Snowden's Secret
Banned
To clarify, I'm not considering law school for financial reasons, but because I want a job I'm not embarrassed to tell people I have.
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Law School & Lawyer GAF
- Thread starter SD-Ness
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idlethreats
Member
It depends on where you want to go. If you pull a 165 on your LSAT, you'll be in good shape for a lot of good schools, just not the elite ones. Whatever you do, go to the best school you can manage. And then kill it when you get there.
I was like you, BTW. Poli Sci major, nothing else to do, why not go to law school? It worked out for me, but it took more work than I was expecting, to be honest.
Cagey, I kinda agree with you-
And snowden, I hate to tell this to you- but that's a pretty terrible reason to go to law school. Not sure your quite aware of how difficult it is to get a job.
I agree with peterboy. It's the quintessential wrong reason to go to law school: 'I majored in political science (or history, philosophy, or English), I don't know what I want to do with my life, law school seems like a cool idea, and working at a firm makes me want to go.' There's no conviction, it's just postponement of beginning a career for more liberal arts oriented education... but with an incredible price tag.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The government should put holds on all law school loans until a loan officer from the government meets with the applicant. If the applicant says his plan is to "make use of his political science degree,""get into international law," or "I want to go to law school, but not be a lawyer," then his loan application is rejected.
Yup. And I mostly feel this way bc I went to law school for a similarish reason, and I JUST went through the hiring process.
Add "I like constitutional law" and I co-sign so hard.
Also- any variety of "entertainment law, art law, sports law, etc"
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
"I want to do Sports Law."
"...and you want to go to school where?
"[Random low Tier 2 or Tier 3]"
"Loan rejected."
Another good option for rejection is "I think I would be a good lawyer because my mom/brother/wife/friend/NeoGAF says I'm good at arguing."
I did once know a girl who told me she wanted to do "Art Law." I asked her if I she meant she wanted to practice law artistically and she got really mad. She then reported to the professor in a mock Mediation that we would never settle our fake case because quote, I was being "a total dick."
And you think that being a lawyer is such a job? I started law school and my dad began telling people I was doing a 3 year stretch in prison for selling drugs.
"I don't even want to go to biglaw or need biglaw money. I am cool starting out by going to a small firm for $100k."
oh mannnnn this is so true
Phoenix
Member
I love the law... its crazy that most lawyers suck so much. There was one that I retained that I'm currently working with the Georgia State Bar about because he failed in his responsibilities to Communication (legal misdemeanor when you mess up) and Diligence (legal death penalty when you mess up).
WonkyPanda
Member
I will completely, 100%, agree with this statement. So many people go into law school for the wrong reasons. The majority of which end up having to do something with making it rain at the strip joint. Law school is an exhausting endeavor, it's grueling, the coursework weighs heavy on you, and on top of all of that, you need to know how to work a room and network efficiently enough to at least be somewhat recognizable among the multitude of law students.
However, I, personally, will disagree with Cagey's advice about 'fair debit' within the top 10 of schools. I actually am paying sticker at Boalt, and I haven't regretted a second of it. My job prospects are great (so far), my education is fantastic, and I've made some amazing friends. I think it's advisable for someone to pay sticker to go to a T14 with the recognition that it will not be a mealticket to drive a ferrari when you graduate. The days of lawyers being thrown salaries left and right are over, for the time being. If you truly can't see yourself being a lawyer, working 70+ hour weeks, and working with some of the most archaic doctrines known to man, then run away quickly. However, if you do have the willpower and the genuine interest in the law, then go for it. It can be a very rewarding career and having a JD from an esteemed school will open many doors down the road.
Oh man, no end of laughs for that one. Good stuff.
I'd love to be able to practice in the US but it seems getting accreditation for an Australian Law Degree is more difficult then I expected.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Damn this thread got more depressing than the bar prep thread..... impressive.
On a side note, I can't tell if I'm competent at my new job. It's very frustrating coming from my old office where I knew they really liked my work but didn't have the funding to hire me. Now I'm a poorly paid intern trying to transition to full time at this firm and I'm terrified I'm going to be there for four months then they're going to rush me out the door.
EDIT: Just realized how negative that came off.... I'm honestly just not sure. I could be really great at this job or the worst person they've ever seen. I'm just less confident in my ability to assess my work since it's new. I don't like it....
On a side note, I can't tell if I'm competent at my new job. It's very frustrating coming from my old office where I knew they really liked my work but didn't have the funding to hire me. Now I'm a poorly paid intern trying to transition to full time at this firm and I'm terrified I'm going to be there for four months then they're going to rush me out the door.
EDIT: Just realized how negative that came off.... I'm honestly just not sure. I could be really great at this job or the worst person they've ever seen. I'm just less confident in my ability to assess my work since it's new. I don't like it....
EatinOlives
Member
I have this feeling my undergrad GPA is far too low (3.0) to be considered anywhere that's worth it, regardless of my LSAT. How much does the LSAT score weigh in a regular law school application versus the GPA?
idlethreats
Member
A 99th percentile LSAT could probably help you over come your GPA at some good schools, but it's iffy I think.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
The way law school admissions are weighted is so amazingly dumb in hindsight.
EatinOlives
Member
:/
That's not encouraging. I'm taking in a little more than two weeks and I still can't finish half the logic games sections.
Byakuya769
Member
I cannot in good conscious tell anyone to pursue law school.
idlethreats
Member
Hate to be harsh, but if you're two weeks out and you can't finish one of the sections in time, you need to forgo the October LSAT and shoot for December instead. If you're not using the Powerscore Logic Games Bible, get a copy and complete it, front cover to back cover. A 3.0 is going to be a huge hurdle to overcome in the admissions process and you're not doing yourself any favors if you don't have the best possible LSAT to offset that GPA. On the plus side, just remember that the LSAT is not an aptitude test; it's a learnable test, you just need to give yourself the time and have the right tools.
It's not impossible for you to get into a good law school - you could be the exception to the rule - but you really need to give yourself more time to learn the logic games and research both which schools you can realistically expect to get into and what your job prospects will be coming out of them.
My point re: the value and recommendation of law school limited to the top 6 (...maybe) was solely in reference to what you said in bold.
Everything after the bolded part I agree with entirely. I would not dissuade someone who truly wants to do this from doing it, regardless of school 'tier'.
It's just that the majority of people I met in law school (graduated this past May) fell into the first category. For most, it was a money grab: the JD produces the most lucrative combination of lowest barriers of entry (no work exp required, just do well on standardized tests) with the highest starting salary given the requirements.
Plus there was always one of the following two factors: 1) something they had some semblance of an interest in back at undergrad or 2) "being an attorney" still has a cache among the general public as a prestigious, noble profession (lol).
brucewaynegretzky
Member
I just remember working on the hill and feeling like everyone and their mother had a JD. I felt like a JD would make that a more stable career. Then I didn't go back during law school..... durrrr....
Working at a gov't relations firm now though and there are a number of JDs there as well. Not sure it was "worth it" though versus just going to work on the hill to begin with.
I also really enjoyed the employment law work that I did, but finding work there really sucks, especially since my employment law experience is government related as well :/
Shit- you're not gonna wanna hear this, but you need to crush the LSAT. Like 175+ crush it. My advice? Find a somewhat reputable thing to do this year- ie some good nonprofit- and study for the whole year. Take it for the next cycle and crush it.
Currently taking my first (and last) law class (Legal Issues for Engineering Managers) and am looking for some good, general legal resources. Cornell has a pretty good online resource, but I'm wondering what else is out there. I'm also open to any great books on the history of law as well as books/articles on the law and software engineering.
Eh, I don't think studying for the LSAT for more than two to three weeks or so is particularly productive, since that's about as long as you'll need to get a feel for what's on the test. It's not like you're learning anything of actual substance.
Google Scholar is a pretty good combination of reasonably comprehensive and easy to use if you're just fishing around for appellate opinions and legal periodicals. Plus, it's free.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I totally disagree. We aren't doing our jobs as students of the law, nay, members of a conscientious society if we tell this guy to go to law school on the grounds that his undergrad degree is useless. Frankly, law degrees themselves are useless unless you know what you want to do with it and have a reasonable opportunity to do so.
Only about 50% of law graduates in Australia actually go on to practice, is it similar in the US?
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
From a pure dollars standpoint, no one should go to law school.
Anyway, this thread became depressing. My job is awesome. I have to go in to work tomorrow morning, a Saturday. Literally the first weekend I've had to work. And it's not even work. I'm the lawyer behind an international dealing with the press.
stereotypical law student. In it for the show? Good luck.
Prestige, blech
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Yup. Too many snobby insecure weirdos, it's amazing. Now I understand exactly where all the lawyer jokes and lawyer animus comes from. The filthy rich kids were the worse lol. And this was a 3rd Tier school I went to, couldn't imagine the level of dickheadishness at a top tier place.
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
Once in awhile I feel like I may have missed out by not going to law school but based on the LSAT class I took - I def don't miss the douchy people I was surrounded by
Depends where actually. You will always have gunners in every law-school environment. But in terms of the "douches" alluded to, I honestly did not run into many. That type of douchiness is usually bred by insecurity.
Frank the Great
Banned
my school has a low number of douchebags. in fact, the rich entitled douchebags are readily identifiable and stick out like a sore thumb. most of the students are pretty normal.
then again, we aren't exactly an elite school.
then again, we aren't exactly an elite school.
The dickbaggery didn't run as rampant as you'd expect at the "top tier", and a lot of the people were quite polite.
But even the most polite person... their perspective and outlook was so far removed from what I could comprehend.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Same, never could recall many. Most were nice and always willing to help with missed notes and outlines.
You went to school on Manhattan, right?
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Fixed.
That's one of the worst reasons ever to go to law school. Do you really need others to validate your life?
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