They were the two biggest scum reads I had. I was certain at least one of them was caught red-handed.
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Legend of Zelda Mafia |OT| A Lynch to the Past
- Thread starter Sawneeks
- Start date
Why do you consider it unlikely we caught two scum though? Purely by the odds?
The math argument. It is unlikely, yes, but possible. You are very quick to assume a defensive stance with the shade throwing. Why so deflective? You avoid straight answers to our questions and instead choose to discredit us, with accusations that could be thrown at anyone. I'd say that there is nothing strange about examining CCS over again. His behavior was strange, confusing, anti-town at best.
I feel mostly ok about the x:59 unvotes (from acohrs). The gap between those and the x:58 votes felt like a lifetime, and although I didn't get another vote down I was damn close to it by the time the stalemate broke. I think scum would have been quicker to "break the tie", unless there were multiple scum waiting to do so in the last minute (possible but would be a pretty risky play).
I guess that all goes out the window if it turns out CCS is also scum.
From the votes discussed today, I'd have to agree that melon's looks the worst right now. I'm also still interested in CCS and AbsoluteBro.
I have every intention of re-reading those two
I guess that all goes out the window if it turns out CCS is also scum.
From the votes discussed today, I'd have to agree that melon's looks the worst right now. I'm also still interested in CCS and AbsoluteBro.
I have every intention of re-reading those two
On day 1 reads though? It wasn't exactly typical scum behaviour either...
This just feels weirdly confident, and you're similarly certain that they aren't both scum.
Fine, if you guys are all so certain about this.
VOTE: CCS
AbsolutBro
Member
RIP Fran and Sorian. ;_;
Welcome Terrabyte!
And before you ask, I unvoted because "Unvote" is faster to type the "Vote: Acohrs" when I was up against the time limit.
Welcome Terrabyte!
I voted late, and by pure chance voted during Acohrs's vote. I even explained in my vote why I picked CCS over Acohrs, even though I wasn't sure either was scum. My vote and unvote (when I realized my vote caused a mess), were two GAF minutes apart, and given GAF's minute post timer I unvoted as fast as I could.
And before you ask, I unvoted because "Unvote" is faster to type the "Vote: Acohrs" when I was up against the time limit.
ice cold
FWIW though I agree with you here. I cannot imagine both Acohrs AND CCS are scum, otherwise why discuss Rugby of all things in the game thread and not scum chat?
I made a mistake during end day, honestly. I had multiple tabs open trying to track the thread while I posted. It is how I ended up posting a count that was wrong by the time I posted it.
The only thief I have played with previously was in Star Wars, and they were neutral. Given that the thief stole an item you label a "beneficial one for town", I find it unlikely that the thief is town-aligned.
That's... an interesting 180 given how adamant you were that he wasn't scum just a moment again. Meh.
melonrabbit
Member
RIP Sorian and Fran
I work until a little before six. Had to stay later, sorry. And yes, I honestly didn't think acohrs would be that obvious as scum.
See above.
So, what's up with this post? I get throwing me under the bus was popular yesterday. But what's you reason to name Natiko as scum? Or Cabot as trustworthy?
Oh. Wait. You've already made up. CCS you are giving me whiplash here.
Also, not sure how I feel about Nin's sudden appearance at D1's end and CzarTim and him joining up to sink acohrs.
I see no reason not to vote CCS today. But I'll give you a chance to explain.
Hey guys what's up?
I work until a little before six. Had to stay later, sorry. And yes, I honestly didn't think acohrs would be that obvious as scum.
See above.
So, what's up with this post? I get throwing me under the bus was popular yesterday. But what's you reason to name Natiko as scum? Or Cabot as trustworthy?
Oh. Wait. You've already made up. CCS you are giving me whiplash here.
Also, not sure how I feel about Nin's sudden appearance at D1's end and CzarTim and him joining up to sink acohrs.
I see no reason not to vote CCS today. But I'll give you a chance to explain.
What do you mean by that? I thought thieves worked by picking a person and stealing whatever (if anything) they were carrying.
I agree though that the thief is probably not town. I meant to ask if thieves were scum or neutral because the second kill hints at a neutral killer which to me makes a neutral thief more unlikely thus scum thief more likely.
I still trust Natiko so I believe there is a thief. Ofc, if he's lying this could be a play to make us think there's a thief.
"WHY DID YOU VOTE FOR CCS, IS IT BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM AND TRIED TO GET RID OF HIM"
"Nah, I thought he was scum. But if not, I'll take off the vote."
"WHY DID YOU TAKE YOUR VOTE OFF OF CCS? IS IT BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM?"
"No. I'll put the vote back on CCS then if you believe so."
"AHA! HE PUT THE VOTE ON CCS, A CLASSIC SCUM TELL! BOOK 'IM, DANNO"
I think what AB is saying is that Natiko received an item beneficial to town. This implies, but does not confirm, that the giver of the item is also on our side (Why would Natiko be given knowledge that the item is beneficial if the giver wasn't?) and that thief is most likely not on our side (What use is a town aligned thief? Unless they're also a pseudo cop)
Of course, this assumes Natiko is telling the truth to begin with, which we have no way of confirming right now.
melonrabbit
Member
So, I'm understanding. Someone picked Natiko to give an item and someone else also picked Natiko to attempt to steal from on the same night, correct?
That is what Natiko is claiming, yes. One person gave him an item, one person stole that item.
melonrabbit
Member
AbsolutBro
Member
Well, given that the item is beneficial to town, I think we can agree that the person who gave it to Natiko is not scum; they will either be town or a town-aligned neutral. Occam's Razor to me says town.
So we have a town item giver. Why would the thief, then, be town? It would be a town thief stealing from (hopefully) town players, given items by another town player. That makes no sense, as it removes agency from the town item-giver.
The only way a town thief makes sense is if there are scum item-givers or scum players that start with items. Neither of which are likely scenarios given:
1. A scum item giver would not give a town player an item that is beneficial to them. Scum wants to kill town, not help them.
2. A town-thief would have to be extremely lucky to steal from a scum-item-starter. And given the only items I have seen (in Star Wars, granted) were one-shot, it would mean the town thief would have to steal a one-shot item from a scum player before the scum player used it.
So the thief is, at the very least, unlikely to be town-aligned give that there is a far, far greater chance that the item-giver is a town player.
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
i dont know about others, but i wont be putting much stock into the last minute voting shenanigans, being only able to look at it all only in retrospect, its a narrative mess, and its just too easy to invent and justify any reasoning behind peoples action at the time, that pulling any truth from the fiasco will be an unreliable effort.
its still fun to see others interpretations though.
the little voice in the back of my head is telling that CCS is still scum, and that his and Achors interactions yesterday was them doubling down in the hopes of it all being considered to scummy to be scum.
but then this little voice is flighty, lets see if it stays that way.
in other news bronxman is now blaming others for his poor play, isnt this fun.
its still fun to see others interpretations though.
the little voice in the back of my head is telling that CCS is still scum, and that his and Achors interactions yesterday was them doubling down in the hopes of it all being considered to scummy to be scum.
but then this little voice is flighty, lets see if it stays that way.
in other news bronxman is now blaming others for his poor play, isnt this fun.
Bronx J. Man
@RealBronxMan
Struggling Stanley (one of Retro's least favorite Mafia players) has baselessly insulted my play! Unfair! Gafia is a safe space for all!
For the record my curiosity about if the thief could be town was due to the fact that this item in question likely wouldn't be of much use to scum (there's an edge case where it could be but that's about it). The main use it has for scum is in denying us the use of it. Also, I really have no incentive to lie here because claiming I got hit by both would be an unnecessary lie as it accomplishes very little. I'm as baffled as everyone else that I managed to attract two night actions to myself in one night and that they then happened to counteract each other. Also if it wasn't clear this item was not offered to me, I just received it without any input.
You need not specify what it does, but you are certain the item does what it says?
I.E. it's power was mod-confirmed and not like what you did in Persona, or ambiguous like what I received in Gafia 2.5?
That's all that really matters regarding this specific topic.
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
Banana / fruit vendor flashbacks?
nah its cool, go on, i wanna see how this plays out.
Yes.
Also, I dunno if CCS is scum, but I'm still not amused by his vote on me during that mess of a Day 1 end. I kind of wonder if that wasn't an attempt to try push the lynch onto me.
On the flipside, cabot does make a point (however weak) that CCS did claim very early on, which doesn't make much sense for scum... Of course that doesn't make much sense for town either, so...
Not sure how I feel about Bronx
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
Yes.
Also, I dunno if CCS is scum, but I'm still not amused by his vote on me during that mess of a Day 1 end. I kind of wonder if that wasn't an attempt to try push the lynch onto me.
On the flipside, cabot does make a point (however weak) that CCS did claim very early on, which doesn't make much sense for scum... Of course that doesn't make much sense for town either, so...
Not sure how I feel about Bronx
wait, what else could it have been?
Oops, sorry, I mean a scum attempt to push the lynch on me. If it was scum vs scum, tying it would be pretty hard.
Yes, the item came with a set of text specifying exactly what it did. Unless Saw created a game with items that are given to a player with a specific description and set of rules only for them to do completely different things there is no uncertainty.
There's a pretty strong push to lynch me today which I can live with, I did play pretty poorly yesterday.
However, there's almost at least one scum among the people saying they'll vote for me, since it's an easy wagon to set up against an incorrect target. Who it is, I'm not sure yet.
However, there's almost at least one scum among the people saying they'll vote for me, since it's an easy wagon to set up against an incorrect target. Who it is, I'm not sure yet.
This part is kinda garbage, to be fair"WHY DID YOU VOTE FOR CCS, IS IT BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM AND TRIED TO GET RID OF HIM"
"Nah, I thought he was scum. But if not, I'll take off the vote."
"WHY DID YOU TAKE YOUR VOTE OFF OF CCS? IS IT BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM?"
"No. I'll put the vote back on CCS then if you believe so."
"AHA! HE PUT THE VOTE ON CCS, A CLASSIC SCUM TELL! BOOK 'IM, DANNO"
Morning.
I've not read the posts overnight yet, I just want to bring up a couple of points while they are fresh in my head
A) melonrabbit
So I scumread melon yesterday, along with a few others. There are however those who townread her as well (Sorian and Sophia I remember specifically). We now know Sorian is town, so I can trust his read.
Things I don't like
1) The survey she started with, could've been an inventive way she thought would encourage activity, but she never really brought it round to a game-relevant use case. She did it, some people answered then it was sort of forgotten about.
2) She gut read me as scum, but along with Sophia, she ruled out lynching me yesterday completely. Why even bring me up as a scum candidate when you have no intention of targeting me on the day phase? Seems like you're trying to build a case against me out of nothing else than being consistent over a period of time.
3) The acohrs read:
OK, so as a scum I could see myself making a read like this with the fact that acohrs was confirmed scum. You know he's floundering and not doing so well, getting decent heat from others, so I would feel obliged to exclude him from a town section in my read list. I would also be hesitant to put him in a scum read, though I think where this is where I would differ. I'd stick him at the bottom of a scum list with not much explanation. She does the next best thing which is throw appropriate shade, even mentioning a vote on him being possible.
Describing acohrs as neutral is quite interesting because frankly I don't see much logic there as to why. Melon claims she thinks this because he's attracting votes, so I guess she believes he could be a Tanner. So as scum, I see it as a way to throw shade on a team mate without really going all in on him, as neutral...I'm not sure? maybe if you needed acohrs specifically, you'd do something like this or maybe try to divert from you being the genuine neutral article. As town, I really don't think there was much there from acohrs that gave a neutral alignment read.
The other thing about this read is I get the vibe that melon doesn't want to vote him. She mentions it, sure, but it seems just obligatory cause he's getting heat elsewhere and she doesn't want to appear out of the loop.
Last point: She votes CCS for thoughts, but that vote doesn't change before the day ends.
4) The notes. I've covered this but I didn't really see the point apart from trying to show the game how investigative you were being, which is something you'd like to show as scum, it's less important if you're playing Town right.
fun things while searching through posts:
I did chuckle at this. She don't care but cares enough to raise it!
Currently melon is my top scum.
B) Kawl vs CCS
I'd like to try something and go round the room. Pass a vote around and give me the likelihood of CCS being scum knowing what we know so far.
I'm really struggling to see a scum CCS right now, and frankly I'm sort of scum reading Kawl for his strong push towards him, so I need to know if I'm somehow blinded or tunneled. I'll start.
I believe there's a 20% chance CCS could be scum.
Your turn, lover
VOTE: *Splinter
I'll now read overnight posts and comment.
I've not read the posts overnight yet, I just want to bring up a couple of points while they are fresh in my head
A) melonrabbit
So I scumread melon yesterday, along with a few others. There are however those who townread her as well (Sorian and Sophia I remember specifically). We now know Sorian is town, so I can trust his read.
Things I don't like
1) The survey she started with, could've been an inventive way she thought would encourage activity, but she never really brought it round to a game-relevant use case. She did it, some people answered then it was sort of forgotten about.
2) She gut read me as scum, but along with Sophia, she ruled out lynching me yesterday completely. Why even bring me up as a scum candidate when you have no intention of targeting me on the day phase? Seems like you're trying to build a case against me out of nothing else than being consistent over a period of time.
3) The acohrs read:
OK, so as a scum I could see myself making a read like this with the fact that acohrs was confirmed scum. You know he's floundering and not doing so well, getting decent heat from others, so I would feel obliged to exclude him from a town section in my read list. I would also be hesitant to put him in a scum read, though I think where this is where I would differ. I'd stick him at the bottom of a scum list with not much explanation. She does the next best thing which is throw appropriate shade, even mentioning a vote on him being possible.
Describing acohrs as neutral is quite interesting because frankly I don't see much logic there as to why. Melon claims she thinks this because he's attracting votes, so I guess she believes he could be a Tanner. So as scum, I see it as a way to throw shade on a team mate without really going all in on him, as neutral...I'm not sure? maybe if you needed acohrs specifically, you'd do something like this or maybe try to divert from you being the genuine neutral article. As town, I really don't think there was much there from acohrs that gave a neutral alignment read.
The other thing about this read is I get the vibe that melon doesn't want to vote him. She mentions it, sure, but it seems just obligatory cause he's getting heat elsewhere and she doesn't want to appear out of the loop.
Last point: She votes CCS for thoughts, but that vote doesn't change before the day ends.
4) The notes. I've covered this but I didn't really see the point apart from trying to show the game how investigative you were being, which is something you'd like to show as scum, it's less important if you're playing Town right.
fun things while searching through posts:
I did chuckle at this. She don't care but cares enough to raise it!
Currently melon is my top scum.
B) Kawl vs CCS
I'd like to try something and go round the room. Pass a vote around and give me the likelihood of CCS being scum knowing what we know so far.
I'm really struggling to see a scum CCS right now, and frankly I'm sort of scum reading Kawl for his strong push towards him, so I need to know if I'm somehow blinded or tunneled. I'll start.
I believe there's a 20% chance CCS could be scum.
Your turn, lover
VOTE: *Splinter
I'll now read overnight posts and comment.
Zelda Fact of the Day #3: Did you know the only officially licensed Legend of Zelda games to be released on a non-Nintendo console were Zelda: The Wand of Gamelon, Zelda: Faces of Evil, and Zelda's Adventure for the Phillips CD-i? Or that they are also regarded as the worst Zelda games to ever be released and are not recognized as canon by Nintendo? Now you know!
*Bonus: Did you know Retro has beaten Zelda: The Wand of Gamelon? Yeah, we don't know why either.
Current Vote Count:
natiko (0)
cabot 1130 (1234)
bronx-man (1)
czartim 1131
ccs (2)
kawl_usc 1143
bronx-man 1209
cabot (0)
nin1000 1152 (1208)
*splinter (1)
cabot 1234
Day 2 Ends in:
Vote Tool can be found HERE.
*Bonus: Did you know Retro has beaten Zelda: The Wand of Gamelon? Yeah, we don't know why either.
Current Vote Count:
natiko (0)
bronx-man (1)
czartim 1131
ccs (2)
kawl_usc 1143
bronx-man 1209
cabot (0)
*splinter (1)
cabot 1234
Day 2 Ends in:
Vote Tool can be found HERE.
Jesus christ what do you guys want? I get shit for voting CCS, I get shit for not voting CCS. What the fuck am I supposed to do?
I also currently believe Natiko's claim, though I can see it as an adequate cover to stay alive for a neutral killer. I'm thinking a Archer like SK where the win condition is kill x amount of people.
Unfortunately, there's not much we can glean from this because I also doubt the thief is town-aligned, which makes it unlikely we'll ever get it confirmed outside of a flip.
Here's a question, doubt I'll get an answer but why not try?
Sawneeks/LP, if items do exist in this game would you reveal the items a person held on a flip?
I want you to stop worrying about how it all looks to others and start looking for the scum.
Fine. Until I can get a better scum read, the vote on CCS stays.
Yes.
Also, I dunno if CCS is scum, but I'm still not amused by his vote on me during that mess of a Day 1 end. I kind of wonder if that wasn't an attempt to try push the lynch onto me.
On the flipside, cabot does make a point (however weak) that CCS did claim very early on, which doesn't make much sense for scum... Of course that doesn't make much sense for town either, so...
Not sure how I feel about Bronx
It makes less sense for scum than for town. You're instantly bringing attention to yourself on Day 1, which is exactly the opposite of what you want as a scum, only the skilled players can make that play as scum.
CCS is still in his my first mafia diapers.
Yes, it's draped with skid marks.
I'll make sure someone cleans you, CCS
I have a question!
Since you could have your item stolen on N1, were you allowed to use it on N1?
It makes less sense for scum than for town. You're instantly bringing attention to yourself on Day 1, which is exactly the opposite of what you want as a scum, only the skilled players can make that play as scum.
CCS is still in his my first mafia diapers.
Yes, it's draped with skid marks.
I'll make sure someone cleans you, CCS
Well that's a mental image I didn't need in the morning
Seems only fair if a thief could theoretically be allowed to steal on the first night.
melon, who are your scum reads currently?
How likely do you think CCS being scum is?
Vote for who you think is scum. You're voting for who you think will remove suspicion from yourself, you don't see a problem with that?
Omg he didn't give a reason this is so unfair the post was about other stuff and then he just drops a vote on me with no explanation what is this nonsense
Oh, lol. I assumed that was an open question
like a non crazy person would do
20 players, probably 4 scum. So I think your 20% estimate is exactly as useful as an RNG pick.
I think CCS is more likely town than scum, although the weirdness of yesterday doesn't fit any alignment. I'm in favour of taking the risk in lynching him because:
1) Scum are never going to kill him
2) It let's us examine the D1 votes with more certainty
3) He totally could still be scum.
Now I type point 1 I guess we could see if a vig/neutral wants to kill him? But given the N1 choices I'm not expecting the extra kill to be pro-town.
This wasn't an objective 'chances of being scum in this game' score, this is my personal feelings on CCS being scum.
Worst case with 2 kills is SK, so that leaves a smaller window for mislynches. Still determining if using it on CCS is something I can get behind.