Add me to the list of people who would second prints of highly desirable titles. As others have said, until Monster Boy I had managed to get all titles I wanted just by being present when they went on sale, but the new checkout system truly makes this more of a lottery than it needs to be, and it sucks to miss out due to issues like connection quality or how quickly you can type your password. In any case, a second print that can be pre-ordered and is clearly labeled as such would be great for those of us who actually play the games and prefer physical versions when possible. (I'd also love one more chance to own Oddworld New and Tasty as a physical copy since I didn't even know about LRG when that one went on sale. )
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Limited Run Games |OT2| Sweet XOXO for Digital to Physical Media
- Thread starter GodzillaDB
- Start date
LimitedRunGames
Member
Our goals are,
To preserve games
To make developers money
To own these games on our shelves
We are both fans of collector's editions so this just seemed like the next logical step forward.
As far as the poll, it was just to gauge interest, probably going to stick to the split stock of half CE, half normal.
To preserve games
To make developers money
To own these games on our shelves
We are both fans of collector's editions so this just seemed like the next logical step forward.
As far as the poll, it was just to gauge interest, probably going to stick to the split stock of half CE, half normal.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Nothing about printing games in a very limited fashion to create very collectible items?
Far be it for me to correct you on your goals, but I'm just saying you're going to constantly get people haranguing you guys about how you can reconcile preservation when so few people can have the games on their shelves, that want the games.
Lumination
'enry 'ollins
Whatever ya'll decide to do, I better be able to snag a physical copy of Fata Morgana next year!
edit: ^ my impression of LRG has always been that they're still basically working out of their proverbial garage, so they would MUCH rather low ball every game rather than overstock even a single one. You can probably consider that the profits gained per sale is probably way less than the loss of a single unsold copy.
edit: ^ my impression of LRG has always been that they're still basically working out of their proverbial garage, so they would MUCH rather low ball every game rather than overstock even a single one. You can probably consider that the profits gained per sale is probably way less than the loss of a single unsold copy.
Well, there you go. I still agree with your assertion, but just don't put so much stock in a name, be it intentionally chosen or not, because in the end it's just a name, not a list of goals and ambitions.
Edit: Actually, I don't agree with the extremely limited part. I'm sure LRG would want everyone who wants a copy to have a copy without risk, even if it ends up like 10 million or something, lol
Personally as a big fan of LEs, I get them anyways, but this really is nothing new. Several GUST games through NISA, have made physical-only Vita games (of Plus games) sold as LE-only.
I wouldn't call it "gross" as a large portion of people buying that sort of thing, would most likely go after the LE, anyways.
Fair point, but I would say for NISA's sake that they keep those CE at a reasonable price. Don't think I recall a CE with a physical exclusive being more than $20 above digital.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Well if that's 100% true then I think the Marty Chinn poster's suggestion would have to be 100% correct then. Because a preorder would achieve the goal of basically everyone who wants a copy would be able to get a copy. However, that would go against the goal of possibly selling as many copies as possible due to the risk of losing the scalpers, impulse purchasers, and collectors of very limited things. Looking at the competitors who have done this, like iam8bit, the games that get preorders or aren't limited to a point where people can only get them within the first couple minutes or hours, typically aren't as desired despite the game being high quality.
And also I'm aware of that one of the reasons for preorders not happening is because of possible delays, but I'm in agreement with other people that those problems that have popped up with past preorders could be fixed. For instance with things like Skullgirls, opening up sales only after everything content wise was ready, would have prevented the delay.
Of course, I never meant to imply that LRG were betraying their goals or anything (I admit antithetical may have been too strong a word in this case).
Hope y'all didn't take offense to my statement or think I was implying you guys were betraying your original mission. I apologize if my wording suggested that. I recognize that this is a bit of a balancing act for you, and that your desire to do CEs comes from a place of enthusiasm for the games/IP.
LimitedRunGames
Member
We are limited by the nature of our business model and our name.
Of course, we want everyone to have a copy of the game if there is no risk and we can print enough to make this worth it to the devs.
Pre-order only is where we would not be able to hit the minimum order quantity, but by also having a limited version maybe we could, so maybe this hybrid will work if we go this route.
I hope this new way caters to everyone on bigger releases.
If not then it goes back to the way it was until people get mad again and we try something else!
Of course, we want everyone to have a copy of the game if there is no risk and we can print enough to make this worth it to the devs.
Pre-order only is where we would not be able to hit the minimum order quantity, but by also having a limited version maybe we could, so maybe this hybrid will work if we go this route.
I hope this new way caters to everyone on bigger releases.
If not then it goes back to the way it was until people get mad again and we try something else!
LimitedRunGames
Member
I think you'd be surprised how many people actually print 5,000-10,000 and still have stock that sells on Amazon.
This is a really difficult balancing act.
Yeah didn't intend that post as a response to yours, as it wasn't there when I started to reply. Just a general response to some of the stuff on the last couple pages. A run can be considerably larger than what you typically do but still be quite limited.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
I think it's more the perception that a game is very limited that affects the sales. If people feel like 10k will be too many and too easily obtained by everyone, a lot of people (scalpers and the like will drop out and not buy).
For instance, look at the Fangamer Shovel Knight limited vita release. Although they only printed 5030 copies, they didn't reveal that initially and allowed 4 copies per person, giving off the impression that it wasn't really that limited. Despite all of us LRG purchasers being all crazy about Vita, a limited vita release of a super critically praised game took AGES to sell out.
Don't discount that some places like Fangamer aren't on people's radar. I'm a Vita fan and love the LRG games, etc.. but I honestly don't know if I bought that Shovel Knight release or not.
LRG's following is for real. I think that momentum is important, vs a company that usually makes shirts and stuff kicking out the occasional game.
Yup. After hearing how small some game prints were, it was crazy with how easy they still were to find new. Half-Minute Hero at under 5k took quite a while to sell through. Some LEs as well with fairly small prints (but not big demand) were also fairly easy to find for a while, too.
This was exactly why I highlighted that Game Sack quote. Even with Gaijinworks games, they were print on demand, BUT in their case still wanted to make a minimum. Without the "collectibility" and urgency, it was a little tough to make those goals sometimes! If VideoGamesPlus didn't chip in, some titles might not have made it.
The actual number of people that want certain games (and not treating them like currency...), can actually be a lot smaller than people think. This is why it can be a very delicate balancing act. JUST over 5k fir Shovel Knight Vita is fairly small, considering. But IF they sold it as "only 8000 made!!" you better believe that they will fly out the door in 2 mins!
We are limited by the nature of our business model and our name.
Of course, we want everyone to have a copy of the game if there is no risk and we can print enough to make this worth it to the devs.
Pre-order only is where we would not be able to hit the minimum order quantity, but by also having a limited version maybe we could, so maybe this hybrid will work if we go this route.
I hope this new way caters to everyone on bigger releases.
If not then it goes back to the way it was until people get mad again and we try something else!
Honestly, I think you nailed it with this.
It seems like a happy compromise that I'll gladly support.
KingdomHeartsFan
Member
So will the 24 hour pre-order window come first or will they sell the limited release first then do the pre-order window after? I'd rather it was the latter because I'd rather try for the limited variant then if I can't get it pre-order the other variant.
They haven't fully explained it yet, or are even 100% sure of it yet, but they'll have it decided by this Friday. They were spit-balling the idea in that video and threw out an idea that in addition to the normal LRG releases, there would be another variant of Ys Origin that will be up for 24 hours for people to order as many as they want.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
I believe the rumor is that the regular and LE will still be limited like normal and then a variant cover of the regular version will be put up for preorder which will be manufactured at a later date.
Oh, I see. That's an interesting compromise, I don't think I'd see an issue with that.
I think the best way would be to sell the copies you have live, and then take preorders for another hour (for example) and ship those copies once they are made (~6-8 weeks later). Each run would still be very limited, and there would be no risk of overstocking.
You'd make all of us very happy, good karma, much love, etc.
Exist2Inspire02
Member
As a Canadian, it totally depends on the game, and even then it's a bit of a hard sell (unless it's Fata Morgana). $49.99 + $15.00 shipping ends up being $64.99, which is $82.xx CAD. Bleh.
brianmcdoogle
Member
Does someone have a link to the google calendar? Also, is it still being updated?
I don't even think they need to worry about alternate covers.
People who jump in early get the games that were already printed.
Those who fall under the "pre-order phase" get it in, what, 6-8 weeks.
Winner, winner. There's both an incentive to be fast and protections for LRG against printing too many copies and being stuck.
People who jump in early get the games that were already printed.
Those who fall under the "pre-order phase" get it in, what, 6-8 weeks.
Winner, winner. There's both an incentive to be fast and protections for LRG against printing too many copies and being stuck.
GodzillaDB
Member
Hopefully this direct link will work for you. If it doesn't, it should be accessible from LRG's Twitter message and, yes, it has been frequently updated for the time being. Nothing new has been announced beyond Ys Origin for next week.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
I think alternate covers are better because you'll also get some people who got the regular one who will preorder for a second copy to have all the covers.
Also this will still incentivize resellers to buy the first limited release because people who missed it won't be able to get it during the second unlimited release.
Pellegri Testament
Member
Alternate covers also gives collectors another thing to go after though, which helps LRG out in the end as it gives them more sales from the die hards. For those that actually care to play the game they're buying though, a limited preorder window gives them an actual chance to own a copy of the game and not have to risk being there within the first minute.
Whats with all this talk of reprints of older titles... They have stated hundreds of times that they will never release a reprint of a game.
From their support page :
"Limited Run Games will never do re-prints. Our contracts are void once we sell out of a run and the developer is free to do their own reprint whenever the want with a new cover."
I understand wanting to make sure Ys is in as many hands as possible, but lets not retroactively go back and second guess every release.
From their support page :
"Limited Run Games will never do re-prints. Our contracts are void once we sell out of a run and the developer is free to do their own reprint whenever the want with a new cover."
I understand wanting to make sure Ys is in as many hands as possible, but lets not retroactively go back and second guess every release.
salaciousdrift
Member
They also stated that pre-orders wouldn't be tried again after Skullgirls. I'm sure any reprints would require reaching back out to the respective rights holder to negotiate a new run but in some cases that certainly doesn't seem out of the question.
Why have a pre order window with ANOTHER variant. Honestly why not for example with Ys do a 4000 copy run but leave a 24h pre order window for more of the same copies. That way honest collectors can be assured a copy and everyone wins because it's the same. Another variant will only lead to more confusion and hardcore collectors and scalpers buying more of each variant.
If that pre order limit was manufactured and shipped later I'd use it anyway regardless of numbers and covers. I just don't want to miss out on more games.
If that pre order limit was manufactured and shipped later I'd use it anyway regardless of numbers and covers. I just don't want to miss out on more games.
Pellegri Testament
Member
The bolded is kind of the point. Guaranteeing at least a minimum amount of sales from the hardcore makes it so that doing another print for preorders isn't costing them money.
I see your point.
I guess the only way to do a true test is have a game be pre order only months in advance. Then they manufacture the games and add a few more to round up the total print run. Say 3670 people pre order and pay for Phantom Breaker then they make a total of 4000 to sell at trade shows and put online and in bundles etc. That would be rad. Still makes the games Limited! Sorry if that's been mentioned in this thread there's a lot to catch up on.
These aren't remotely the same thing. Previous sales were predicated on the promise of no reprints. It was and is an important distinction and component of their success.
Saying you don't want to do preorders isn't the same as saying you will never do reprints. I'm all for their discussed plans and have always been in favor of preorders. I am not in favor of them losing their limited nature.
I don't envy them trying to please everyone, but hope they don't throw away everything to please the overly vocal social media. Historically they're rather fickle and not always loyal once they are appeased. What I mean by that, is that I'm sure they'll line up for the high profile releases, of which we've had a few in a row now, but will they be there for the lesser titles? I guess we'll see.
I'm for this too. No need to make them different, they should still meet the quality of being limited and from the same run if offered at the same sale. One just ships sooner.
Not LRG, but V-blank is selling a limited physical print of Guacamelee (PS4). Limited to 3,800 copies and includes a Steam code. https://vblank-entertainment.myshopify.com/
salaciousdrift
Member
I've successfully purchased from LRG 12 times and would do so more often if it wasn't a colossal pain. I have certainly been one of the more vocal critics since the Night Trap flare up. I applaud Limited Run wading into social media and begin addressing what a boondoggle the last two releases were and to share that they are actively working on a plan to take the pain out of buying some of their titles. So, at least for me, the idea that criticism of LRG's handling of Wonderboy and Night Trap is coming from people with no existing skin in the game doesn't tread water. Also I am not sure that I can accept the idea that a majority of the purchasers of previous titles are long-term speculators who would be tilted if there was a reprint with a different cover. A different cover preserves the value of the original because they can be distinguished from one another and so would not impact the scarcity of the original run. Heck, Limited Run even played with the idea of another name or imprint for games that were more "ehhh". The community wasn't really into idea and it ultimately died on the vine. Where I can see it being more successful and helpful is an imprint specifically for reprinting some of these titles with a different cover. If they used a different brand imprint to do open pre-order reprints than the LRG name wouldn't even appear on the packaging.
Nachtfalke
Member
Whaaa? I wonder if this means they'll do their other games.
Wish there were Vita versions.
Ashler
Member
Thanks for the heads up, just got one.
Kresnik258
Member
Co-founder in the comments confirmed no Vita version for now. Wonder why:
https://twitter.com/Graham_DrinkBox/status/898220212448894977
Olengie
Member
There are no plans at the moment. But they might since they didn't say no