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[I'm an expert]

Give me a few more days to get all set up here and then I'll make a pass through the last two pages and see if I can get together a mini-guide to answer some of the usual questions, as well as starting some type of regular JLPT discussion for the upcoming one. I'll have a lot more free time soon.

 

[Hypron]

So I switched from learning 15 Kanji every 3-5 days (i.e. when I finished a Genki chapter) to learning 25 kanji a day about 5 days ago.

I haven't received that Kodansha book yet so I'm just going through the Genki 2 Kanji at the moment. Rewriting everything every day is pretty time consuming, but only because of the words from the last 2 days. Those ~140 words take about as long as the previous 500. After 3/4 days I can just blast through them though, which is nice.

I also started preparing for when the number of words on my vocabulary list will become unmanageable (I'll see how I go but I'm not sure I'll be able to handle more than about 1,500-2,000/day simply because I don't have enough time).

I made a script that creates a vocabulary list for me. I can set the maximum number of words to put in the list, and the script chooses those words so that I'll revise every single Kanji I've already learnt. It's also doing some optimisation in order to favour words learnt recently over those learnt ages ago. Those mathematical modelling classes are finally coming in handy...

 

[DukeLongfellow]

I made a script that creates a vocabulary list for me. I can set the maximum number of words to put in the list, and the script chooses those words so that I'll revise every single Kanji I've already learnt. It's also doing some optimisation in order to favour words learnt recently over those learnt ages ago. Those mathematical modelling classes are finally coming in handy...

You can use Anki though. It's pretty much what you're describing but has a focus on long term memory retention.

 

[JimPanzer]

Give me a few more days to get all set up here and then I'll make a pass through the last two pages and see if I can get together a mini-guide to answer some of the usual questions, as well as starting some type of regular JLPT discussion for the upcoming one. I'll have a lot more free time soon.

Looking forward to it! Unfortunately I missed the signup period for N3 by a couple of days, because I had other things in life going on :/ Not sure if I should go for N2 come next summer, if I never ever been to a JLPT before.

Also, I'm almost finished with the tobira textbook...what should I tackle next? I prefer textbooks without dumb classroom activities. Just want a reading section, the grammar points explained, some examples and maybe some sentence I have to complete on my own.

 

[Hypron]

You can use Anki though. It's pretty much what you're describing but has a focus on long term memory retention.

I'm following that brute force method described in the OP for the Kanji. The basic idea I had starting out was to follow it to the letter, but since that's physically impossible for me (i.e. even if every Kanji came to mind immediately I still wouldn't be writing fast enough), I came up with this method to keep reviewing all the Kanji while trying to stick to the method as closely as possible.

I'm also using Anki for about ~45 min every day, going through a pre-made Genki deck and one of my own where I add words as I go along.

It's true that putting all the words in Anki and using that instead (while still maintaining the 25 kanji / 75 vocab words a day rate, and still writing everything on a whiteboard) could work. According to an "anki simulator" script I found online, the SRS would plateau at about 900-1,000 reviews per day, which should be feasible.

Going through those reviews would take longer than going through a fixed list of the same length though, since you wouldn't get used to the word order. Although, it would probably be better for actually memorising them long term, plus you could keep on reviewing them (at a slower rate) after you reach the end of the 2,300 Kanji... But writing every word at least once a day for at least 30 days in a row would also burn them in your memory pretty well.

I don't know, I'll have to think about it. I'll have to take a short break from adding new Kanji once I finish the ones in Genki since I'll need to match them with those in Kodansha (they are ordered a bit differently), figure out which Kanji I missed and which associated vocabulary words differ, which could take a few days. I'll use that time to weigh my options.

 

[MaximumSpider]

My first Japanese for busy people book came today! Too bad I won't be able to get into it tonight...

 

[entremet]

I took Japanese in college but I'm so so rusty now in my 30s.

This thread inspired me to give it another try. Luckily, my pronunciation kana skills are still there.

General fluency and kanji are my big hurdles.

Where do I start?

 

[Nakho]

Are there Nihongo Challenge Bunpo to Yomu books for N3-N1? Couldn't find it anywhere on the internet, even though I remember Resilient talk about using them all the way to N1.

 

[_Ryo_]

This is a weird question but is there an Android app.where you learn kanji through photos/pictures/illustrations? Most times when I try to study a kanji the English meaning pops up in mind head, which is exacerbated by the fact that all the definitions of the kanji are in English as well. Also, I'm a visual learner...

Basically I need something like KanjiSenpai but with pictures, lol.

 

[TheSporkWithin]

Are there Nihongo Challenge Bunpo to Yomu books for N3-N1? Couldn't find it anywhere on the internet, even though I remember Resilient talk about using them all the way to N1.

The 日本語総まとめ books are made by the same publisher, but split up into more separate volumes. I'm of the opinion that the 新完全マスター series is quite a bit better, however.

Where do I start?

Start drilling kanji and review your grammar while you're at it. Find a JLPT study book with drill questions and see how you do. Work your way through one of your old textbooks and challenge yourself to use the grammar and make sentences in patterns. Not knowing how far you had progressed and how much (if any) you've retained makes it difficult to give any specific advice.

This is a weird question but is there an Android app.where you learn kanji through photos/pictures/illustrations? Most times when I try to study a kanji the English meaning pops up in mind head, which is exacerbated by the fact that all the definitions of the kanji are in English as well. Also, I'm a visual learner...

Basically I need something like KanjiSenpai but with pictures, lol.

Don't attach kanji to English words. Don't attach them to pictures either. Attach them to Japanese words. 切 isn't "cut," it's 「きる」の「き」and 「たいせつ」の「せつ」. 望 isn't "hope," it's 「きぼう」の「ぼう」and 「のぞむ」の「のぞ」

 

[MogCakes]

Tonight marks my first forays into learning the language proper, so...here we go. I might post some stuff for feedback from time to time, if that's alright within this thread.

 

[Hypron]

I'm finishing the last Genki II kanji tonight. That's ~310 kanji and 900 words using those kanji. Still a long way to go, but I'm starting to recognise more and more kanji when looking at Japanese text (or even a few in Chinese text on food packaging haha).

After reflecting about it a bit I'm thinking of progressively switching to Anki for the kanji (but I'll still write them down when revising). I need to manage my time better to make progress so instead of reviewing/learning X/kanji per day, I'll switch to doing something like 1 hr of general vocab revision, 2.5 hrs of Kanji revision, 1 hr learning new Kanji, 1hr of grammar revision and 30 min learning new grammar. Or something along those lines.

At the moment I'm not spending enough time on grammar because I'm spending all my free time on kanji. Setting strict time constraints should make it easier to fit everything into my free time.

I'll probably request a temporary ban soon in order to avoid procrastinating.

 

[Branduil]

Don't attach kanji to English words. Don't attach them to pictures either. Attach them to Japanese words. 切 isn't "cut," it's 「きる」の「き」and 「たいせつ」の「せつ」. 望 isn't "hope," it's 「きぼう」の「ぼう」and 「のぞむ」の「のぞ」

Even if you don't put any English in flash cards, you're still going to end up translating them to something in your head. There's no way to really avoid it at first. You have to relate the meaning to something you already know.

I agree that pictograms are a bad idea though.

 

[TheSporkWithin]

Even if you don't put any English in flash cards, you're still going to end up translating them to something in your head. There's no way to really avoid it at first. You have to relate the meaning to something you already know.

I agree that pictograms are a bad idea though.

So learn the vocabulary words separately, and affix the kanji to those Japanese words, as I said. If you translate the word, that's fine, but the kanji should only ever be viewed as part of a word.

 

[_Ryo_]

The 日本語総まとめ books are made by the same publisher, but split up into more separate volumes. I'm of the opinion that the 新完全マスター series is quite a bit better, however.


Start drilling kanji and review your grammar while you're at it. Find a JLPT study book with drill questions and see how you do. Work your way through one of your old textbooks and challenge yourself to use the grammar and make sentences in patterns. Not knowing how far you had progressed and how much (if any) you've retained makes it difficult to give any specific advice.


Don't attach kanji to English words. Don't attach them to pictures either. Attach them to Japanese words. 切 isn't "cut," it's 「きる」の「き」and 「たいせつ」の「せつ」. 望 isn't "hope," it's 「きぼう」の「ぼう」and 「のぞむ」の「のぞ」

I understand this and ultimately it's what I've been trying to achieve. But okay, for example take someone who knows zero kanji and tell them that 天使　means「てんし」and nothing else. That's not really saying anything, so what if itdoesn't mean Angel, it means「てんし」 how do you go about defining words without associating them with anything? And in any case everyone learns differently. I think my suggestion would be pretty helpful to the way I learn, personally, no offense.

 

[kingslunk]

I've started learning Japanese and I've learned hiragana but I'm trying to improve my reading skills without having to think of what the symbol is. Any tips? I want to just easily see a symbol and know what it is. Should I just start moving onto grammar and vocab to speed the process up?

 

[JimPanzer]

I understand this and ultimately it's what I've been trying to achieve. But okay, for example take someone who knows zero kanji and tell them that 天使　means「てんし」and nothing else. That's not really saying anything, so what if itdoesn't mean Angel, it means「てんし」 how do you go about defining words without associating them with anything? And in any case everyone learns differently. I think my suggestion would be pretty helpful to the way I learn, personally, no offense.

That's not the point. 天使 does mean "Angel" in English, its pronunciation is てんし.
There's a difference between learning Vocab (the word "angel" in Japanese) and learning Kanji (the symbol of which words consist). When learning Japanese Kanji are often treated like vocabulary, for example you may get told that the first symbol 天 means sky/heaven. In fact, if this Kanji occurs without any other Kanji it is the word for sky/heaven and pronounced てん, but that doesn't mean that that the symbol contains that meaning. It's just that the symbol is often used for stuff above you (for example 天井 meaning "ceiling"). But it can also be used just for its on'yomi pronunciation in a word like 天ぷら which has nothing to do with the heaven.

In the end you will always stick an idea of what it could mean to each symbol, because otherwise you could not learn them. Just don't think of individual Kanjis as words, they are more like parts of which words are made of.

Spoiler

P.S. I'm not an expert, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Hypron]

I understand this and ultimately it's what I've been trying to achieve. But okay, for example take someone who knows zero kanji and tell them that 天使　means「てんし」and nothing else. That's not really saying anything, so what if itdoesn't mean Angel, it means「てんし」 how do you go about defining words without associating them with anything? And in any case everyone learns differently. I think my suggestion would be pretty helpful to the way I learn, personally, no offense.

The poster clarified in their second post that it's fine to associate words with their translation, just don't associate individual Kanji with a keyword. So in this case you'd learn that Angel = 「てんし」, and that「てんし」 = 天使.

I'm kinda doing that at the moment actually (I read the Genki keywords for general information but don't revise them). It's probably better to minimise the amount of things you need to translate in your head if possible.

 

[JimPanzer]

The poster clarified in their second post that it's fine to associate words with their translation, just don't associate individual Kanji with a keyword. So in this case you'd learn that Angel = 「てんし」, and that「てんし」 = 天使.

I'm kinda doing that at the moment actually (I read the Genki keywords for general information but don't revise them). It's probably better to minimise the amount of things you need to translate in your head if possible.

you were doing the whiteboard method? how does this work without keywords for kanji?

 

[Trigonometrize.]

I've started learning Japanese and I've learned hiragana but I'm trying to improve my reading skills without having to think of what the symbol is. Any tips? I want to just easily see a symbol and know what it is. Should I just start moving onto grammar and vocab to speed the process up?

As long as you have a decent grasp of all of the hiragana characters and are making an effort to think of the correct reading, you're good. Kana will become second nature before you know it and I don't see any point in not moving on to grammar and vocab as long as you're not getting frustrated and relying on romaji. It's just not very efficient to completely master reading hiragana without starting to learn words and read sentences.

 

[King Gilga]

Is there a good guide to tourism japanese.

I'm going for 2.5 weeks with a friend.

I did like less than a year of japanese back in college for easy credits but that was like once a week and I don't remember much apart from the basics and makudonarudo.

 

[Hypron]

you were doing the whiteboard method? how does this work without keywords for kanji?

When you're writing them down several times everyday you don't really need keywords or any sort of mnemonics (it's called brute force for a reason haha). When I don't know the words well yet I just think "ha yeah it's that kanji", and after a few days you just know the words as a whole and you know how each kanji is pronounced within those words, since you're saying the words out loud every time you write them or read them.

So the next time I come across a word that uses one of those kanji I've already learnt, the first things that will pop in my head will be the Japanese pronunciations rather than the keyword (you can still work them out backwards if you want).

 

[JimPanzer]

When you're writing them down several times everyday you don't really need keywords or any sort of mnemonics (it's called brute force for a reason haha). When I don't know the words well yet I just think "ha yeah it's that kanji", and after a few days you just know the words as a whole and you know how each kanji is pronounced within those words, since you're saying the words out loud every time you write them or read them.

So the next time I come across a word that uses one of those kanji I've already learnt, the first things that will pop in my head will be the Japanese pronunciations rather than the keyword (you can still work them out backwards if you want).

uhm, but what are your cues to know which kanji to write? I mean on/kun'yomi doesn't make sense, because there's too much overlapping, looking at the Kanji itself and than writing it down seems also pointless. Have you just memorized a certain order?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I found that it really helped me to just read a lot when it came to memorizing Kanji.

I worked through the Kanji Drill books that are common in Japan to learn them in the order that Japanese school children do, but I mostly learned Kanji through just reading a lot and looking up each word I didn't recognize.

I didn't focus on writing so much, and as a result, I'm honestly very bad at writing Kanji by hand simply from memory, but then again, tons of Japanese people are, too.

 

[Hypron]

uhm, but what are your cues to know which kanji to write? I mean on/kun'yomi doesn't make sense, because there's too much overlapping, looking at the Kanji itself and than writing it down seems also pointless. Have you just memorized a certain order?

Well if I read any of the words I learnt I just know what they mean and how they're pronounced since I've seen them so many times. It works the other way too let's say I want to translate "opening of a store", I know it's 「かいてん」(the same way you'd know that in any language) and since I've written it so many times I know it's 開店 in kanji, instead of, say, 回転.

So when I see a kanji I think "ah yeah it's the one in that word". After a while I suppose I create my own sort of keywords unconsciously - if you see the same kanji in lots of words with a related "theme" you can't help but associate it to that theme.

It works so far, maybe it's all going to come crashing down when I get to 1,000+ kanji, I don't know...

 

[TheSporkWithin]

I understand this and ultimately it's what I've been trying to achieve. But okay, for example take someone who knows zero kanji and tell them that 天使　means「てんし」and nothing else. That's not really saying anything, so what if itdoesn't mean Angel, it means「てんし」 how do you go about defining words without associating them with anything? And in any case everyone learns differently. I think my suggestion would be pretty helpful to the way I learn, personally, no offense.

Right, so learn that 天使 means "angel" and that 天の川 (あまのが&#12431 means "Milky Way." Then, as a separate part of your study, work on remembering that 天 is 「てんし」の「てん」 and 「あまのがわ」の「あま」. I made separate decks in Anki for vocabulary and kanji. As much as possible I used words that I already knew when it came time to make a card for new kanji I was adding; but if I didn't know any words for that kanji (or didn't know any for the onyomi or the kunyomi) I'd look up a list of common words that used it on jisho.org and then added one or two of the most useful-seeming ones to my vocabulary deck.

 

[marimorimo]

Just don't think of individual Kanjis as words, they are more like parts of which words are made of.

That's close to how I think of kanji, although I tend view each individual kanji as more like "an essence of meaning."

It's the reverse process of reading in English (or other alphabet-based script). With phonetic-based text, you sound out the words first then figure out the meaning of the word based on how it sounds.

With kanji you look at the word to see its meaning, then deduce the pronunciation based on what you think it means (guided of course by common conventions on how it's supposed to be pronounced). This is why it's possible to understand a text in Japanese yet not be able to read it aloud (unfortunately a common occurrence with me).

This is how you get readings like おとな for 大人 (the meaning of the 2 kanji together matters more than their individual readings).

At the same time 大人 can also be read as だいにん in rare cases, such as specifically when paying adult tickets for entrance to temples, just because Japanese likes to fuck with you.

P.S. For what it's worth I like assigning an English meaning to individual kanjis and it has never impeded my ability to figure out that 天井 and 天ぷら and 天の川　or 天使　mean different things.

 

[Hypron]

I'm pissed off at Microsof right now, the last update for Windows 10 fucked up my keyboard. Before, I used a change in the registry to use a dvorak keyboard layout when typing Japanese, but it doesn't work anymore...

I don't have the muscle memory to type in qwerty anymore, this is slowing me down so much. grrblb

 

[TheExodu5]

Alright, so after my second trip to Japan, I'm really eager to learn Japanese. I'm sure I'll head over again in the future and I'd like to be ready for it.

Unfortunately, there aren't many options for me to learn Japanese in Ottawa. I basically have two options:

1) Ottawa Japanese Language School. Relatively cheap, but progress seems slow. It uses Japanese for Busy People. It would take 4 semesters to just go through the 3 books and learn 200 Kanji. Still, having access to native speakers might make it worthwhile.

2) Carleton University. This would be far more intensive, but also far more expensive. I'm also not sure if the schedule would allow me to take classes outside of work hours. It uses Genki I. After one semester, I would know hiragana, katakana, 80 Kanji, and know some conversational Japanese.

Option 1 seems like the far more reasonable option, but I wonder if Japanese for Busy People is the right way to go about it. I'm concerned that it will only teach me polite forms and not really useful conversational Japanese. Could I supplement this with something like Learn Japanese the Manga Way? Or would that just lead to more confusion?

It's a shame there isn't much of a Japanese population here.

I'm also open to paid online services. WaniKani seems pretty good for Kanji so I think I will use that. Otherwise are there any useful live courses online that I could do instead of attending local classes?

 

[Hypron]

From the 7 levels I've done, Wanikani is nice with a couple of drawbacks. Some minor stuff like a lot of the radical keywords being completely made up is a bit annoying.

However, the main problems I have with it is that it's too rigid: even of you think you can learn the material fater, you can't go faster than it wants you too. It will take you between 1.5 and 2 years to learn the ~1,700 kanji on there (which is just too long for me).

The way it is structured by levels is also a bit suboptimal IMHO - you essentially get hit with tons of new lessons every time you level up.

Usually, you'll get 50-80 new lessons at once at the beginning of the level, then nothing for a few days, then another 20-30 mid way, then nothing for a few more days, and then you level up, but only if you get 90% of the items right 4/5 times in a row during the reviews. Otherwise you'll keep on delaying the time until which you level up. Delaying your level up by one day doesn't sound too bad on paper, but there are 60 levels in total, so it adds to to months very quickly.

I prefer the way Anki is set up; you get a set number of new cards (lessons) every day. The workload is more even and you're guaranteed to finish in a certain time (which you can choose yourself by setting how many new cards you get every day) if you keep at it every day.

Wanikani has things that are hard to get in an Anki deck though, like example sentences and audio for every word. It's also got explanations and mnemonics for everything, community forums, detailed stats, the interface is good, there are tons of add-ons for it, and the level up system can be a good motivation I guess.

They also send you some stickers and a hand written letter after you pass level 3 which I found very cute haha

 

[marimorimo]

I'm also open to paid online services. WaniKani seems pretty good for Kanji so I think I will use that. Otherwise are there any useful live courses online that I could do instead of attending local classes?

If you have a busy schedule there are lots of legit sites out there that could connect you to professional teachers for online classes. A popular one that I personally use is italki.com. You choose your own teacher and your own schedule based on the teacher's availability. If you're a beginner and don't have a lot of time to study During the week I recommend you do at least a couple of classes a week (once a week classes is too slow for me and makes me forget a lot of stuff).

 

[Kensuke]

-Snip-

Doesn't wanikani cover around 2000 kanji? That's what they advertise. I'm about to hit level 4 myself and I agree with the issues you mention. The lessons should be spread out in a smarter way. Still, after using it for the past two weeks I feel like I really know the kanji it's teaching me. Very much unlike Genki, where I feel the kanji there take me a lot longer to remember (even though I'm using an Anki Genki deck). I'll probably stick with wanikani despite the issues.

 

[JimPanzer]

Doesn't wanikani cover around 2000 kanji? That's what they advertise. I'm about to hit level 4 myself and I agree with the issues you mention. The lessons should be spread out in a smarter way. Still, after using it for the past two weeks I feel like I really know the kanji it's teaching me. Very much unlike Genki, where I feel the kanji there take me a lot longer to remember (even though I'm using an Anki Genki deck). I'll probably stick with wanikani despite the issues.

I'm level 44 at WaniKani. Don't worry, the first 10 or so levels are very slow, later you will easily spend 2 hours every day doing all your review or new lessons. Btw. you don't have to do all the lessons at once...you can spread them out like you want. There are also reorder scripts which let you do the radicals and kanji first and vocab later, that way you can level up faster if you don't do all the lessons at once.

 

[Hypron]

Doesn't wanikani cover around 2000 kanji? That's what they advertise. I'm about to hit level 4 myself and I agree with the issues you mention. The lessons should be spread out in a smarter way. Still, after using it for the past two weeks I feel like I really know the kanji it's teaching me. Very much unlike Genki, where I feel the kanji there take me a lot longer to remember (even though I'm using an Anki Genki deck). I'll probably stick with wanikani despite the issues.

Whoops yeah, sorry. I don't know why but I had the number of Kanji it used to have back when it only had 50 levels in mind. Which is weird because I only discovered the website recently. But anyway, yeah it's got a bit more than 2000.

I'm level 44 at WaniKani. Don't worry, the first 10 or so levels are very slow, later you will easily spend 2 hours every day doing all your review or new lessons. Btw. you don't have to do all the lessons at once...you can spread them out like you want. There are also reorder scripts which let you do the radicals and kanji first and vocab later, that way you can level up faster if you don't do all the lessons at once.

The issue with spreading them out is that it'll take longer to level up and thus unlock new material. I guess it really comes down to just how long you want to spend learning Kanji. If you're not too fussed about doing it fast it seems like a great tool from the few levels I've done and from what you and other people are saying.

 

[TheExodu5]

Okay so I'll be doing WaniKani for the Kanji. Maybe not the quickest method, but it seems like it will require the least effort since it puts everything together in a nice package and sets a reasonable pace. Hopefully I can get through it in 2 years or so.

Besides that, what should I be doing? I'm assuming I need to learn grammar...is that just going to be exposing myself to written material as I learn more Kanji? Or is there a structured approach I should be taking?

Also, WaniKani will help me recognize Kanji, but I won't be able to write it. Is that really a problem, though? I don't know how much use I will have for writing Kanji.

 

[Splash Wave]

Can anyone recommend good online elementary Japanese exercises? I'm looking for stuff to work on while killing time at work. Bringing a textbook would be indiscreet!

 

[JimPanzer]

Can anyone recommend good online elementary Japanese exercises? I'm looking for stuff to work on while killing time at work. Bringing a textbook would be indiscreet!

How elementary are we talking? Are specifically want to exercise stuff you already learned or also learn new stuff? My first encounter with Japanese was Text Fugu and I consider it to be pretty good for the real basic stuff.
Other than that, how about reading NHK easy? You could also sign up for the Satori reader beta.

Okay so I'll be doing WaniKani for the Kanji. Maybe not the quickest method, but it seems like it will require the least effort since it puts everything together in a nice package and sets a reasonable pace. Hopefully I can get through it in 2 years or so.

Besides that, what should I be doing? I'm assuming I need to learn grammar...is that just going to be exposing myself to written material as I learn more Kanji? Or is there a structured approach I should be taking?

Also, WaniKani will help me recognize Kanji, but I won't be able to write it. Is that really a problem, though? I don't know how much use I will have for writing Kanji.

Two years is very reasonable for WaniKani. At my current pace I will hit lvl 60 just under 2 years. And yes, it will only teach you to recognize kanji and come up with their "spelling". Sure you will be able to write the basic stuff anyway because you see it so often, but if you really want to write per hand, you have to study this extra. If all you want to do is read, this is fine, but being able to write a Kanji will help you immensely with recognizing it, that's why I just started to also practice writing.
Also you'll need to learn vocab, WaniKani only teaches you about three words per Kanji, which is not nearly enough if you want to read any native material, even stuff aimed towards children.

For grammar I advise you to buy textbooks. What I did is Genki I -> Genki II -> Tobira and now starting Shin Kanzen Master N3. For the absolute basics I would recommend Text Fugu: http://www.textfugu.com/ It's pretty well written and teaches you a lot of other useful thinks which will come in handy with your further studies (for example how to set goals).

 

[Splash Wave]

How elementary are we talking? Are specifically want to exercise stuff you already learned or also learn new stuff? My first encounter with Japanese was Text Fugu and I consider it to be pretty good for the real basic stuff.
Other than that, how about reading NHK easy? You could also sign up for the Satori reader beta.

TextFugu seems like the right pace for me, thank you!

 

[TheExodu5]

How elementary are we talking? Are specifically want to exercise stuff you already learned or also learn new stuff? My first encounter with Japanese was Text Fugu and I consider it to be pretty good for the real basic stuff.
Other than that, how about reading NHK easy? You could also sign up for the Satori reader beta.



Two years is very reasonable for WaniKani. At my current pace I will hit lvl 60 just under 2 years. And yes, it will only teach you to recognize kanji and come up with their "spelling". Sure you will be able to write the basic stuff anyway because you see it so often, but if you really want to write per hand, you have to study this extra. If all you want to do is read, this is fine, but being able to write a Kanji will help you immensely with recognizing it, that's why I just started to also practice writing.
Also you'll need to learn vocab, WaniKani only teaches you about three words per Kanji, which is not nearly enough if you want to read any native material, even stuff aimed towards children.

For grammar I advise you to buy textbooks. What I did is Genki I -> Genki II -> Tobira and now starting Shin Kanzen Master N3. For the absolute basics I would recommend Text Fugu: http://www.textfugu.com/ It's pretty well written and teaches you a lot of other useful thinks which will come in handy with your further studies (for example how to set goals).

My main problem is that I'm afraid of overlapping resources conflicting in some way. I could do WaniKani, Genki, and TextFugu...but are they going to conflict more than complement each other?

 

[Hypron]

Okay so I'll be doing WaniKani for the Kanji. Maybe not the quickest method, but it seems like it will require the least effort since it puts everything together in a nice package and sets a reasonable pace. Hopefully I can get through it in 2 years or so.

Besides that, what should I be doing? I'm assuming I need to learn grammar...is that just going to be exposing myself to written material as I learn more Kanji? Or is there a structured approach I should be taking?

Also, WaniKani will help me recognize Kanji, but I won't be able to write it. Is that really a problem, though? I don't know how much use I will have for writing Kanji.

There's a plugin for wanikani that shows you the stroke order of the kanji in the information pane. You could write every kanji down when they pop up in a review and then check the stroke order if you're not sure.

Knowing the stroke order helps a lot with memorizing kanji because it's one more cue that'll help you remember them. It's especially useful when you want to produce them from scratch (which wanikani doesn't really prepare you for since it's all about recognising them).

 

[hampig]

Is there any sort of study I can do that doesn't really follow any sort of structure that could help me get to a very basic reading level? I've gone through most of TextFugu, and have a few months of WaniKani under my belt, as well as two college level Japanese courses.

I currently work at a job that allows me a lot of free time, but the free time is very cut up. I'll have 5 minutes here, 2 there, then 20 minutes and I'll never know how long or when. I just want something quick to do, maybe even repetitive so if I can't put my full attention on it now, I can next time I may get there.

I've been sticking with Anki decks for now, but some of mine have gotten so big that it feels daunting to open them up and start. If I could do something like 10-20 vocab words/kanji a day I'd be happy.

 

[JimPanzer]

My main problem is that I'm afraid of overlapping resources conflicting in some way. I could do WaniKani, Genki, and TextFugu...but are they going to conflict more than complement each other?

You do Text Fugu before Genki, not at the same time. Depending on how much time you can devote to learning Japanese you can finish TextFugu pretty fast and have a good standing on how the language works, how to pronounce, know Katakana and Hiragana and some basic grammar. It also teaches you how to set up an Anki deck, so you can start learning vocabulary.
Genki has two strictly separated parts: one that deals with vocab and grammar and one that deals with Kanji. Just skip the Kanji part and use Wani Kani. Text Fugu also has a Kanji part you can skip if you do Wani Kani.

There's a plugin for wanikani that shows you the stroke order of the kanji in the information pane. You could write every kanji down when they pop up in a review and then check the stroke order if you're not sure.

Knowing the stroke order helps a lot with memorizing kanji because it's one more cue that'll help you remember them. It's especially useful when you want to produce them from scratch (which wanikani doesn't really prepare you for since it's all about recognising them).

This 100%. Although I'd say that using the stroke order plugin in WaniKani is not the most efficient way, just because you lose too much time clicking and scrolling. I just set up an Anki Deck which gives me "keywords" (here we go again...) to which I have to write down the Kanji from memory and say the on'yomi reading, the other side of the card then shows me the on'yomi reading and the stroke order

 

[Hypron]

This 100%. Although I'd say that using the stroke order plugin in WaniKani is not the most efficient way, just because you lose too much time clicking and scrolling. I just set up an Anki Deck which gives me "keywords" (here we go again...) to which I have to write down the Kanji from memory and say the on'yomi reading, the other side of the card then shows me the on'yomi reading and the stroke order

Yeah that's true. Personally I'm writing down words instead of individual Kanji but I'm also using Anki:

It's a bit different but the end goal is the same I guess.

I say the reading without looking at the kana (which is why they are on the side and with a lower contrast), but they are on the front face of the card in those cases where the same translation corresponds to two different words.

The colorized kanji stroke order diagrams are really good actually, they are easy to read and compact, so you can make them pretty big.

 

[RangerBAD]

So I'm done with Tobira and I don't know what to do next. I don't really know how much I really picked up from it. I still have a lot of kanji to learn and I guess I can read more. I don't really feel confident though.

 

[TheSporkWithin]

So I'm done with Tobira and I don't know what to do next. I don't really know how much I really picked up from it. I still have a lot of kanji to learn and I guess I can read more. I don't really feel confident though.

If you don't feel confident with the grammar it taught, go back through it again. If you'd rather take a fresh look at the topics it covered go for the 新完全マスターN3 series of books. The reading comprehension （読解） and grammar （文法） ones are especially useful, I find; and at higher levels the vocabulary （語彙） ones are pretty great too.

You're basically at the level where you can start in on pretty much anything and acquire grammar and vocabulary as you go. I strongly recommend grabbing an interesting novel, text-heavy video game, or short story collection and just pushing your way through, copying down every new word and sentence construction that you come across and need to look up. By the time you finish you'll have learned a ton.

 

[Valkerionseven]

So I learned there different kinds of "take out." Whats the "standard" for take out as in, I go to McDonalds and want my food to go.

The one used here in Kagoshima is different. When I said it in Tokyo they gave me a weird look then used "take out" in standard Japanese/English hybrid word form. So it seems like they heard it before, but not commonly in Tokyo (was probably the near undecipherable Kagoben lol)

Also there is one for "take out" as in "I'm interested in taking you out of here" aka go home with me haha.

 

[PreyingShark]

So I learned there different kinds of "take out." Whats the "standard" for take out as in, I go to McDonalds and want my food to go.

The one used here in Kagoshima is different. When I said it in Tokyo they gave me a weird look then used "take out" in standard Japanese/English hybrid word form. So it seems like they heard it before, but not commonly in Tokyo (was probably the near undecipherable Kagoben lol)

Also there is one for "take out" as in "I'm interested in taking you out of here" aka go home with me haha.

So this site is telling Japanese people how to ask for a take-out in English: http://ecafeplus.com/study-english/expressions/to-go-box/

They use お持ち帰る in their Japanese translations so I'm thinking that's it.

 

[Crayolan]

When I was in Tokyo I used 持ち帰りで for takeout and people understood me fine.

 

[Kurita]

So I learned there different kinds of "take out." Whats the "standard" for take out as in, I go to McDonalds and want my food to go.

The one used here in Kagoshima is different. When I said it in Tokyo they gave me a weird look then used "take out" in standard Japanese/English hybrid word form. So it seems like they heard it before, but not commonly in Tokyo (was probably the near undecipherable Kagoben lol)

Also there is one for "take out" as in "I'm interested in taking you out of here" aka go home with me haha.

Just use 持ち帰り in Tokyo

 

[Hypron]

Anyone else getting ready for the JLPT in about a month's time?

I think I'm at around N4 level in terms of Kanji and vocabulary, but my grammar, reading, and listening comprehension are still pretty shaky, i.e. probably sub N5 at this point in time...

I'm finishing a big Anki deck this weekend though, which should leave me more time to do practice drills. Hopefully everything goes well.

I feel like I'm spending so much time on Anki I'm neglecting other sources of learning a bit.