The old man was the helper in Zelda 1.
I hope for some caves like a maze-like one in Twilight Princess, it was always a highlight for me to get through the tight paths while the oil in your lamp slowly drains.
Legend of Zelda Wii U Gameplay Demo
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The old man was the helper in Zelda 1.
I hope for some caves like a maze-like one in Twilight Princess, it was always a highlight for me to get through the tight paths while the oil in your lamp slowly drains.
Never played a MGS game
Smashman45
Member
Ah, yeah I remember this cave. Had to leave when inadvertently discovering this cave early on, wasn't well-equipped.
More caves like this would be sublime.
balgajo
Member
I really don't know. At the same time that's good to have more stuff I felt obligated to complete everything and in the end I got bored with so many repetitive locations(in WW case).
It depends on how much story they want to put into this one. I agree with you personally, but I just feel like that's how Zelda Team approaches 3D Zelda.
Side note: I really hope we get voice acting. It's time. Not for Link, but everyone who does talk should get VA. At least in cutscenes.
Refreshment.01
Member
If you contrast the 2 videos Nickten, the first thing you'll notice that area in the older one is more densely populated than anything showed in the game awards one. Does this mean that the final game won't have such detail level? Not necessarily but the difference is there.
As for what concerns us (animation talk) i think it easier to notice once Link reaches the pier. It has that sequence in which Link takes out the cape and throws it away, then it makes a very nuanced gesture to reach the first explosive arrow and fires it with the bow held sideways (both things and that bow posture are not seen in any part of the GA gameplay video). Then there's Energy Arrow setup, Link extends it's index finger and pulls of the pin making the arrow extend, arm and slowly build up energy.
The debate is not about if it's doable, but instances like the examples above seems more fit for a cinematic sequence than for something under gameplay conditions.
With the above evidence i think it's pretty certain that it wasn't a sequence under normal gameplay situations but just with a change of camera angle. Assets wise? Yes, it used the ones that will be present in the game it seems.
Roger. I think your definition of helper is accurate, but it's not what most people think of when they think of 'Zelda helper.' They think of something that is with you at all times and often interrupts normal gameplay (either via sound to press a button or cutscene) to teach you how to do something or tell you where to go. Mainly Navi/Tatl/Midna/Fi.
I think ALBW handled not having a 'following helper' really well, so I'd like to hope it's just link and epona on their own this game.
Ideally they'd just be for random treasure and not for stuff to 100% the game. Game is way too big to find a random cave on the side of a mountain that has that last heart piece I need. It either needs a fortune teller type npc to mark stuff on your map or it needs to make most of the hidden areas have treasure/rupees as rewards. Or it needs to make important caves have large, visible markers that you won't miss while riding by them.
balgajo
Member
I liked that too. But I was talking about one that you have to use that magnetism mechanic. Also it had some lava inside. I felt so great when I discovered it.
Yeah, I'm just riffing about pie in the sky dream side content. Of course I'd want the focus to remain on well crafted, static dungeons.
Calling it now, new companion is the hood.
NotoriousPUG
Member
That would actually really be exciting to me.
Scoot McNairy
Member
MouldyK, there, using the words 'poor quality' in relation to the GTA V foliage.
I know exactly what you're talking about and yeah, it was rad to discover. TP did some things well.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Epona is the new companion
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The moment fighting the colossi are meant to stand out, because they are the climax.
If you fill every moment of a narrative with climax, nothing stands out anymore.
It's like the use of silence and loud music/sounds, you have to balance them to have the loudest moment have an impact.
That said, i enjoyed the exploration parts of SotC like few other experiences i've had in gaming.
Exploring around because i was curious about the world itself, instead of being on the search for the next trinket, upgrade, or whatever, made it all the more peaceful and interesting.
Finding a tortoise slowly walking around or a weird looking tree, or a neat looking cave with a forest inside it, was very rewarding on its own, without having a constant stream of baddies and loot assault my senses, like Skyrim would've had.
The only flaw in my opinion was making the Colossi linear in their appearance, instead of having YOU find them through that exploration.
It would've made the game all the more exciting.
I won't be arguing about what Zelda should or shouldn't be, because every fan i'm sure has their own vision as to what that entails, and as a Tomb Raider fan who feels the newest Tomb Raider has lost its way, i can at least understand the sentiment, but on a personal level, SotC is among the best experiences i've had in gaming, and i'm very excited by what this Zelda seems to "borrow" from it
Hopefully they can make an open world that is a bit better looking than it is right now, that would be my only gripe so far.
Dead_Pixel
Banned
I think that's more due to the fact that ALBW was a handheld game rather than an open ended game. Nintendo seems to want to make most of their handheld games easy to play for short bursts, and lengthy narrative exposition doesn't suit that philosophy. Also, when ALBW's
narrative did kick in at the end
Red Liquorice
Member
It's pretty, but is there anything to do in the world?
I remember Twilight Princess have large plains to ride over, with absolutely nothing to do in them.
I remember Twilight Princess have large plains to ride over, with absolutely nothing to do in them.
TheMoon
Member
You didn't really pay attention then. He said "4-5 more minutes to get there" and that was at the end of the video, not the beginning. There were cuts in the video. This wasn't one continuous walk through the world from A to B. They cut out a bunch of stuff, even had drastic time-of-day changes. Aonuma avoided looking at lots of stuff we can catch faint glimpses of. They showed us what they wanted to show us. This was about the size of the world and things you can do while riding your horse. That's it.
Remember the E3 teaser? That stuff will happen in the game. A giant monster thing might appear and you'd have to deal with it. There's stuff to find, landmarks all over, wildlife. We've seen all of this already.
Nobody on GAF has worked at Nintendo EAD. What other studios do is irrelevant.
JaseMath
Member
Of there will be. Nintendo has commented on this several times.
They already made a hat companion
I think it's time for candle to shine.
can't disagree with this
Astral Dog
Member
Epona would be nice as the companion, you can talk to her, like on Twilight Princess, give her apples, play with her on minigames, battles, customize/decorate,competitions, bullying other horses, etc.
evilromero
Member
Again I ask, why does every square inch need something to do? SotC is brilliant because of the space it creates and the thoughtful fantasy landscape. It's a character in itself. Overstuffing the environment just feels cheap and superficial as it shows you don't have faith in the larger design process to be compelling enough. The dungeons will be very tightly designed, there is no doubt. Allow for space. There is beauty and meaning there. Same idea with design in general. The meaning is created by negative or white space because the lack of something gives greater emphasis to what is there. I'm glad Nintendo is remembering that.
Maybe Epona gets murdered as part of the main storyline.
Oh no,don't pull an Agro all over again D: At least no with Epona pls.
Kissenkopf
Banned
And to add something to that you said: even games like RDR or GTA have barren fields with nothing more to do than running around and enjoying the vista. I dont know why it is wrong in an Zelda gamr.
Because a big empty overworld like in Twilight Princess (or even a small empty one as in Skyward Sword) bores most people to death. I'm playing games to have fun, not to walk for for 10 minutes from one location to another - doing nothing but walking or riding.
The difference being there that at least GTA games have something to do in large parts of the overworld, which wasn't really the case for the last three Zelda console titles.
Yeah, that's been my second biggest concern too. I love SotC but I don't want a Zelda game that features a similarly desolate and empty landscape to ride across while you look for dungeons where the action is. Going by the original teaser, I do suspect they will have some kind of dynamic enemy encounter system though, possibly based on the time of day.
Which brings me to my biggest concern, one mostly brought on by my love for Twilight Princess save for the same flaw: that the game will yet again childishly over-telegraphed combat that is (A) at odds with the game's overall tone and that (B) never feels as challenging or rewarding as the simple yet deep combat of the first two Zelda games that always kept you on your toes.
With such a vast overworld and more realistic/sombre look, this new game more than ever should feature combat that challenges you to stay alive and that makes you feel relieved when you finally manage to increase your no. of hearts or reach a safe haven. It's been said many times since, but a bit of inspiration taken from the Souls series in terms of tactical combat encounters and the subsequent danger of losing valuable stuff would go a long way here.
Overall I am still VERY excited though! Think about it, this could be the first Zelda game that finally manages to approach the art work of the first Zelda games in real time, i.e. the ones showing Link peer out from a cliff side to view a vast land below him, or him tentatively trekking through caves or ruins with a torch. This might in other words be the game that lets you feel like you are exploring a varied, hostile environment with occassional moments of peace (and perhaps even some humor) in villages and moments of dread and even bigger dangers in dungeons. Let's hope they don't ruin that with enemies that can barely hurt you, a fighting system that's again accompanied by musical notes to indicate successful hits, or endless hidden treasures featuring nothing of value because of maxed out wallets and having nothing to buy.
Mango The Magician
Banned
You're probably right, it just felt really jarring going from SS to ALBW though. At the least, I can say that I really enjoyed the story the second time I played it, doesn't really mitigate the problems with its items or dungeons however, but I think initially I was a little too hard on the game. Still, I'd love an actual explanation to what Lorule is and all that, I mean I don't really like just creating parallel universes like that because it kinda diminishes the importance of the main universe.
Ganondorfo
Junior Member
Maybe Epona gets murdered as part of the main storyline.
Then Link goes to Epona and this song is playing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXaCUmFi70w
While Link thinks of all the good moments of Epona, it would be very depressive and Neogaf would cry for years at this moment and me also.
Refreshment.01
Member
You are wasting your time here. Have expended months (years maybe) explaining this, people that think that way refuse to understand.
The "empty space" point of view has some validity in something like Wind Waker. In there the overworld was big in terms of space but it wasn't interesting to explore since there wasn't significant land masses with land marks to view and remember, just tiny island that acted as portals to other places. It had some diversions in your way to the destination, but it was moslty that blue layer with nothing much visually appealing in between.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Guys.
The world was empty because it was a demo intended to show you how big the world is. They didn't want enemies or npcs stopping them constantly.
The world was empty because it was a demo intended to show you how big the world is. They didn't want enemies or npcs stopping them constantly.
evilromero
Member
Fortunately, Nintendo is doing it regardless of the minority. So in the end I get what I want.
Bl@de
Member
I don't want tooooo much. I actually liked the sailing in wind waker hd. The theme kicks in, you cross the sea and have time to sort the inventory on the gamepad screen, take a break between quests and get ready for the next dungeon. Welcoming change of pace.
We think alike.
Twilight Princess, Wind Waker and Skyward Sword weren't demos though. They were plagued by a lack of interesting stuff to do in the overworld.
OminoMichelin
Member
I don't really expect the world to be filled with npcs outside of villages etc. tbh.
I'll reserve judgement for when it's out, but, depending on the amount of content in the game, we might be able to see to what extent nintendo adapted to HD games development cycles.
We don't know how many people are working on this, right?
Sort of. Skyward Sword was plagued by a lack of an overworld at all.
balgajo
Member
This man! I never felt Twilight Princess bland as people talk. Sometime I turn on the game and discover new stuff by observing the world and riding in my horse.
#teamemptyworldcanbecool
brandonh83
Banned
Exactly. In Zelda I'm fine with both the fun objectives and having a fleshed out Hyrule to bask in. This game will satisfy both needs.
I guess I never really thought of the islands in the Sky to be an overworld in the traditional sense. If anything, they were like an extention of Skyloft to me. Or like the center fields in both OOT and MM. Found it no different than any other 3D Zelda game than say, TWW.
On the size of the overworld: I don't really care what they do. I've long since realized that my preference for Zelda games comes down to dungeons and personality. I think the fear, if there is any, is that they'd spend too much time working on the overworld and not enough on the more detailed elements, but there's no evidence towards that at this point.
My crazy guess as to what they're going to do in the overworld is that you will be asked to hunt or prevent giant monsters from attacking cities, like that octo-robot in the first teaser. That, combined with setting waypoints and figuring out how to get to areas will fill in the overworld with moment to moment objectives.
On the size of the overworld: I don't really care what they do. I've long since realized that my preference for Zelda games comes down to dungeons and personality. I think the fear, if there is any, is that they'd spend too much time working on the overworld and not enough on the more detailed elements, but there's no evidence towards that at this point.
My crazy guess as to what they're going to do in the overworld is that you will be asked to hunt or prevent giant monsters from attacking cities, like that octo-robot in the first teaser. That, combined with setting waypoints and figuring out how to get to areas will fill in the overworld with moment to moment objectives.
High-five!
Correct, but I think it's safe to assume that some design practices would carry over from studio to studio. As a software engineer, it seems logical to build the tools, the world, and THEN fill the world once all the other parts of the game are fleshed out. I'd like to think that if a lot of other open world games are built the same way, nintendo would probably do something similar. Yes, you're right that we don't know for sure. All i'm saying is that i'm pretty sure it's not surprising that the world doesn't have a lot of stuff in it yet, because if i'd have to guess, that would be one of the last things you'd do before you get to the final portions of debugging.
Would you guys like Metroid Prime more if they increased the sheer size and let everything remain the same?
So the narrow tunnels connecting two large areas become wider and longer, with absolutely nothing in them beside cosmetics? Instead of it taking 5 seconds to walk through, say 20 seconds just to go from door A to door B?
Because this is what I'm arguing here, the sheer scope. Retain the exact same layouts, shapes and forms, just make them smaller in size to minimize walking. Expanding the space has absolutely zero effect on me.
So the narrow tunnels connecting two large areas become wider and longer, with absolutely nothing in them beside cosmetics? Instead of it taking 5 seconds to walk through, say 20 seconds just to go from door A to door B?
Because this is what I'm arguing here, the sheer scope. Retain the exact same layouts, shapes and forms, just make them smaller in size to minimize walking. Expanding the space has absolutely zero effect on me.
sörine;142216969 said:
Which made it better than Twilight Princess. Having a small boring overworld was still a huge improvement over the vast emptiness in Twilight Princess. I didn't even bother to finish TP (I did finish Skyward Sword and regret wasting my time in hindsight).
FreedomFighter
Member
Would be a shit ton of work, but it would need to have a few interactive overworld themes - similar to Ocarina of Time, or the much more fleshed out overworld theme in Twilight Princess. Two to three of those would be fine.
Could maybe section them off by region (like ALttP) or section them of by main quest progress (sort of like what Wind Waker did half ass with "The Great Sea" and "The Great Sea is Cursed")
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