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[PhillipCostigan]

My problem with 2 v 1 is how incredibly fucking boring it is to watch. It severely reduces the amount of viable competitive picks for one, so we see fucking Jayce and Kennen in every single game.

And the "strategy" is the same every time. Put 2 guys against one, take the tower and let the solo laners go back to farming, only lane interaction with each other is severely reduced because they're so under farmed they can't kill each other.

I'd much rather see solo laners and duo laners duke it out to see who is actually better. It's a much, much more interesting game to watch because people reach critical mass quicker and it's more interesting to see laners fight each other to see who's better or who picked more intelligently than to see 2 dudes struggle to farm for the first 5 or 10 minutes.

2 v 1 is so incredibly boring to watch. It's awful. Thankfully it's extremely uncommon in solo queue, or I think I'd stop watching League altogether. I'm already becoming bored of the very samey LCS.

 

[Boken]

My problem with 2 v 1 is how incredibly fucking boring it is to watch. It severely reduces the amount of viable competitive picks for one, so we see fucking Jayce and Kennen in every single game.

And the "strategy" is the same every time. Put 2 guys against one, take the tower and let the solo laners go back to farming, only lane interaction with each other is severely reduced because they're so under farmed they can't kill each other.

I'd much rather see solo laners and duo laners duke it out to see who is actually better. It's a much, much more interesting game to watch because people reach critical mass quicker and it's more interesting to see laners fight each other to see who's better or who picked more intelligently than to see 2 dudes struggle to farm for the first 5 or 10 minutes.

2 v 1 is so incredibly boring to watch. It's awful. Thankfully it's extremely uncommon in solo queue, or I think I'd stop watching League altogether. I'm already becoming bored of the very samey LCS.

i never said watching the 2v1 is terribly exciting, ive touched on this point. its the flow effects from taking the first tower that makes the game so much deeper

at least 2v1 lanes last like 6 minutes, compared to top lane farm snooze fest of 20minutes

like seriously, league isnt a 1v1 game

 

[dimb]

first tower gets taken and then they rush bot or mid to stay near dragon. i don't really see the variety there either and to me it isn't worth the necessity of wave clear champs to hold towers.

i feel like there are less pro games worth watching this season than last.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Agree with soda cop, I'm not seeing what strategic depth your talking about here. It's the same thing all the time. Get tower, rush for dragon, try to get more towers.

Not to mention it encourages things like Velocity's jungle Ezreal push comp, which actively discourages fighting and any sort of interaction.

No, League isn't a 1 v 1 game, but it's sure as hell more interesting to watch 1 v 1 match ups than 1 v 2 match ups.

 

[Einbroch]

The problem is that the game has become way too watered down. The meta is exact. You don't follow the meta, you're likely not going to perform well as a team.

The abilities get nerfed, nerfed, nerfed instead of balanced, balanced, balanced. Dota 2 just got a huge patch where a lot of heroes ultimates are now effected by Scepter, making ho-hum heroes now somewhat competitive. Even if they're still not competitive, now they're fun to play. You hardly ever see a champion get buffed in LoL, and when they do, it's because of a rework.

While they added a few interesting items this season (BotRK with it's use effect, etc), there's still nothing that can make a viewer go "wow". No Blink Dagger, no sheepstick, none of that stuff. It's all in the abilities, and as stated before, these abilities are constantly getting nerfed or are not interesting to begin with.

Support champions in LoL are less effective than in other MOBAs. They're boring to play and are babysitters and ward machines, plain and simple. In Dota, supports are INCREDIBLY strong early game, stronger than carries. The point of a support is to help your carries into late game by being the muscle early. In LoL, it's to make sure your ADC can farm. Exciting.

Dota has its fair share of issues, but I find it infinitely more enjoyable to watch than LoL.

 

[Leezard]

Support champions in LoL are less effective than in other MOBAs. They're boring to play and are babysitters and ward machines, plain and simple. In Dota, supports are INCREDIBLY strong early game, stronger than carries. The point of a support is to help your carries into late game by being the muscle early. In LoL, it's to make sure your ADC can farm. Exciting.

I agree with some of the other stuff (LoL being more tuned down, Dota generally having more power in everything), but this is just plain wrong. Supports being passive ward bots only happens for bad players.

 

[Wolf Akela]

Supports playing very passive aren't good. I weep everytime I see a Soraka doing nothing but heal/ward early game.

 

[Einbroch]

Sorry, by passive I meant staying with your ADC. I know good supports put pressure and help secure kills. Leona and Thresh are great at this. Sona and Soraka can poke like champs, etc.

I meant more that they don't wander the map and gank like in Dota or try and counter-jungle like in Dota. Do you place your ward protecting against ganks or do you place it in the jungle so they can't creep pull? Both? Okay, then you're behind on gold, but so are they. Do you roam to mid and help your mid get a kill or stay and protect your lane partner or partners?

There's just a lot less variety in LoL. Even in pro games.

 

[bjaelke]

Taric, cow and blitz used to roam a lot in the early days.

 

[Leezard]

Using the warding as an example doesn't really help your point as you do that in LoL, though I agree that there is less roaming now compared to Dota/earlier LoL. Roaming does happen, just not necessarily every game.

 

[Einbroch]

Taric, cow and blitz used to roam a lot in the early days.

Which is why it's so tragic the fact that the meta is so entrenched into the game.

Remember back when you had crazy matchups in the lane? Supports carried, ADCs against APs mid, and so on. I'm not saying that having some sort of meta is a bad thing, but with the way it is now, every game is the same and it leads to boring matches.

Playing is totally different, I'm whatever when I'm playing. It's watching that bores me.

Using the warding as an example doesn't really help your point as you do that in LoL, though I agree that there is less roaming now compared to Dota/earlier LoL. Roaming does happen, just not necessarily every game.

Wards are limited and more expensive in Dota due to the global gold being much lower (no gp/10 items/runes/masteries) and the fact that you lose gold upon death, making placing each ward more of a decision.

 

[Leezard]

Wards are limited and more expensive in Dota due to the global gold being much lower (no gp/10 items/runes/masteries) and the fact that you lose gold upon death, making placing each ward more of a decision.

I'd say this is an weakness of supports in Dota compared to supports in LoL.

 

[Wolf Akela]

Taric, cow and blitz used to roam a lot in the early days.

I think part of the problem is that vision is way too easy to achieve now.

 

[Fallen_Hero]

They are making oracles persist through death in the future, though.

 

[Delodax]

The problem is that the game has become way too watered down. The meta is exact. You don't follow the meta, you're likely not going to perform well as a team.

The abilities get nerfed, nerfed, nerfed instead of balanced, balanced, balanced. Dota 2 just got a huge patch where a lot of heroes ultimates are now effected by Scepter, making ho-hum heroes now somewhat competitive. Even if they're still not competitive, now they're fun to play. You hardly ever see a champion get buffed in LoL, and when they do, it's because of a rework.

While they added a few interesting items this season (BotRK with it's use effect, etc), there's still nothing that can make a viewer go "wow". No Blink Dagger, no sheepstick, none of that stuff. It's all in the abilities, and as stated before, these abilities are constantly getting nerfed or are not interesting to begin with.

Support champions in LoL are less effective than in other MOBAs. They're boring to play and are babysitters and ward machines, plain and simple. In Dota, supports are INCREDIBLY strong early game, stronger than carries. The point of a support is to help your carries into late game by being the muscle early. In LoL, it's to make sure your ADC can farm. Exciting.

Dota has its fair share of issues, but I find it infinitely more enjoyable to watch than LoL.

There is a fair share of buffs and nerfs every patch, the major difference is that Riot tries to keep champs within a limited power level, it's just a different approach than DotA.

Furthermore, supports are generally stronger early in LoL as well, if you don't opt to go super defensive farming snoozefest. Theoretically, the support could roam and make some plays but it would likely mean death for the adc. Can be worked around, but the question is if it's worth it for the team in general.

LoL will probably never pay in the same way as DotA. Guess it is about picking your preference. Me for example prefer not to have too many game defining abilities slapped on items, and instead let it be more about the champion abilities.

 

[Boken]

The problem is that the game has become way too watered down. The meta is exact. You don't follow the meta, you're likely not going to perform well as a team.

The abilities get nerfed, nerfed, nerfed instead of balanced, balanced, balanced. Dota 2 just got a huge patch where a lot of heroes ultimates are now effected by Scepter, making ho-hum heroes now somewhat competitive. Even if they're still not competitive, now they're fun to play. You hardly ever see a champion get buffed in LoL, and when they do, it's because of a rework.

While they added a few interesting items this season (BotRK with it's use effect, etc), there's still nothing that can make a viewer go "wow". No Blink Dagger, no sheepstick, none of that stuff. It's all in the abilities, and as stated before, these abilities are constantly getting nerfed or are not interesting to begin with.

Support champions in LoL are less effective than in other MOBAs. They're boring to play and are babysitters and ward machines, plain and simple. In Dota, supports are INCREDIBLY strong early game, stronger than carries. The point of a support is to help your carries into late game by being the muscle early. In LoL, it's to make sure your ADC can farm. Exciting.

Dota has its fair share of issues, but I find it infinitely more enjoyable to watch than LoL.

i find it a little sad that you've bought into dota so much
i also feel like you dont watch pro-dota or pro-lol very much. the reason why something is *the* meta is because it is the best strategy. and tri-lane is very much THE meta in doto. infact, there is as much variance in 1-1-2 and 2v1 games as there are tri lane games and jungler/double duo

its true that items in league are less impactful than in dota, and thats design paradigm - that doesnt mean that there are less clutch moments, because champion skills can still produce key moments

supports ARE stronger than adcs early game in league too, and design intent has moved far far from babysitters like soraka and towards high cc play makers like thresh and nami

----
seriously, its nice than you've found a moba you like, but theres no reason to go into another thread and spout shit like its truth

Taric, cow and blitz used to roam a lot in the early days.

I think part of the problem is that vision is way too easy to achieve now.

they stopped roaming a long time ago
its because lanes are way too unsafe for an adc to 2v1.
roaming worked when people sitll played like pussies in duo lanes

 

[jerd]

What's the state of Kog'Maw as an ADC? I got into a lobby with all roles taken but adc and realized that I have none that I like. I just don't find most carries all that interesting but I've always thought Kog was pretty cool. Graves is another one I'm considering. Thoughts?

 

[Wolf Akela]

They are making oracles persist through death in the future, though.

I think it's nice, but it has a bit of a snowball effect attached to it. You can't make the sweeper lose sight anymore. They added a time limit to reduce the snowball specially because it's always the tank that held it. If you see an oracle Alistar might as well tear your hair out in frustration. Sightstones kinda cushioned losing wards.

---

I think I have a Vayne curse. I kept winning lane, losing game. Top does bad/DCs/RQs, or I have a support who doesn't know how to support. Last game started 3v5, I went solo top against Lee and was winning. Other two teammates come back, I go back bot, go 6/0 with Morgana against Draven+Nid, teamscores are 12-1, then our servers crash! WTF! I got back last and our nexus turrets are down. We lost. Teammate told me most of the enemies reconnected first.

 

[Einbroch]

seriously, its nice than you've found a moba you like, but theres no reason to go into another thread and spout shit like its truth

1200+ games of LoL compared to ~200 of Dota, with 4x the activity on LoL compared to Dota in the last two weeks paints a completely different picture than what you're saying.

All I'm saying is LoL is boring to watch for me. I still prefer playing LoL over Dota because my friends are there and I don't want to learn another MOBA. Dota does some shitty things (lol Arcane Lina skin, UI is fucking awful) but it doesn't mean that both games can't learn from each other. People were talking about the meta so I jumped in with my opinion and how it can improve. Hardly shitting up a thread, but I'll let you all get back to your inside jokes.

Everything you said before that line is completely valid and I see your point, but you ruined it with that little dig. It's called having a different viewpoint. Not everyone has an agenda.

 

[Boken]

Which is why it's so tragic the fact that the meta is so entrenched into the game.

Remember back when you had crazy matchups in the lane? Supports carried, ADCs against APs mid, and so on. I'm not saying that having some sort of meta is a bad thing, but with the way it is now, every game is the same and it leads to boring matches.

Playing is totally different, I'm whatever when I'm playing. It's watching that bores me.



Wards are limited and more expensive in Dota due to the global gold being much lower (no gp/10 items/runes/masteries) and the fact that you lose gold upon death, making placing each ward more of a decision.

that wasnt a meta
people had no idea what was the best way to play

1200+ games of LoL compared to ~200 of Dota, with 4x the activity on LoL compared to Dota in the last two weeks paints a completely different picture than what you're saying.

All I'm saying is LoL is boring to watch for me. I still prefer playing LoL over Dota because my friends are there and I don't want to learn another MOBA. Dota does some shitty things (lol Arcane Lina skin, UI is fucking awful) but it doesn't mean that both games can't learn from each other. People were talking about the meta so I jumped in with my opinion and how it can improve. Hardly shitting up a thread, but I'll let you all get back to your inside jokes.

Everything you said before that line is completely valid and I see your point, but you ruined it with that little dig. It's called having a different viewpoint. Not everyone has an agenda.

i understand what youre saying might be about your experience in lol personally, but you were making points about "viewing" which i can only imagine to be about pro games. so i dont know why youre telling me about how much you've played recently

hence why i think you're wrong about almost everything you said. our discussion about the meta was at the top pro level, so if youre not aware of it or informed then its just meaningless. this isnt an injoke or me making digs at you. you're using your solo queue experience to talk about the pro-metagames of both games. you can have a viewpoint on the metagame, but you have to have to be part of it first

---

if you want to talk about the actual games at the core, then sure we can go ahead - you just didnt make that clear at all.
supports have a tendency to play incredibly passive in normal games and that could be because half of them dont even play support
people dont even play support in low environment doto

 

[kayos90]

What's the state of Kog'Maw as an ADC? I got into a lobby with all roles taken but adc and realized that I have none that I like. I just don't find most carries all that interesting but I've always thought Kog was pretty cool. Graves is another one I'm considering. Thoughts?

Strongest baby of them up but requires superparents for it to work.

 

[scy]

It's less that and more that a lot of what you've said seems to be at the low level of DotA2 games. There's a fairly limited DotA2 meta as well when you get to the pro games. It's not really a case of it being better, just different.

Though, in regards to supports, you should probably see what a mid-to-late game support actually does in a DotA2 game. It's rather tragic.

 

[kayos90]

It's less that and more that a lot of what you've said seems to be at the low level of DotA2 games. There's a fairly limited DotA2 meta as well when you get to the pro games. It's not really a case of it being better, just different.

Though, in regards to supports, you should probably see what a mid-to-late game support actually does in a DotA2 game. It's rather tragic.

I heard it sucks. =D

 

[Einbroch]

Totally sucks.

And I concede your point, Boken. Although I still do not think it is very exciting to watch, I very much understand that the meta is totally a preference and is not the reason I do not like to watch pro matches. Lumping in the meta was incorrect.

Either that, or this season has not had many memorable ones. Maybe that will all change once we get to the final games of the season. We can hope, as pro games from both games (and even garbage like WoW raids) are what I watch at work. Without them, I'm just staring at a boring monitor.

 

[Archie]

Ya'll should play Shadow Demon if you think late game support sucks in Doto.

 

[dimb]

shadow shaman > league supports.

 

[Newt]

What's the state of Kog'Maw as an ADC? I got into a lobby with all roles taken but adc and realized that I have none that I like. I just don't find most carries all that interesting but I've always thought Kog was pretty cool. Graves is another one I'm considering. Thoughts?

Don't play Kog without a pre-made team. You need a lot of protection/peel because you can't really peel yourself. As for Graves, he's strong all around throughout the game. If you're new to adc, I definitely recommend playing Graves as he's one of the easier champs to play.

 

[Leezard]

Ya'll should play Shadow Demon if you think late game support sucks in Doto.

I remember when shadow demon was considered a carry.

Edit : sorry, I was thinking about shadow fiend, unless they changed his name for dota 2.

 

[Boken]

Ya'll should play Shadow Demon if you think late game support sucks in Doto.

Thresh op

 

[scy]

Ya'll should play Shadow Demon if you think late game support sucks in Doto.

It's just that the longer the game goes, the more they're really just there to CC and then give the enemy team some gold. Their strength is still there (since CC is always powerful), it's just that they really do have nothing gold/item wise really.

Many of their kits are still fun.

shadow shaman > league supports.

ward them to death

That's really one of the things DotA2 does do well. Abilities are super mega impactful across the board. Though I still prefer scaling skills (and the pacing of LoL) in general.

Edit: Oh right, voice work. The voice work is really well done just in terms of all the shit they say. LoL will probably eventually get there but it has a lot of old champions to rework to get to that point.

 

[Boken]

Some people complain that riot just nerf

Other people complain about power creep in leeg

These two groups need to get together and make perfectly balanced babies

 

[scy]

Some people complain that riot just nerf

It's really just a case of people complaining that their favorite champion (/favorite FotM) gets nerfed and ignores that patches are almost 50-50 on buffs/nerfs.

 

[kayos90]

I hope they give Akali a legendary skin with a buff. That'd be the best. =D

 

[bjaelke]

They are making oracles persist through death in the future, though.

Speaking of oracle's, someone on my team kept buying it to counter Eve....

 

[dimb]

but there is power creep.

 

[garath]

Speaking of oracle's, someone on my team kept buying it to counter Eve....

Now it will persist after Eve kills them.

 

[Archie]

It's just that the longer the game goes, the more they're really just there to CC and then give the enemy team some gold. Their strength is still there (since CC is always powerful), it's just that they really do have nothing gold/item wise really.

Many of their kits are still fun.

Wot? There are items that are useful early (Urn, Medallion, Arcanes) mid (Mek, Pipe) and late (Eul's, Atos, Ghost, Heaven's Halberd) game

Supports in Doto transition from early game powerhouses to mid/late game utility characters.

 

[Wolf Akela]

Speaking of oracle's, someone on my team kept buying it to counter Eve....

Old habits die hard.

Or maybe they're still reading some Mobafire guide from years ago.

 

[Newt]

I hope they give Akali a legendary skin with a buff. That'd be the best. =D

Sarcasm?

 

[scy]

Wot? There are items that are useful early (Urn, Medallion, Arcanes) mid (Mek, Pipe) and late (Eul's, Atos, Ghost, Heaven's Halberd) game

Supports in Doto transition from early game powerhouses to mid/late game utility characters.

Having one or two items doesn't really mean much. But, yes, I shouldn't have said "nothing." There are still good/great utility items for Supports. I was just making the point of them being that much more gold starved in DotA2 than in LoL.

 

[bjaelke]

Looks like the EU scene finally have a couple of good AD carries with Creaton and Freeze + Rekkles when he joins.

Old habits die hard.

Or maybe they're still reading some Mobafire guide from years ago.

We were constantly telling him/her it wouldn't work.

 

[Edwardo]

I still prefer playing LoL over Dota because my friends are there

Thats why I made the switch to LoL a little while ago. I played the original dota for years and years. Then started with dota 2 last year for about six months. At the same time some of my rl buddies started playing LoL. I bounced back and forth between both games for a couple months, and then decided it would be just LoL. I thought my experience with dota would give me a big advantage when I started league. I knew the moba basics, but im still learning so many things.

 

[brian!]

i just play league and dota at the same time

 

[zkylon]

I just play front mission

waifus, mechs, turn based stuff

so relaxing...

What's the state of Kog'Maw as an ADC? I got into a lobby with all roles taken but adc and realized that I have none that I like. I just don't find most carries all that interesting but I've always thought Kog was pretty cool. Graves is another one I'm considering. Thoughts?

never pick kog in solo queue. he's strong but no escapes and no peel will make you dead really fast

graves on the other hand is pretty great on most situations, short range but really strong laning phase against pretty much everyone but caitlyn (I could be missing someone else), and weaker late game but still decent. also really fun to play as an ad caster, just rush bt+lw and blow up squishies in one combo.

 

[Edwardo]

graves on the other hand is pretty great on most situations, short range but really strong laning phase against pretty much everyone but caitlyn (I could be missing someone else), and weaker late game but still decent. also really fun to play as an ad caster, just rush bt+lw and blow up squishies in one combo.

No idea what im doing wrong, but whenever I try Graves I feel like I do no damage.

 

[Amakusa]

We need a new thread title.

League of Legends |OT4| You can't milk those

My vote

 

[Tomas]

We need a new thread title.

League of Legends |OT4| You can't milk those

My vote

League of Legends |OT4| ヽ( ͝° ͜ʖ͡°)ﾉ ʀub ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴅᴏɴɢᴇʀsヽ( ͝° ͜ʖ͡°)ﾉ
League of Legends |OT4| ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ ʀᴀɪsᴇ ᴜʀ ᴅᴏɴɢᴇʀs ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
League of Legends |OT4|(ง'̀-'&#769ง ＤＯＮＧ ＯＲ ＤＩＥ (ง'̀-'&#769ง

It has to be one of those!

As for meta. There is a ton of team compositions and plans: Poke, AoE, Assassins, Split-Push, Protect Hyper-Carry, Pick, Tower Push. It is too bad that in soloq it is very unlikely to co-ordinate something spectacular.

 

[Kane Zakharov]

No idea what im doing wrong, but whenever I try Graves I feel like I do no damage.

Less auto attacking, more bursting!

 

[Pancakes]

but there is power creep.

I feel like it's more mobility creep (jumps, dashes, escapes) than anything.

 

[Einbroch]

the fuck is a dongar