The12thGripper
Member
Gotcha, thanks for your help!
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Learning Japanese |OT| ..honor and shame are huge parts of it. Let's!
- Thread starter I'm an expert
- Start date
Gotcha, thanks for your help!
Damn, great post. That's basically my holy grail, to know grammar enough so I can just read and pick vocabulary as I go. Worked wonderfully with English for me. I'll definitely look into the Nihongo Challenge books, they sound awesome!
Is there something between NHK Easy and normal NHK for daily reading? NHK easy is a bit, well, too easy for me and normal NHK a bit too hard.
I'm somewhere between N4 and N3 (finished both genki books, started tobira), level 40 on WaniKani and halfway through the Japanese Core 6000 deck on iknow.
I'm somewhere between N4 and N3 (finished both genki books, started tobira), level 40 on WaniKani and halfway through the Japanese Core 6000 deck on iknow.
Normal NHK and a jisho.org and google and Weblio
it's seriously one of those things that you just have to power through in order to learn it. you will struggle for a long time, and may need an N2 grammar book to figure out some trickier stuff, but NHK is nothing that can't be figured out with time and Google.
an example for how you should be searching: <thing you don't know>とは will net you results, but in Japanese. otherwise, <thing you don't know> renshuu/jgram/meaning/help me pls god will get you results also.
because NHK is so repetitive, you'll pick it up really quickly. so to answer your question: don't bother with what is in between, just dive into NHK. then when you get a little braver check out blogs/editorials/garbage articles on yahoo.jp.
thanks! I'll give it a go!
any recommendations for dramas? In Anime I like slice-of-life stuff, there gotta be something like that for dramas too, no?
Good luck! The last thing I watched was ゆとりですがなにか which is about guys and girls getting wrecked at work, there are friendship + relationship plots, i guess it's slice of life?
i think a lot of people rate Terrace House quite highly at the moment but I haven't watched it so can't comment.
I used http://kanjicards.org/kanji-lists.html but it goes by the old test format. I don't think there is a definitive list at the moment, though I'm pretty sure N3 needs the first 500, N2 the first 1000 and N1 the total.
Oh, guess I'll have to make sure I learn as much as possible.
I've mostly been relying on Renshuu dot org for grammar but I would like to know if there are any other references worth checking out.
For vocabulary I am using this app called "Kotoba" it seems fine but it would be great if there are better alternatives, even if it is paid.
Oh, on dramas, I have been watching Nihon jin no shiranai nihon go with JP subs - do recommend more J-dramas for practice
I've mostly been relying on Renshuu dot org for grammar but I would like to know if there are any other references worth checking out.
For vocabulary I am using this app called "Kotoba" it seems fine but it would be great if there are better alternatives, even if it is paid.
Oh, on dramas, I have been watching Nihon jin no shiranai nihon go with JP subs - do recommend more J-dramas for practice
LorDjidane
Member
N3 is supposed to be ~650kanjis if memory serves me right.
marimorimo
Member
(First off: I don't want this to turn out into another protracted and pointless argument vs. proponents of the power-through-N1 method of Japanese acquisition, but I'm chipping in my 2 cents based on my experience).
Disclaimer aside, I started learning enough grammar that I could just read and pick up vocabulary (from manga and non-"serious" literature) at Level 3. That's I think N4 at the current exam. Once I got a little better (about N3 I guess) I could almost ditch the dictionary unless there's a kanji I wasn't familiar with.
At that level, I also picked up grammar naturally (with hardly a peek at N1 or N2 books). Of course, this required lots of exposure but learning contextually has the benefit of things sticking better in your mind than if you rote-memorized them. At some point I do think it would be beneficial to pick up a higher-level grammar book to pick up on things you might have missed (although I was surprised at the number of things I had unknowingly picked up and had been using without labeling them as "grammar").
If you want to expand your vocabulary, the fastest way is to learn kanji.
Thanks for the reply! I'm about to pull the trigger on a Kindle paperwhite, I just got paid a scholarship last week so I can afford it haha.
Yeah, you can probably find scans of everything online but I'd rather actually start buying stuff and supporting the artists. I've been reading scans for long enough.
I'll definitely do that, thanks! I can't wait to actually start reading actual news and stuff. I started learning all the Kanji in the Genki coursebook using the whiteboard method. I did all the kanji for chapter 3, 4, and 5 last week (this week for most of you, it's 月曜日 1am here haha). I seem to remember things a lot better this way. One day is enough to remember all the stroke orders and by the second day, I remember all the vocab and kanji.
I spent a couple of hours yesterday creating my vocabulary list in a google spreadsheet. I also made a latex document that automatically makes a formatted A4 size document by reading the vocabulary list haha:
Each page is duplicated, once without the kanji and once with. That way I can't look at the answer by accident. I might make another kindle-sized one, it could be a good way to use the kindle until I know enough to read actual books.
So... I just finished reading the entirety of the old thread. Yep. So many bookmarks, god dayum.... Also, it was pretty cool seeing people going from zero to N1 little by little.
That's cool. How did you get to Level 3? Genki, Tae Kim..?
I'm doing Genki I, and it's just so boring... This past weekend I read some NHK Web Easy News articles with rikaichan and the Dict. of Basic Japanese Grammar and things were surprisingly nice, grammar and kanji wise. I think I'll start making it a regular part of my studying schedule from now on.
That's cool. How did you get to Level 3? Genki, Tae Kim..?
I'm doing Genki I, and it's just so boring... This past weekend I read some NHK Web Easy News articles with rikaichan and the Dict. of Basic Japanese Grammar and things were surprisingly nice, grammar and kanji wise. I think I'll start making it a regular part of my studying schedule from now on.
After learning kana I'm looking at kanji and I'm not sur I understand the learning process (solo studies).
I have to learn the radicals and their meaning.
I have to learn the kanji and their meaning.
I have to learn their stroke order.
But if we go by Tae Kim's blog, I shouldn't learn their readings ? (http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/2014/06/23/you-cant-learn-kanji/)
Am I right here ? Don't want to really start the next part of my studies without having a good grasp of what to do.
I have to learn the radicals and their meaning.
I have to learn the kanji and their meaning.
I have to learn their stroke order.
But if we go by Tae Kim's blog, I shouldn't learn their readings ? (http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/2014/06/23/you-cant-learn-kanji/)
Am I right here ? Don't want to really start the next part of my studies without having a good grasp of what to do.
I'm not Tae Kim, but I think what he is trying to get across in that post that goes over most peoples heads - he's suggesting rather than studying the individual 音読み「おんよみ」 and 訓読み「くんよみ」 for everything, learn those as you learn new words through reading stuff (news, books, manga).
from my experience (and it's different for everyone), i found it easiest to learn the stroke order, the reading and the meaning all at the same time (whiteboard).
depending on what your goal is (reading books? watching anime? reading manga? learning all the things?) you can cheat your learning. if you just want to understand manga, just learn the meaning. you just won't be able to write. there are a lot of ways to do it. do what works best for you though. Expert has a lot of posts about studying for whatever your goal is (JLPT? Novels? Speaking? Tinder game? Manga? Anime?), I need to find it and repost it in here because I think it will help a lot of people.
nice idea with the spreadsheet. find as many ways as you can to make the actual study part easier. spend a bit more time at the start to get a good structure/method going, and after 2 weeks you will breeze through the actual study parts, while also developing very good habits. the Kindle is great, I made word PDFs and looking back i could have simplified it further, oh well. do the same thing for the grammar! I can post an example of what my grammar setup was is if you like?
FantasticMrSnake
Member
Did anyone here manage to get a working visa (for Japan) without speaking Japanese? or know if it's possible?
I wonder how difficult would that be for a mobile developer to get one so I can work there while I try to learn the language.
I wonder how difficult would that be for a mobile developer to get one so I can work there while I try to learn the language.
you wanna work for a company as a mobile developer or you want to work in Japan as a solo mobile developer (for yourself)?
If it's the first, if you can get a job as a mobile developer with a company that will sponsor you, you would get the visa pretty easily right? The hard part is getting the job?
If it's the latter, how would you get a working visa if you weren't going to actually work for a company? Unless you were going to get a part-time job? If that's the case I know one girl who did that but I don't know how, she ended up bailing out of Japan anyway. Worked at an American Apparel.
Either way, why don't you just start learning now?
If it's the first, if you can get a job as a mobile developer with a company that will sponsor you, you would get the visa pretty easily right? The hard part is getting the job?
If it's the latter, how would you get a working visa if you weren't going to actually work for a company? Unless you were going to get a part-time job? If that's the case I know one girl who did that but I don't know how, she ended up bailing out of Japan anyway. Worked at an American Apparel.
Either way, why don't you just start learning now?
FantasticMrSnake
Member
I want to work for a company, but yeah, the hardest part is finding a company willing to sponsor someone (that doesn't speak Japanese) to get a job.
That's what I was asking, if someone has some kind of experience doing that in mobile development.
But my idea is to try to get a job there and learn the language.
I'm slowly (really slowly) trying to learn some things, but I get easily distracted and I lose consistency.
BTW: thanks for the tips/links in the OP =).
That's what I was asking, if someone has some kind of experience doing that in mobile development.
But my idea is to try to get a job there and learn the language.
I'm slowly (really slowly) trying to learn some things, but I get easily distracted and I lose consistency.
BTW: thanks for the tips/links in the OP =).
Hopefully some others can chime in with experience.
As for your studying, are you working full time now? If you're up for starting from 0 language skills and learning a new job in a new country then go for it, but i imagine it would be a battle in any country where you didnt. know the language. Now is a great time to knuckle down and start studying. If you need specific help I can assist you? Sounds like you need to develop better study habits. Dw I've been there.
FantasticMrSnake
Member
Oh, cool, thanks, I'll ask if I have any doubts while I'm trying to learn.
I get what you're saying, I have a friend who move to Germany (he didn't know anything about the language) and it's difficult to him to catch up because in his work all the people speaks english, but I guess I have no problem dealing with that if that's my case.
And yeah, the problem with my study habits is mostly time, I'm working full time and I'm ~30 years old, so sadly I don't have too much time left to dedicate to this =(.
I get what you're saying, I have a friend who move to Germany (he didn't know anything about the language) and it's difficult to him to catch up because in his work all the people speaks english, but I guess I have no problem dealing with that if that's my case.
And yeah, the problem with my study habits is mostly time, I'm working full time and I'm ~30 years old, so sadly I don't have too much time left to dedicate to this =(.
TheSporkWithin
Member
The screen quality is there, but depending on the publisher the image quality is sometimes not actually as high resolution as the screen. Also depending on the publisher, any furigana may be very tiny and difficult to make out without zooming (or even when zoomed, if the image quality is low).
There is no tap to define, they are strictly image dumps.
marimorimo
Member
I took classes, although up to Level 3 we were mostly just going through the "cliff notes" our teacher gave us. They were the best cliff notes ever, and she made them herself. All the grammar and vocab you need to pass Level 4 (or 3): nothing more, nothing less. She analyzed all past JLPT exams and worked out a method to pass each level in 30 hours. She wasn't Japanese but she was a Japanese major, and she taught us in a way that she wished her teachers taught her at university.
By the way, we all passed Level 4, and also Level 3. I wish I didn't lose those cliff notes (this was a long time ago).
So, I didn't actually use any official textbook until I arrived in Japan, where I was immediately placed into the advanced class.
One thing, though: the class didn't actually teach us to speak or write Japanese. It taught us how to pass the exam. If you wanted to learn how to speak, you had to work on it yourself (But that goes for most language classes, not only Japanese).
Is there an alternative to Anki that doesn't delete your flashcards after years of inactivity? Was really frustrated to find that my ankiweb account had been deleted after about 2 years of inactivity. Guess the lesson here is always keep a physical backup. Now I have to start all over again with my kanji reps.
Yeah definitely! Although, I tend to go a bit overboard with that usually... For my research, I spend way too much time working on tools and always end up getting scolded by my supervisors for not getting them actual results haha.
I bought the kindle last week and it works pretty well:
I'm holding it in one hand and write on the whiteboard with the other. It saves me lots of time; I don't have to turn around to look at my PC screen all the time.
That'd be great actually, I'd be keen to get some inspiration
, thanks!
That's good to know, thanks for the correction! After checking, Genki does give the right reading; I must have copied it wrong.
It would have been weird if it was the only "cardinal direction + 口" using the on-yomi reading actually, I should have spotted it...
Not to mention that, usually, words don't tend to mix on'yomi and kun'yomi like that. Either everything inside the word is kun'yomi, or it's all on'yomi.
But then there are exceptions and ateji and whatnot. It's just a rule of thumb.
TheSporkWithin
Member
July JLPT scores are up. Solid pass on the N2 (145/180 - full marks in reading comprehension). I was really worried that I might have failed the listening section due to almost falling asleep twice, but I actually got above 67% in all sections. Shoulda done better - gotta keep pushing!
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
My last post here before i take my sabbatical will be to ask whether res put his money where his mouth was.
Congrats! That's much more than what I passed by!
---
I may've mentioned it before, but I am talking Kanji Kentei in November. I'm not sure on what level I will take yet, but I am thinking of taking Level 4 (which is all the kanji someone who graduated from junior high school should know).
I'm currently reviewing Level 6 kanji (Grade 5 level), and am finding the studying most helpful for words with kunyomi that I never learned when studying for the JLPT, and how to write kanji from memory. It is also helpful with learning simple words.
For example, I didn't understand the below simple sentence. (This was on the 3DS kanji kentei game, I had to write the kanji for ハ.)
道ばたの水たまりに氷がハった
I'll let people know if I eventually decide to take Level 5 or Level 4, and let you know how I do.
TheSporkWithin
Member
Next time Resilient! Maybe we can pass the N1 together in December? (Haha, not likely unless I seriously bury myself in vocab lists and kanji practice)
Nice Jintor! Keep on pushing! Passing N3 means you've got enough of the basics down to really start enjoying native materials and rack up additional exposure/usage time outside of just studies. Will you be joining me in playing P5 next month?
Urfe: I got the "Premium" KanKen cart for DS and it's so humiliating. I have trouble on level 7 and 8 stuff which is just sad. I haven't touched it since the end of June, but I should probably start working it into my studies again... (BTW: That kanji would be 張, right?)
Nice Jintor! Keep on pushing! Passing N3 means you've got enough of the basics down to really start enjoying native materials and rack up additional exposure/usage time outside of just studies. Will you be joining me in playing P5 next month?
Urfe: I got the "Premium" KanKen cart for DS and it's so humiliating. I have trouble on level 7 and 8 stuff which is just sad. I haven't touched it since the end of June, but I should probably start working it into my studies again... (BTW: That kanji would be 張, right?)
I use 漢字学習ステップ book series, 漢検トレーニング 3DS soft, homemade vocab lists, a whiteboard, and I recently found a great little app/game for iPhone called 四字熟語RPG.
PreyingShark
Member
That's kinda surprising TBH. What do you think tripped you up?
I should sign up for the December JLPT N5. If everything goes according to plan it should be 2 months after I start the whiteboard method so it should hopefully be fairly easy by then.
Edit: wtf it's 4am. I must have spent the last 3 hours on lang-8. Need to go to bed I'm attending a photoshoot tomorr- eh today.
Edit: wtf it's 4am. I must have spent the last 3 hours on lang-8. Need to go to bed I'm attending a photoshoot tomorr- eh today.
Vocab section. Needed to study more words. Not phased ultimately, if I'd passed now it would have felt good but all up I need to keep learning more stuff. Listening was all good though, just not enough to carry.
So, I finished Chapter 7 of Genki I and it looks like I'll finish the entire thing in 2.5 weeks if I keep up my current pace. I'm doing all the Kanji in the book using the whiteboard method (well, it's like whiteboard method easy mode, I only add the Kanji once I get to the chapter, but I still write them all down every day - I'm close to 200 words now).
So, I just had a question to people who tried/used the method. How did you guys manage the size of your vocabulary list?
It doesn't seem to be humanely feasible to write all ~7,000 words every day when you get towards the end (unless I made a mistake, you'd need to consistently write 1 word every 2.5 seconds to get the list done in ~5 hours... At the moment I'm averaging at 10 seconds/word, including time to erase), so I guess you kinda have to cut down on the number of words as you go along to keep things manageable.
Did you just remove words from the beginning of the deck sequentially as you added new words (like you add 1 word to your least and remove the first word from the list to keep the total number the same)? Or did you have some sort of pattern (e.g. remove all words except 1 for each Kanji, or just eliminate all the ones you think you know well)?
I'm still trying to decide on the best way to go about doing that. I still have some time left before it gets to that point. I think I can handle about 2,000 words at my current pace. 5 and a half hours every night of Kanji revision seem doable.
I'm just afraid I'll forget stuff if I don't hammer it into my head for long enough. Although, I've only been doing the whiteboard "ez" method for two weeks, maybe by the time to start the real thing I'll feel like the early stuff is so easy I don't need to keep on writing it for another 3 months.
Anyway, reading the small postcards and stuff in Genki without having to look up vocab already feels really rewarding, so I can't wait until I know enough to read real material.
Ha and I filled out all my JLPT application forms, got some ID photos (the price though... $15 for 4 photos! That's some highway robbery), and withdrew some cash (first time in months...)... I'll hand all of that over to the consulate of Japan tomorrow. It's exciting, I love tests
I feel like I'm rambling too much, sorry but for the first time in a long time, I'm actually feeling excited about doing something productive haha
Edit: Here we go:
So, I just had a question to people who tried/used the method. How did you guys manage the size of your vocabulary list?
It doesn't seem to be humanely feasible to write all ~7,000 words every day when you get towards the end (unless I made a mistake, you'd need to consistently write 1 word every 2.5 seconds to get the list done in ~5 hours... At the moment I'm averaging at 10 seconds/word, including time to erase), so I guess you kinda have to cut down on the number of words as you go along to keep things manageable.
Did you just remove words from the beginning of the deck sequentially as you added new words (like you add 1 word to your least and remove the first word from the list to keep the total number the same)? Or did you have some sort of pattern (e.g. remove all words except 1 for each Kanji, or just eliminate all the ones you think you know well)?
I'm still trying to decide on the best way to go about doing that. I still have some time left before it gets to that point. I think I can handle about 2,000 words at my current pace. 5 and a half hours every night of Kanji revision seem doable.
I'm just afraid I'll forget stuff if I don't hammer it into my head for long enough. Although, I've only been doing the whiteboard "ez" method for two weeks, maybe by the time to start the real thing I'll feel like the early stuff is so easy I don't need to keep on writing it for another 3 months.
Anyway, reading the small postcards and stuff in Genki without having to look up vocab already feels really rewarding, so I can't wait until I know enough to read real material.
Ha and I filled out all my JLPT application forms, got some ID photos (the price though... $15 for 4 photos! That's some highway robbery), and withdrew some cash (first time in months...)... I'll hand all of that over to the consulate of Japan tomorrow. It's exciting, I love tests
I feel like I'm rambling too much, sorry but for the first time in a long time, I'm actually feeling excited about doing something productive haha
Edit: Here we go:
