I voted again
with a different email address.
Yes, pugs are adorable. Low maintenance too.
A reckless driver I assume?
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I voted again
Yes, pugs are adorable. Low maintenance too.
A reckless driver I assume?
Not entirely the driver's fault. The road my dog ran across, and the one I ran across chasing after her, is notorious for near-hits and actual crashes. The road was clear so I ran but failed to see the car come round the corner so it's kind of both our fault.
...Cubs? I didn't even know that was a thing until now >.<
So we've got Bears, Otters, Cubs, what else am I missing? Foxes? Wolves? Lizards?
Good luck Sai-kun!
So we've got Bears, Otters, Cubs, what else am I missing? Foxes? Wolves? Lizards?
Same
Dragons....Cubs? I didn't even know that was a thing until now >.<
So we've got Bears, Otters, Cubs, what else am I missing? Foxes? Wolves? Lizards?
Good luck Sai-kun!Same
Me too. One of the few times where juggling with two is an advantage.
D
Deleted member 465307
Unconfirmed Member
Since seeing everyone else's posts about voting got me to actually do something...just put my two votes in. Good luck!
...Cubs? I didn't even know that was a thing until now >.<
So we've got Bears, Otters, Cubs, what else am I missing? Foxes? Wolves? Lizards?
Good luck Sai-kun!Same
Lynxes. :3
Voted again with another email address that I had. (First time using it in years. ^^)
tiebreaker
Member
voted, twice. Good luck sai-kun.
Indeed.
Astral Dog
Member
Hi, don`t really like to talk about this, but im becoming more desperate...
, most of my family are either religious, conservative or especially, homophobic, due to some depression i had 9 years ago was basically left with no self esteem.
im scared, lonely, never talked with anyone all my life about this because i was too much of a coward and afraid that they would throw me out, or worse, just leave there and mock me, for years i could not fully understand what was wrong with me, thinking that my parents would be better off if i killed myself so they would not be ashamed.
My sister is the only friend i have left and the one i talk to most but she is disgusted too, i could never trust anyone with this because i was too paranoid, even if i should have, good classmates and teachers i could really talk to even if they weren`t exactly supportive they surely would had helped in some way,
because that,i could not had a "normal" life,hell nobody even knows im still depressed because i learned to hide it and smile.
Basically, im a freak that never could accept himself, really dont know how people can live with themselves like that, they are very brave.
, most of my family are either religious, conservative or especially, homophobic, due to some depression i had 9 years ago was basically left with no self esteem.
im scared, lonely, never talked with anyone all my life about this because i was too much of a coward and afraid that they would throw me out, or worse, just leave there and mock me, for years i could not fully understand what was wrong with me, thinking that my parents would be better off if i killed myself so they would not be ashamed.
My sister is the only friend i have left and the one i talk to most but she is disgusted too, i could never trust anyone with this because i was too paranoid, even if i should have, good classmates and teachers i could really talk to even if they weren`t exactly supportive they surely would had helped in some way,
because that,i could not had a "normal" life,hell nobody even knows im still depressed because i learned to hide it and smile.
Basically, im a freak that never could accept himself, really dont know how people can live with themselves like that, they are very brave.
tiebreaker
Member
Hi Sub Boss! Please don't kill yourself. If you need someone to talk to, you can pm me or other members here in the thread. They are usually pretty nice.
Just know that you are not alone. There are people who still cares for you and also people who has experienced the same thing as you.
I found this on the Internet, the videos are really nice and pretty much on point. http://www.itgetsbetter.org
Where do you live? I would highly suggest joining a group or community in your area, do something that may interest you.
SoraanTribal
Member
Not to compare ourselves too much, but I know where you are coming from in some ways with my own very conservative and religious family.. like all of 'em. And I have also had some dark thoughts (suicide type stuff) over the years (even some thoughts creep into my head recently, too). That said, I'm really sorry you feel like you have no one you can talk to about this stuff. One of my best friends is gay, so that made it a lot easier for me to have someone to talk to, and my other best friend has been very supportive. I was completely closeted for SO long... Really, minus my gay friend, it's only been around a year or so since I came out to my other (straight) best friend. I don't know why I waited so long - just scared, I guess. I knew he wasn't homophobic or anything, but still.. I know it's hard to talk to anyone about this stuff.
You aren't a freak, though - far from it. I feel like given your (and my) situation, it's not too surprising or abnormal for you to want to hide all those things about yourself. You are scared of their reaction just like I am. I was really proud of myself for coming out to my friends, but I feel like a coward for not coming out to my brother and his wife or my other family members.
I wish I had some advice on how to meet new friends (not even gay friends, but just friends in general), but it's hard once you get older and out of school. I have no idea where to go to meet people who share similar interests - maybe someone else can help us both in that department.
Do you live with your parents?
D
Deleted member 465307
Unconfirmed Member
Hi Sub Boss! You're right that it does take some bravery to accept oneself and be honest with others, but people who aren't out or comfortable with themselves are certainly NOT cowards. Everyone has their own path, and in many ways, it is a journey rather than a destination (cliché, I know, but true). I would guess that a lot of the people on this board have struggled with their identity at some point and may continue to to this day (at the very least, this describes me). Mental health issues are also something that I think a lot of us have dealt with in the past or currently do (again, at the very least, this describes me). Please feel to PM me if you'd like to talk in a more private setting about any of this. If you stick around this group, I think you'll generally find a very welcoming and supportive community who can offer advice, attempt to answer questions, and just help you sort out things. I'm pretty sure we're all still learning who we are and what that means (*cough cough* me again *cough cough*), and I think we'd be more than happy to help you do the same. But don't feel any pressure at all. You make the rules for what you need, want, or should do, and I think we're all going to 100% accept that.
Astral Dog
Member
Thanks guys, i only needed someone to talk to, figured would make things better,
Dont even hate myself anymore for being gay (who even cares, right?) but this self loathing, issues since 9 years ago(some family and school stuff) made things worse and growed over the years.still enjoyed college, was happy there but since i finished one year ago started with anxiety problems again.
Actually, have this foolish dream of someday leave this godforsaken town and have a "normal" life !, get some friends to, you know, just talk to, maybe even go to the movies.
its not impossible, my parents could send me to study or something, they are very supportive as long as am not depressed (or gay) love them anyways. what can you do?
Anyways, this forum helped a lot this past year, you can really learn something meaninful every day. good or bad.
i know its pathetic, at least my young sister knows this and she will be going to college far away next year after coming from New York.
One reason i want to move is that if i leave myself here, i wouldnt be ble to do anything without them,
well, could be worse really, at Graduation some teachers told me that everything was going to be fine and i just needed a bit of self esteem, maybe they are right.
Dont even hate myself anymore for being gay (who even cares, right?) but this self loathing, issues since 9 years ago(some family and school stuff) made things worse and growed over the years.still enjoyed college, was happy there but since i finished one year ago started with anxiety problems again.
Actually, have this foolish dream of someday leave this godforsaken town and have a "normal" life !, get some friends to, you know, just talk to, maybe even go to the movies.
its not impossible, my parents could send me to study or something, they are very supportive as long as am not depressed (or gay
) love them anyways. what can you do? Anyways, this forum helped a lot this past year, you can really learn something meaninful every day. good or bad.
Yes, in fact i depend on them both economically and emotionally, have two brothers much older than me and they still somewhat dependent on them.
i know its pathetic, at least my young sister knows this and she will be going to college far away next year after coming from New York.
One reason i want to move is that if i leave myself here, i wouldnt be ble to do anything without them,
well, could be worse really, at Graduation some teachers told me that everything was going to be fine and i just needed a bit of self esteem, maybe they are right.
It's not pathetic at all. It might seem out of the norm for you, but I assure you that there are many other people around your age and in similar situations when it comes to dependence. I mean, I'm living technically on my own with roommates, but I'm still dependent on my parents, especially my dad, for a lot of things. I know it's not something you 'get over' right away, but just know that it doesn't make you pathetic to have that connection.
Take things a day at a time, and you will make it.
D
Deleted member 465307
Unconfirmed Member
Interesting idea. Sounds like a potential way of making your life easier (at least, the daily experience). If I can offer my thoughts...just make sure you're keeping in mind the differences between verbal acceptance and emotional acceptance. One could lead to the other or it may not.
Wasn't your sister also not straight?
Sorry for your loss and for not condoling earlier.
CornBurrito
Member
Try meetup.com
Wouldn't you be placing yourself in a position where you're surrounded by people who do not?
I wouldn't do that. I don't think it's a fair trade.
Henchmen21
Banned
Almost 5am and still awake
DOWN
Banned
Dance with meAlmost 5am and still awake
Henchmen21
Banned
Changed your username again Panth?
DOWN
Banned
Yes. I don't know what I was thinking before. I'm wild about one syllable names and titles. Much better now.
Henchmen21
Banned
DOWN
Banned
I lasted a few years with the one I first came to lettersGAF with and 5 months with PANTHEON so have some faith!So....opening bets? Two weeks before you change it again?
Barrylocke
Member
Oh no, I was referring to
cum gutters.
Although the podcast itself sounds cool. I'm not as into the comics side but I may listen to a few episodes and see how it is.
My one personal vice about this is that as large as the NeoGAF community is compared to other forums, people (at least people with a similar mindset as me) likely won't realize that you are the same person. This will go double if you also change your avatar. It's the reason why once I settled on my Organic Energy Association banker dude avatar, I've decided to not change it.
See?! See?! Avatar changing is a very real concern
I have tried to get better about it though, especially with people in community threads such as here and Megaten Community, and with the people I played Mafia with.
Speaking of which, are you excited to begin playing, HippieHobo?
Yes, she was homosexual too.
That's true :/
Well, it could make things easier in the next 5 years at least. Living with my father is already a hell at times and I don't want to complicate things even more.
I won't matter, I guess. I'm not dating anyone and currently I'm not pursuing a relationship, so I don't have to make this deal with my father.
Did anyone else read this article? It's an extended essay on gay cultural history, and the idea that "being gay" has historically meant something different than just your sexual orientation, but "comprises a set of markers or values or practices that manifest themselves in the spaces and objects and relationships that gay men create."
As the author says, this view is currently anathema in the gay community, but even if you don't think there is anything distinctive about gayness beyond who you're attracted to, it is still a fascinating article about the history of the gay community as a cultural phenomenon and quasi-ethnic group in the twentieth century that I strongly recommend reading.
As the author says, this view is currently anathema in the gay community, but even if you don't think there is anything distinctive about gayness beyond who you're attracted to, it is still a fascinating article about the history of the gay community as a cultural phenomenon and quasi-ethnic group in the twentieth century that I strongly recommend reading.
Thanks yo, I'll read it during work today.
Swedes use "Gay Propaganda" to deter Russian submarines. This is awesome, lol.
Barrylocke
Member
TheAbsolution
Member
More like 28 yeah. You're OK.
See?! See?! Avatar changing is a very real concern
I have tried to get better about it though, especially with people in community threads such as here and Megaten Community, and with the people I played Mafia with.
Speaking of which, are you excited to begin playing, HippieHobo?
Yup, I'm excited! But I don't know how to play... or what my role allows me to do/not do. I'll have to ask Kartakor for some clarification.
This is very interesting. I'll have a look when I get home.
Swedes are amazing people. \o/
You're gonna be 26 or 27?
You're still a baby. I would say that the 40's is when the real fun starts.
I'm about halfway through it, and I'm not really enjoying it. The author is seemingly hellbent on conflating contemporary american gay culture with gay culture in general. That coupled with a far too strong influence from his own experience with the culture ("Nothing really happened until such time as I identified myself as a [culturally] gay man.") makes it a disappointingly narrow article so far. And the assertion that the gay identity was born in the 1800s is one that is a bit shaky; it is true that it is from this period where we have concrete evidence of people using language identifying sexual orientation in a somewhat similar manner to that which we use today. But that alone isn't proof of the birth of an identity, the scarcity of earlier works discussing sex (or hell, the scarcity of earlier works discussing anything but the nobility) means that it is fully possible for the culture to have existed (in a form or other) earlier than the 1800s.
I might read through all of it and expand on my thoughts later, but not really a fan.
Indeed we are.
Phew *wipes forehead*
Turned 26 today, there's still a few things I want to achieve before officially entering my late twenties, so I was kinda worried for a moment that I was already too late
I feel the same. That we can't relate to his experience is exactly why the "trend" is to not assume anything about a gay person other than his / her homosexuality. It makes for a much more welcoming environment IMO, people can now identify as gay even if they don't worship Britney Spears or fashion (using examples mentioned by the author). He, of course, is free to preserve what he considers as gay culture, no one is trying to prevent that, but he basically feels annoyed that gay people come in different flavors even if it wasn't that evident before.
Hahahaha, oh god.
I missed it the first time around in that article but this is utterly pathetic and sums up everything I dislike about that article:
"I didn't have the chance". Fuck that noise. You had nothing but the chance to explore that side of history, you had every chance to explore the full extent of global gay culture, you had every chance to see what being gay means for someone who isn't like you. Instead we end up with yet another retread of the same old stories about gay, white males.
I'm not sorry I'm not like you, I'm not sorry that I don't like what you like, I am however very sorry for how narrow your world must be.
I missed it the first time around in that article but this is utterly pathetic and sums up everything I dislike about that article:
"I didn't have the chance". Fuck that noise. You had nothing but the chance to explore that side of history, you had every chance to explore the full extent of global gay culture, you had every chance to see what being gay means for someone who isn't like you. Instead we end up with yet another retread of the same old stories about gay, white males.
I'm not sorry I'm not like you, I'm not sorry that I don't like what you like, I am however very sorry for how narrow your world must be.
I actually really enjoyed reading this. Not sure what, if any, conclusions it wanted me to draw; but it prompted me to think a lot about the stuff mentioned. Especially how 'not for me' a lot of gay culture is. I kind of hate how hard it is to say 'no thanks, that's not for me' without people hearing 'that's bad and wrong.' For example, a lot of drag stuff. Not just drag but calling people sis, using feminine pronouns? Not for me. Totally awesome for the people who are in to it, really interesting thing, but not at all something that resonates with me. A lot of 'gay icons' are people I've never heard of or have but I'm not really into; but that doesn't mean I have a problem with them. But they exist, and there's a whole culture of gayness based around stuff like them so it's interesting to look at where that comes from and how and why it propagates.
If my not being a part of that means the gay community would prefer I not identify as gay (which I doubt, but I'll leave that decision to the 'queens'); then ok. Ethnically straight I am.
Hahahaha, oh god.
I missed it the first time around in that article but this is utterly pathetic and sums up everything I dislike about that article:
"I didn't have the chance". Fuck that noise. You had nothing but the chance to explore that side of history, you had every chance to explore the full extent of global gay culture, you had every chance to see what being gay means for someone who isn't like you. Instead we end up with yet another retread of the same old stories about gay, white males.
I'm not sorry I'm not like you, I'm not sorry that I don't like what you like, I am however very sorry for how narrow your world must be.
The most annoying thing about being in a marginalized group is that the "least" marginalized is designated the spokesperson. This is most apparent in LGBTQIA+ communities since the white, cisgender gay man is usually the face of the movement. Which is highly problematic because they don't see things the same way the most marginalized do, as is most apparent from this article. Even something as simple as including a female perspective is an obstruction of his "gay culture findings." Total BS.
American culure is highly influential in any gay community in any part of the world, to the point almost everyone uses the term "gay", here in latinamerica is basically the only not pejorative term to refer to homosexuality for instance.
The common thing about homosexuality around the world is how invisible it is, it's not surprise the US is so relevant then, since it's the place where the civil rights movement for sexual minorities started. It's the epicenter, from protests to stuff like drag acts or pride parades, these all are american made.
I'll read the rest of the article later (it's lengthy!) But I don't get why are you guys dismissing it.
I always thought it was European countries who were at the front for civil rights for sexual minorities. Up until the early 2000's the US still had Sodomy laws, and in Countries like Sweden, homosexuality was decriminalized in the 40's (if I'm not mistaken).
The US lags behind.
I'm not denying US influence over gay culture (or culture in general) but the culture which he is describing is specific in more than one instance to the US. Also the modern gay rights movement didn't actually start in the US, I think it is the Netherlands who gets that honour.
The central problem with the article is not that he assigns gay as a more of a cultural label, but that it is his label and that people who do not fall into what he (and he alone) dictates as gay have no business calling themselves as such. The author is so incapable of emphasising with someone who does not share his experiences and preferences that he doesn't understand why they would like to decorate their apartment differently. It is a piece which deserves nothing but mockery and scorn.
edit:
It was decriminalised in Sweden in 1944, but remained classified as a mental illness until the 70s. The process of removing the classification was kind of wonderful though so if there is interest I could do a write-up of the events leading up to that.
But I think Denmark and the Netherlands were way ahead of us on this particular matter, and the reason why the US tends to get credit is because the Stonewall riots and the radicalisation of the gay rights movement which followed.
I don't think narrow is the right word. There is no such thing as "gay culture" as an international phenomenon, so it feels uncharitable to me to criticize him for focusing on gay culture as it manifests and has historically been understood where he lives. He acknowledges this - that this specific version is "largely a British/American animal with a studied French accent." He's not making claims to universal applicability. I suspect he sees his article as contributing to a conversation among American gay men about "the end of gay culture," as Andrew Sullivan put it a decade ago, which was also about gay culture as it exists in the United States and the idea that it would no longer be distinguishable from the mainstream or heterosexual culture as homosexuality stopped being important as a social identifier.
I also don't think that the claim is shaky at all. It's widely accepted that it was the medicalization in the late nineteenth century that gave homosexuals a discrete identity (they were a specific type of person, rather than just a sinner), and an identity that wasn't wrapped up in condemnatory Biblical sexual mores, and that it was urbanization and industrialization that afforded homosexuals the widespread combination of anonymity and homosocial spaces (e.g. work, men coming into cities to work). It might be possible that there were small, covert gay communities before this time, but if you've read histories of just how visible - they advertised balls in newspapers in the early 1900s - the gay community was in cities like New York, Berlin, London, or Paris at the turn of the century, I think you'll agree that there's a difference of kind and not just degree between the communities we know came about in the late 19th century and the ones we're speculating about.
Is this something he says explicitly and I just missed it, or is this subtext you're reading out of it? I didn't see that.
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