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League of Legends Championship Series: Season 5

P

PhillipCostigan

Member
Terbinator said:
WTF is this shit. Origen finish the season second and also 2nd to FNC yet fall to third?
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Fnatic had the highest championship points, but since they finished first in Summer they get the first seed anyway. Because of that, the team with the second highest championship points gets the seconds seed, which was H2K.

Origen will have to go through the gauntlet to try and qualify as the third seed.

It's to reward teams that perform well over both Spring and Summer splits, but since Origen weren't in the Spring split they obviously couldn't get championship points from it.
 
T

Terbinator

Member
PhillipCostigan said:
It's to reward teams that perform well over both Spring and Summer splits, but since Origen weren't in the Spring split they obviously couldn't get championship points from it.
Click to expand...

Which is a bobbins solution to the spring split problem.

Edit: Riot's esports site continues to be useless in conveying competitive information to the masses. I don't understand why they can't take a few simple cues from the thousands of sports websites around the world.
 
K

Kotetsu534

Member
Stone Ocean said:
I wouldn't be so sure of that. EU's middle of the pack is a fucking wildcard tournament, if H2K had to go through the gauntlet they could easily just shit the bed and get Gambit qualified or some shit
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This is surely unfair on H2K. They played 6 games against Giants and Roccat in playoffs and won them all, and easily took 3rd in the league. They're clearly closer to Origen and Fnatic than the other teams.
 
L

Leezard

Member
Stone Ocean said:
I wouldn't be so sure of that. EU's middle of the pack is a fucking wildcard tournament, if H2K had to go through the gauntlet they could easily just shit the bed and get Gambit qualified or some shit
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They would still have the most league points, so they would only need to win one round. I have no doubts they would take uol, roccat etc.
They are not a middle of the pack team.
 
G

galv

Unconfirmed Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, this means that the strongest team (likely) that Origin will have to face in the gauntlet is UoL/Roccat since H2K qualified right?

The unfortunate part of this is that if Origin wins the gauntlet, they're going to be 3rd seed which means they could potentially go up against CN#1 and KR#2 or vice-versa, while H2K will get a better group...
 
L

Leezard

Member
galv said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, this means that the strongest team (likely) that Origin will have to face in the gauntlet is UoL/Roccat since H2K qualified right?

The unfortunate part of this is that if Origin wins the gauntlet, they're going to be 3rd seed which means they could potentially go up against CN#1 and KR#2 or vice-versa, while H2K will get a better group...
Click to expand...
That should be correct.
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
Getting a better/worse group doesn't really matter, even if you make out of groups you will still have to deal with at least one asian super team
 
I

Imperfected

Member
Honestly, the "Origen has to play the gauntlet" part isn't what bothers me about the format. They have a single split of performance to go from and only came in second. They need to prove themselves, and that's what the gauntlet is for.

Nah, the bad part is that we get two season finals that both have virtually no bearing. The "better seeding into groups" thing is borderline worthless between 1st and 2nd seeds because it's a total crapshoot as to whether or not the 1st/2nd teams from other regions are actually good enough to make a given group as difficult as it's "supposed" to be. Basically, the 3rd seed is the only one that's guaranteed to have a bad time.

I doubt they will because of their team pride/"legacy", but from a strategic standpoint TSM really should just phone it in with these finals. They can avoid showing anything of merit on the current patch (Dyrus learned GP? Keep it in your back pocket.), and the value of the seed difference is just so trivial.

Feel like Fnatic only even played half as hard as they did because of the "perfect season" behind them, and even then they probably under-prepared for the match due to it having so little meaning.
 
T

theprodigy

Member
Imperfected said:
Honestly, the "Origen has to play the gauntlet" part isn't what bothers me about the format. They have a single split of performance to go from and only came in second. They need to prove themselves, and that's what the gauntlet is for.

Nah, the bad part is that we get two season finals that both have virtually no bearing. The "better seeding into groups" thing is borderline worthless between 1st and 2nd seeds because it's a total crapshoot as to whether or not the 1st/2nd teams from other regions are actually good enough to make a given group as difficult as it's "supposed" to be. Basically, the 3rd seed is the only one that's guaranteed to have a bad time.

I doubt they will because of their team pride/"legacy", but from a strategic standpoint TSM really should just phone it in with these finals. They can avoid showing anything of merit on the current patch (Dyrus learned GP? Keep it in your back pocket.), and the value of the seed difference is just so trivial.

Feel like Fnatic only even played half as hard as they did because of the "perfect season" behind them, and even then they probably under-prepared for the match due to it having so little meaning.
Click to expand...
So what's your solution to this, byes at worlds for #1 seeds?
 
P

PhillipCostigan

Member
Imperfected said:
Honestly, the "Origen has to play the gauntlet" part isn't what bothers me about the format. They have a single split of performance to go from and only came in second. They need to prove themselves, and that's what the gauntlet is for.

Nah, the bad part is that we get two season finals that both have virtually no bearing. The "better seeding into groups" thing is borderline worthless between 1st and 2nd seeds because it's a total crapshoot as to whether or not the 1st/2nd teams from other regions are actually good enough to make a given group as difficult as it's "supposed" to be. Basically, the 3rd seed is the only one that's guaranteed to have a bad time.

I doubt they will because of their team pride/"legacy", but from a strategic standpoint TSM really should just phone it in with these finals. They can avoid showing anything of merit on the current patch (Dyrus learned GP? Keep it in your back pocket.), and the value of the seed difference is just so trivial.

Feel like Fnatic only even played half as hard as they did because of the "perfect season" behind them, and even then they probably under-prepared for the match due to it having so little meaning.
Click to expand...

that's so off base it's crazy. First seed is so important for NA and EU teams. If you get 1st seed then you 100% avoid LGD and probably SKT T1 which is huge. If you don't get 1st seed, you could end up in a group with CN/KR1, CN/KR2 and NA/EU3

Nobody wants a group like that.

These games all matter a huge amount for teams like CLG and Origen especially as they could be the difference between 1st seed or 3rd seed. 3rd seed is a nightmare since 3rd in NA/EU is with IWC in the lowest pool. Imagine having to play against KR/CN 1, KR/CN 2 and NA/EU 2 or something? They would never make it out of the groups.
 
I

Imperfected

Member
theprodigy said:
So what's your solution to this, byes at worlds for #1 seeds?
Click to expand...

Honestly, yeah. Though it does create some problems of its own (ie, laughably one-sided quarterfinals games at Worlds), ultimately I think it's worth having the World's format eat a couple of blow-outs midway through to get a decent Grand Final for the regionals.

Like, there are always going to be blow-outs at Worlds, anyway. As long as you keep them out of the Semi/Grand-Finals it's not even that big of a deal.
 
I

Imperfected

Member
PhillipCostigan said:
These games all matter a huge amount for teams like CLG and Origen especially as they could be the difference between 1st seed or 3rd seed. 3rd seed is a nightmare since 3rd in NA/EU is with IWC in the lowest pool. Imagine having to play against KR/CN 1, KR/CN 2 and NA/EU 2 or something? They would never make it out of the groups.
Click to expand...

I didn't say they don't matter to CLG/Origen. I said they don't matter enough to TSM/Fnatic. The fact they matter to the teams that actually need to win them to even guarantee qualification is sort of patently obvious, and exactly what creates such a huge disparity in motivation between them and the teams that walk away with 2nd seed regardless of their performance.

I think it's evident in Fnatic's preparation for the series, too. Their pick/bans were consistently poor. They were either holding back strategies or just didn't prepare for the series as heavily as they should have.
 
N

NSESN

Member
Imperfected said:
I didn't say they don't matter to CLG/Origen. I said they don't matter enough to TSM/Fnatic. The fact they matter to the teams that actually need to win them to even guarantee qualification is sort of patently obvious, and exactly what creates such a huge disparity in motivation between them and the teams that walk away with 2nd seed regardless of their performance.

I think it's evident in Fnatic's preparation for the series, too. Their pick/bans were consistently poor. They were either holding back strategies or just didn't prepare for the series as heavily as they should have.
Click to expand...

Until game 4 i agree with you, in game 5 no, they actually tried hard that game, last time YS played annie was against SKT IRC.
 
P

PhillipCostigan

Member
Imperfected said:
I didn't say they don't matter to CLG/Origen. I said they don't matter enough to TSM/Fnatic. The fact they matter to the teams that actually need to win them to even guarantee qualification is sort of patently obvious, and exactly what creates such a huge disparity in motivation between them and the teams that walk away with 2nd seed regardless of their performance.

I think it's evident in Fnatic's preparation for the series, too. Their pick/bans were consistently poor. They were either holding back strategies or just didn't prepare for the series as heavily as they should have.
Click to expand...

Like I said, saying 1st seed doesn't matter is so hilariously off base. TSM would never have gotten to the quarter finals last year if it wasn't for getting 1st seed. Dodging EU/KR #1 is massive.

And saying Fnatic's drafts were consistently poor is also doing a disservice to Origen because their drafting was fantastic. There are two sides to everything.

Imperfected said:
Honestly, yeah. Though it does create some problems of its own (ie, laughably one-sided quarterfinals games at Worlds), ultimately I think it's worth having the World's format eat a couple of blow-outs midway through to get a decent Grand Final for the regionals.

Like, there are always going to be blow-outs at Worlds, anyway. As long as you keep them out of the Semi/Grand-Finals it's not even that big of a deal.
Click to expand...

This is the way it was for season 3 and everybody moaned that C9 got knocked out because they weren't warmed up and the final was a 3-0 blowout. History shows this suggestion makes for a worse tournament overall with less exciting groups to boot.
 
I

Imperfected

Member
PhillipCostigan said:
This is the way it was for season 3 and everybody moaned that C9 got knocked out because they weren't warmed up and the final was a 3-0 blowout. History shows this suggestion makes for a worse tournament overall with less exciting groups to boot.
Click to expand...

Groups are always terrible, and they should always be terrible. Unless there's actual global parity happening, the entire point of the group phase from a tournament organization standpoint is to get the worst out of the way before going into brackets.

Hell, it's only because it's World Finals that the group stages are even fully broadcast. Back in my day (#caneshake) only a fourth of the matches of the group stages of tournaments were even on stream. No one wants to see the Turkish Wild Card vs. the Korean Champions.
 
P

PhillipCostigan

Member
Imperfected said:
Groups are always terrible, and they should always be terrible. Unless there's actual global parity happening, the entire point of the group phase from a tournament organization standpoint is to get the worst out of the way before going into brackets.

Hell, it's only because it's World Finals that the group stages are even fully broadcast. Back in my day (#caneshake) only a fourth of the matches of the group stages of tournaments were even on stream. No one wants to see the Turkish Wild Card vs. the Korean Champions.
Click to expand...

You say that, and yet one of the biggest stories from Worlds 2014 was Kabum, the wildcard from BR, effectively knocking Alliance out of the tournament. Upsets happen, groups are fun to watch.
 
L

Leezard

Member
Imperfected said:
Groups are always terrible, and they should always be terrible. Unless there's actual global parity happening, the entire point of the group phase from a tournament organization standpoint is to get the worst out of the way before going into brackets.

Hell, it's only because it's World Finals that the group stages are even fully broadcast. Back in my day (#caneshake) only a fourth of the matches of the group stages of tournaments were even on stream. No one wants to see the Turkish Wild Card vs. the Korean Champions.
Click to expand...
Unless they get kabuum'ed, then everyone wants to watch.
 
I

Imperfected

Member
PhillipCostigan said:
You say that, and yet one of the biggest stories from Worlds 2014 was Kabum, the wildcard from BR, effectively knocking Alliance out of the tournament. Upsets happen, groups are fun to watch.
Click to expand...

I'm mostly kidding in suggesting they shouldn't be streamed, though it does say something about how bad groups usually are that many of the games traditionally weren't. I do want them to be recorded so I can go back and watch the 2-3 out of 24 group stage games that are actually entertaining, I just don't want to watch them live.

(I am hoping we have an actual Wild Card slip into quarters this year, though, rather than just a spoiler. There would be mass chaos.)
 
T

Terbinator

Member
That Officer Vi tho.

N40yxzu.gif
 
K

Kotetsu534

Member
I think there's a big underestimation here of how much winning NA/EU titles means to the players and teams. Ultimately, they knew that in all likelihood the best they can do in terms of actually winning trophies is intra-regional competition - the odds of even Fnatic winning Worlds are very low against the likes of LGD & SKT. In previous seasons the odds were ~0% (except season 2 for Gambit and CLG.eu). The Fnatic players went wild when they won, so did TSM's players last year against C9. So did TheOddOne & Reginald back when they beat GGU in the very first split.
 
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