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[Nachos]

While I have been very busy rearranging my life, I haven't put much effort into the thread since it seems very dead compared to the last one. That's why I wanted to try to do some community topics/discussion/activities but it's hard to gauge how many people even frequent this thread at all if they don't post. My apologies for that. It's probably why I'm taking the time to reply to this post..so sorry for the length.

--

I think when I wrote that post, the previous thread and previous community of posters were sort of stuck in a funk. A lot of people basically at the usual hump most language learners get to. You run through the basics, the textbooks, and then you're kind of left swimming in the ocean alone without a clue where to go.

The origin of the whiteboard method for me came from sort of a similar place. I realized that if I continued on the path of a university education's curriculum, after years of "study," I would be at a very low level - even if my school was ivy league. For me, I just identified the existence of the hump before I got there.

Also, since I wrote that post/guide with those specific posters at the time in my mind, I connected the whiteboard method to the other parts of the JLPT study like the grammar/idioms. I didn't have complete beginners in mind, but it doesn't mean the core of the method can't be adapted to fit any level's needs. The method is just brute force memorization through repetition and muscle memory. The act of carving the concepts into your body through your hand is what locks it in. The picture memory you build from staring at those lists for hours never goes away.

I guess what you really want to know is can you juggle/balance learning from a structured beginner's textbook while doing some crazy self-study method at the same time and how will they help or interfere with each other. It probably doesn't feel natural to have these two wildly different study methods with different content going on at the same time.

Even if you begin with the JLPT lists, you're not sure when the content will overlap with the genki books and if you'll be repeating a lot of study. In a perfect world, you would do the whiteboard method for the first two JLPT levels and that would probably ensure that any vocab you encounter in genki will be already known. Basically, you would make genki easier/faster because you don't have to waste time with vocab.. but in essence this sort of makes genki useless because at that point, why not just do the method for the grammar points at the same level as genki and ignore genki altogether?

I guess the answer to this is more about how much you want your hand held (not in a bad way) as you develop the foundation of the language. Is a grammar point, dictionary-style explanation/definition, and a few example sentences enough for you? Or do you want to spend a chapter or two explaining a topic and slowly build up using whatever methods the textbook does.

At this point. since you have the textbook coming, work your way through a bit of it first and see how the language feels. I mean, if you have the time to use the whiteboard method, the truth is, you could complete a textbook like genki in probably 2-3 days. I don't know the contents of the book, but very randomly I would assume it does stuff like polite/dictionary form, present/past tense, negatives, u/ru verbs or i/na adjectives, particles, te form, and maybe random stuff like nagara/kudasai/ka.. whatever.

There's something about textbook study that makes these concepts feel way more epic than they really are. Like in your mind you feel wowwww.. in the beginning it was just desu and now 10 chapters later I have no clue what all this kunakatta stuff is. While with something like whiteboard, the most basic concept of desu has the same weight as learning something like a conditional. It's just another point on the list, not a build up to anything. The grammar points I studied from N1 lists feel the exact same as those from an N4 list.

I think that goes into a very different topic of the psychology behind study and study methods. So the very basic TLDR I would write is to give genki an honest shot and don't worry about the whiteboard being a supplement right now. At the core of the whiteboard method is a repetition of any content you have already studied because of starting from the lowest JLPT level and working up. So whether you start alongside genki or after, you will be writing the most basic words/grammar points multiple times either way.

Yeah, I think part of the reason why I mentioned "taking things to the next level" is because the post seemed in line with a bunch of self-help books and resources I've read before. Very frank and assertive, and not at all coddling, but aimed at empowering the reader to take learning into their own hands, instead of relying on someone else's teachings.

And you're right about having your hand held. Self-study means much fewer people monitoring and correcting my work. So I don't want to get any poor habits or misconceptions ingrained in the beginning, since chances are, they'll just compound with time. I'm still getting my bearings, and in a way, figuring out what those bearings even look like. There's no shortage of comments, and articles, and whatever else giving all sorts of contradictory information. Someone could say N5 is impossible, but that doesn't mean a whole lot when you don't know more, like their studying habits, the quality of their learning material, or even their work ethic.

The descriptions for the tests on the official website don't help, either, but you saying that N3's basically the end of elementary school puts things into perspective. I got my Genki I materials from a friend who didn't need them anymore, so I'm not that invested in the book that much. Still, I think I'll complete all of it, and then feel out a good next step, whether that means Genki II/Whiteboard/Tobira/Tae Kim/whatever, or some combination of them.

But no need to apologize for the lengthy reply. I read all of it, and am very grateful. It's been a huge help in clarifying things.

 

[PreyingShark]

So one last question. How did you guys become so good at Japanese? Especially "I'm an expert". Are you Japanese? Moved to Japan? Just curious. Not a lot of resources to learn the language where I'm from, unfortunately.

He allegedly started off by locking himself in his room for 3 months to get himself to an ~N1 level and then worked from there.

 

[Nachos]

I promise you that if someone asked what your fav fruit was and you said ringo ha suki desu, nothing would happen. The world wouldn't end nor would you look like an idiot nor would communication stop. If anything, the person you're speaking to may even wonder why you used a particle in the first place.

Ha vs ga is more a thing of pride than language proficiency. It's not to say you shouldn't learn and study the basic uses of the particles that would come up early in studies, but that weird internet myth that there's a giant conundrum about which to use just isn't true and doesn't need to be researched deeply.

Sounds kind of like that/who/whom in English. Are there some cases, like "Whom did you ask about fruit?", that might even sound stilted, despite being the only grammatically-correct option?

 

[I'm an expert]

Don't like that allegedly in there, especially from a ghost alt.

As for the actual answer, I think people like me or zefah would skip past everything and simply land on living/working in Japan for many years.

 

[eefara]

Speaking of talking to long-distance strangers for speaking practice, does anyone have any tips for getting over shyness/nervousness in those situations? My speaking ability is almost nonexistent, and I would like to improve it, but conversion seems really intimidating.

I realize that advice will generally boil down to "they're not going to eat you get over it", but this has been on my mind for a while.

 

[Laevateinn]

So one last question. How did you guys become so good at Japanese? Especially "I'm an expert". Are you Japanese? Moved to Japan? Just curious. Not a lot of resources to learn the language where I'm from, unfortunately.

I'm an expert was bit by a radioactive geisha.

 

[Kensuke]

Beginner here.

Currently I'm focusing on WaniKani (lvl 6), KaniWani and a WK expansion vocab list on memrise. I was using Genki before, but I felt learning vocab through that was not working out. I'd see something like 'gaikokujin' and find it impossible to remember. It looked like random words in my brain. Now that I know the individual kanji for it, 外国人, it's sticking with no effort at all. I'll get back to Genki once I've expanded my kanji knowledge a bit more.

In the meantime I'm using 'Japanese the Manga Way' for grammar. Really fun book that's incredibly accessible. The only big flaw is that it uses a ton of romanji, but I'm mitigating the damage by typing out the kanji and putting it into Houhou for SRS.

Current goal is to be at roughly N5 level before the year turns, but we'll see. I only started learning since September.

 

[marimorimo]

Speaking of talking to long-distance strangers for speaking practice, does anyone have any tips for getting over shyness/nervousness in those situations? My speaking ability is almost nonexistent, and I would like to improve it, but conversion seems really intimidating.

I realize that advice will generally boil down to "they're not going to eat you get over it", but this has been on my mind for a while.

First off, you just need to set your initial apprehensions aside, go out, and START DOING IT. Once you start the video call the shyness and nervousness gradually melt away. In fact, chances are very high that the experience will be positive. If you're worrying about that, I would say that the typical Japanese would be even more shy and nervous than you are. I guess it also depends on where/how you got your language exchange partners but for 80% of the people I talk to online, I was their first language exchange partner so many of them are nervous/apprehensive as well.

I haven't used it since last winter, but at that time I found that most chat partners tapered off after the self-introductions and such were finished up. I'm sure that if you put more time into it and try to strike up a ton of conversations you'll eventually find something though.

Yes!That's my only issue with it so far too, I think there are a lot of people who like the idea, but the reality is not so easy due to time/language ability, so you will end up introducing yourself several times before you get a decent conversation going.

As far as getting nothing out of it, I think it's just that people can chat with natives in the comfort of their home. Although I live in a city with a decent Japanese population, that appeals to me, so for people who don't get a lot of chance to speak with natives it's pretty gold.

As someone who has stepped up my Skype language exchange game recently--whereas before I would maybe do exchanges 3-4 times a year, I now do them 6-9 times a week in 4 languages, I have found it productive to take on the responsibility of furthering along the conversation beyond the usual self-introductions. You do this by asking open-ended or leading questions:

Why do want to learn X language?
What do you on your free time? (So many ways to ask additional questions about this, especially if they have a not-so-common hobby)
What's your job? Work/school hours? (Good practice with learning occupations and telling time)
Where did you spend your last vacation? (Good practice with the past tense)
Etc..etc...

And if you run out, here's a nice long list of topics you can talk about.

If you are at an intermediate to advanced level, you can search for short articles online in the target language for discussion.

...Yes, to get the most out of language exchanges it's advisable to be at least lower intermediate level otherwise the conversation would be highly skewed towards the person who speaks the other language better so the other person might not be able to benefit as much. If you can ask and answer the questions above in Japanese (even if you make some mistakes), you're good to go. However, you can still benefit if you are a beginner if you strategically ask your partner to help you practice vocabulary and grammar topics. Here are some suggestions.

At the very least, ask them for help and feedback with your pronunciation so you don't learn all the high level grammar, go to Japan, and wonder why nobody understands you because of your terrible pronunciation.

 

[maxcriden]

This is probably old information already well covered, but:

-It's not an app, but The Mixxer is a really good analog site for meeting people who want to do a language exchange and in my experience actually stick with chatting with you. My experience has been that for most people on there, if you develop a rapport with them and if they're genuinely interested in reciprocal language exchange, they will keeo in touch heavily, with the caveat that conflicting schedules and time difference might mean that you do just as much LINE chatting as you do Skyping. Well, a lot more LINE chatting. Which is still very good conversational practice, and in some ways typing makes it easier to correct and be corrected.

-For the free moments when I can find or make them, I like to open up the TuneIn radio app, which is pretty limited in ads, and listen to Japanese talk radio. I think FM Miki is generally great for immersion and they tend to speak quickly so it's a good challenge in that way. Granted I don't understand most of what's being said but I do find it helpful. Late nights in Japan they often broadcast weird talk radio shows sometimes just of someone reciting a story in the most deadpan voice possible. Also good practice.

-the Sato-san app, if it's still up and running since it's been a year or so since I checked it out, is great for just random Japanese streams of people broadcasting themselves or commenting on your broadcast. I think you can randomly call or be called by users but I never figured out that functionality.

-Japanese are the most fun form of immersion for me. I think they're great for getting the slangy sense of the language beyond what textbooks will show (the same phenomenon discussed in recent posts in this thread). I realize people are writing dialogue for these characters but I think some nuances of the language a textbook won't teach you do come out regardless in this dialogue. Though, something like Terrace House on Netflix, which is reality TV, is especially good for this since it's mostly people just talking casually.

I hope this is of any help to fellow beginners here. I want to read everything already posted ITT but just haven't had time yet. Thanks to all who contribute their terrific advice in this thread, I've really enjoyed what I have read and found it very beneficial.

*Insert LINE sticker of Pomeranian saying 頑張ってください*

 

[Forkball]

Has anyone studied at a Japanese language school in Japan? I may enroll in one next year, but I'm wondering if anyone here has had experience with it. I thought about attending a language school over university courses due to flexibility and a more concentrated focus on different areas, but after doing some research I'm not so sure about the best option. There doesn't seem to be any universal recommendation for a particular school.

 

[Style]

I have a friend that went to Japanese class in Japan... The classes were in Japanese from day 1. >_>

 

[Hypron]

I have a friend that went to Japanese class in Japan... The classes were in Japanese from day 1. >_>

It's a good way to learn a language even if it can be rough at the beginning. It kinda makes you dissociate you mother tongue and the language you're learning, so you start thinking in the language sooner instead of translating things all the time.

 

[Kornoponing]

Has anyone studied at a Japanese language school in Japan? I may enroll in one next year, but I'm wondering if anyone here has had experience with it. I thought about attending a language school over university courses due to flexibility and a more concentrated focus on different areas, but after doing some research I'm not so sure about the best option. There doesn't seem to be any universal recommendation for a particular school.

I'm currently following a course at Coto Language Academy in Iidabashi. I like the way they teach Japanese and all the staff and teachers are very friendly. We use the Genki textbook in combination with some conversation practises made by the school. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

 

[Kurita]

Has anyone studied at a Japanese language school in Japan? I may enroll in one next year, but I'm wondering if anyone here has had experience with it. I thought about attending a language school over university courses due to flexibility and a more concentrated focus on different areas, but after doing some research I'm not so sure about the best option. There doesn't seem to be any universal recommendation for a particular school.

I don't know if it's the best option but I took classes last summer at Tokyo International Japanese School. Teachers were pretty good, small groups. Really enjoyed my time there and definitely helped me.

I have a friend that went to Japanese class in Japan... The classes were in Japanese from day 1. >_>

It's one of the best ways to learn and it's just normal. Why would they use anything aside from Japanese in a class with people from different countries? It'd unfair to use English if there are native speakers/people who don't speak English for instance.

 

[marimorimo]

I have a friend that went to Japanese class in Japan... The classes were in Japanese from day 1. >_>

All classes from official language learning institutions (like Instituto Cervantes, Alliance Française, Goëthe Institut, Japan Foundation, etc...) teach in the target language from Day 1.

As others said it could be rough at first but you will be thanking your teacher later.

 

[Hypron]

I just finished the practice N5 test that's available on the JLPT website. I got 29/33 for the vocab section, 28/32 for the reading section and 17/24 for the listening section. I don't know what final grade it would correspond to since things get scaled but I would guess it's probably enough to pass.

However, I'm still not feeling good about this. My mind just blanked out a couple of times in the listening section making me miss part of the questions; I still need more practice.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Don't like that allegedly in there, especially from a ghost alt.

As for the actual answer, I think people like me or zefah would skip past everything and simply land on living/working in Japan for many years.

If that's an option, absolutely!

The only way to get good is full immersion, so the quicker you are studying using materials in the language you are learning, the better.

The modern Internet makes this so easy for anyone who is motivated enough, though... I can't imagine how much easier it is to get proficient at a language than it was even 10 years ago.

 

[Trigonometrize.]

I have never found success in day 1 target language teaching. It frustrates too much and teachers usually have a bizarre lack of patience. It's nice to get going ASAP but it's turned me off more often than engaged me.

 

[Beckx]

i think i mentioned before that i use multiple sources for study, but I also like to follow a formal textbook to really grind in the grammar points (plus the mp3s that come with the Genki books have been good shadowing & listening comp practice).

I'll finish Genki II soon. Trying to decide what to do next. I may dive straight into Tobira, but also considering using another textbook first as a bridge. I've seen the Japan Times book (Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese) but also seeing more people talking about Hiyaku. The reviews on the latter seem really mixed but the sample size is small. Does anyone have experience with Hiyaku?

 

[IC5]

My tip to day 1 beginners is memorize 75% of Hiragana, before you learn any grammar or vocabulary. Then, you can be writing everything, as you learn it. and before long, you'll be writing in Hiragana, no problem. Even though the lessons may still be easing you in.

Katakana can take a lot longer, as many textbooks don't do a great job of integrating for enough exposure. I didn't specifically work on Katakana in my free time. So I never had good memorization of it, until I started taking trips to Japan. A trip to Japan will force you to learn Katakana very quickly.

I hear Manga is good for Katakana, but I've never been into reading Manga.

 

[Porcile]

Been a long while J-learning GAF. Thought I'd come back to read some US Election carnage knowing how crazy fucking liberal/millennial everyone in OT is lol. I haven't been disappointed. Shame I wasn't around for Brexit, but there's still Nintendo Switch to come so i'll probably hang around till then.

I didn't pass the JLPT N1 test. I didn't really keep up the studying when I got here for whatever reason, except during summer when it was too hot to go outside during the day. Fuck it who cares anyway, I'm in Japan already for the foreseeable future. I'm going to take it when I feel I can pass it for realsies.

 

[KanameYuuki]

It's been one year since I decided to start learning Japanese, I keep having so many doubts if I will be able to get to a decent level, and when would that even happen. It's been quite fun but it feels quite stagnant most of the time.

I'm so unsure about my future and I hope learning this language helps me to find my way but even so I don't know how this will even help me.

Of course I would love to get a chance to leave for good my country but it seems like an impossible task.

 

[Hypron]

Okay I'm requesting a ban until the JLPT exam. See you guys after!

Good luck to anyone taking it

 

[IC5]

It's been one year since I decided to start learning Japanese, I keep having so many doubts if I will be able to get to a decent level, and when would that even happen. It's been quite fun but it feels quite stagnant most of the time.

I'm so unsure about my future and I hope learning this language helps me to find my way but even so I don't know how this will even help me.

Of course I would love to get a chance to leave for good my country but it seems like an impossible task.

For me, a big source of drive to learn, is having Japanese friends to interact with in daily life. If you can gain a couple of Japanse friends, using language with them, will completely change your perspective on many things. and it should keep the learning fire burning!

 

[Aizo]

For me, a big source of drive to learn, is having Japanese friends to interact with in daily life. If you can gain a couple of Japanese friends, using language with them, will completely change your perspective on many things. and it should keep the learning fire burning!

Easier said than done in some cases. All the Japanese friends I made before moving to Japan were great, but they all turned into the biggest flakes when they went back to Japan. I've got a few Japanese friends I talk to pretty regularly, but... most of my Japanese friends are extremely unreliable.

The irony is that all my Japanese friends complain to me about how hard it is for them to make Japanese friends, and how they flake all the time.

I recognize that I'm also at fault for not having great Japanese speaking skills, which I'm sure makes it more difficult for me to be befriended. I'm always working on it, though.

Hell, I shouldn't complain since I saw a Japanese friend yesterday, and I'm hanging with more over the next two days. It's definitely gotten a lot better than it was!

 

[Kurita]

For me, a big source of drive to learn, is having Japanese friends to interact with in daily life. If you can gain a couple of Japanse friends, using language with them, will completely change your perspective on many things. and it should keep the learning fire burning!

Definitely (same for every language of course). And hearing/using "real" Japanese instead of textbooks is crucial.

Also, feeling like you're making not progress happens sometimes, it's normal, no need to worry about it. I had a couple of phases like that, then you restart going forward. The biggest "boost" I got was last year when I stayed 1 month in Tokyo at the language school, and when I came back I took Interpreting class at my college. Pretty big challenge but definitely helped me, improved a lot thanks to it.
Maybe try to aim higher than where you are at now? It might motivate you to take it to the next level.

 

[eefara]

First off, you just need to set your initial apprehensions aside, go out, and START DOING IT. Once you start the video call the shyness and nervousness gradually melt away. In fact, chances are very high that the experience will be positive. If you're worrying about that, I would say that the typical Japanese would be even more shy and nervous than you are. I guess it also depends on where/how you got your language exchange partners but for 80% of the people I talk to online, I was their first language exchange partner so many of them are nervous/apprehensive as well.





As someone who has stepped up my Skype language exchange game recently--whereas before I would maybe do exchanges 3-4 times a year, I now do them 6-9 times a week in 4 languages, I have found it productive to take on the responsibility of furthering along the conversation beyond the usual self-introductions. You do this by asking open-ended or leading questions:

Why do want to learn X language?
What do you on your free time? (So many ways to ask additional questions about this, especially if they have a not-so-common hobby)
What's your job? Work/school hours? (Good practice with learning occupations and telling time)
Where did you spend your last vacation? (Good practice with the past tense)
Etc..etc...

And if you run out, here's a nice long list of topics you can talk about.

If you are at an intermediate to advanced level, you can search for short articles online in the target language for discussion.

...Yes, to get the most out of language exchanges it's advisable to be at least lower intermediate level otherwise the conversation would be highly skewed towards the person who speaks the other language better so the other person might not be able to benefit as much. If you can ask and answer the questions above in Japanese (even if you make some mistakes), you're good to go. However, you can still benefit if you are a beginner if you strategically ask your partner to help you practice vocabulary and grammar topics. Here are some suggestions.

At the very least, ask them for help and feedback with your pronunciation so you don't learn all the high level grammar, go to Japan, and wonder why nobody understands you because of your terrible pronunciation.

Thanks for the advice! Gotta keep in mind that it's not just me who's learning...

 

[Sesuadra]

the app for learning kuzushi-ji 崩し字 is now in english
https://itunes.apple.com/jp/app/kuzushi-zi-xue-xi-zhi-yuanapurikula/id1076911000?mt=8

Have fun. >>

Disclaimer, I've nothing to to with that app. But my japanese institute recommends it.

 

[beta_fuse]

So my studying has unfortunately come to a halt thanks to returning to school and working 7 days a week (shouldn't be an excuse either way). It's a real bummer because by the end of this summer I had learned around 100 kanji and was getting pretty good with grammar as well. Now aside from going back hard into the Genki workbooks and online tools such as flash cards and maybe Mixxer I'm thinking about an intensive 1-month study abroad lesson in Japan. I have seen an ad for 1 on 1 private tutor who you live with in japan for a month and was wondering if anyone has ever experienced such a tutoring service or knows anyone who has? They pretty much accommodate everything and you sight-see while they teach you Japanese. For anyone curious here's the link http://www.yj-anyguide.com/language-lesson

 

[I'm an expert]

That..site is interesting. I mean, let's walk through a few things hypothetically

According to your post you lightly studied for a summer and picked up some beginner grammar and a couple kanji. Basically you haven't learned anything. And I don't mean that in an insulting way, what I mean is no program that is designed by other people - private company or school - will ever accommodate the fact that you tackled 1.7% of Japanese. They will simply start from 0% because if you're not intermediate or above, you're just beginner.

As such, they will treat you as a beginner and I have a feeling you will waste a minimum of one week gaining absolutely zero knowledge that you couldn't knock out in a few afternoon study sessions in your room right now. Japanese courses love starting people from square one because it is easy for them. They make a lot of money teaching something that takes no effort and you gain nothing from it. You could finish the entire Genki series in two weeks of light study a day if you wanted to. It wouldn't surprise me at all if your private tutor pops out some Genki books and that's what their idea of private lesson is.

So you pay $2500 (just for their accomodation/service, I don't think there's any meals included) to live in a sharehouse in the countryside and assume that you will have a Japanese person (unknown background/age/qualification) stick with you for..hopefully at least 9-5 every day because otherwise what's the point.The only way I see that being effective is if you actually convince them to lock themselves in a room with you from 9-5 to do nothing but intensive Japanese study.

And I don't think that will happen. I think they will take you to the zoo, they will teach you how to buy a ticket, how to say lion, tell you how jyozu your hashi are. And then the next day they'll bring same print outs from their folders and teach you hiragana. I also don't think YOU will want to do that. You will want them to take you to Osaka/Kyoto/Kobe and you will want to be a tourist and they will gladly take you and show you how to buy takoyaki and you will think ohhh this is soooo cooooooollllll... and it won't mean shit for your language ability.

The truth is a lot of these businesses, and there are a lot, are aimed towards two specific demographics of which neither are "enthusiastic linguistic." Also the location, which I know extensively since I golf with clients in the area often, is extremely inconvenient because every time you will want to get out of the area to a bigger area, it will cost you the entire day. That's another day of no "intensive" study.

For the price, you could actually rent a place in Tokyo for a month (or two) and feed yourself and have access to a million places/people where you can very specifically customize your studies. The downside is you don't have a guaranteed Japanese person with you. But I could write an entire post on why that is dumb/pointless/meaningless.

Unless of course this site you linked, or a similar one like it, actually is everything I would hope it would be. True, honest, intensive 10 hour a day study for a month with an enthusiastic native teacher. If that's the case, that sounds excellent.

In terms of value, $2500 is 1/4-1/5 of the usual tuition for an actual full year of study at a Japanese language school in Tokyo which qualifies you for a student visa and usually offers dormitories. Like I'm picking a random one from google - http://en.kaij.jp/ - and for $2500 you get 3 months of structured study. Now this doesn't include living/food/play, but think about the experience of living in Tokyo, class of international students, ability to experience culture after classes, ability to supplement your studies with said culture.

Very basic TLDR:

If you can actually reach a point of VERY intermediate through personal studies and then did something like the site you linked to really cap off your learning, then it may be worth it. But unless you can confirm that those services offer a highly motivated and disciplined tutor that is willing to cater to your specific learning needs, just fucking around in Japan on your own or in a more traditional school will probably be infinitely more beneficial to your studies and enjoyment.

 

[ATXAlchemy]

Uhhh, guys, how do I learn Japanese in less than 2 weeks for the December JLPT? I don't know Japanese and I made a $50,000 bet that I can pass JLPT N2. I can't be paying that shit, my mom will kill me. Help me, GAF?

Seriously, how do I pass this thing?

Does anyone have a good (and online/free*) comprehensive list of vocabs/kanji (preferable compile-able from N5 to N2)? *I doubt I still got the time to look at it if I had to ship it to this shitty country.

I was using this but it felt really cumbersome. I switched to this. After an hour or two of switching between looking at it and procrastinating, I'm about 500 of ~5000 on the vocab part.

I did finish Genki I and Genki II a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, but I remember sensei saying you can't pass N2 with just that. I plan to go through it since there's one at work.

I have some books from a friend/co-worker who isn't taking the test.
日本語総まとめ N2 Listening
日本語総まとめ N2 Reading
TRY! JLPT N2 book

P.S. I deeply regret not going for N2 or N1 when I was in college. Uni provided free review session for JLPT, too. >__>

 

[I'm an expert]

If you wake up at 5AM and study till about 9PM (with obvious breaks) every day for two weeks, you can pass JLPT2. You will have to wing listening as it would be the slowest to study and I'm assuming you've watched at least 1000 hours of illegal anime. There's nothing wrong with any of the lists you provided, just do them. I'm sure those sites have grammar lists too. Do them. Make this last post you read here until next week. Then come backand try to read this:

中国で高速鉄道車両の製造を独占する国有メーカー「中国中車」が、科学技術省の委託を受けて研究・開発に乗り出す。リニア車両を２０年までに開発、２１年にはリニアの交通システムを備えることを目指す。研究開発費は約３２・２億元（約４９０億円）。うち政府財政からは約４・３億元が支援されると報じられた。

If you can read/understand it within 7 seconds, keep pushing the second week and you should be fine. If you can't, you won't pass and you'll have only lost a week.

 

[urfe]

If you wake up at 5AM and study till about 9PM (with obvious breaks) every day for two weeks, you can pass JLPT2. You will have to wing listening as it would be the slowest to study and I'm assuming you've watched at least 1000 hours of illegal anime. There's nothing wrong with any of the lists you provided, just do them. I'm sure those sites have grammar lists too. Do them. Make this last post you read here until next week. Then come backand try to read this:

中国で高速鉄道車両の製造を独占する国有メーカー「中国中車」が、科学技術省の委託を受けて研究・開発に乗り出す。リニア車両を２０年までに開発、２１年にはリニアの交通システムを備えることを目指す。研究開発費は約３２・２億元（約４９０億円）。うち政府財政からは約４・３億元が支援されると報じられた。

If you can read/understand it within 7 seconds, keep pushing the second week and you should be fine. If you can't, you won't pass and you'll have only lost a week.

Took me about 30 seconds, and I wouldn't have been able to 6 years ago when I passed N2.

 

[I'm an expert]

You're saying it takes you 30 seconds to read that blurb I posted? Really? I don't think there's a single word/kanji above jlpt2 in there though there's no way I remember the lists that precisely. I just picked that excerpt because grammatically and vocabulary-wise it's as basic as it gets.

Edit: actually 元's meaning here is probably the only thing not taught in jlpt2..maybe..don't remember. But the rest.. I don't know it feels like jlpt3 to me lol

 

[JimPanzer]

Uhhh, guys, how do I learn Japanese in less than 2 weeks for the December JLPT? I don't know Japanese and I made a $50,000 bet that I can pass JLPT N2. I can't be paying that shit, my mom will kill me. Help me, GAF?

Seriously, how do I pass this thing?

Does anyone have a good (and online/free*) comprehensive list of vocabs/kanji (preferable compile-able from N5 to N2)? *I doubt I still got the time to look at it if I had to ship it to this shitty country.

I was using this but it felt really cumbersome. I switched to this. After an hour or two of switching between looking at it and procrastinating, I'm about 500 of ~5000 on the vocab part.

I did finish Genki I and Genki II a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, but I remember sensei saying you can't pass N2 with just that. I plan to go through it since there's one at work.

I have some books from a friend/co-worker who isn't taking the test.
日本語総まとめ N2 Listening
日本語総まとめ N2 Reading
TRY! JLPT N2 book

P.S. I deeply regret not going for N2 or N1 when I was in college. Uni provided free review session for JLPT, too. >__>

the grammar part of the first site you mentioned doesn't seem complete at all. I'm currently studying for N3 with Tobira and the Shin Kanzen Master N3 book and theres a lot more advanced stuff in it than mentioned on the side.

 

[TheSporkWithin]

You're saying it takes you 30 seconds to read that blurb I posted? Really? I don't think there's a single word/kanji above jlpt2 in there though there's no way I remember the lists that precisely. I just picked that excerpt because grammatically and vocabulary-wise it's as basic as it gets.

Edit: actually 元's meaning here is probably the only thing not taught in jlpt2..maybe..don't remember. But the rest.. I don't know it feels like jlpt3 to me lol

Most of the people I know who have passed N2 read at like 75% of a normal speaking speed. They thought I was lying when I said that I finished the reading section of the exam in 30 minutes because they were convinced it was impossible.

I'm not saying that being able to read that in 7 seconds is impossible, just that it's an insane benchmark for N2. I actually feel that my reading speed is painfully slow - it took me just about 30 seconds to read that bit too. But it would probably take most of the other N2 people I know at least a solid minute.

Also, that sort of subject matter is unlikely to come up on the N2, I think. Even the articles about more advanced topics tend to be editorials or explanatory articles rather than straightforward facts-reporting targeting an informed audience.

I did finish Genki I and Genki II a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, but I remember sensei saying you can't pass N2 with just that. I plan to go through it since there's one at work.

Was Genki 2 as far as you studied? That's roughly N4 level. Even if you remembered everything you learned out of those perfectly, you'd be a very long ways from the N2. If you're seriously interested in resuming your Japanese studies, trying to cram one to two years worth of learning into two weeks will be an extremely unpleasant way to do so. I'd personally skip this go-round and start studying at a rate which actually suits your current situation, motivation and goals.

 

[I'm an expert]

I mean, I don't think most people who pass JLPT2 even know how to speak, so that example doesn't mean much. I get what you're saying, the truth is even if this guy does study non-stop for 2 weeks, after about a month he too would probably take 30+ seconds to read that blurb or not be able to read it at all. But if you go into study mode and do nothing but drown in Japanese for 2 weeks, I have a good feeling a blurb like that wouldn't be an issue. It's like temporarily obtaining super powers. The issue with most people is they achieve their desired goal and then completely let up and it all drifts away. Again..my diet analogy..

I can't really continue the rest of the convo because no matter what I type I will come off as condescending. I already know this. I just need to accept that whatever my standards of normal are won't be someone else's, and in fact it might be the extreme minority.

 

[urfe]

You're saying it takes you 30 seconds to read that blurb I posted? Really? I don't think there's a single word/kanji above jlpt2 in there though there's no way I remember the lists that precisely. I just picked that excerpt because grammatically and vocabulary-wise it's as basic as it gets.

Edit: actually 元's meaning here is probably the only thing not taught in jlpt2..maybe..don't remember. But the rest.. I don't know it feels like jlpt3 to me lol

I think it's like 50 or 60% to pass N2. You don't need to know everything, you don't need to fully comprehend everything. I think someone being able to fully understand that in minutes, or kind of does in 30-60 seconds means they could pass N2.

 

[DukeLongfellow]

This Germany trip has not been good to me. Haven't used German actively almost at all for 5 years (except for some college texts) and was forced to do so to get by in Frankfurt. The problem is, a lot of times Japanese came in without thinking.

You can imagine the puzzled waiter's face when I said: "Hai, ist gut." Or the clerk's: "Das ist 20 Euro? Ein bisschen takai desu ne..."

Even more so the look on my professor and classmates when I came up with this gem: "うん、私のパソコン "エガル" ("egal" instead of 同&#12376 です。

Curse you German

 

[KanameYuuki]

For me, a big source of drive to learn, is having Japanese friends to interact with in daily life. If you can gain a couple of Japanse friends, using language with them, will completely change your perspective on many things. and it should keep the learning fire burning!

That sound like a really good idea. Do any of you know a good page or app to talk to them, I guess I could bargain helping them with English and Spanish.

 

[Laevateinn]

This Germany trip has not been good to me. Haven't used German actively almost at all for 5 years (except for some college texts) and was forced to do so to get by in Frankfurt. The problem is, a lot of times Japanese came in without thinking.

You can imagine the puzzled waiter's face when I said: "Hai, ist gut." Or the clerk's: "Das ist 20 Euro? Ein bisschen takai desu ne..."

Even more so the look on my professor and classmates when I came up with this gem: "うん、私のパソコン "エガル" ("egal" instead of 同&#12376 です。

Curse you German

I did that when I went to Montreal except with French.

 

[beta_fuse]

That..site is interesting. I mean, let's walk through a few things hypothetically

According to your post you lightly studied for a summer and picked up some beginner grammar and a couple kanji. Basically you haven't learned anything. And I don't mean that in an insulting way, what I mean is no program that is designed by other people - private company or school - will ever accommodate the fact that you tackled 1.7% of Japanese. They will simply start from 0% because if you're not intermediate or above, you're just beginner.

As such, they will treat you as a beginner and I have a feeling you will waste a minimum of one week gaining absolutely zero knowledge that you couldn't knock out in a few afternoon study sessions in your room right now. Japanese courses love starting people from square one because it is easy for them. They make a lot of money teaching something that takes no effort and you gain nothing from it. You could finish the entire Genki series in two weeks of light study a day if you wanted to. It wouldn't surprise me at all if your private tutor pops out some Genki books and that's what their idea of private lesson is.

So you pay $2500 (just for their accomodation/service, I don't think there's any meals included) to live in a sharehouse in the countryside and assume that you will have a Japanese person (unknown background/age/qualification) stick with you for..hopefully at least 9-5 every day because otherwise what's the point.The only way I see that being effective is if you actually convince them to lock themselves in a room with you from 9-5 to do nothing but intensive Japanese study.

And I don't think that will happen. I think they will take you to the zoo, they will teach you how to buy a ticket, how to say lion, tell you how jyozu your hashi are. And then the next day they'll bring same print outs from their folders and teach you hiragana. I also don't think YOU will want to do that. You will want them to take you to Osaka/Kyoto/Kobe and you will want to be a tourist and they will gladly take you and show you how to buy takoyaki and you will think ohhh this is soooo cooooooollllll... and it won't mean shit for your language ability.

The truth is a lot of these businesses, and there are a lot, are aimed towards two specific demographics of which neither are "enthusiastic linguistic." Also the location, which I know extensively since I golf with clients in the area often, is extremely inconvenient because every time you will want to get out of the area to a bigger area, it will cost you the entire day. That's another day of no "intensive" study.

For the price, you could actually rent a place in Tokyo for a month (or two) and feed yourself and have access to a million places/people where you can very specifically customize your studies. The downside is you don't have a guaranteed Japanese person with you. But I could write an entire post on why that is dumb/pointless/meaningless.

Unless of course this site you linked, or a similar one like it, actually is everything I would hope it would be. True, honest, intensive 10 hour a day study for a month with an enthusiastic native teacher. If that's the case, that sounds excellent.

In terms of value, $2500 is 1/4-1/5 of the usual tuition for an actual full year of study at a Japanese language school in Tokyo which qualifies you for a student visa and usually offers dormitories. Like I'm picking a random one from google - http://en.kaij.jp/ - and for $2500 you get 3 months of structured study. Now this doesn't include living/food/play, but think about the experience of living in Tokyo, class of international students, ability to experience culture after classes, ability to supplement your studies with said culture.

Very basic TLDR:

If you can actually reach a point of VERY intermediate through personal studies and then did something like the site you linked to really cap off your learning, then it may be worth it. But unless you can confirm that those services offer a highly motivated and disciplined tutor that is willing to cater to your specific learning needs, just fucking around in Japan on your own or in a more traditional school will probably be infinitely more beneficial to your studies and enjoyment.

Thanks for the breakdown and opinion, very much appreciate the honesty. I'll continue learning on my own and consider maybe structured schooling in Japan if I ever do decide to go down that path.

 

[Valkerionseven]

Got a request / question. I and others are having a nonsense time making sense of japanese particles. Does anyone have a link to activities that can help learn them? Talking basic uses at the beginner level to maybe intermediate. I mostly understand when they are used but never hurts to review and also gives me something to do with them when I try and help them practice listening skills.

Something with a basic break down of what your supposed to do in English (while the activity is obviously in Japanese) would be amazing. Either an internet activity or worksheet would be super helpful.

reason I ask is because they are trying to teach Japanese to some of my new co-workers but after about 4 months they are still struggling and the once a week lesson is pretty damn useless since its the Japanese style talking at them and no real practice to nail the concept in their heads.

Their vocabulary is coming along well enough but I feel like I want to help them a bit more with some links to things they can do in their spare time.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

If you wake up at 5AM and study till about 9PM (with obvious breaks) every day for two weeks, you can pass JLPT2. You will have to wing listening as it would be the slowest to study and I'm assuming you've watched at least 1000 hours of illegal anime. There's nothing wrong with any of the lists you provided, just do them. I'm sure those sites have grammar lists too. Do them. Make this last post you read here until next week. Then come backand try to read this:

中国で高速鉄道車両の製造を独占する国有メーカー「中国中車」が、科学技術省の委託を受けて研究・開発に乗り出す。リニア車両を２０年までに開発、２１年にはリニアの交通システムを備えることを目指す。研究開発費は約３２・２億元（約４９０億円）。うち政府財政からは約４・３億元が支援されると報じられた。

If you can read/understand it within 7 seconds, keep pushing the second week and you should be fine. If you can't, you won't pass and you'll have only lost a week.

If you're not exaggerating, 7 seconds to process that chunk of text is impressive. Then again, I've never been a speed reader.

 

[Aeana]

If you wake up at 5AM and study till about 9PM (with obvious breaks) every day for two weeks, you can pass JLPT2. You will have to wing listening as it would be the slowest to study and I'm assuming you've watched at least 1000 hours of illegal anime. There's nothing wrong with any of the lists you provided, just do them. I'm sure those sites have grammar lists too. Do them. Make this last post you read here until next week. Then come backand try to read this:

中国で高速鉄道車両の製造を独占する国有メーカー「中国中車」が、科学技術省の委託を受けて研究・開発に乗り出す。リニア車両を２０年までに開発、２１年にはリニアの交通システムを備えることを目指す。研究開発費は約３２・２億元（約４９０億円）。うち政府財政からは約４・３億元が支援されると報じられた。

If you can read/understand it within 7 seconds, keep pushing the second week and you should be fine. If you can't, you won't pass and you'll have only lost a week.

Admittedly, I'm dyslexic, so I struggle more with reading English than Japanese (it doesn't affect Japanese very much for me), but frankly I can't read either the English part of your post or the Japanese part of your post in 7 seconds!

 

[Aizo]

reason I ask is because they are trying to teach Japanese to some of my new co-workers but after about 4 months they are still struggling and the once a week lesson is pretty damn useless since its the Japanese style talking at them and no real practice to nail the concept in their heads.

Their vocabulary is coming along well enough but I feel like I want to help them a bit more with some links to things they can do in their spare time.

What kind of work is this? Do your coworkers use Japanese on the job every day, too?

 

[I'm an expert]

I mean, I'm reading my post here and actually clicking on google's stopwatch lol. When I first wrote the post I think I wrote something like 15 seconds but thought that's crazy long. I can read that blurb consistently at like 7-8 seconds lol. The English portion is the same. Fine, make it 15 seconds. Are you guys reading it out loud or something? I just mean reading it in your mind using your typical context shortcuts to make reading it quicker.

I just read this above paragraph and it took me seconds. I admit though I'm coming from almost two decades of reading Japanese newspapers/sites/e-mails/work-related shit for probably 5-6 hours a day. But I was genuinely trying to put myself in my whiteboard method shoes and I think at the height of my study I could blow through a tiny paragraph like that in 10 seconds max.

So let's make it 10-15 seconds. Anything above 15 for those 3 sentences would mean you simply don't read enough Japanese, just my personal opinion.

EDIT: WTF Zefah already responded. Proves I don't look at poster names.. wtf.. really.. it's 3 sentences..

Edit #2: and while that post was completely serious I obviously don't think dude is going to do it, nor pass the test

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Hey all!

I spent 2 years learning Japanese in college....about 6 years ago. I never got to a high-level and wasn't pretty bad at any oral exams. However, my vocab was great and I was dynamite at anything written. Though I've forgotten just about most everything, I drilled the basics of Katakana and Hiragana in enough that I still have it all memorized. I'm interested in dusting off my knowledge and getting serious, and wasn't sure if the best method would be to whip out my old Genki textbooks, or start somewhere else...? Just trying to figure out how to proceed. I'm guessing I should treat myself like a complete beginner, and start from step 1 somewhere.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I mean, I'm reading my post here and actually clicking on google's stopwatch lol. When I first wrote the post I think I wrote something like 15 seconds but thought that's crazy long. I can read that blurb consistently at like 7-8 seconds lol. The English portion is the same. Fine, make it 15 seconds. Are you guys reading it out loud or something? I just mean reading it in your mind using your typical context shortcuts to make reading it quicker.

I just read this above paragraph and it took me seconds. I admit though I'm coming from almost two decades of reading Japanese newspapers/sites/e-mails/work-related shit for probably 5-6 hours a day. But I was genuinely trying to put myself in my whiteboard method shoes and I think at the height of my study I could blow through a tiny paragraph like that in 10 seconds max.

So let's make it 10-15 seconds. Anything above 15 for those 3 sentences would mean you simply don't read enough Japanese, just my personal opinion.

EDIT: WTF Zefah already responded. Proves I don't look at poster names.. wtf.. really.. it's 3 sentences..

Edit #2: and while that post was completely serious I obviously don't think dude is going to do it, nor pass the test

I was reading it out loud (well, in my head)! I suppose I should have specified that...

Yeah, typical article/email reading speed (not consciously considering the pronunciation of every individual word) would probably be closer to 10 seconds for me.

 

[ZoronMaro]

I read as fast as I talk, and that's in English my native language. Granted I talk pretty fast, but it takes me more than 15 seconds to read the english part of expert's post. Silencing your internal voice isn't something everyone can do and isn't really a realistic expectation especially for a non-native language no matter how long you've studied.

I haven't taken the JLPT, but is it timed so strictly that reading slowly is a problem? I took speed reading classes for college proficiency tests back in the day but they didn't go well.