Legend of Korra Book 4: Balance |OT| A Feast of Crows
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Prophet Steve
Member
Nobody knows, depends on when it gets leaked.
Edag Plata
Banned
It just wasn't interesting at all. I think after three years of these villains they knock out in a few episodes, the threat didn't excite me at all. Also, there was really no direction. It's more like Tales of the Avatar rather than the big sequel to The Last Airbender. It doesn't feel "legendary" like the title suggests.
It's not bad at all, it's just not that interesting to me. The thing I liked about book 1 was that it kept things stupid simple. We just had the characters, they were doing their thing, there was a unique villain and it would have been better as just a miniseries. Books 2 and 3 to me just felt like them keeping going when they should have just stopped before jumping all over the place with this story, that story, this side character, that side character.
The beauty about Avatar was that even when they did side stories, they were always focused on the Avatar and his tight nit group. Korra just feels all over the place and there's too much going on for me to care about any of it.
But again, I'm here for book 4 with no complaints, so its not like I hate it. I just think Avatar is vastly superior and I'm spoiled by it.
TacticalFox88
Banned
There's something I've noticed that I don't feel like making a thread for.
For those who watch anime, have you noticed that Western Pacing vs Eastern pacing? Like fight scenes in some anime can literally take entire episodes (DBZ is nowhere even close to the only example that does this), yet I'm watching Clone Wars 3D, most fights are about five-seven minutes, IF that. I've literally never seen a Western animated show come close to the awful pacing of some of Japan's most well known works. Same goes with story arcs, dramatic and long camera panning, etc.
Anyone know what the deal is? Or anything related to the phenomena?
For those who watch anime, have you noticed that Western Pacing vs Eastern pacing? Like fight scenes in some anime can literally take entire episodes (DBZ is nowhere even close to the only example that does this), yet I'm watching Clone Wars 3D, most fights are about five-seven minutes, IF that. I've literally never seen a Western animated show come close to the awful pacing of some of Japan's most well known works. Same goes with story arcs, dramatic and long camera panning, etc.
Anyone know what the deal is? Or anything related to the phenomena?
Well theres a lot less shows of Avatars or Star Wars caliber in general so shows like that are usually very high budget compared to most shounen manga which goes on indefinitely until the manga ends and have to pad it out as to not surpass it.
Yep one of the best parts of the trailers apart of that new footage goodness.
He really nailed the Book 3 score and its by far his best work yet and yet i'm still sad in the fact that Nick are yet to release the ost for Book 2 and 3.
I really badly want those soundtracks please Nick.
Well I appreciate the honest reply. Was just curious. I personally loved Book 3, but I kind of feel it was a bit aimless in spots (in the larger context). The show has never found it's footing with the group dynamic. In ATLA the side stories worked because the characters were so strong, and individually they would be impacted by the side story (so it did matter). So not only were the little side plots fun/interesting, they actually elevated the characters.
Book 3 of Korra we kind of saw the characters slide to the background again. The Zaheer stuff was also kind of strange how it was in the background, and it wasn't until the back half that Korra was even aware that there was a major conflict she needed to deal with. I guess I still enjoyed each episode itself though. Like I personally thought each episode had good pacing/structure, and had enjoyable plot (whereas I thought Book 2 was not only enjoyable, but each episode fell apart on a structure/pacing level). But I can agree in the larger context, it was still missing that connective link that brings things together.
Korra will always be dogged by the problem that, the writers don't really know how to balance (lol no pun intended) all the various plot elements and characters they have thrown into this show. While I personally think Book 3 was good on an episode to episode basis, I can also agree that it was still kind of fumbling around the larger elements.
Prophet Steve
Member
Many of the very long anime are based on manga stories, some which are still ongoing. So they draw out everything so that new manga can be produced while they are developing shows.
You have plenty of anime with shorter fights which are usually also shorter shows. Such as Fullmetal Alchemist or Hunter X Hunter.
Edag Plata
Banned
That's basically exactly how I felt. It's hard to really put my finger on it as well as you did because they are so many little things that just chip away, little by little, at my enjoyment of the show now. It's just makes for a lower quality show.
Like, there's almost too many characters now. Korra did what for Book 3? Like, she wasn't annoying, thank goodness, but she was hardly important.
Hmm. I think it's kind of interesting how, a major part of Book 3 was the re-birth of the Air nation. That was like a major plot. But then you had Zaheer. And Zaheer wasn't really related to this plot (outside of him getting airbending as a result of what she did. So I guess it was like a case of: her actions caused something great, and something bad at the same time. It tied in that way I suppose). Point is, I never felt the air bending nation plot was as fleshed out as it could be. Because it couldn't. The focus shifted to Zaheer in the back half.
I can't help but wonder, if the sole focus of the season was the air benders, and Korra helping Tenzin re-train them, if it would have made for a stronger season. Like the air nation plot would have been fleshed out more. And it would have allowed the characters to get a bit more focus themselves. Maybe if they would have tied Zaheer's plot directly to this (ie. he wasn't about chaos, but had some issue with the air nation coming back instead). I dunno.
Basically, I feel like you had two strong plot points. But I wonder if both weren't as great as they could have been, since the focus was kind of shifted away from them to support the other.
I'm guessing the budget would definitely have an effect on that as Korra has a much much bigger budget than most anime shows would ever get.
Plus as DedValve said with certain shounen shows that are based on mangas that are still ongoing they often slow down the pace or fill it up with fillers so they don't overrun them for example Naruto.
I sure it'll be good as they seem to have found their groove now after the stumbles in Book 2.
I'll definitely enjoy the final ride though. Still crazy to think its almost finished now.
They also dropped the whole humans and spirits live together thing after just 1 episode. Really harmonic convergence was waaaay to dramatic in its change and we had to deal with the red lotus, the airbending nation reprise and the spirits living in the physical world.
Eventually they (rightly imo) decided to go with the more bombtastic red lotus. Being tied to 13 episodes suck.
Eventually they (rightly imo) decided to go with the more bombtastic red lotus. Being tied to 13 episodes suck.
Yeah, it's kind of a weird season in terms of the overall structure. If it wasn't like, my personal enjoyment of each individual episode, I would have not liked the season very much (just in terms of how they handled plot/themes in a larger sense).
So I can understand the criticisms. I still find it strange that they would have Harmonic Convergence be a Book 2 plot. Imagine if that was THE FINAL season plot. IMO it would be more fitting.
Padding. It's a vicious combination of not wanting to end the manga because of its popularity and the show not wanting to overtake the manga because that's where they get their material from. Recently, anime has grown more accustomed to dividing their shows into seasons, but it only solves part of the problem, as most manga are still set up to be a long running series. I guess the anime & manga industry is very similar to the AAA gaming industry in some ways.
That's why, similar to movies, I prefer original ideas more than adaptations but of course I don't hate them for simply being adaptations.
NinjaCatfish
Member
Watched through Korra, then Avatar over the last month and a bit. I am so disappointed that I wrote both off as children's junk for so long. I was so wrong .______.
I am here for Book 4, will be incredible and excruciating watching the show week by week.
I am here for Book 4, will be incredible and excruciating watching the show week by week.
Isn't the whole purpose of an anime adaptation, just to get more readers for the Manga? And that's why there are so many ONE off seasons (because they want you to then go read the manga after being hooked, and not getting resolution or the continuation of the plot). Plus anime cost a lot more to make than manga.
Prophet Steve
Member
I don't think so, but I don't know anything about the manga industry.
But are those shows with one off seasons really the same shows as those with the long drawn out fights?
Er, I guess I shouldn't have said the SOLE purpose. Obviously there are stand alone anime shows. But I think it's one of the reason anime adaptations exists. Unless I'm wrong. Which I probably am.
Not in my experience. The long drawn out nonsense tends to be in episodes of anime based on long-running action manga like Dragon Ball or Bleach or Naruto or One Piece.
Might as well put this here I suppose.
Wall of Shame for the Book 3 thread.
I MADE IT!!! I'm so happy.
Azula said:
I tend to avoid watching anime that are adaptations of manga for this very reason. Shonen anime is the only genre that really suffers from this. Other series are a lot more compact.
I don't post in these threads much but i often lurk (reading disscusions and waiting for a book 4 trailer haha). Honestly, I barely remember anything that happens in book 2 and i'd like to keep it that way. I loved book 3 after being really skeptical, so I hope they can keep up the positive momentum.
I guess it depends on the series? Looking at more recent shows, your idea does seem likely. But back then, I don't remember anime being divided into seasons and the usual trend was adaptations not waiting for the manga to end and instead making up their own ending arc. (Thinking of GTO, Fullmetal Alchemist)
My reply to your post was kind of weird. I actually agree 100% with what you said. I was just kind of making a side comment.
The Purple Pill
Member
isn't it odd that we are less than 2 weeks away from season 4 start off, but there's no trailer, would it be expected to hit the web at the latest on the coming Friday, one week away, or is Nick going to try save money on that as well, and just make it a teaser trailer, and/or perhaps a quick recap of the best scenes from all past seasons, and then add, "And now for the continuation, Friday 4th of October!"?
making a trailer is expensive too, is Nick willing?
making a trailer is expensive too, is Nick willing?
Daria Morgendorffer
Member
I really hope book 4 will show us a glimpse of the Fire Nation.
isn't it odd that we are less than 2 weeks away from season 4 start off, but there's no trailer, would it be expected to hit the web at the latest on the coming Friday, one week away, or is Nick going to try save money on that as well, and just make it a teaser trailer, and/or perhaps a quick recap of the best scenes from all past seasons, and then add, "And now for the continuation, Friday 4th of October!"?
making a trailer is expensive too, is Nick willing?
Book 3 had a trailer released and it started a week after the trailer. lol
You do have a point though when it comes to adaptations that have one off seasons. I never thought of that. Like Attack on Titan and Knights of Sidonia, for example, really did make me read the manga out of impatience.
Ok, back to Korra...
Prophet Steve
Member
Er, I guess I shouldn't have said the SOLE purpose. Obviously there are stand alone anime shows. But I think it's one of the reason anime adaptations exists. Unless I'm wrong. Which I probably am.
That may be the case, hasn't been with any of the shows I have seen but I don't see a whole lot of anime, especially recent stuff.
But the long drawn out fights are with the ones that use it to pad themselves out so they keep up with the manga.
Chezzymann
Member
Guys I'm gonna explode, Korra and Smash Bros. 4 on the same day. What do I do to contain all this hype?!?
The Purple Pill
Member
Didn't even realize that was the case. Gah damn.
I didn't like book 3. Book 1 had the most promise if they continued with Amon.
Book 3 just felt just as rushed as the previous 2. We get villains who we know nothing about and any information about them besides "2/3" is just to further the plot. Why are these guys as fanatical as they are? Zaheer was able to enter the void so fast. Also, Aang was able to fly as well. He did it in the finale of TLA. It honestly didn't make much sense other than to cripple Korra. Any time they said secret society I cringed the fuck up.
Avatar was memorable because even though the characters were corny at times they had personality and charm. Korra is trying to be serious and failing at it. The strengths that made TLA a fan favorite are no where to be seen in Korra.
Book 3 just felt just as rushed as the previous 2. We get villains who we know nothing about and any information about them besides "2/3" is just to further the plot. Why are these guys as fanatical as they are? Zaheer was able to enter the void so fast. Also, Aang was able to fly as well. He did it in the finale of TLA. It honestly didn't make much sense other than to cripple Korra. Any time they said secret society I cringed the fuck up.
Avatar was memorable because even though the characters were corny at times they had personality and charm. Korra is trying to be serious and failing at it. The strengths that made TLA a fan favorite are no where to be seen in Korra.
The show has always failed at villains having depth. We didn't know jack about Amon the entire time. He was a great villain because:
I. He had great presence. On a surface level, he was menacing as hell. And you feared him.
II. He had a movement behind him, that was pretty complex (or seemed to be) with regards to social issues.
But in the end, Amon's entire motivation/backstory was boiled down to a 5 min exposition that felt hamfisted, and really undermined a lot of what we thought he was going for.
Unalaq was evil just to be evil. The only thing we know about him, is that he always had a deep spiritual connection. That he felt the world was out of balance. But we also see that he was willing to betray his brother at an early age. That he was conspiring with the Red Lotus to hurt his own flesh and blood. And ultimately, he just wanted to become a god like figure that destroyed light (so again, evil just to be evil). Unalaq failed because, he wasn't even an interesting villain on a surface level (he had no presence, and wasn't fun to watch). And he really had no motivation.
Zaheer IMO had presence like Amon (maybe not as cool, but he was still a lot of fun to watch, especially with his group that had amazing fight sequences). I actually think, as rushed as Zaheer was, we probably got more motivation from his character than Amon and Unalaq. While we don't know HOW he came to believe in his philosophies, we knew what they were, and why he was trying to pursue them (because he believed it was the only way for the world to move forward and be free).
I think Zaheer's plot would have worked more if:
I. They had done an episode showing us his origins (how he came to believe his philosophies).
II. If they did a better job connecting Zaheer and the Red Lotus's philosophies to the changing world (ie. how there is a push around the world to no longer be under a monarch or kingdom). It's kind of strange in hindsight, because the Ba Sing Se stuff with the Queen kind of felt tacked on. Not even Zaheer seemed interested in it (his goal was to get Korra, and him killing the Queen was just an after thought).
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
So is Korrasami confirmed now or what
Yeah, Nick is just dumping the show now. Since they are going all digital, there was no reason to worry about "scheduling". Usually shows that are finished, are held off from airing right away because networks have to plan out their TV show schedules (they strategize when programs come out during certain times of the year, so they can try to make the most money off ads with their schedule blocking).
Plus, Nick just wants to dump this IP as it no longer lines up with the networks target demographics.
Nope and they'll never go down that path as long as its on Nick but that never stop the shippers.
haha Yep Book 3 started back in late June and only finished about a month ago so it was a real surprsise when Nick decided to air Book 4 in October all of a sudden as rumours had it pegged at an early Jan release for Book 4.
Unalaq wasn't evil for the sake of evil. It's basically a given he was seduced or whatever you want to call it by evil spirit guy in tree. How that came to be is bonkers but whatever.
We got hamfisted backstory for Amon. We didn't get anything like that for Zaheer. All we got was he was possibly a guard for his previous master who went into the Spirit World (in case spirits took over his body) and that he saved his waifu from a warlord. If we don't know why he has these beliefs we don't know Zaheer. He turns into BAD GUY WHO WANTS BAD THINGS DONE BECAUSE HE HAD PHILOSOPHIES. It's lazy writing. You need to detail why he wants these things done. Amon had that done for him. We know why he wants to take over republic city (even if it was comically bad). Zaheer and Anarchy Squad have nothing.
Season 3 only did right by Korra and co. development. It's not great development but it's some. Jinora was the spotlight while everyone else just, you know, got frustrated and hit things. Should be called "Legend of Jinora" as, even though she's not super well written, she's easily the only character on the show with actual growth to her. Tenzin would be second. Everyone else is basically the same as when they first appeared.
Prophet Steve
Member
Ricky Ricardo
Member
WAIT WHAT
HOW IS SEASON 4 HAPPENING ALREADY?!
HOW IS SEASON 4 HAPPENING ALREADY?!
paradox121
Member
Can't wait for this. Slight sadness that this has been thrown out with the least amount of reverence and import but whatever.
Man, seeing that gif after all the FFXV stuff makes me want some kind of Avatar/Korra RPG. Exploring an open world, battling with elemental powers in some kind of real time battle system. Now Im sad
Man, seeing that gif after all the FFXV stuff makes me want some kind of Avatar/Korra RPG. Exploring an open world, battling with elemental powers in some kind of real time battle system. Now Im sad
Crazy ins't it a little over a month after Book 3 ended and we're already getting Book 4.
Man, seeing that gif after all the FFXV stuff makes me want some kind of Avatar/Korra RPG. Exploring an open world, battling with elemental powers in some kind of real time battle system. Now Im sad
Yeah I would just absolutely love an open world avatar game just to explore the world that they've made.
But still we've got the Plantinum Korra game coming out pretty soon which i'm sure will be great hopefully considering the studio behind it.
So that's something for the time being.
I can verify this is true through my personal anecdotal evidence with highschool of the dead.
Though that show really need to continue so I can see breasts animate to dodge bullets some more.
boobbending. Do it asami.
Unalaq was seduced even back when he betrayed his brother? Even when he planned to kidnap Korra as a baby with the red lotus? Not really buying that he was seduced tbh. It was laid out that the guy was always a liar and was putting on a front. He always had bad intentions without an explanation why. Hence why I said he was evil just to be evil.
At least with Zaheer he stated his philosophy and believed it was the right path for the world to move in. I would have liked to know how he came to believe in these philosophies, absolutely. But I still feel Zaheer had more going on for him than Unalaq. And on a surface level he was much more fun to watch.
UnnecessaryTodd
Member
I loved Book 3 of Korra. I thought it was the only season of Korra that even came close to the quality of ATLA
Season ranking:
Aang Book 3 > Aang Book 2 > Korra Book 3 > Aang Book 1 >>>>>>>>>> Korra Book 1 > Korra Book 2
But there are still a lot of problems with the Korra series as a whole and I think it entirely boils down to the characters. They just aren't as good as the ATLA characters. Not even close.
My theory is that it's all about maturity. One of the best things about ATLA was that they were these 12-15 year old kids who, while having some very childish moments, were still able to act with incredible maturity. When a young character acts mature it impresses the viewer and you think "Man, these are such great characters!" and when a young character acts immature, you're not surprised because they're young and it lends itself to being more humorous.
The problem with Korra is that these characters are all much much older and so if they act mature you think "good, as they should" and when they act immature it can just be cringe-worthy and just make you think "why?! Why would anyone act like that it's so stupid!?".
So even if Korra is at its best as a show, I think the characters are too weak (Or at least have been presented in a fundamentlaly wrong way) for it to come close to ATLA quality. This maturity dissonance is really obvious with characters like Bolin, Tenzin, Bumi and Korra. Their faults aren't excusable and it feels like the writers are still writing for younger characters.
I mean, just take a look at the more popular (From what I've seen here and on other sites) characters of Korra: Asami, Suyin, Kya, General Iroh and obviously the bad guys in The Red Lotus and Amon, While they may have some silly or funny or light-hearted moments (e.g Ghazan in the truck, General Iroh getting flustered) they are all competent, relatively mature and believable characters for their age. Asami especially is one of the most popular characters and it's because she's strong without being headstrong, she's smart without being arrogant and she's resourceful instead of Korra's "Smash it until I win" strategy. She's probably the closest thing to Aang that we have.
The anomaly here is Mako, who's contrasted maturity seems to be his only character trait making him a stick in the mud. And to an extent Lin who while badass at times has had irreparable damage done to her character in Season 2.
tl;dr Korra has too many characters that aren't mature enough for the ages they're portrayed in and it creates dissonance and causes the series as a whole to suffer.
Season ranking:
Aang Book 3 > Aang Book 2 > Korra Book 3 > Aang Book 1 >>>>>>>>>> Korra Book 1 > Korra Book 2
But there are still a lot of problems with the Korra series as a whole and I think it entirely boils down to the characters. They just aren't as good as the ATLA characters. Not even close.
My theory is that it's all about maturity. One of the best things about ATLA was that they were these 12-15 year old kids who, while having some very childish moments, were still able to act with incredible maturity. When a young character acts mature it impresses the viewer and you think "Man, these are such great characters!" and when a young character acts immature, you're not surprised because they're young and it lends itself to being more humorous.
The problem with Korra is that these characters are all much much older and so if they act mature you think "good, as they should" and when they act immature it can just be cringe-worthy and just make you think "why?! Why would anyone act like that it's so stupid!?".
So even if Korra is at its best as a show, I think the characters are too weak (Or at least have been presented in a fundamentlaly wrong way) for it to come close to ATLA quality. This maturity dissonance is really obvious with characters like Bolin, Tenzin, Bumi and Korra. Their faults aren't excusable and it feels like the writers are still writing for younger characters.
I mean, just take a look at the more popular (From what I've seen here and on other sites) characters of Korra: Asami, Suyin, Kya, General Iroh and obviously the bad guys in The Red Lotus and Amon, While they may have some silly or funny or light-hearted moments (e.g Ghazan in the truck, General Iroh getting flustered) they are all competent, relatively mature and believable characters for their age. Asami especially is one of the most popular characters and it's because she's strong without being headstrong, she's smart without being arrogant and she's resourceful instead of Korra's "Smash it until I win" strategy. She's probably the closest thing to Aang that we have.
The anomaly here is Mako, who's contrasted maturity seems to be his only character trait making him a stick in the mud. And to an extent Lin who while badass at times has had irreparable damage done to her character in Season 2.
tl;dr Korra has too many characters that aren't mature enough for the ages they're portrayed in and it creates dissonance and causes the series as a whole to suffer.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
That's probably because this is written like a tv show instead of an straight almost word to word animated adaptation of manga, which generally are not written as well as a television show or film. Especially considering that the majority retain the inner monologues....oh god the inner monologues...and the exposition that explains nearly every little detail that leaves nothing to the imagination.
Well, we know Unalaq's ultimate goal was to open the portals and let Vaatu free so he could become some Dark Avatar and rule or whatever. When that began is irrelevant because that was his motivation (as it is presented in the show) the entire time. Could have been after Red Lotus dudes were caught during Amon's rebellion. We know at least why Unalaq did what he did and it and it made sense even though it was still awful evil guy doing evil thangs.
Zaheer has no depth. He says the same thing over and over. He reminds me of Stevo from SLC punk without any depth or pay-off to the character. Zaheer had nothing going for him. He's Amon and Unalaq without a backstory. Zaheer story wise is less developed than Amon and Unalaq.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Aren't they necessary part of world building though?
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