Master Yoshi
Member
I felt like Pikmin 3 was on par with GTA V, visually.
Legend of Zelda Wii U Gameplay Demo
- Thread starter zakislam
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I felt like Pikmin 3 was on par with GTA V, visually.
Agreed. 3D Zelda overworlds are just not that great. They are mostly hubs to cool areas. My favorite overworld so far is from LttP.
Majora's Mask is as good as any overworked needs to be.
WindWaker is fantastic too, no disclaimers needed.
TP and SS were awful. OoT was ok.
I remember getting to that area for the first time around Christmas. Was so cool.
It's not that I love puzzles so much. I just enjoy the Nintendo style of throwing gameplay and level design ideas at you constantly. I find it more impressive and interesting than creating a large area to explore. It was like they took a Mario Galaxy/3D World/Captain Toad approach with Skyward Sword. SS was a non-stop dungeon crawl and dungeon design is really the marquee feature of Zelda games for me.
brandonh83
Banned
Doesn't it add so much to the atmosphere and immersion when you can relate to such things personally? Maybe this is why I'm not so anal about Zelda because most of them do this for me and it's such a pleasant and memorable experience.
Yeah but mine was a real one, so it's more legit.
I really enjoy the increasingly liberal interpretations of Zelda.
Justin Bailey
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Nailed it. We need a busier overworld.
I do think that Nintendo has been trying to emulate real life too much with their Zelda overworlds. Real life has five senses, most video games have two (and a half). You have to make up the difference with the two that you got.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
The world looks a bit plain to me.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
or Koholint Island from Link's Awakening.
IDK, a lot of Zelda stuff translates just fine to 3D space and they still work to various degrees. Dungeons, items, bosses, combat, NPC interactions, villages, sidequests, minigames, dramatic music cues, etc. But I still feel think the overworlds have pretty much always been the weakest/most flawed aspect of all the 3D Zelda games. Its weird. With the 2D games you can build these dense little worlds square by square, but you expand to the 3D dimensions that stuff goes out the window. It doesn't really flow together with those elements I mentioned earlier, they seem more like hub spaces you have to traverse to get to the cool parts of the game, you know what I mean?
I don't really have a solution for it, I think Skyward Sword go the closet but they confined them to zones and put all the chest/secret stuff in the sky with the one town, made it all feel like segmented levels.
Its just curious. I guess having one big connected world like Zelda U is supposed to do with various terrain and challenges and such could be for the best. We'll see.
TheCongressman1
Member
Having mailman in this world would be awesome. I would stalk him to memorize his schedule.
LiberaTeExInferis
Member
Genuine question, because I see the empty overworld concern tossed around frequently...
How did other open world games tackle this problem and which are those since I am not a fan of this genre....?
Do you mean just enemies populating the areas?
How did other open world games tackle this problem and which are those since I am not a fan of this genre....?
Do you mean just enemies populating the areas?
I just don't want random generic NPC with the same voice as every other NPC I walk by running up to me, forcing dialog, and then have some random meaningless event happen. Total immersion breaker.
This world likely needs more than one mailman, especially if it has multiple towns.
Solid SOAP
Member
Luckily, Aonuma confirmed that he too agreed that introductions serving as tutorials that can last hours have been debilitating to game design and flow, so they're addressing that concern in this game
I like you.
I like games that explore gameplay mechanics and interactivity, interesting concepts like timeshift crystals, gravity effects in Galaxy, the mechanic in Meat Boy that allows you to have some hang time when wall jumping changes level design drastically, Metroid Prime's control scheme made for extremely fun and unique combat, the way you contract a level in Kirby Yarn to decrease the distance to a platform is a clever and backwards way of giving you double jump plus perfectly integrates artstyle with gameplay.
I love how in SS I can throw a bomb near a deku plant, he'll eat it, but here's the kicker, a nearby deku plant will try to grab the bomb from its mouth and both blow up in the process. This is why I play games, to experience these clever things. Zelda does this best. So you can imagine horse riding on auto pilot over a vast grass field is the most uninteresting, unstimulating thing for me. Because nothing happens. SS is a playground of gameplay mechanics, truly the Galaxy of the Zelda franchise.
Something they could do to mitigate downtime is to add rupee ballons in the sky as you ride epona to keep me occupied as if it was a target gallery minigame, and if you hit them all you get a red rupee bonus! engaging and gamey stuff like that. Think being on the lookout for bunnies in ST, just something fun you do as the train does its thing going from A to B.
TheCongressman1
Member
Ooh, that could be a cool side quest: take over a mail shift.
Another thought: Pegasus boots.
Aquamarine
Member
Are you sure about that? GAF is very influential.
For example, I have a couple of friends who work at Nintendo EAD. And I'm just one person.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
You felt wrong.
Elfforkusu
Member
ShockingAlberto
Member
This discussion is interesting, because there are people who do want those massive fields. I've known a guy who has sword off Zelda until or unless they go Just Cause 2-sized with it. To him, that's what Zelda is. When he first played OoT, he always assumed the fields and overworld would just get bigger and bigger because he loved walking through them as if they were real places. He likened a smaller Zelda world to telling Frodo to go next door to destroy the ring - there's no stakes if everything's close together. I know for a fact he's not alone in this because I see people express the same desire.
Me, personally, they could be literal hallways as long they lead to good dungeons. The only Zelda game where I really cared about the overworld was Majora's Mask and it was probably the smallest, most compact one, but the entire point of that game was to make you care about the overworld.
Zelda has a unique problem where the games were so different until about 2000 that everyone took a different part of what Zelda is to them away from it. This guy started with Ocarina and Hyrule Field spoke to him; for him, the series logically would have just expanded on that because it was the best way to make a sequel different and better. I know some maniacs here have said Zelda needs to be more action-y because somehow that's what they took away from ALttP or OoT.
I don't think they're ever going to make a game that satisfies all these people, so I'm just going to hope they satisfy me first and foremost and everyone else can get what they want after.
Me, personally, they could be literal hallways as long they lead to good dungeons. The only Zelda game where I really cared about the overworld was Majora's Mask and it was probably the smallest, most compact one, but the entire point of that game was to make you care about the overworld.
Zelda has a unique problem where the games were so different until about 2000 that everyone took a different part of what Zelda is to them away from it. This guy started with Ocarina and Hyrule Field spoke to him; for him, the series logically would have just expanded on that because it was the best way to make a sequel different and better. I know some maniacs here have said Zelda needs to be more action-y because somehow that's what they took away from ALttP or OoT.
I don't think they're ever going to make a game that satisfies all these people, so I'm just going to hope they satisfy me first and foremost and everyone else can get what they want after.
Did you see the whole world or a very small part of it.
Do you go into a desert and say the earth is plain?
brandonh83
Banned
Definitely a different kind of reply than what I'm used to when I say something about Zelda lol
But thanks!
TheMoon
Member
I'd say you're the rare exception. I know there are lots of devs on here and many NOA Treehousers read GAF. Of course there's a chance but even if there were 200 EAD employees signed up, none of them would say a single peep.
ReyVGM
Member
Has Nintendo said or shown a sidekick? Then you can't say there's zero basis for this. So far there is no sidekick at all.
And did you miss the part in my post where I said "so far"?
I think it's possible they did it on purpose, not wanting to spoil the overworld. Since it seems like it's going to be a big part of the game. They hinted that in a build there were apples growing in trees. Apples! That's something.
If you're suggesting an entire Mailman family, I'll take a bullet for that idea.
Maybe more terrain diversity than just grass fields and trees.
Astral Dog
Member
These games are kinda difficult to compare.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Is there a single person here who thinks this game won't have environmental diversity?
BrokenFiction
Member
Just trees and grass as far as the eye can see. Instead of ocean like WW, it'll just be vast grasslands. Once you get the Super Sail for Epona, though, you're golden.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Cyclones.
I play 2D Zelda and 3D Zelda for vastly different reasons. I expect 2D Zelda to be gamey and challenging. I expect 3D Zelda to be immersive and atmospheric.
I wanted to drop kick someone after playing SS because it felt like an unholy abomination to the soul and spirit of console Zelda. :/
brandonh83
Banned
Let it snow, let it snow, can't hold it back any more... let it snow, let it snow...
Fi never bothered me anyway.
Fi never bothered me anyway.
Herb Alpert
Banned
They did it on purpose. They threw a bone, in order not to repeat the cranky Kong fiasco. Otherwise, why the off screen footage?
But let's be honest, the huge world will be less filled than GTA V and people will complain. Because we are not downtown here, but in a remote fantasy land.
But it is probably safe to expect treasure hunting, races, all sort of mini-games and so on.
And personnaly, I like big empty grass fields with wild horses in the sunset.
Orniletter
Banned
Add me to the list of people who like....pretty much every Zelda.
I mean, there are aspects I prefer in one Zelda over the other...but they are pretty much all fantastic games.
I mean, there are aspects I prefer in one Zelda over the other...but they are pretty much all fantastic games.
Except for the DS and NES Zeldas.
BrokenFiction
Member
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I mentioned something like that in the "Zelda Cycle" thread. Because each Zelda game tends to have so many different elements, its logical that people will favor some previous entries' various attributes to a current one, from the big things like the art direction all the way down to the fuckin' text speed. Majora's Mask sidequests/NPC, Wind Waker's overworld, Twilight Princess darker art and dungeon design, Skyward Sword motion controls, 2D Zelda's compact design. Zelda is too many different things to too many different people for them to ever make a Zelda game that's gonna unite them all under one banner like "YES! THIS IS THE BEST ONE YET!". A lot of people are gonna love Zelda U, a lot of people aren't, and a lot of people will be in the middle to various shades of degree. Call it the "Zelda Cycle" if you want, but its a pretty rational, logical expectation.
I just hope the helpers leave me the hell alone and they tone down the mandatory fetch quests and shit, that's what I want. Maybe a magic bird to teleport around a bit. Eh.
thomasmahler
Moon Studios
I think a health dose of skepticism is in order.
Twilight Princess had an empty Overworld, Wind Waker had a mostly empty ocean, Skyward Sword had an even emptier sky. You think they craft a huge, fully connected world and this time it'll be sprawling with gameplay?
The thing I worry about from a design perspective is that it's really difficult to create things that make running through the world interesting - and that was already seen during the TGA demo. Just running / riding through a large world is no fun. In ALTTP and LA, every single screen had something interesting to it that you could interact with. Enemies, bushes, rocks, NPCs, etc.
I've been thinking about that a lot lately. How do you do that in a big, open world game? It's very difficult. Cutting grass, lifting rocks and finding secret entrances was always what made Zeldas overworlds interesting. It'll be way more difficult to do that in a 3d game like this and they never tackled that properly in any of the 3d Zeldas.
TheMoon
Member
YOU LIAR!
I'm only not the biggest fan of NES Zelda since I didn't grow up with them and they're tough to play now
MisterGrey3000
Member
EAD3 didn't "decrease" the focus of LoZ's overworld element in Skyward Sword (unless one considers "The Sky" as the only overworld/hub for some arbitrary reason; which unfortunately seems to be the case with some people in this thread.), they basically took the true gameplay strengths of Zelda (fantastic item/"power up"-reliant puzzle/obstacle course-based level design) and put them in the overworld essentially making them more than just a bridge that creates context between the dungeons/levels; I'm pretty disappointed that this will most likely not be a part of Zelda U's general design.
I'll never understand the praise for ALttP's overworld...you didn't do anything in it other than walk past non-threatening primitive enemies and scroll to the next screen; I guess you bombed the occasional wall/environmental object once in a while (like in every Zelda overworld that has ever existed), but it really isn't "packed with content"...half the time you're just walking to the next dungeon/town/non-field area; it has almost no parity with the actual "meat"of the experience.
I'll take Skyward Sword's Hyrule/overworld any of day of the week; as I've said before, it actually played to the true strengths of LoZ while also being tool that created narrative context and theming.
brandonh83
Banned
This is why it's my favorite game series. More than starting out in 86 with the original and having that nostalgic connection, I feel like the games have not only been steadily good, but I think they've gotten better and have held their ground progressively. One of the few regrets I have with the series is simply that the first Wii prevented those installments from being HD, thus not looking their best on my TV.
Skyward needs an HD port, and Twilight Princess needs the same and with a bit of a texture overhaul. The Wii U version of Wind Waker didn't take long and brought with it a handful of improvements and other marvels like Miiverse integration and the swift sail. They actually took a complaint and went a little ways in resolving it.
If they did this with Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess I would /string of inappropriate content redacted
It's simple really, size. Make it condensed. Hello Metroid Prime.
If you only have enough salt for a glass of water, but you decide to use it in a filled bathtub, you will barely be able to taste it.
Honestly, that is what I like about the Zelda series. There isn't just one thing that defines it. I know I can expect very different experiences despite the similar foundation in gameplay and I like that.
OrbitalBeard
Member
I wasn't referring to any of this. I was responding to someone questioning diversity in the environments. I can't think of a single 3D Zelda game that sticks to one type of landscape. I guess the closest example I can think of would be TWW but even it does a good job in this regard, despite a very large portion of the overworld consisting of water.
As for what you're discussing (variety of gameplay and world density), I agree, it's realistic to be a bit skeptical.
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