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Learning Japanese |OT| ..honor and shame are huge parts of it. Let's!

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
can you please point exactly where i 'trumpeted' an 'absurd' statement.. i have a feeling i just triggered the lifer that has become one of them
 

Resilient

Member
sad that the thread reverted back to this, compared to last years glory days, right now it is basically a dead corpse giving out some left over fart. for the new learners sake I hope it returns to where it was last year. glhf.
 

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
why are you talking to yourself on an online forum
 

Oare

Member
can you please point exactly where i 'trumpeted' an 'absurd' statement.. i have a feeling i just triggered the lifer that has become one of them

Previous page. Something to the effect of "nobody give a flying fuck".

I'm beginning to get the impression you're bit of a hack. Or just a troll.
 

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Previous page. Something to the effect of "nobody give a flying fuck".

I'm beginning to get the impression you're bit of a hack. Or just a troll.

hm, here is my post:

we've identified a weakness of my method then.. except we dont give a flying get fuck about radical names

which clearly says, we - as in anyone who takes part in my kanji study method - does not care about names of radicals since we are brute force memorizing kanji

so.. how does this barely 2 sentence post = trumpteting
..and where does it say nobody, as in people outside of the maybe 10 people we are talking about within this thread, cares about radical names

i think youve been here so long youve forgotten how to understand context, because if this tiny post triggered you into making you come out of your shell to post here now more than youve ever posted in 4 years.. what can i say, i hit a nerve
 

Oare

Member
which clearly says, we - as in anyone who takes part in my kanji study method

Well, I apologize, then. I took this "we" to mean a universal "we". Hence my replies.
One question, however: why didn't you say so earlier? I would think my misunderstanding seemed rather clear, didn't it?

If you've got your own method for learning kanjis, good for you. I usually don't read this thread because I don't feel like explaining stuff about Japanese to new learners. I used to do it twelve years ago; at the time I was getting a kick out of it because it helped me solidify certain things and conceptualize others that I only understood instinctively. But it's very time consuming and not very rewarding (sorry guys).

As for the "hitting a nerve part"... Well, no. I don't give a shit about the radical names, they're just a tool I happen to use when communicating with people. It's just the way I read your message that made me think: "wait... what is this dude talking about?!"
Last time I came here, some poster was basically explaining they became a translator without even being able to read kanjis properly, and stating they were doing interpreting gigs with no preparation or preliminary research. That didn't help.

Also, I'm just not a prolific poster, it took me over 4 years to graduate from Junior.
 

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
which is why i called you out. you randomly came in the thread acting exactly like the cocky shithead you described in an earlier post (and again just confirmed that youre too n1 to have a reason to participate in this thread) to take a quick jab at someone..and it happened to be your senpai

big mistake, little kouhai
 

Oare

Member
you randomly came in the thread a to take a quick jab at someone

OK, my turn.
Where exactly did I take a jab at "someone"?

Do you mean the "arrogant, unfriendly and conceited" part, maybe?
Show me one single message where you aren't at least two of the three.

But he's pretty much always right so *shrugs*

Well, he does at least seem to lack some pretty basic knowledge, so you might want to rethink that and consider the fact he might more than once have just thrown giant smoke screens.
Sometimes it can be hard to distinguish between a sphincter and a larynx.
 

Aizo

Banned
Oare, if you're not here to help anyone learn Japanese, then I don't think your posts are being very helpful. Please stop the argument.
 
Let's talk about the thing where I'm reading Japanese smoothly and then a random sentence makes me go "WTF is this shit?"

I need to learn2grammar ;(
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
I can't believe it's been more than 5 years since I passed JLPT N1. If I took the test today I'd probably fail lol. Good luck to everyone doing the test in December.

What? Why? Did you just stop using the language for some reason?

yes, i knew this.. ive known this for years.. but the reason most foreigners know it is because of the akb48 song

I remember the day I learned this word. It was two days or so before the official launch of Blue Dragon in Japan and I was browsing 2ch when I found a thread about someone getting a copy early. I actually went out to the shop the poster mentioned and bought an early copy for myself.

I simply don't see how anyone could live in Japan, using Japanese as their main language for communication, and not a single time come across words like にんべん or さんずい.
Regardless of their job.

While にんべん and さんずい are indeed incredibly common and it may be hard to believe for those of us who actually enjoy studying the language and learning about it, I have run into native speakers who not only would not know what you meant if you said にんべん or さんずい, but also be completely unfamiliar with the concept of 部首 or radicals in general. I imagine they all covered it multiple times in school, but they either never learned it or completely forgot about it. I'm not saying these people are common in any way, but I could easily see how someone could get through life without ever needing to describe the components of an individual Kanji. I mean, even when describing how to write a name, for example, I personally find that it's very common for people to just say something like "佐賀県の「さ」に藤原の「ふじ」と書いて、佐藤です。" or whatever.

The only value of the JLPT is to give you one more source of motivation to work on your Japanese in a timely fashion.

N1 is useful in much the same way the TOEIC is useful for non-native speakers of English: you kinda need it, but it won't open any doors for you.

I definitely needed it when I studied abroad, since I wanted to take regular Japanese university courses. It may not open any doors by itself, but its absence might close certain doors.
 

Sakura

Member
Got my N2 results today...
14750irs12.jpg
I dunno it was pretty easy.
My teacher wants me to take the N1 but I'm not sure I understand the point. My plan is to go to a Japanese University, and like the vast majority of the ones I look at want EJU scores not JLPT scores, and if they do want JLPT then it's N2 or sometimes N3.
 

JimPanzer

Member
Can anyone recommend me some good books which approach the language from a Linguistic point of view like Ray Andrew Miller's "The Japanese Language"?
I also really liked "Making sense of Japanese - What the textbooks don't tell you".
 
Hey guys!

I'm starting a Japanese class at university tomorrow. We're going through Genki I.

I have some experience with learning hiragana and katakana, but not much more than that. I just wanted to say hi, as I'll be lurking this thread more.

Any good suggestions for supplemental studying material along with Genki?
 
So there's been a sentence from September 6th's Pokemon trailer that's been bugging me since it's, like, the only sentence I don't really understand. For context, it's from a punk who works for the evil team and keeps on wanting to battle you in order to strengthen up his partner mon.

かるく みられて いいなら
せいぜい さわがしくしてな

My best guess is "It's fine if I'm not taken seriously; at most it'll just be a nuisance." But I'm not very confident in it.

I guess it's mainly the... I think passive form? combined with ていいなら that is tripping me up. I don't think I've ever seen that combination of things before. The other te-form at the end is also kinda messing with me too I guess.
 
So there's been a sentence from September 6th's Pokemon trailer that's been bugging me since it's, like, the only sentence I don't really understand. For context, it's from a punk who works for the evil team and keeps on wanting to battle you in order to strengthen up his partner mon.

かるく みられて いいなら
せいぜい さわがしくしてな

My best guess is "It's fine if I'm not taken seriously; at most it'll just be a nuisance." But I'm not very confident in it.

I guess it's mainly the... I think passive form? combined with ていいなら that is tripping me up. I don't think I've ever seen that combination of things before. The other te-form at the end is also kinda messing with me too I guess.

Well, first he's addressing you (the player)....I think. Can you post the trailer?

My gut tells me the dude's just being super condescending, and the "せいぜい" is more like "as much as you can". So something like "If you're fine with being taken lightly, just act up as much as you can" or "just make as much noise as you can".

I guess it could also be like "at best you can cause a ruckus" too.....since he's being condescending.

Idk, post the trailer haha.
 
Can't copy&paste on the 2ds I'm using atm (this browser's trash). But it's just a random shot of him saying that. He clearly is talking to the player, though.

That makes a lot more sense though, thanks!
 

Torraz

Member
So according to the JEES online portal I BARELY passed the JLPT N2 with 95 of 180 points.

Low 40s low 20s and low 30s as scores.

It's probably better to revise N2 first instead of trying N1 in december of this year. Even next July for N1 might be slightly optimistic?

Thanks!
 

Sage00

Once And Future Member
So according to the JEES online portal I BARELY passed the JLPT N2 with 95 of 180 points.

Low 40s low 20s and low 30s as scores.

It's probably better to revise N2 first instead of trying N1 in december of this year. Even next July for N1 might be slightly optimistic?

Thanks!
Don't see the point on seperating things into 'study for N1' and 'study for N2.' Learning N1-specific grammar you can do fairly quickly easily from one of the books. Then just practice N1 level reading while learning / reviewing words that are both N1 and 2 (40% of this is the same anyway). Take the test every time it comes up - no reason not to and don't worry about passing.
 

Piichan

Banned
What? Why? Did you just stop using the language for some reason?

No, I work and live in Japan and use Japanese everyday. It's just I don't ever use the JLPT N1 vocab I learned then anymore. To be fair, when I studied and took N1, it seemed like a lot of the language is stuff that your average Japanese person would rarely use either.

So according to the JEES online portal I BARELY passed the JLPT N2 with 95 of 180 points.

Low 40s low 20s and low 30s as scores.

It's probably better to revise N2 first instead of trying N1 in december of this year. Even next July for N1 might be slightly optimistic?

Thanks!
Why not try for N1 anyway? If your end goal is getting N1, failing N1 will teach you much more than passing N2. And who knows, maybe you'll pass for N1.
 

Sakura

Member
So according to the JEES online portal I BARELY passed the JLPT N2 with 95 of 180 points.

Low 40s low 20s and low 30s as scores.

It's probably better to revise N2 first instead of trying N1 in december of this year. Even next July for N1 might be slightly optimistic?

Thanks!

I don't see much point in doing N2 again. Just take the N1 in December. If you fail... well you were going to take it again next year anyway right? Honestly I don't find the N2 and N1 hugely different.
Just study for the N1.
 

JimPanzer

Member
Could someone help me translate this sentence from the Tobira textbook:

その上、日本のマンガは欧米人の本の読み方さえを変えようとしている。

I don't think there's much context needed. I would say translate it as someting like that: "Above that, Manga is even changing the way Americans and Europeans read books." What throws me of is the is the volitional form of 変える+としている. I mean I know this can mean "try to do something" but that doesn't really make sense, or?
 
Could someone help me translate this sentence from the Tobira textbook:

その上、日本のマンガは欧米人の本の読み方さえを変えようとしている。

I don't think there's much context needed. I would say translate it as someting like that: "Above that, Manga is even changing the way Americans and Europeans read books." What throws me of is the is the volitional form of 変える+としている. I mean I know this can mean "try to do something" but that doesn't really make sense, or?

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/complete/appearance
 

Alanae

Member
So there's been a sentence from September 6th's Pokemon trailer that's been bugging me since it's, like, the only sentence I don't really understand. For context, it's from a punk who works for the evil team and keeps on wanting to battle you in order to strengthen up his partner mon.

かるく みられて いいなら
せいぜい さわがしくしてな

My best guess is "It's fine if I'm not taken seriously; at most it'll just be a nuisance." But I'm not very confident in it.

I guess it's mainly the... I think passive form? combined with ていいなら that is tripping me up. I don't think I've ever seen that combination of things before. The other te-form at the end is also kinda messing with me too I guess.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR1ssSZfoGY 2:20 in this right?
I think the tricky part of this line is that the character is actually talking to himself, probably repeating something somebody told him at some point, you left out the ....... after the な which might have made it harder to notice.
The line would probably be something like " 'If you're okay with being looked down on, then do your best at causing a ruckus', eh..."
With virtually no context I can't be particularly sure on the translation, however.

Could someone help me translate this sentence from the Tobira textbook:

その上、日本のマンガは欧米人の本の読み方さえを変えようとしている。

I don't think there's much context needed. I would say translate it as someting like that: "Above that, Manga is even changing the way Americans and Europeans read books." What throws me of is the is the volitional form of 変える+としている. I mean I know this can mean "try to do something" but that doesn't really make sense, or?
-ようとしてる can come down to two things really,
currently trying to do something
or
something is about to happen.

In this case I think its more likely to be the former.
"Furthermore, Japanese manga is trying to change even the way that people in the west read books"
I assume this is referring to how translated manga also is read from right to left.
 
ようとする can also mean "about to" I believe. So "In addition, Japan's manga is even about to change the way Westerners read books" could possibly be it. But don't quote me on this lol

EDIT: Or that. Boom.

And yeah that's the trailer, thanks.
 
Heya JapanGAF. First time poster in the topic, have been learning the language for about a year now.

Studying for an exam at the moment, I came across this sentence:

仕事の後、買い物をして、急いで帰ります。

Can someone possibly help me what the bolded is gramatically? 急ぐ is the verb obviously but I've never seen it written this way before. As far as I can tell the meaning would be something like "After work, I'll go shopping and hurry back home afterwards".
 
急いで is its te-form but it also has a use as a set expression meaning "hurriedly" and the like.

So you're pretty much right.
 
急いで is its te-form but it also has a use as a set expression meaning "hurriedly" and the like.

So you're pretty much right.

Yeah, the te-form crossed my mind as it fits the conjugation (ぐ-->いで) but its placement in the sentence bothered me. Thank you :)
 
So something I started doing this year was keeping a handwritten journal/diary in Japanese. In order to incentivize it a bit, I spent a bit of money to get a Hobonichi Techo (that's 手帳, or てちょう - not てこ) with a nifty Mother 2 (Earthbound) cover and some decent pens and stuff. It started off pretty strong in January and February with daily entries, tapered off through March and then had an extremely shameful dry spell from April through mid-August. I was absurdly busy during that time and instead of chronicling it, I just got lazy and didn't feel up to writing it all down. I'm really regretting it now, and I've committed to writing something down each day for the rest of the year - for real this time. I take it with me everywhere I go and jot a few words down whenever I have a gap in my day.

I bring this up because I thought that some other people might be interested in doing something similar, and the 2017 Hobonichi Techos just went up for sale (English store || Japanese store). They're great little journals/day-planners with a ton of neat design features, plus they come with a little quotation or excerpt from something each day written in Japanese. We've got a thread for the planners on GAF, and it links to last year's (which links to 2015's) so you can take a look at why they're neat and what people do with them.

If you've never journaled in Japanese before, it's definitely worth doing. It's a great way to practice organizing your thoughts and forming nicer sentences, practice casual form and language that you don't get a chance to use in polite conversation, and generally just fool around with the language. If, like me, you've tried in the past and stalled out, perhaps the fact that you have this nifty little planner with nifty little tools that you spent a moderate sum on will motivate you to make more use of it. Or at the very least make you feel that much guiltier if you don't (again, like me).
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR1ssSZfoGY 2:20 in this right?
I think the tricky part of this line is that the character is actually talking to himself, probably repeating something somebody told him at some point, you left out the ....... after the な which might have made it harder to notice.
The line would probably be something like " 'If you're okay with being looked down on, then do your best at causing a ruckus', eh..."
With virtually no context I can't be particularly sure on the translation, however.
Oh cool, Chinese trailer's out with this same scene. Here's their localization:
要是不在乎被人看不起的話,你們就繼續胡鬧下去吧......
Seems to be something like "'If you don't care about being looked down on by people, then you should go on at once and continue to make a scene!', right......" so I'd reckon you're right because he does seem to be repeating orders here. Thanks!
 

urfe

Member
So something I started doing this year was keeping a handwritten journal/diary in Japanese. In order to incentivize it a bit, I spent a bit of money to get a Hobonichi Techo (that's 手帳, or てちょう - not てこ) with a nifty Mother 2 (Earthbound) cover and some decent pens and stuff. It started off pretty strong in January and February with daily entries, tapered off through March and then had an extremely shameful dry spell from April through mid-August. I was absurdly busy during that time and instead of chronicling it, I just got lazy and didn't feel up to writing it all down. I'm really regretting it now, and I've committed to writing something down each day for the rest of the year - for real this time. I take it with me everywhere I go and jot a few words down whenever I have a gap in my day.

I bring this up because I thought that some other people might be interested in doing something similar, and the 2017 Hobonichi Techos just went up for sale (English store || Japanese store). They're great little journals/day-planners with a ton of neat design features, plus they come with a little quotation or excerpt from something each day written in Japanese. We've got a thread for the planners on GAF, and it links to last year's (which links to 2015's) so you can take a look at why they're neat and what people do with them.

If you've never journaled in Japanese before, it's definitely worth doing. It's a great way to practice organizing your thoughts and forming nicer sentences, practice casual form and language that you don't get a chance to use in polite conversation, and generally just fool around with the language. If, like me, you've tried in the past and stalled out, perhaps the fact that you have this nifty little planner with nifty little tools that you spent a moderate sum on will motivate you to make more use of it. Or at the very least make you feel that much guiltier if you don't (again, like me).

Nice. I have one as well (with the Mother 2 cast on it), and I use it for work.

I'm usually just writing what I need to do each day in it, and I mainly write that in English, but I still love it.

I do get weird looks in meetings though. Ah well.
 

JimPanzer

Member
So something I started doing this year was keeping a handwritten journal/diary in Japanese. In order to incentivize it a bit, I spent a bit of money to get a Hobonichi Techo (that's 手帳, or てちょう - not てこ) with a nifty Mother 2 (Earthbound) cover and some decent pens and stuff. It started off pretty strong in January and February with daily entries, tapered off through March and then had an extremely shameful dry spell from April through mid-August. I was absurdly busy during that time and instead of chronicling it, I just got lazy and didn't feel up to writing it all down. I'm really regretting it now, and I've committed to writing something down each day for the rest of the year - for real this time. I take it with me everywhere I go and jot a few words down whenever I have a gap in my day.

I bring this up because I thought that some other people might be interested in doing something similar, and the 2017 Hobonichi Techos just went up for sale (English store || Japanese store). They're great little journals/day-planners with a ton of neat design features, plus they come with a little quotation or excerpt from something each day written in Japanese. We've got a thread for the planners on GAF, and it links to last year's (which links to 2015's) so you can take a look at why they're neat and what people do with them.

If you've never journaled in Japanese before, it's definitely worth doing. It's a great way to practice organizing your thoughts and forming nicer sentences, practice casual form and language that you don't get a chance to use in polite conversation, and generally just fool around with the language. If, like me, you've tried in the past and stalled out, perhaps the fact that you have this nifty little planner with nifty little tools that you spent a moderate sum on will motivate you to make more use of it. Or at the very least make you feel that much guiltier if you don't (again, like me).

nice, definitely getting one of these for christmas! I'm a sucker for neat notbooks.
 

Nightbird

Member
Minna ohayou gozaimasu!

I just saw this Thread on the first page of OT, and it couldn't have come at any better time since I recently decided to refresh my Japanese and continue learning it.

I've decided to begin from the very basics, so I am currently learning Hiragana again, but looking at the OP, there seem to be a lot of tools I can use.

I'm glad that we have a Thread dedicated to learning Japanese ^^
 
I understand that there are different ways but can someone explain how exactly you are supposed to go about learning vocab/kanji.

I've been studying Korean for a bit now and I just started learning Japanese so I'll be studying both at the same time (Right now I'll be focusing about 75% Japanese and 25% on Korean and I'll be switching back again next year).

I'm having a bit of trouble understanding how learning vocab is supposed to work with the kanji. Should I be learning vocab directly just with Hira/Katagana like I would in Korean or Spanish etc? Then when do I learn the kanji version, can I do it at the same time? Am I supposed to learn vocab as Kanji and just use Hiragana to know how to pronounce them?

What does it really mean when you "learn the 2000 kanji" via Kodanshi/RTK/WaniKani/blablabla? I still don't know the vocab so what do I actually use those kanji I "know" for? (Not doubting, just don't actually know)

Whats the most efficient way to do this. Someone ELI5 please/thanks.
 
I'm having a bit of trouble understanding how learning vocab is supposed to work with the kanji. Should I be learning vocab directly just with Hira/Katagana like I would in Korean or Spanish etc? Then when do I learn the kanji version, can I do it at the same time? Am I supposed to learn vocab as Kanji and just use Hiragana to know how to pronounce them?

What does it really mean when you "learn the 2000 kanji" via Kodanshi/RTK/WaniKani/blablabla? I still don't know the vocab so what do I actually use those kanji I "know" for? (Not doubting, just don't actually know)

Most classroom settings will teach new vocabulary as spoken words, writing them out in handouts and such with kanji and furigana, while expecting things written by students to be written in hiragana and "basic" kanji that have already been "learned". Obviously the hiragana/spoken sounds are essential for "knowing" a word, while the kanji will help in reading it. You need both eventually, but the pronunciation is more important, especially early on. A classroom setting is ideal for this, as you get repeated exposure to the vocabulary that you're learning in both spoken and written contexts.

When it comes to acquiring vocabulary outside of a classroom or textbook, you'll generally want to tackle new words from both sides. Don't just go from kanji to English, go from kanji to kana as well. On the other side, go from English to kana, and then practice writing it in kanji afterwards. Your goal is to tie the meaning of the word to both the sounds and the characters, and tie the characters to their sounds and the meanings they hold.

As for kanji learning, an enormous number of learners make the mistake of thinking that "learning" a kanji means associating it with a keyword or meaning in English, which is the RTK methodology, as well as a significant portion of the Kodansha and WaniKani methods. As you seem to have realized, this is an essentially useless metric, as it doesn't actually enable you to read Japanese texts in any real capacity, simply recognize the symbols and have a vague idea of what they might mean.

Having truly "learned" a kanji varies greatly depending on the methodology one uses. For me, "knowing" a kanji means being able to recognize it, knowing a handful of words that use it, and being able to associate it with those words to guess at its meaning when I come across it in new contexts. I personally feel that I "know" about 1800 or so characters, but I'll often be unsure of the pronunciation of a character if I haven't read it in a while (this happens less and less the more I read, though). There are another 500 or so characters that I recognize in a much more vague sense, enough that I can read things that include them and work my way through based on context (unless they make up a significant percentage of the core words of a given sentence), but which if I were to take any shot at reading aloud or translating I would need to look up in a dictionary. With this level of knowlege I'm able to cruise through most video games, newspaper articles, and essays targeted at "laypersons," though more difficult novels still give me trouble from time to time.
 

Rnr1224

Member
Hey Everyone! Has anyone used any audio resources while walking to and from places? I walk about 20 mins to work and want to use that time to listen to something that could help me learn. Anyone have experience doing something like this?
 
Hi everyone. What's a great book/resource to study N3 and/or above grammar?

An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese is good.

Also, check Nihongo no Mori's videos on youtube. They have grammar series for all levels of JLPT. I will warn that above N5 their explanation of grammar points are given in Japanese, though. That may sound difficult, but you should give it a try since you'll learn grammar while also building listening comprehension, since you're studying N3 anyways I doubt you'll have much trouble getting used to it.
 

Skinpop

Member
decided to start reviewing kanji again after a break for a few months and so I fired up memrise and wtf is happening? It's complete shit now. they ruined everything that was decent about the app and made it into the candy crush edition. hugely disappointing. any decent alternatives around with the same functionality?
 
Hey, guys!
My first post here and hopefully not the last.
I've been studying hiragana these past two days and got a good chunk memorized? Should I study hiragana everyday or should I just not worry about it too much?
 

Jintor

Member
Hey, guys!
My first post here and hopefully not the last.
I've been studying hiragana these past two days and got a good chunk memorized? Should I study hiragana everyday or should I just not worry about it too much?

blast through hiragana and katana so you can actually start studying grammar and the like without having to look up everything (besides kanji which you'll spend a lifetime doing)

decided to start reviewing kanji again after a break for a few months and so I fired up memrise and wtf is happening? It's complete shit now. they ruined everything that was decent about the app and made it into the candy crush edition. hugely disappointing. any decent alternatives around with the same functionality?

I advise read things in context and add manually to an anki deck to keep things in the forefront of your mind. No gamification bells and whistles but I think it's more effective
 
Hey, guys!
My first post here and hopefully not the last.
I've been studying hiragana these past two days and got a good chunk memorized? Should I study hiragana everyday or should I just not worry about it too much?
Hiragana is the language's ABCs. I'd take one to two weeks to get reading and writing hiragana and katakana down pat. It'll feel good no longer having to rely on the alphabet and months from now you'll laugh that you once spelled it "ohayou gozaimasu" instead of "おはようございます".
 
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