaw is probably a better set up for government/in-house/boutique work. Just my experience.
Frank the Great
Banned
never understood the leisure complaints about law school. i'm a 3L and and with internships/externships, law review, and a 1.5 hour (one-way) commute every day i have had plenty of time to both get good grades and keep my high-maintenance lady-friend happy. i mean i'm not exactly at yale but still.
my biggest advice is to not outline until around thanksgiving break in the fall semester, or spring break in the spring. just take a week and really focus on getting the outlines done, no need to keep up with them during the semester. also i never briefed cases, even as a 1L, just a waste of time imo.
i already missed the boat on biglaw, btw, but from what i've heard from colleagues the hours are indeed ridiculous and i am completely turned off by it. would rather take a non-law government job than that shit.
my biggest advice is to not outline until around thanksgiving break in the fall semester, or spring break in the spring. just take a week and really focus on getting the outlines done, no need to keep up with them during the semester. also i never briefed cases, even as a 1L, just a waste of time imo.
i already missed the boat on biglaw, btw, but from what i've heard from colleagues the hours are indeed ridiculous and i am completely turned off by it. would rather take a non-law government job than that shit.
If you're studying this often, you're doing something wrong.
LowEndTorque
Member
The sad part is that I'm studying this much just to keep up with the required readings and assignments and not fall behind. We have 7 mandatory courses for our first semester at my school so just attending class is a Monday-Friday 9-5 thing. We usually have 3-5 cases per class that we need to understand the issues, ratio, obiter etc. so the rest of our time is either reading or doing the assignments that are due every week.
What you touched on is exactly what the chair of our provincial Bar told us in a lecture in OTL. That the vast, vast majority of our class will end up at big law firms after we graduate. He estimated that probably 70-80% of our class will end up in big law after we graduate. Upper years have also been telling me how hard it is to land government jobs/boutique firms and how much easier it is to land a summer job or articling spot in big law.
I wouldn't mind grinding it out at a big firm for a few years, especially with all that student debt to pay off. But I'd love to hear from anyone who managed to sucessfully transition from big law into something else.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Eh, this year is going to be one of the most interesting and miserable years of your life. After that you'll realize all that stuff that you thought was so amazing last year is really rather dull in practice and things will slowly get more similar to how they were before. For example, I'm quickly remembering what a real person weekend feels like. It's actually rather pleasant!
7 courses, including 3 of the 6 1L core curriculum? How many credits is this school forcing you to take in one semester?
LowEndTorque
Member
I'm in Canada so I don't know how the curriculum differs from the US, but all first years at our school have to take Contracts, Property, Tort, Public law, Criminal, Legal Research and Writing and OTL during the first semester.
To be fair, OTL is only a pass/fail course based on a 1 hour oral exam so it isn't nearly as demanding as everything else, but we still have to attend it 3 times a week and do all the readings if we intend to pass so it's still time consuming.
Winter semester and everything thereafter is 6 courses/semester.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
What are OTL and Public Law? What do you take second semester?
LowEndTorque
Member
OTL = Orientation to Law. Public Law is called something else at other schools, but its basically admin law and legislative procedure.
Second semester is all the same courses minus OTL. Contracts, Tort, Public, Crim, Property and legal Research&Writing are all full year courses that take up both semesters.
Similar threads
- Locked