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[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Oh please. It doesn't matter who it comes from. She's right.

Not to pick on you specifically, but this mentality behind the concept of "friendzoning" and how it's assumed to be negative is really, really gross. People use it like there's some underlying assumption that men being "just" friends with a woman is somehow bad, like you couldn't possibly want to have anything to do with women unless romance is involved. As if women having agency in who they hook up with is somehow a bad thing.

There wasn't even romantic implication between Link and Zelda in TP, so going "Well, Zelda would have friendzoned Link" doesn't even make sense. You're inserting something that wasn't even there and then blaming the woman for it not being there.

I don't care if people think I'm overreacting. This mentality is awful and I wanted to explain why. It permeates tons of things other than this conversational sidetrack.

Oh relax some people take the friendzone way too literal..

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

One teeny tiny bit of complaint: the loud steppings of epona running on grass needs to dampen a little bit, but my perception may be of, as the video was captured of screen.

It's not you, they were using a hoof vs stone/cobblestone sound effect for everywhere she went, including grass. It appears they haven't filled out all her sound effects yet.

Edit:

Oh relax some people take the friendzone way too literal..

You implied her opinion didn't count because she's female. I don't believe you intended anything bad, but I wanted to point out that the way this is often used can be harmful even outside of intent, because it is a common and somewhat troubling usage on GAF and elsewhere.

You can disagree, of course, but it's a real complaint. Please do not minimize it.

 

[zeldablue]

Never thought I'd read fluidity and Shadow of the Colossus in the same sentence .

The motion blur was a cool trick, iirc they made it so that the lower the framerate, the more motion blur was displayed, as a way to mask the frame-dips during the colossus fights.

Oh...yeah.

You can tell I'm not a framerate person, because I sometimes get excited by framerate drops. I feel as though the game is getting real intense when the fps dips. Like in TWW when you kill several enemies at the same time and the game lags for every kill. It feels...good! Same for when Ganondorf charges that mega beam in OoT and then you shoot him. The game goes into slow-mo basically. In SoTC it was crazy when you saw wander and Agro go flying from the impact of a colossi.

It feels cool and cinematic. Am I the only one who feels that way? xD

 

[TheMoon]

In a lot of games, specially old ones, the director is not necessarily the one "in charge".

For example, Miyamoto was the producer for all Zelda games, Mario Games, F-Zero, Mario Kart and many more. The director has been someone else (most of the time), usually Takashi Tezuka and now Aonuma. So basically, Miyamoto has always been a producer, even back when Zelda and Mario were (according to general knowledge), his own creations.

I know. The EAD producers are the big honchos, that's nothing new. Aonuma is big boss for Zelda. But still, he's not directing, so he's not involved in every little bit and works out the specifics. He just has the power to say "wtf is this, make this better we need this to work, here go try something like this!" but how to pull it off is what the director has to figure out with the team (and then bring it back to Aonuma).

As for Miyamoto, we know he sometimes goes more hands on with certain projects than others. Like what he's doing now with Star Fox and did before with Pikmin 3. Those get more involved input from him than the other EAD projects.

The distinction is one worth making as tons of people still believe Aonuma and Miyamoto are sitting there designing systems and dungeons and levels and whatever.

 

[Huh?]

I think Twilight Princess is clearly the product of troubled development, but I don't really find many of the criticisms very valid. I highly doubt anyone who found Twilight Princess "empty" is going to enjoy an open-world Zelda, because there hasn't been a single 3D Zelda that's had every inch of the overworld filled with content, nor are there many open-world games that are like that either. I mean, I haven't played every open world game, but SotC? Every Rockstar game? The Wind Waker? Those are all games with wide spaces of nothing in between meaningful content, especially in the case of the latter where the scenery doesn't even really change most of the time. I hope Zelda U spaces things out in such a way that there are no corners of the map in which there's nothing at all, but I don't think it's fair to expect every inch of the overworld to have something major to do when even the more compact 3D Zeldas don't have that, and no open world games that I know of do either.

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

I think Twilight Princess is clearly the product of troubled development, but I don't really find many of the criticisms very valid. I highly doubt anyone who found Twilight Princess "empty" is going to enjoy an open-world Zelda, because there hasn't been a single 3D Zelda that's had every inch of the overworld filled with content, nor are there many open-world games that are like that either. I mean, I haven't played every open world game, but SotC? Every Rockstar game? The Wind Waker? Those are all games with wide spaces of nothing in between meaningful content, especially in the case of the latter where the scenery doesn't even really change most of the time. I hope Zelda U spaces things out in such a way that there are no corners of the map in which there's nothing at all, but I don't think it's fair to expect every inch of the overworld to have something major to do when even the more compact 3D Zeldas don't have that, and no open world games that I know of do either.

It's a matter of opinion, of course.

Personally, I did find WW and TP a little empty, but not necessarily because there wasn't enough to do. For me, "rewards" for exploring don't necessarily have to be gameplay. I'd prefer gameplay in the form of sidequests, bonus dungeons, and lots of little secrets, but that's not the only option. Art can count as a reward for me. If I go exploring and find a hidden viewpoint that offers a noteworthy view of a beautiful, well-designed game world, that can be enough. Xenoblade, for example, has several of these, and the only "tangible" rewards you get for finding them are a few experience and skill points. I still had lots of fun finding them because the environments were artfully and creatively designed. I'll call it empty if there's too little gameplay hidden in places like this, but I don't need it in every single corner.

So what I said about WW and TP earlier applies not because their worlds didn't have secrets and things hidden around them, but because their worlds were flat. WW's optional islands were tiny and uninteresting outside of a heart here or there. TP's Hyrule Field was mostly a perfectly level expanse connected with very artificial corridors.

Worlds in video games are interesting because of how you interact with them. If they're nice enough to look at, an appreciation can be enough for some small segments. If they're not, the lack of gameplay is felt more harshly. TP had, where you exited Kakariko to the north, a large rocky cliff face made of several different levels and shapes, and it was scalable. There was a Piece of Heart at the end of it, but there didn't have to be. If there were more structures like that in the environment, just having those options for interaction would be enough, even if not all of them have a "reward" at the end. The fun of climbing and discovery can be its own reward, especially in a game like this where you can then jump off and drift down to rejoin the world safely.

Being "nice enough to look at" isn't a function of power, either, it's one of composition. Old pixellated games can still capture the imagination if there's enough art in the composition of the environment.

Some people don't find those things interesting and are only in it for the items at the end. They'll usually (though I certainly can't speak for everyone) prefer games like Skyward Sword or the 2D Zeldas, where everything is much more compact and more puzzle-like. But I spent time jackknifing between Skyloft's two primary islands on my Loftwing because the view and the sense of speed were fun. If you want every nook and cranny to have secrets, Zelda Wii U will probably disappoint you, but I'm pretty excited about finally getting a 3D environment that looks crafted to be interesting on its own merit.

 

[ReyVGM]

If metroid can't crawl, will zelda still not jump in this game?

 

[HYDE]

If metroid can't crawl, will zelda still not jump in this game?

I think jumping would revolutionize 3D Zelda (think Roc's cape). It needs a jump button badly. Also Epona needs Pegasus wings.

 

[Huh?]

It's a matter of opinion, of course.

Personally, I did find WW and TP a little empty, but not necessarily because there wasn't enough to do. For me, "rewards" for exploring don't necessarily have to be gameplay. I'd prefer gameplay in the form of sidequests, bonus dungeons, and lots of little secrets, but that's not the only option. Art can count as a reward for me. If I go exploring and find a hidden viewpoint that offers a noteworthy view of a beautiful, well-designed game world, that can be enough. Xenoblade, for example, has several of these, and the only "tangible" rewards you get for finding them are a few experience and skill points. I still had lots of fun finding them because the environments were artfully and creatively designed. I'll call it empty if there's too little gameplay hidden in places like this, but I don't need it in every single corner.

So what I said about WW and TP earlier applies not because their worlds didn't have secrets and things hidden around them, but because their worlds were flat. WW's optional islands were tiny and uninteresting outside of a heart here or there. TP's Hyrule Field was mostly a perfectly level expanse connected with very artificial corridors.

Worlds in video games are interesting because of how you interact with them. If they're nice enough to look at, an appreciation can be enough for some small segments. If they're not, the lack of gameplay is felt more harshly. TP had, where you exited Kakariko to the north, a large rocky cliff face made of several different levels and shapes, and it was scalable. There was a Piece of Heart at the end of it, but there didn't have to be. If there were more structures like that in the environment, just having those options for interaction would be enough, even if not all of them have a "reward" at the end. The fun of climbing and discovery can be its own reward, especially in a game like this where you can then jump off and drift down to rejoin the world safely.

Being "nice enough to look at" isn't a function of power, either, it's one of composition. Old pixellated games can still capture the imagination if there's enough art in the composition of the environment.

Some people don't find those things interesting and are only in it for the items at the end. They'll usually (though I certainly can't speak for everyone) prefer games like Skyward Sword or the 2D Zeldas, where everything is much more compact and more puzzle-like. But I spent time jackknifing between Skyloft's two primary islands on my Loftwing because the view and the sense of speed were fun. If you want every nook and cranny to have secrets, Zelda Wii U will probably disappoint you, but I'm pretty excited about finally getting a 3D environment that looks crafted to be interesting on its own merit.

No, I'm looking forward to Zelda U, I just meant based on what I perceive to be what many fans mean by "empty" I have my doubts it'll end up satisfying those people, and it seems to me like there's something of a double standard between various games of what an acceptable level of content is.

 

[ReyVGM]

I think jumping would revolutionize 3D Zelda (think Roc's cape). It needs a jump button badly. Also Epona needs Pegasus wings.

You don't really need to jump if there's no need to jump. For everything else, the auto jump works just fine.

Remember the game is made around the fact that you can't freely jump. So it's not like it's holding the game back or something. If they want to make a dungeon where the character should be jumping around, then they can make an item for it (like Roc's Feather) or the put some kind of mechanic in the dungeon where something shoots you up (either a spring or wind).

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

No, I'm looking forward to Zelda U, I just meant based on what I perceive to be what many fans mean by "empty" I have my doubts it'll end up satisfying those people, and it seems to me like there's something of a double standard between various games of what an acceptable level of content is.

Sorry, I got that, I was just trying to explain where I think some of the "double standards" come from.

 

[Huh?]

Sorry, I got that, I was just trying to explain where I think some of the "double standards" come from.

Well just to be clear, I'm not accusing you of having a double standard because of your specific definition of emptiness. I would imagine based on your definition, the game doesn't look empty. But I've already seen people dubbing the game "empty", and I can only make an educated guess based on what other people have defined emptiness as in the past.

 

[banofypie]

I think jumping would revolutionize 3D Zelda (think Roc's cape). It needs a jump button badly. Also Epona needs Pegasus wings.

With Zelda's focus on puzzles, I can't see this being a thing that happens. 3D Zeldas rely on very rigid rulesets in order to actually work and feel tightly designed. A jump button would ruin that rigid design, even if it was just an item. To accommodate for it, you'd need to basically uproot everything that Zelda now is and create something that fundamentally isn't a Zelda game.

 

[The Boat]

Oh...yeah.

You can tell I'm not a framerate person, because I sometimes get excited by framerate drops. I feel as though the game is getting real intense when the fps dips. Like in TWW when you kill several enemies at the same time and the game lags for every kill. It feels...good! Same for when Ganondorf charges that mega beam in OoT and then you shoot him. T

It feels cool and cinematic. Am I the only one who feels that way? xD

Those slowdowns are done on purpose to emphasize the hit.

 

[Easy_D]

Oh...yeah.

You can tell I'm not a framerate person, because I sometimes get excited by framerate drops. I feel as though the game is getting real intense when the fps dips. Like in TWW when you kill several enemies at the same time and the game lags for every kill. It feels...good! Same for when Ganondorf charges that mega beam in OoT and then you shoot him. The game goes into slow-mo basically. In SoTC it was crazy when you saw wander and Agro go flying from the impact of a colossi.

It feels cool and cinematic. Am I the only one who feels that way? xD

In Wind Waker it's actually not a framerate thing, they designed the game to give a brief pause everytime you hit an enemy to give the hits a bit more oomph

 

[BY2K]

The only actual framerate drop I can remember from Wind Waker is when Gohma would rise up from the lava after being hit by the falling ceiling.

But even that may be intentional, since they didn't fix in in Wind Waker HD.

 

[GiantEnemyGoomba]

Oh...yeah.

You can tell I'm not a framerate person, because I sometimes get excited by framerate drops. I feel as though the game is getting real intense when the fps dips. Like in TWW when you kill several enemies at the same time and the game lags for every kill. It feels...good! Same for when Ganondorf charges that mega beam in OoT and then you shoot him. The game goes into slow-mo basically. In SoTC it was crazy when you saw wander and Agro go flying from the impact of a colossi.

It feels cool and cinematic. Am I the only one who feels that way? xD

Yeah I know exactly what you mean lol. Like in Xenoblade sometimes the game would slowdown just as you press an art, so Shulk would be doing his attack in slow motion. Would be even cooler when that would be the attack that destroys an enemy.

 

[zeldablue]

In Wind Waker it's actually not a framerate thing, they designed the game to give a brief pause everytime you hit an enemy to give the hits a bit more oomph

Really? Aonuma said it was lag in TWW and TP. The lag from a killing hit is gone in TWW HD.

 

[The Boat]

Really? Aonuma said it was lag in TWW and TP. The lag from a killing hit is gone in TWW HD.

I don't think there's any difference in a killing hit or regular hit, any hit intentionally does that and it still does in WWHD. I don't recall Aonuma ever saying those were unintentional frame drops.

 

[Dimmle]

There's definitely a pause after a killing/toppling blow in Wind Waker. I always thought it was for theatrical effect.

 

[Palculator]

Really? Aonuma said it was lag in TWW and TP. The lag from a killing hit is gone in TWW HD.

I don't think there's any difference in a killing hit or regular hit, any hit intentionally does that and it still does in WWHD. I don't recall Aonuma ever saying those were unintentional frame drops.

There's definitely a pause after a killing/toppling blow in Wind Waker. I always thought it was for theatrical effect.

Yeah, that's still in WWHD and it always felt more like a deliberate choice, not actual lag. Many games feature hitpause to highlight combat impact, don't they?

 

[Easy_D]

Really? Aonuma said it was lag in TWW and TP. The lag from a killing hit is gone in TWW HD.

Ah, were you talking about the smoke effects making the framerate drop if you killed a lot of enemies at once? Guess we were talking about two separate things

 

[ibyea]

It's true. Aonuma left a young team to work on TP while he moved on to PH. When he came back to TP everything was a mess and they had to stitch everything back together. Aonuma apparently didn't know what producers were actually suppose to do, so Miyamoto had to come in and be the producer midway.

It's also worth noting Aonuma wanted to leave Zelda after TWW but Miyamoto dragged him back in for Twilight Princess. o___o

You know, that kind of explains a lot of things that I find wrong with TP. Which is a shame because there are many aspects of TP that I like.

 

[AniHawk]

I am flabbergasted! Never knew any of this. This makes me even more sad of the outcome, as it could've easily be prevented with an experienced zelda-guru such as either miyamoto or aonuma, or even someone else, guiding and helping the young team at all times. I always felt that TP wasn't really a cohesive game and many things of potential revealed in the first trailers, such as large fields and animals, weren't realized in the slightest.

going by the earliest trailers, what was left in, and the fact that super smash bros. brawl's sheik design was based off leftovers from early twilight princess, the original twilight princess was probably going to actually be ocarina of time 2. the big speculation with that game was that it was to bridge the gap between ocarina of time and the wind waker in a way.

 

[Instro]

Aonuma stepped in because TP was in development hell, seventh circle. It was basically just a bunch of high concept set pieces with nothing connecting them when he took over.

It's true. Aonuma left a young team to work on TP while he moved on to PH. When he came back to TP everything was a mess and they had to stitch everything back together. Aonuma apparently didn't know what producers were actually suppose to do, so Miyamoto had to come in and be the producer midway.

It's also worth noting Aonuma wanted to leave Zelda after TWW but Miyamoto dragged him back in for Twilight Princess. o___o

Not that I doubt either of you, but I'm just curious about the proof behind this.

 

[MisterGrey3000]

TP's bumpy development history is quite fascinating, but I don't feel like it's primordial troubles negatively effected the final product.

But that didn't happen: after the 3rd dungeon, it basically goes into only dungeons from there on out: No nice sidequeast in between dungeons, no fun filler and no interesting NPC/character development. No interesting gameplay enhancements (aside from the usual gaining items and sword skills, which are only used in dungeons basically).

Did we play different versions of TP?
There was tons of stuff happening between almost all of the dungeons in terms of new mechanics, NPCs, and non-dungeon events.
It sounds like you just didn't like what was offered.


Also, as long as I live I'll never understand MM's cult following (that game is a mess in almost every aspect that doesn't involve side-quest)...but keep on keeping on.

 

[zeldablue]

going by the earliest trailers, what was left in, and the fact that super smash bros. brawl's sheik design was based off leftovers from early twilight princess, the original twilight princess was probably going to actually be ocarina of time 2. the big speculation with that game was that it was to bridge the gap between ocarina of time and the wind waker in a way.

Yeahhh...

And we turned out to be right. TP Link was going to be OoT/MM Link. There's even a character in Hyrule Historia who was probably a human version of Navi.

I'm pissed that that didn't happen!

 

[AniHawk]

Yeahhh...

And we turned out to be right. TP Link was going to be OoT/MM Link. There's even a character in Hyrule Historia who was probably a human version of Navi.

I'm pissed that that didn't happen!

it can still happen! maybe in 2018 for oot's 20th anniversary.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Not that I doubt either of you, but I'm just curious about the proof behind this.

Yeahh.. Zeldablue got the goods like she was a fly on a wall there..

any source we can read up on some of these things? I knew of it but it seems like theres even more details.

 

[MisterGrey3000]

Yeahh.. Zeldablue got the goods like she was a fly on a wall there..

any source we can read up on some of these things? I knew of it but it seems like theres even more details.

Hahaha
She's not really revealing anything new or crazy; this is basic stuff for Zelda fans who take interest in the behind the scenes stuff.

Here is the Iwata Asks for TP

Aonuma mentions that the original team was making a game who's scale was becoming a bit wild and unruly before he got involved in the project; he also mentions making various attempts to "...rein in the project...", but he says that it was a bit difficult seeing as it's hard to completely change a project of TP's size.
Furthermore, he talks about Miyamoto weighing in on the game's development to fix a few problems and teach the youngsters a thing or two about game development.


Edit: Man, I wish Nintendo would make more dev docs.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Hahaha
She's not really revealing anything new or crazy; this is basic stuff for Zelda fans who take interest in the behind the scenes stuff.

Here is the Iwata Asks for TP

Aonuma mentions that the original team was making a game who's scale was becoming a bit wild and unruly before he got involved in the project; he also mentions making various attempts to "...rein in the project...", but he says that it was a bit difficult seeing as it's hard to completely change a project of TP's size.
Furthermore, he talks about Miyamoto weighing in on the game's development to fix a few problems and teach the youngsters a thing or two about game development.


Edit: Man, I wish Nintendo would make more dev docs.

I know its not new I just didnt know about in depth like that lol. Like the whole aonouma didnt know what producers job was but he was the damn producer??? lmao.. c'mon now aonouma

 

[MisterGrey3000]

I know its not new I just didnt know about in depth like that lol. Like the whole aonouma didnt know what producers job was but he was the damn producer??? lmao.. c'mon now aonouma

Errr...sounds like she's embellishing with that part.

 

[banofypie]

I do wonder how long this one has been cooking, but then I begin to wonder if the lack of development issues Nintendo has at the moment is because of how many studios they get help from.

Maybe that Platinum developed Zelda will be real after all.

 

[GiantEnemyGoomba]

So guys what are we discussi-

Maybe that Platinum developed Zelda will be real after all.

 

[banofypie]

It's that kind of stubborn attitude that stopped Zelda from flourishing and began its journey into stagnation.

 

[TheMoon]

. Xenoblade, for example, has several of these, and the only "tangible" rewards you get for finding them are a few experience and skill points. I still had lots of fun finding them because the environments were artfully and creatively designed. I'll call it empty if there's too little gameplay hidden in places like this, but I don't need it in every single corner.

Dat hidden slide in Valak Mountain. Duuuuuude. Loved it so much!

TP had, where you exited Kakariko to the north, a large rocky cliff face made of several different levels and shapes, and it was scalable. There was a Piece of Heart at the end of it, but there didn't have to be. If there were more structures like that in the environment, just having those options for interaction would be enough, even if not all of them have a "reward" at the end. The fun of climbing and discovery can be its own reward, especially in a game like this where you can then jump off and drift down to rejoin the world safely.

TP also had this awesome cave by Lake Hylia which basically was a mini-mini-dungeon. It was a sort of pitch-black maze that requires lots of bombs and has some pretty dangerous enemy encounters if you happen to run out of lamp oil. During my current replay, I had to come back there three times now to complete it.

I think jumping would revolutionize 3D Zelda (think Roc's cape). It needs a jump button badly. Also Epona needs Pegasus wings.

Link don't need no jump.

You don't really need to jump if there's no need to jump. For everything else, the auto jump works just fine.

Remember the game is made around the fact that you can't freely jump. So it's not like it's holding the game back or something. If they want to make a dungeon where the character should be jumping around, then they can make an item for it (like Roc's Feather) or the put some kind of mechanic in the dungeon where something shoots you up (either a spring or wind).

This. Jumping for the sake of jumping is so silly and not "revolutionary" at all. Zelda is not a platformer.

 

[HYDE]

You don't really need to jump if there's no need to jump. For everything else, the auto jump works just fine.

Remember the game is made around the fact that you can't freely jump. So it's not like it's holding the game back or something. If they want to make a dungeon where the character should be jumping around, then they can make an item for it (like Roc's Feather) or the put some kind of mechanic in the dungeon where something shoots you up (either a spring or wind).

Untrue...just limit the height/width of the jump just like previous zelda games have. Minish/Oracle Seasons and Ages/Links Awakening prove it does not unbalance the game but adds more depth and abilities. Auto jump is my biggest gripe with every Zelda game that does it.

 

[banofypie]

Untrue...just limit the height/width of the jump just like previous zelda games have. Minish/Oracle Seasons and Ages/Links Awakening prove it does not unbalance the game but adds more depth and abilities. Auto jump is my biggest gripe with every Zelda game that does it.

It gives to much freedom for a 3D game and sequence breaking means the only way it would work is if it's the final item from the final dungeon. With the way Zelda U seems to be going, I can't see that being an easy thing to implement.

 

[HYDE]

With Zelda's focus on puzzles, I can't see this being a thing that happens. 3D Zeldas rely on very rigid rulesets in order to actually work and feel tightly designed. A jump button would ruin that rigid design, even if it was just an item. To accommodate for it, you'd need to basically uproot everything that Zelda now is and create something that fundamentally isn't a Zelda game.

Hence why it could revitalize the series.
A jump button does not make a game a platformer...just think Shadow of the Colossus among many other equally awesome action adventure games that have a jump button.

I am 35 years old this Spring, I got The Legend of Zelda on NES for Christmas in 1987 when I was 7 years old and beat Ganon when I was 8...I was born in 1980. I've been playing these games for awhile now. DonkeyKong/Mario/Metroid/Zelda/Icarus series have been borrowing ideas from eachother since their inceptions.

The Adventure of Link and Super Mario Bros. 2 were my biggest video game childhood disappointments...thank goodness for Super Mario Bros. 3/Super Mario World and The Legend of Zelda:ALttP.

Done arguing about jumping/flying agree to disagree.

 

[banofypie]

Hence why it could revitalize the series.
A jump button does not make a game a platformer...just think Shadow of the Colossus among many other equally awesome action adventure games that have a jump button.

I am 35 years old this Spring, I got The Legend of Zelda on NES for Christmas in 1987 when I was 7 years old and beat Ganon when I was 8...I was born in 1980. I've been playing these games for awhile now. DonkeyKong/Mario/Metroid/Zelda/Icarus series have been borrowing ideas from eachother since their inceptions.

The Adventure of Link and Super Mario Bros. 2 were my biggest video game childhood disappointments...thank goodness for Super Mario Bros. 3/Super Mario World and The Legend of Zelda:ALttP.

Done arguing about jumping/flying agree to disagree.

But, Zelda isn't an action adventure game any more. It's an adventure game with puzzles. If you want Zelda to become a more action orientated game, your gripe is with OoT and OoT alone. It set down the rules for 3D Zelda, rules that if broken, would change fundamentally what a 3D Zelda is and make it into something that is generally not going to feel like a Zelda game. SotC isn't a game with puzzles, it's a game with puzzle bosses. It's a bad comparison that seems to have only arisen because of this new footage.

Also your age only goes against your argument. You are the old guard whining about the new generation and the changes. That's just you not being comfortable with the idea of things changing, and the Zelda 2/SMB2 thing just bores that in.

 

[zeldablue]

I know its not new I just didnt know about in depth like that lol. Like the whole aonouma didnt know what producers job was but he was the damn producer??? lmao.. c'mon now aonouma

"Twilight Princess was an interesting time for me. I started off as producer but had to move to director - the reason for that was I didn't really know what a producer did. I didn't really know what was expected of me. But through my projects since I've learned what is expected of me."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-14-breaking-the-link-to-the-past-zeldas-eiji-aonuma

He said it a lot in recent interviews.

 

[Jakten]

I think jumping would revolutionize 3D Zelda (think Roc's cape). It needs a jump button badly. Also Epona needs Pegasus wings.

I don't think Jumping would be necessary, I feel like the jump mechanic it has already is good enough. I would however not mind some kind of advanced terrain navigation similar to Assassins creed though. Not anything too crazy just something that makes walking over small ledges/climbing up blocks feel and look more fluid.

 

[tesla246]

TP's bumpy development history is quite fascinating, but I don't feel like it's primordial troubles negatively effected the final product.



Did we play different versions of TP?
There was tons of stuff happening between almost all of the dungeons in terms of new mechanics, NPCs, and non-dungeon events.
It sounds like you just didn't like what was offered.

There is some truth in it though. After the 3rd dungeon,

Spoiler

Ganondorf turns out to be the bad guy, zant no longer plays a role

, the story stops developing and is basically

Spoiler

ganondorf

awaits you ate the castle, which you cant enter yet. Gerudo desert, snowpeak mountains temple of time, are all just empty ''walk-through areas'' lacking any NPC interaction, puzzles or side quests, just empty areas you travel through just once, right before entering a dungeon. The rewards in, for example the gerudo desert area, for searching every nook and cranny are awful as well: just rupees, which you cant carry because of a full wallet.

Also, what I mean is that between dungeons you are AT MOST 10 minutes busy before entering the next dungeon: in castle town, the four characters in the pub basically spoil for you where to go next and what to do, and can mostly be done RIGHT AFTER you complete the previous dungeon. There are no longer are any interesting story developmenst, sidequeusts, rewards or new NPC to be had, or new areas outside of dungeons, the game is done at this point, I felt, only dungeons are left really. For example: entering snowpeak ruins, only requires

Spoiler

a red fish you have to capture yourself in a specific spot

, which is all spoiled where and what and how by the tavern girl. City in the sky only requires the

Spoiler

dominion rod

, which you got in the temple of time and just warp to lake hylia to get the cannon fixed, and your done. Accessing the desert only requires speaking to the guy in the tavern just gives you a notice, so that this guy at lake hylia he saved once just gives you the access towards the desert for free, requiring no input from the players accomplishment at all. In the end, the game just stops after the 3rd dungeon and

Spoiler

Zant's

defeat, and basically just connects the reamaing dungeons through some tedious extremely small fetch quest, which can all be completed within ten minutes, the game just stops developing and throwing new things at you. Items have no use outside of dungeons, rewards are broken, rupees are broken, NPC don't develop, hyrule castle town is livid, but void of any interaction with the most people, you cant even talk to them and the game is too way way WAY too easy. Dungeons where good though...dungeons where damn good.

 

[Huh?]

That's not totally accurate, if you want to talk about new side quests and minigames most of the Malo Mart stuff happens after the first three dungeons, there's a snowboarding minigame, there's the Cave of Ordeals, there's the wild west shootout and cat huntin' in the Hidden Village, etc. In particular, I think you at least have to say the first four dungeons have more content in between, because prior to the Arbiter's Ground you infiltrate Hyrule Castle, you get the Master Sword, you do the aforementioned cannon thing, and you infiltrate the lair of the Bulblins and get into a duel with the King Bulblin. I mean, it's not as much as the first three, but it's also not comparable to something like the Temple of Time where you barely have to do anything before it. Anyway, I hope Nintendo doesn't take the hatred of Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword as evidence that they should just shunt people between dungeons with little main quest content outside of that, because I prefer it when you have to earn your next dungeon and get to experience different things from just all dungeons, all the time. ALBW seemed like it was headed in the latter direction and I hope that's not a sign of how Zelda's gonna be from now on.

 

[PooBone]

To be fair, it's not like Link can voice his opinions or what he wants.
Generally I find silent protagonists can be described as "compliant" more than anything..

Ditto.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

"Twilight Princess was an interesting time for me. I started off as producer but had to move to director - the reason for that was I didn't really know what a producer did. I didn't really know what was expected of me. But through my projects since I've learned what is expected of me."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-14-breaking-the-link-to-the-past-zeldas-eiji-aonuma

He said it a lot in recent interviews.

Did he say anything else like what he was actually doing instead? Id like to know that lol

edit: The lack of a jump button in zelda is great I always thought it was weird when I played it first but now I love it. Id be pretty confused if they added it in.

 

[zeldablue]

That's not totally accurate, if you want to talk about new side quests and minigames most of the Malo Mart stuff happens after the first three dungeons, there's a snowboarding minigame, there's the Cave of Ordeals, there's the wild west shootout and cat huntin' in the Hidden Village, etc. In particular, I think you at least have to say the first four dungeons have more content in between, because prior to the Arbiter's Ground you infiltrate Hyrule Castle, you get the Master Sword, you do the aforementioned cannon thing, and you infiltrate the lair of the Bulblins and get into a duel with the King Bulblin. I mean, it's not as much as the first three, but it's also not comparable to something like the Temple of Time where you barely have to do anything before it. Anyway, I hope Nintendo doesn't take the hatred of Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword as evidence that they should just shunt people between dungeons with little main quest content outside of that, because I prefer it when you have to earn your next dungeon and get to experience different things from just all dungeons, all the time. ALBW seemed like it was headed in the latter direction and I hope that's not a sign of how Zelda's gonna be from now on.

Yeah. I actually loved all the in between content in TP. Except for all the wolf sections and the Sky Book thing. (Basically, anytime you just have to collect shit is when I hate playing Zelda...which is why SS was awful.) I hope they go down that route of interesting miscellaneous story quests, because it's the closest to how MM, Oracles and LA handled getting into the next dungeon. It's a strong point of the series for me.

Did he say anything else like what he was actually doing instead? Id like to know that lol

edit: The lack of a jump button in zelda is great I always thought it was weird when I played it first but now I love it. Id be pretty confused if they added it in.

I guess he didn't know how to be a boss? The higher you go up the more management and business you have to deal with. He done goof'd, basically. I still love TP though.

 

[ReyVGM]

"Twilight Princess was an interesting time for me. I started off as producer but had to move to director - the reason for that was I didn't really know what a producer did. I didn't really know what was expected of me. But through my projects since I've learned what is expected of me."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-14-breaking-the-link-to-the-past-zeldas-eiji-aonuma

He said it a lot in recent interviews.

Well, to his defense, there's a running gag on hollywood that no one really knows what a producer does either.

 

[Huh?]

Yeah. I actually loved all the in between content in TP. Except for all the wolf sections and the Sky Book thing. (Basically, anytime you just have to collect shit is when I hate playing Zelda...which is why SS was awful.) I hope they go down that route of interesting miscellaneous story quests, because it's the closest to how MM, Oracles and LA handled getting into the next dungeon. It's a strong point of the series for me.




I guess he didn't know how to be a boss? The higher you go up the more management and business you have to deal with. He done goof'd, basically. I still love TP though.

I mostly enjoyed the wolf stuff because the collection aspect wasn't such a big deal, it was way more about exploring and seeing what the inhabitants of the world of light are up to as spirits under attack by shadow monsters. Although one's very first encounter with a lot of these characters and locations being Twilit was an odd choice.

 

[BY2K]

What IS the difference between a Director and a Producer?