CreepingFear
Member
1.8 seconds. Toni Kukoc took the game winner because Phil had no confidence in Scottie to take the last second shot. Best Robin in the history of the game, but not the No 1 guy on any team.
Lebron James' NBA Finals record is now 2-3, fails to 3-peat this year
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1.8 seconds. Toni Kukoc took the game winner because Phil had no confidence in Scottie to take the last second shot. Best Robin in the history of the game, but not the No 1 guy on any team.
Velcro Fly
Member
The very thing he bolted Cleveland to escape has befallen him again in Miami.
Jordan's Bulls were never this bad supporting. He always had Scottie who was great. He always had clutch shooters like Kerr and Paxson. He always had solid other guys like Ron Harper, BJ Armstrong, Bill Cartwright, Dennis Rodman, and Toni Kukoc. If you put LeBron on about 10 different teams they instantly become contenders. This discounts the few already really good teams like Indiana and OKC.
Jordan's Bulls were never this bad supporting. He always had Scottie who was great. He always had clutch shooters like Kerr and Paxson. He always had solid other guys like Ron Harper, BJ Armstrong, Bill Cartwright, Dennis Rodman, and Toni Kukoc. If you put LeBron on about 10 different teams they instantly become contenders. This discounts the few already really good teams like Indiana and OKC.
Lebron was the best player of the series. However, Kawhi turned the tide for the Spurs. They wouldn't have won, at least so decisively, without him.
People look at offense and kinda forget how much a player like Kawhi can mean on defense. And he ended up having a great offensive series as well.
Ninja Scooter
Member
No he was the number 1 guy on a team that had just lost Jordan, had gone to three straight finals and didn't get to take the season off, and the team remained a contender. A single bad moment doesn't change that. Stop being a Skip.
Without a doubt.
benjipwns
Banned
Anyone who thinks Jordan did it all alone needs to learn some basic facts: http://airjudden2.tripod.com/ejf/faq.htm
http://airjudden2.tripod.com/ejf/faq2.htm
http://airjudden2.tripod.com/ejf/faq2.htm
Wade is better offensively than Pippen ever was, and LeBron also has Bosh. The Heat also have the greatest three point shooter ever in Allen.
MetalFearSolid
Banned
Unlike Lebron, Brady can go down as the greatest. He just needs to win a legit ring first.
Yes- but do those past accolades matter, if they don't translate into production in the current series? Take the names off those jerseys and watch this series. They played very mediocre.
SlackAdjuster
Member
And that's all I responded to. I don't think he's a bad guy. But to basically say, "There was nothing wrong with the decision, get over it and wow! He even donated to charity with it!" is pretty uhh well...yeah whatever.
HalfBakedProphet
Member
Wade in his prime? Sure. He's less than a shadow of what he was now. Allen is 38
BadAss2961
Member
This was a great Spurs team, but you're overestimating just how good they were. This is the same team that went 7 games against an 8th seed, and had to fight their way through OKC.
Face it, Miami just got schooled by a team that played better basketball. They got schooled by Dirk too... Doesn't mean Dallas was one of the greatest teams ever.
The get over it part is what I'm objecting to. That was 4 years ago. We've forgotten way worse things for other ahletes.
key thing Jordan nuthuggers seem to overlook.
Pippen on any other team would have made them a championship team. Take away Pippen, Bulls aren't winning.
but nah. MJ did it all on his own. his teammates weren't shit.
SlackAdjuster
Member
I know he won rings in Miami and he obviously didnt in Cleveland but for the regular season, his best Cavs team won 66 games, same as the Heat. Kinda odd when you think about how badly everyone says he had it in Cleveland. Win totals were the same. Just didnt get it done in the playoffs. LeBron era Cavs actually won 61 games once too, which is better than any of the other Heat years (besides the aforementioned 66 win year).
LeBron scored one less point than Wade/Bosh combined in these Finals.
And he was never known as a shoot first guy.
BadAss2961
Member
Stop making up shit. No one said Jordan did it by himself. But unlike LeBron, Jordan never lost when he was supposed to win.
Anyone that loses with LeBron becomes the scapegoat. It's become a pattern... When are you guys gonna realize that maybe he's just not that great? lol
OK, dude. We all get that. We're talking legacy here, not just one playoff series. LeBron has just as much, if not more help, especially considering how fucking weak the competition is (the East is laughable). Jordan had tougher competition, and arguably a worse team. No one's arguing that Jordan did it alone, but the idea that LeBron is in the same situation that he was in in Cleveland is just plain wrong.
Tell me the second best player on that team with a straight face. Then the third. Then the fourth.
I thought no way in hell lebron leaves Miami before tonight, but I kinda do now.
I thought he wouldn't want to endure another round of media and fan ridicule for chasing another team and more stars but his demeanor and then some of his comments about not wanting to rebuild makes me think he just might bolt.
Wade opts in, no question. The guy is not walking away from 42 mil. Bosh is a question mark. The rest of the team needs to be rebuilt and will be. But does lebron want to give Reilly and Spo a commitment with the hope they acquire enough pieces in one offseason to rebuild their bench and acquire some key role players?
I thought he wouldn't want to endure another round of media and fan ridicule for chasing another team and more stars but his demeanor and then some of his comments about not wanting to rebuild makes me think he just might bolt.
Wade opts in, no question. The guy is not walking away from 42 mil. Bosh is a question mark. The rest of the team needs to be rebuilt and will be. But does lebron want to give Reilly and Spo a commitment with the hope they acquire enough pieces in one offseason to rebuild their bench and acquire some key role players?
LeBron played really well these Finals, but he should have played better. Still, I doubt that even if he had a Jordan-esque series with over 40ppg that the Heat would win. The Spurs were just better.
The Heat have no one other than LeBron James that you can rely on consistently. Dude took like 15 shots a game and averaged 28. This is one Finals performance that I won't hold against him as much.
The Heat have no one other than LeBron James that you can rely on consistently. Dude took like 15 shots a game and averaged 28. This is one Finals performance that I won't hold against him as much.
SlackAdjuster
Member
I think most are, but that pretty much opened up the flood gates. And the not 3, not 4, not 5 not 6, and all that stuff that followed. The Heatles! You're gonna devise a plan and join up with 2 other perennial all stars and make all these boasts and claims and all that, prepare for the criticism its going to bring when you don't get it done. Its really kind of unprecedented.
BadAss2961
Member
I think Bosh will walk. If Miami doesn't get Melo and some other help, I think LeBron will too. He'll either set up another super team or go back to Cleveland and play with Kyrie and Wiggins.
SlackAdjuster
Member
We can do that and of course the players dont add up, thats not my point. My point is, the win totals were the same. And really in the past few years I can argue in a weaker east. I'm not saying the Cavs had better talent. Of course they didnt, but at least as far as the regular season, the song remained the same (or better in some cases). How do you explain that?
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Jordan got a DPOY.
Are you for real?
The same Steve Kerr that averaged 8.2 PPG for the Bulls? The same Ron Harper with his 7.9 PPG? What points did Rodman put up with again?
Do I need to show you the PPG Bosh, Wade, and Allen have playing for the Heat?
Who is saying this? Pippen was great, Rodman is a hall of famer, Phil is a coaching legend. And he had some great shooters on his team during both 3 peats who came up big in spots. Anyone who says Jordan did it all on his own is dumb.
It's just that anyone who says Lebron comes close to MJ is even dumber.
I'll give you tougher competition...but Jordan didn't have a worse team. I wish people would stop with this.
Kukoc, Rodman, Kerr, Pippen, Harper is not worse than James, Wade, Bosh, Allen annnnnd?
Keep bringing up the players only....Jordan had Phil on the bench for everyone of his rings.
How did the bulls win so many games this year? Competition in the regular season isn't perfect. Teams play with different energy. Regular season is a horrible metric often for playoff success, in terms of pure Ws and Ls.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Actually a good point. If LeBron managed to take THAT Cavs roster to 60+ wins multiple times, imagine what he would have done with a decent team. Even just a .500 team. Instead he got his elite prime early-mid 20s years shackled to one of the worst franchises in sports, just a terrible team. Can anyone deny that he would've chipped once or twice in those years if he landed on a decent team?
Heat could of been in the game tonight..but with the Spurs down 7 Lebron decided to be invisible and entire 2nd quarter and half of the 3rd..and the game was a wrap. He had 4 points in that span and did nothing to stop any Spurs momentum. He's the best player in the world. Then the games totally out of reach and starts putting up shots.
I didn't say he had a worse team. I said, arguably, which only shows that LeBron's help is great too. Come on, people, this is a Heat team that went to four straight finals, and won two straight. LeBron has help. This was just a bad year for them. Let's not over analyze here.
MetalFearSolid
Banned
Miami Heat are like the Denver Broncos they got dominated in the Super Bowl respectively and realize they can't beat NFC West teams so they retool and reload. Broncos on paper look so deep they should make some noise this season as well. Miami Heat realized that West teams can cause them problems now it means they gotta reload.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
^
This
From leaving Cleveland, to THE DECISION, then to comments during the pep rally
You don't put a HUGE FUCKING BULLS-EYE on your back then go why people trying to shoot at us?
You don't go out of your way and call yourself King without having won nothing (before winning it in 2012)
If James called himself King James last year or the year before after winning it, it would sound right, no one would even be mad about it
Shit like that doesn't do you any favors
Kukoc, Kerr, Harper are not household B-Ball names, they were role players
Jordan with his play and ferocity made those players name stand out
They were not fucking established players, who got asked to join up and run the league together
James, Wade, Bosh, Allen are names that are known
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Ya'll really gotta stop acting like its 2011 and Wade is averaging 25 points still. He's on the decline. He played like 15 games this season in an attempt to save himself for the playoffs and he was still a husk when the Finals came.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Exactly.
I'm a Heat fan and we won back-to-back rings. Now people are coming out of the woodwork saying Bron doesn't have help.
I must be in a Twilight Zone episode.
Ninja Scooter
Member
LeBron made it to a Finals with Larry Hughes as his 2nd banana. Larry Hughes.
We're not talking about just this year. We're talking about this Heat team in general.
i don't care about lebron.
it's this nostalgic view of Jordan and how "this would have never happened with Jordan!" that bothers me. You would think he was Bill Russell who won titles for 90% of his seasons played and that he shot 100%. dude had one of the most stacked teams during the 90s. no shit they weren't gonna lose
"No one said Jordan did it by himself.....Jordan never lost when he was supposed to win"
that kind of contradicts by the way, as it discredits the rest of his team that was capable of winning 55 games without him.
Jordan got a DPOY while Scottie guarded the main guy. Hhmm...
Hall of Fame acceptance speech
So you only go by averages? Points at that? Rodman didn't average alot of points....but averaged 15 rebounds a game...played D on PF and hustled his ass off. He didn't go to the Hall of Fame because of points...he went because he was the Worm. Steve Kerr is considered one of the greatest 3 point shooters of all time. They're called ROLE players for a reason...they play a role. Jordan had some of the better ones you could get.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
The Heat have the best 3pt shooter of all time in Allen.
Wade, Bosh, Allen > Kerr, Rodman, Kukoc
It's clear as day to me.
In general, Wade's lazy hail mary gamble defense never helped as much as Pippen's consistent and stellar team defense SEE HERE .
jordan0386
Member
MJ reaaaalllly didn't have tougher comp, honestly.
In those six chips, there were only like 3 instances where a guard avg over 20 on the bulls.
MJ schooled his match ups and the teams played lock down D, for the most part.
The scoring was really spread out in the 90s.
MJ was two levels above 99 percent of the guards in the league.
BadAss2961
Member
Except he didn't. I love Pippen, but he was never thought of as an all-time great player while the Bulls were in their heyday. It was mostly after the dynasty that he went from greatest wingman to being credited as a top 50 guy.
I think he deserves it. But even still, the Bulls were never stacked like this Miami team is on paper.
benjipwns
Banned
Hey buddy, that team also had Drew Gooden, Eric Snow and Sasha Pavlovic regularly starting!
Not to mention Donyell Marshall a year after his three point shot deserted him.
Not this years Wade. Ditto with Allen. They were great once, yes. But its like when Barkley teamed up with Pippen, or when everyone wagoned the Shaq lakers that one year. MJ will always remain at the top of the list, but dude had legit teams.
Its silly to try to measure Rodman by his scoring.
Actually that is one thing I'd like to see, LeBron with a prime time defender, or a big center. LeBron and Dwight would've been a lot more interesting than Wade and Bosh to me.
They have Ray at the end of his career. Boston Ray was leagues better than the Ray here. But, hey, he's still Ray.
Rodman mops the floor with Bosh. I couldn't see anyone who knows about Bball pick Bosh over Rodman. That's a landslide difference.
It should be Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc....that's better than Wade, Bosh, Allen.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Also the way the Heat team takes defeat is crazy
They just give up, their body language proves it
I mean did you see D-Wade get that 3 point call, flailing and just have the mentality of fuck it, we losing any way, why not try stupid shit
All I see from the Heat is that they lost their hunger, LeBron got his 1st and 2nd chip, so everything now is just coasting
They just give up, their body language proves it
I mean did you see D-Wade get that 3 point call, flailing and just have the mentality of fuck it, we losing any way, why not try stupid shit
All I see from the Heat is that they lost their hunger, LeBron got his 1st and 2nd chip, so everything now is just coasting
MiamiWesker
Member
Irish enters the fight. Nothing we say will change some peoples mind, Lebron is the most horrible person in the world to some. Oh well.
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