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[umop_3pisdn]

I think calling it a "sometimes insult" is downplaying it, more than just a bit.

Secondly, the "sometimes unproblematic word" is exactly what I'm taking issue with, because I think it fails as such due to hits history as the former.

Taking the opinion that it is fine to take back the word is fine. Downplaying the history of the word as it was used to try and prove your point is not.

It's not downplaying anything, it's literally true, sometimes it is an insult, and sometimes it isn't, it's far more accurate than what you said.

We're not in the process of taking back the word, the word has been effectively taken back, at least enough for me to say so, it's why you can expect to see "queer studies" as a topic in college, and know in an immediate and uncomplicated way exactly what it is referring to. Sometimes reifying everything into its own labels presents its own problems, namely that it presents everything as too-discrete, leaving everything as a vague cloud of "queerness" has its own sort of precision about how not-exact human sexuality, etc, is.

 

[Tuck]

It's not downplaying anything, it's literally true, sometimes it is an insult, and sometimes it isn't, it's far more accurate than what you said.

We're not in the process of taking back the word, the word has been effectively taken back, at least enough for me to say so, it's why you can expect to see "queer studies" as a topic in college, and know in an immediate and uncomplicated way exactly what it is referring to.

Yes, and I'm saying it was wrong to do so.

Nothing I said was incorrect. The word was, for a long time, used as a very derogatory word for gay people, and in some circles it still is. "Sometimes it is an insult, sometimes it isn't." Yes, because it was decided that they wanted to take back the word and that is exactly what I'm taking issue with. I'm saying it should not have happened. It was an insult before it wasn't. And before that it just meant unusual.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

Yes, and I'm saying it was wrong to do so.

Nothing I said was incorrect. The word was, for a long time, used as a very derogatory word for gay people, and in some circles it still is. "Sometimes it is an insult, sometimes it isn't." Yes, because it was decided that they wanted to take back the word and that is exactly what I'm taking issue with. I'm saying it should not have happened. It was an insult before it wasn't. And before that it just meant unusual.

I'm just asking you to literally think for two seconds about why it was reclaimed, what are the benefits of this particular word, why it did stick and why it did fall into the niche that it has, and why other words haven't.

 

[Tuck]

I'm just asking you to literally think for two seconds about why it was reclaimed, what are the benefits of this particular word, why it did stick and why it did fall into the niche that it has, and why other words haven't.

And I'm just asking you to literally think for two seconds about why it should not have been reclaimed and why it might make someone uncomfortable.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

And I'm just asking you to literally think for two seconds about why it should not have been reclaimed and why it might make someone uncomfortable.

I have no trouble seeing why it might make someone uncomfortable, but context should make it completely unambiguous what it is that I am saying. At this point it isn't misspeaking (whether it should or should not have been reclaimed seems utterly irrelevant to me), so I won't pretend that I am misspeaking.

 

[Tuck]

I have no trouble seeing why it might make someone uncomfortable, but context should make it completely unambiguous what it is that I am saying. At this point it isn't misspeaking (whether it should or should not have been reclaimed seems utterly irrelevant to me), so I won't pretend that I am misspeaking.

As far as I'm concerned, the argument was over whether or not it should have been reclaimed/be in the process of being reclaimed - whether there is value in the word. If you disagree, fine, but then I have no idea what the point of your posts were.

To get me to admit that it has been? Ok, I don't care about conceding that point or not. Makes no difference to me, its completely irrelevant to the point I was making.

Spoiler

This is what happens when I get bored at work, apparently.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

As far as I'm concerned, the argument was over whether or not it should have been reclaimed/be in the process of being reclaimed - whether there is value in the word. If you disagree, fine, but then I have no idea what the point of your postings were.

To get me to admit that it has been? Ok, I don't care about conceding that point or not. Makes no difference to me, its completely irrelevant to the point I was making.

Spoiler

This is what happens when I get bored at work, apparently.

Good lord, I just presented you with a reason for why there is value in the word: it tracks a particular concept with a degree of precision not found in any other words that I can think of.

My point about irrelevancy is exactly where you are divining your normative values from. That some people may be hurt is a consideration, not a deciding factor.

 

[Tuck]

Good lord, I just presented you with a reason for why there is value in the word: it tracks a particular concept with a degree of precision not found in any other words that I can think of.

My point about irrelevancy is exactly where you are divining your normative values from. That some people may be hurt is a consideration, not a deciding factor.

Are you seriously saying that making people uncomfortable in the very community that is supposed to accept and welcome them is acceptable because its convenient?

Yes, you have presented me with a reason there is value in the word. I have never denied that. I just don't think its worth it. See, I can hand wave away your reasoning just as easily as you hand wave mine.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

Are you seriously saying that making people uncomfortable in the very community that is supposed to accept and welcome them is acceptable because its convenient?

Yes, you have presented me with a reason there is value in the word. I have never denied that. I just don't think its worth it. See, I can hand wave away your reasoning just as easily as you hand wave mine.

If someone asks me to not use it when speaking to them, I will avoid using it, but I am not going to pre-empt them on that when my intentions are otherwise perfectly clear. I think we can respect people enough to expect them to know what someone means when they use certain words in certain contexts.

 

[Tuck]

If someone asks me to not use it when speaking to them, I will avoid using it, but I am not going to pre-empt them on that when my intentions are otherwise perfectly clear. I think we can respect people enough to expect them to know what someone means when they use certain words in certain contexts.

Certainly. Like I said, I understand that lots of other people feel differently on this, and I understand why. I disagree, and I believe I have made a reasonable case as to why, but I'm not gonna go punch someone out for using the word.

Though I might if they used the f word.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

Certainly. Like I said, I understand that lots of other people feel differently on this, and I understand why. I disagree, and I believe I have made a reasonable case as to why, but I'm not gonna go punch someone out for using the word.

Though I might if they used the f word.

Fair enough.

 

[The Emperor]

What are yalls stances on the word "fag" if used by a gay person?

I was having lunch with this dude and he described his roommate as "such a fag". It made me fairly uncomfortable.

.

Feel like fag can be a reclaimed slur but sometimes I've seen gay guys use it to mock more feminine gay guys and then I feel very uncomfortable with it...as it feels like a bit of internalised homophobia is at play there...or at the very least feelings of superiority over being masc or whatever.

The word Queer I kind of used to feel similarly towards...as I remember it being hurled as a slur at school. But as I see sooo many LGBT folk use it now I've kind of grown accustomed to it.

 

[berzeli]

Certainly. Like I said, I understand that lots of other people feel differently on this, and I understand why. I disagree, and I believe I have made a reasonable case as to why, but I'm not gonna go punch someone out for using the word.

Though I might if they used the f word.

Your case isn't that reasonable unfortunately. By the same logic which you have presented, i.e. a word sometimes being used as an insult (and I'd even argue that in the case of "queer" you can switch "sometimes" with "not often" these days) makes the word itself a no go, you also should not use the word gay.
Because gay is and has been used as an insult.
As has "homo".
As has a lot of other terminology regarding the LGBTQ community.

When it comes to words such as "dyke" and "fag", I'm perfectly willing (and somewhat personally inclined) to view them as "bad" words even when used in a positive context.

But I am quite glad that "queer" has been reclaimed. It, as umop so succinctly put it, "tracks a particular concept with a degree of precision not found in any other words that I can think of".
The term has real usage, and I think is good for the greater LGBTQ community especially for those who aren't entirely sure how they identify themselves in terms of sexuality/gender.

Sorry if it makes you uncomfortable, but "Queer" is here to stay. Get used to it.

 

[mantidor]

From what I remember queer is used in the UK the same way fag is used in the States, maybe Tuck is British

I don't know, these are just words, we kind of decide if we are going to give them power or not at the end.

 

[Tuck]

Your case isn't that reasonable unfortunately. By the same logic which you have presented, i.e. a word sometimes being used as an insult (and I'd even argue that in the case of "queer" you can switch "sometimes" with "not often" these days) makes the word itself a no go, you also should not use the word gay.
Because gay is and has been used as an insult.
As has "homo".
As has a lot of other terminology regarding the LGBTQ community.

When it comes to words such as "dyke" and "fag", I'm perfectly willing (and somewhat personally inclined) to view them as "bad" words even when used in a positive context.

See now this is a fair point, one that I don't really have an answer to. All I can point to is the use of some words being okay and some not, for some deeper reason that I can't really point to. Maybe because the gay-reclamation happened long before I knew what gay is?I don't know. And yet even you acknowledge that other words still have that icky feeling to them. Good point, reasonably stated.

Sorry if it makes you uncomfortable, but "Queer" is here to stay. Get used to it.

No. Though ultimately, it really makes no difference to me. I already feel a bit disenfranchised enough from the gay community*. They can use whatever words they want.

*edited to downplay this part a bit, its a tad more mopey than I really wanted it to be.

 

[Blood Diamonds]

"Fag" isn't even used in a positive way by gays. It's used to berate feminine gay men... Which is the same way it's used by straight people to berate feminine men. Nothing's being reclaimed, it's being used in the exact same way.

 

[Pamplemousse]

No. Though ultimately, it really makes no difference to me. I already feel disenfranchised enough from the gay community. They can use whatever words they want.

In what way(s) do you feel disenfranchised by the gay community?

 

[berzeli]

See now this is a fair point, one that I don't really have an answer to. All I can point to is the use of some words being okay and some not, for some deeper reason that I can't really point to. Maybe because the gay-reclamation happened long before I knew what gay is?I don't know. And yet even you acknowledge that other words still have that icky feeling to them. Good point, reasonably stated.

Well the reason for the ick-ness of those words is that they have no common usage other than as insults. And that the etymology for them is that they were (most probably) derived from or conceived as insults in both cases.
Queer on the other hand has had other meanings than as an insult, and has a common usage which isn't an insult.

No. Though ultimately, it really makes no difference to me. I already feel disenfranchised enough from the gay community. They can use whatever words they want.

I was being cute and making a play on the slogan ("We're Here! We're Queer! Get used to it!") which was part in making the reclamation of the word.

 

[dryuriev7777]

One time I had a client that repeatedly called me a "faggot" while throwing chairs at me/around the room. That was fun.

Words like that are usually nothing to me, as per the position I'm in and how I am to approach a variety of different people, but I always try to remind people to try to tone it down lest they say it front of someone they wish they hadn't. Just because a man is effeminate doesn't mean he isn't capable of driving a knife into your juggular.

Also this conversation made me think of one time where I jokingly said in front of a bunch of people that "I'm gay; therefore I'm allowed to be bitchy" and this chick jumped down my throat claiming that she's bisexual and I don't understand what some gay people go through and my stereotyping is exactly why homosexuality doesn't have the respect/rights it deserves. I mean she wasn't necessarily wrong, but man she was digging into me like I slaughtered her family.

Just always be careful, and if something doesn't sit right with you have a calm conversation with that person about it. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Crayons]

Can 'fag' ever be "reclaimed"? I don't think so. And I don't want it to be. I hear the word and it brings me back to middle school, elementary school, bullying, bigotry and hate. That connotation is going to be there for a long time.

 

[Tuck]

In what way(s) do you feel disenfranchised by the gay community?

A part of it is the community (or rather the experiences I have had with it) and a part of it (perhaps a big part) is me. Ok, looks like its self reflection time!

It frequently feels hyper sexualized, which is fun is small doses, but a bit... shallow in large ones. Theres a big emphasis on sleeping around, partying, and I've met more gays than I can count who are big on open relationships. Big no no for me (As in, I don't want one, not other people can't have one). I'm more of a find one right match and settle down kind of guy.

Theres also the fact that everything needs a label. We have so many labels that we need another label to describe all the labels. Before you even say your name, the person wants to know top/bottom bear/cub/twink leather/bdsm etc etc. Fun actendote: I was at a party once and this guy I've never even met comes up to me, points at three people and is like "So, do you think they're tops or bottoms? i think they're bottoms." And I'm like wdf, why does it matter, how should I know and why should I care.

The community also has a bit of a not-really-a-secret racism problem.

I've met a lot of people who live and breathe being gay, yet to me, being gay is a small (but certainly importantly) part of me. I go to gay events in the hope I'll find a partner, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't bother if I was dating someone. Don't get me wrong, I've met a lot of nice people (And lots of cold, unfriendly ones, when I was back at school, but I digress). They just aren't people I have much in common with.

Ultimately, that sense of belonging just isn't there. Its fun to interact with the gay community from time to time. Certainly its fun to post on GAF, you all seem cool, and its nice to talk about gay stuff occasionally. But I have a general apathy towards all of it. I see it almost like something I have to deal with, rather than something I want to deal with.

Ok, you can call me an asshole now.

 

[Vazduh]

A part of it is the community (or rather the experiences I have had with it) and a part of it (perhaps a big part) is me. Ok, looks like its self reflection time!

It frequently feels hyper sexualized, which is fun is small doses, but a bit... shallow in large ones. Theres a big emphasis on sleeping around, partying, and I've met more gays than I can count who are big on open relationships. Big no no for me (As in, I don't want one, not other people can't have one). I'm more of a find one right match and settle down kind of guy.

Theres also the fact that everything needs a label. We have so many labels that we need another label to describe all the labels. Before you even say your name, the person wants to know top/bottom bear/cub/twink leather/bdsm etc etc. Fun actendote: I was at a party once and this guy I've never even met comes up to me, points at three people and is like "So, do you think they're tops or bottoms? i think they're bottoms." And I'm like wdf, why does it matter, how should I know and why should I care.

The community also has a bit of a not-really-a-secret racism problem.

I've met a lot of people who live and breathe being gay, yet to me, being gay is a small (but certainly importantly) part of me. I go to gay events in the hope I'll find a partner, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't bother if I was dating someone. Don't get me wrong, I've met a lot of nice people (And lots of cold, unfriendly ones, when I was back at school, but I digress). They just aren't people I have much in common with.

Ultimately, that sense of belonging just isn't there. Its fun to interact with the gay community from time to time. Certainly its fun to post on GAF, you all seem cool, and its nice to talk about gay stuff occasionally. But I have a general apathy towards all of it. I see it almost like something I have to deal with, rather than something I want to deal with.

Ok, you can call me an asshole now.

(btw, I don't agree 100 % with everything you've said, but for the most part of the post - the first two thirds or so, it was like you've read my mind tbh)

 

[Wil348]

So the PS4 Pro kind of looks like a bust....oh well, now I don't have to go through the trouble of getting rid of my OG PS4, and I can get that XB1 S I wanted. 🙂

 

[Blood Diamonds]

i live and breathe being gay tbh

 

[Crayons]

i live and breathe being gay tbh

same tbh

 

[Aarglefarg]

This is real.

 

[Crayons]

This is real.

no thanks...i only eat gay, organic, BPA-free, gluten free, GMO-free ice creams.

 

[dryuriev7777]

A part of it is the community (or rather the experiences I have had with it) and a part of it (perhaps a big part) is me. Ok, looks like its self reflection time!

It frequently feels hyper sexualized, which is fun is small doses, but a bit... shallow in large ones. Theres a big emphasis on sleeping around, partying, and I've met more gays than I can count who are big on open relationships. Big no no for me (As in, I don't want one, not other people can't have one). I'm more of a find one right match and settle down kind of guy.

Theres also the fact that everything needs a label. We have so many labels that we need another label to describe all the labels. Before you even say your name, the person wants to know top/bottom bear/cub/twink leather/bdsm etc etc. Fun actendote: I was at a party once and this guy I've never even met comes up to me, points at three people and is like "So, do you think they're tops or bottoms? i think they're bottoms." And I'm like wdf, why does it matter, how should I know and why should I care.

The community also has a bit of a not-really-a-secret racism problem.

I've met a lot of people who live and breathe being gay, yet to me, being gay is a small (but certainly importantly) part of me. I go to gay events in the hope I'll find a partner, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't bother if I was dating someone. Don't get me wrong, I've met a lot of nice people (And lots of cold, unfriendly ones, when I was back at school, but I digress). They just aren't people I have much in common with.

Ultimately, that sense of belonging just isn't there. Its fun to interact with the gay community from time to time. Certainly its fun to post on GAF, you all seem cool, and its nice to talk about gay stuff occasionally. But I have a general apathy towards all of it. I see it almost like something I have to deal with, rather than something I want to deal with.

Ok, you can call me an asshole now.

It's been my experience that a lot of the selfishness and shallowness goes away as I've gotten older, with both myself and gay people my age. I can't count the amount of times when I was younger talking to guys and them getting pissed off and not understanding when I said I wasn't going to sleep with them despite just meeting them.

That said, I think it is partly in your head. A lot of what you've said is true, but you also seem to carry some bitterness with that. I'm very much a prude when it comes to sex, but you'd maybe not know that on the outside with how sociable I can get and how much I tease people. You may not agree with or like what some people do, but if you're able to respect who they are and demand that respect from them in return I think you'll weed out the assholes and slowly build a good community of gay people around you. And who knows, maybe eventually you'll find yourself in a serious monogamous relationship with someone you originally had written off.

I mean, you're part of the gaygaf community and as a selfish attention whore I'd be happy to be one of your 100% platonic gay friends.

Also racism needs to get the fuck out regardless of the community.

 

[Tuck]

That said, I think it is partly in your head. A lot of what you've said is true, but you also seem to carry some bitterness with that.

Won't even try denying this.

It's a hundred percent correct.

 

[Wil348]

i live and breathe being gay tbh

m8

m8

m8

 

[JCX]

A part of it is the community (or rather the experiences I have had with it) and a part of it (perhaps a big part) is me. Ok, looks like its self reflection time!

It frequently feels hyper sexualized, which is fun is small doses, but a bit... shallow in large ones. Theres a big emphasis on sleeping around, partying, and I've met more gays than I can count who are big on open relationships. Big no no for me (As in, I don't want one, not other people can't have one). I'm more of a find one right match and settle down kind of guy.

Theres also the fact that everything needs a label. We have so many labels that we need another label to describe all the labels. Before you even say your name, the person wants to know top/bottom bear/cub/twink leather/bdsm etc etc. Fun actendote: I was at a party once and this guy I've never even met comes up to me, points at three people and is like "So, do you think they're tops or bottoms? i think they're bottoms." And I'm like wdf, why does it matter, how should I know and why should I care.

The community also has a bit of a not-really-a-secret racism problem.

I've met a lot of people who live and breathe being gay, yet to me, being gay is a small (but certainly importantly) part of me. I go to gay events in the hope I'll find a partner, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't bother if I was dating someone. Don't get me wrong, I've met a lot of nice people (And lots of cold, unfriendly ones, when I was back at school, but I digress). They just aren't people I have much in common with.

Ultimately, that sense of belonging just isn't there. Its fun to interact with the gay community from time to time. Certainly its fun to post on GAF, you all seem cool, and its nice to talk about gay stuff occasionally. But I have a general apathy towards all of it. I see it almost like something I have to deal with, rather than something I want to deal with.

Ok, you can call me an asshole now.

I agree with a lot of what you said, I have about 4 core issues with the gay community at-large

1) Focus on sex - there are no popular gay DATING apps. We have hookup apps, and gay dating sections on mostly straight sites, and a few unpopular gay-only dating sites that aren't used much. This would not be an issue if it weren't so hard to meet gays in the wild. Unless you live in a major city with a big gay scene, you're pretty much relegated to apps.

2) Not treating people like individuals - this comes in a few forms

A) Top/Bottom - When I came out, I had no idea what I was because I hadn't had sex yet. Even more, having done both, I do not know why a person would stick to just one unless they're particularly selfish, especially in a relationship. I definitely prefer one over the other, but neither is a hard pass.

Even worse, some guys are so strict that if you ever bottomed once, even if you top now, "you're a bottom and I only want tops". It's not something you can tell without me telling you.

B) All the animal/tribes - these labels are basic and embarrassing. I see 50yo men who identify as "jock". We aren't in a teen movie, how the heck does that work?

3) Racism - 2 fun forms!

A) "IT'S JUST A PREFERENCE GUYSSSSSSS" - no, it is textbook racism to judge an individual based upon the racial group they belong to.

B) FUCK ME WITH YOUR BBC! - I am not the mandingo from your favorite porn. I am a person.

4) Coming out is made difficult by the above

Think about how different a straight and gay guy's sexual development are.

Straights grow up, may have a gf in middle/high/college, and get to develop their sexual talents and preferences over time.

Gays (due social stigmas), may not begin romantic pursuits until later in life, and when they do it may start in the closet (no shame to those who are still in it), so you don't get the experience of having a romantic dinner or holding hands while walking down the street.

We're raised on a culture of dating and courtship, but if you just come out into a world dominated by hookup apps, tribe names that require a zoology degree, and unfamiliar relationship types, it's going to be overwhelming.

Even with all the above, I am still part of the community, because I don't want the parts of gay life I hate to be the only kind of life people view as being possible.

 

[Tuck]

A) Top/Bottom - When I came out, I had no idea what I was because I hadn't had sex yet. Even more, having done both, I do not know why a person would stick to just one unless they're particularly selfish, especially in a relationship. I definitely prefer one over the other, but neither is a hard pass.

Without going into too much detail (or any, really), there is a medical reason as to why someone might be 100% top.

*cough*

Agree with everything else you said though.

 

[Elitist1945]

Watches 'The Impossible'. Proceeds to cry uncontrollably.

 

[dryuriev7777]

Think about how different a straight and gay guy's sexual development are.

Straights grow up, may have a gf in middle/high/college, and get to develop their sexual talents and preferences over time.

Gays (due social stigmas), may not begin romantic pursuits until later in life, and when they do it may start in the closet (no shame to those who are still in it), so you don't get the experience of having a romantic dinner or holding hands while walking down the street.

We're raised on a culture of dating and courtship, but if you just come out into a world dominated by hookup apps, tribe names that require a zoology degree, and unfamiliar relationship types, it's going to be overwhelming.

Put on top of that all the regular barriers/red flags to dating once you do get it going. Unreasonable expectations, lack of communication, there can be so many issues with dating in general that it can very easily be a recipe for disaster for a gay person with all the added romantic issues associated with homosexuality.

Even with all the above, I am still part of the community, because I don't want the parts of gay life I hate to be the only kind of life people view as being possible.

I feel the same way. I guess that's why I'm trying to be more in gaygaf; I want more of a positive relationship with the gay community and it helps that there's already gaming as a point of interest to connect everyone.

I do sometimes wonder why my sexuality is so important to me, and if I'd really care so much if/when I do have a good long-term relationship with someone. I also wonder what life would look like without that overwhelming desire for a partner.

 

[mantidor]

Always fun when the guy invites you to his hotel room and in the middle of making out drops the fact that he's married.

This after fighting with a friend that has been an asshole as of late, his recent trantum is that he's angry for something that happen when I wasn't even there, I'm this close to end it with him, he's being a complete ass.

But I went out today with my other good friend for pizzas and drinks, we had fun, but I'm still bummed about last night.

/Livejournal

 

[JCX]

Without going into too much detail (or any, really), there is a medical reason as to why someone might be 100% top.

*cough*

Agree with everything else you said though.

I don't mean to pry, but I've never heard of that before (typically it's in the context of being masc). Could you direct me to articles/info about the condition? PM is cool if it's too private. Not meant as a challenge, genuinely want to expand my perspective so I'm less ignorant.

 

[Vazra]

Always fun when the guy invites you to his hotel room and in the middle of making out drops the fact that he's married.

This after fighting with a friend that has been an asshole as of late, his recent trantum is that he's angry for something that happen when I wasn't even there, I'm this close to end it with him, he's being a complete ass.

But I went out today with my other good friend for pizzas and drinks, we had fun, but I'm still bummed about last night.

/Livejournal

Yikes sucks that happened but you didnt do anything wrong. He did.

As for the friend part I hope there is a good conversation that gets things clear and if you need closure to end the friendship go for it.

 

[Fantastical]

Fag does not need reclaiming. Hearing anyone say that is downright cringe-worthy to me.

 

[Tuck]

I don't mean to pry, but I've never heard of that before (typically it's in the context of being masc). Could you direct me to articles/info about the condition? PM is cool if it's too private. Not meant as a challenge, genuinely want to expand my perspective so I'm less ignorant.

Life is cruel.

Pain is inescapable.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

The only time fag is acceptable is if you're referring to cigarettes and are also British

 

[RatskyWatsky]

"Fag" isn't even used in a positive way by gays. It's used to berate feminine gay men... Which is the same way it's used by straight people to berate feminine men. Nothing's being reclaimed, it's being used in the exact same way.

ive seen effeminate gays refer to themselves as 'fags' in a positive way so there definitely is a movement* to try and reclaim it

*not sure how widespread it is though

 

[Nero397]

I despise the word "fag." I don't want to associate with anybody who uses it regardless of whether they're gay or not.

actually that might be exaggerating a bit but I would definitely look at that person differently.

 

[dryuriev7777]

I think the best way to wrap everything up is that regardless of whether you're straight or gay or black or whatever, everyone and everything is terrible and awful and we should all be ashamed.

Speaking of shame, is it bad I forgot Sony was a thing? What with this Neo Pro Scorpio thing. Was it good or bad or what? More importantly, when is Nintendo making more amiibos?

On yet another note of shame, this blackberry wine is marginally better than that raspberry wine I had the other night. They're both fucking garbage, but I paid for this garbage so I'm going to use it. World Market is supposedly having a red wine sale this weekend though so I guess I'll pick up some Kendall Jackson Cab Sauv on sale to make it up to myself.

 

[Kevyt]

A part of it is the community (or rather the experiences I have had with it) and a part of it (perhaps a big part) is me. Ok, looks like its self reflection time!

It frequently feels hyper sexualized, which is fun is small doses, but a bit... shallow in large ones. Theres a big emphasis on sleeping around, partying, and I've met more gays than I can count who are big on open relationships. Big no no for me (As in, I don't want one, not other people can't have one). I'm more of a find one right match and settle down kind of guy.

Theres also the fact that everything needs a label. We have so many labels that we need another label to describe all the labels. Before you even say your name, the person wants to know top/bottom bear/cub/twink leather/bdsm etc etc. Fun actendote: I was at a party once and this guy I've never even met comes up to me, points at three people and is like "So, do you think they're tops or bottoms? i think they're bottoms." And I'm like wdf, why does it matter, how should I know and why should I care.

The community also has a bit of a not-really-a-secret racism problem.

I've met a lot of people who live and breathe being gay, yet to me, being gay is a small (but certainly importantly) part of me. I go to gay events in the hope I'll find a partner, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't bother if I was dating someone. Don't get me wrong, I've met a lot of nice people (And lots of cold, unfriendly ones, when I was back at school, but I digress). They just aren't people I have much in common with.

Ultimately, that sense of belonging just isn't there. Its fun to interact with the gay community from time to time. Certainly its fun to post on GAF, you all seem cool, and its nice to talk about gay stuff occasionally. But I have a general apathy towards all of it. I see it almost like something I have to deal with, rather than something I want to deal with.

Ok, you can call me an asshole now.

I felt the same way until I started working on a project that involved working with LGBT people around my area. I have met so many LGBT people of all colors and shapes who are leaders in their respective communities, and work places that it amazes me. I certainly feel that the hyper sexualized and grinder culture is most prevalent among a certain group of individuals (and I'm not saying that's a bad thing) but it doesn't represent the whole group.

Additionally, I am so glad I have met so many gay people of color that it makes me feel like I belong because I see others like me. There are many places and spaces where gay people of color are present so it doesn't feel like such venues are dominated by gay white men. I had an issue with gay culture at large because I felt like it pandered to white gay men and that they were the ones who set the tone for the community overall. However, that's not how it is at all. I am so happy to work and collaborate with many LGBT individuals who aren't just white. Individuals that are trying to make changes in policies, public health and issues pertaining to LGBT individuals.

They also don't make a big deal about their sexual orientation because they are very complex individuals - which kinda makes me realize that to a certain degree, what you just said (which I used to believe as well) is not really true. Yes, it's a big part of who we are, but it's not everything about us.

What can I say.... I live in a very diverse place where there are many LGBT individuals of many colors, shapes, and walks of life. It is very refreshing and has changed my whole view about many things.

I can empathize with what you said above because I used to think/feel the same, but not anymore.

 

[Vazra]

I think the best way to wrap everything up is that regardless of whether you're straight or gay or black or whatever, everyone and everything is terrible and awful and we should all be ashamed.

Speaking of shame, is it bad I forgot Sony was a thing? What with this Neo Pro Scorpio thing. Was it good or bad or what? More importantly, when is Nintendo making more amiibos?

On yet another note of shame, this blackberry wine is marginally better than that raspberry wine I had the other night. They're both fucking garbage, but I paid for this garbage so I'm going to use it. World Market is supposedly having a red wine sale this weekend though so I guess I'll pick up some Kendall Jackson Cab Sauv on sale to make it up to myself.

The PS4 Pro/Neo wasn't impressive. Also no 4K bluray playback and being stream only kinda sucks and HDR wasnt that big of a thing to make me jump on Pro. From what I saw the performance on games still had framerate drops and it's not the miracle machine people were expecting which I called among other people. The price is not too bad and its not the $599 mess but still its not that impressive of an upgrade. Also if you dont have a 4K TV I dont think you will see great value for it since IMO if you already have a PS4 the system will have the same games anyway and performance doesnt seem to be that much improved.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

(not to change the subject but)

is angry orchard cider any good

 

[Kevyt]

Can someone help me identify what kind of jacket and pants these are?

Slightly NSFW btw...


I like that style tbh... I want a jacket like that, especially with fall coming up.

Edit: nvm I found it, disappointed... lol

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

(not to change the subject but)

is angry orchard cider any good

I think I had that at Fest last year

It was pretty decent from what I remember

 

[dryuriev7777]

(not to change the subject but)

is angry orchard cider any good

Depends. It's pretty good if you like drinks a little on the sweeter side. True to my name, I enjoy drinks a bit more dry so with hard cider I like mine a bit more bitter.

Can someone help me identify what kind of jacket and pants these are?

Slightly NSFW btw...


I like that style tbh... I want a jacket like that, especially with fall coming up.

See I can't not look at those pants and all I think is "either that's enhanced or they're the least comfortable pants ever"

I mean they look like regular khaki coloured jeans to me. When I worked at Macy's long ago we had stuff just like that. Go look for some thin Levi's or looks small enough to be in Hollister. Also I feel awful because I definitely recognize the tag on the left sleeve of his jacket but I can't remember for the life of me what it is and it's going to haunt me. All those years at Macy's for nothing. NOTHING!

 

[Dead Prince]

Can someone help me identify what kind of jacket and pants these are?

Slightly NSFW btw...


I like that style tbh... I want a jacket like that, especially with fall coming up.

Edit: nvm I found it, disappointed... lol

Of course you looking for the jacket. Go jacket off him