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Linux Distro Noob thread of Linux noobs
- Thread starter Flying_Phoenix
- Start date
Vanillalite
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Norwegian Wood said:
Cool that you got it to work, but weird that it didn't work the 1st way.
Ubuntu 11.04 hits Beta 2 today. It's slowly rolling out though so beware, and make sure your actually getting Beta 2 and not Beta 1.
Primethius
Banned
So I updated to Ubuntu 11.04 Beta 1 on my netbook. And I completely hate the unity interface. I need a different distro that's like Ubuntu 10.10 and would run at decent speeds (Unity's slow on my netbook).
I don't recommend anyone to install gnome 3 in Ubuntu(10.10), right after rebooting my monitor had a low graphics issue. I tried replacing my xorg.conf file with the backup file, and the update file neither of which worked. Now I have to ctrl+alt+f1 into the console and manually startx everytime I boot up.
Vanillalite
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I'm gonna be the contrarian here...
I was a Unity hater at worse and a disbeliever at best when Unity was 1st unveiled. I then tried one of the Alphas, and shit kept crashing so I stopped using the live cd, and could never get a good feel of the changes because of it.
With the beta 1 though, and the subsequent big update a few days ago I've become a fan. Infinitely more so than Gnome 3. Gnome 3 only had certain shit in the launcher where as everything is in the Unity Launcher or becomes part of it as you open it up. Where as in Gnome some programs just became lost when I tried to minimize them where as others were easily found I always had my programs in Unity.
Plus the task bar itself operates under existing conventional wisdom I already know. It effectively operates almost the same as the Window 7 task bar just on it's side not counting the system stuff on the bottom right in Windows. Some shit is pre pinned, and you can just right click and unpin it. When you open a program it's added to the taskbar, and you can right click and boom add it. Works the same in both Win 7 and Ubuntu 11.04. When you minimize it goes to the taskbar, and you click it to open it again. Then programs that have the hooks for the OS have "jump lists" where you can right click and go to a certain part of the program. Works the same way in both OSes. Only main difference is the Win 7 taskbar is set always be visible and it's locked in place. The Unity taskbar just hides when you open a program to give you screen space. Both taskbars can have their preferences changed though.
Click on applications is almost like clicking on the start menu. It shows you most used apps, and like in the start menu you can click to show everything. Only other big difference here is an extra click to get the search box up where as it's just there when you click on the start menu in windows. Then again it's only 1 in Ubuntu as well if a program is open you just have to mouse over to get the launcher to come back. Also it's one click to see your home folders where as in Win some not all but some of the user folders are pinned. In general it's effectively the same though.
Plus hitting the windows/command/super key automatically shortcuts everything in the launcher. Windows switcher is still there to easily switch work spaces.Also under files it shows you more most recent stuff than Win 7 IMO as well as a search. You also have the whole transparency thing going on in Unity which feels very Aero like.
The main difference between the two being the fact that Unity still has the top gnome like panel along with the taskbar launchere where as Win 7 combines it all into 1. Plus Unity has that global menu thing going on again as long as a program is coded for it. This is all rolled into the top panel having a solid color to where as top bars in Win 7 follow the aero transparency effect found in the taskbar.
I'll fully admit this though. Gnome 3 FEELS very OSX like and while I like OSX I personally easily prefer Windows 7 now as I feel it's the best MS Windows product to date by FAR. Slide the unity panel on down to the bottom, and it would be EXTREMELY similar to Win 7 IMO just with the extra system bar at the top instead of a combined bar.
The only main issue I currently have is certain features are sort of well you just have to find out on your own such as a recent post by itxaka about opening multiple versions of the same program with the middle mouse. I don't see how anyone is suppose to just KNOW how to do this. They need more in your face documentation or maybe an option to go through a quick tutorial upon 1st upgrade or install to explain how everythings work now. That's a different issue than the interface itself though IMO.
PS: I fully expect from comments around the web that I'm in the minority. This is just how I feel after having used both the latest version of OSX as well currently dual booting Win 7 and Ubuntu, upgrading to 11.04 beta 1 from 10.10, and trying out the live cd version of Fedora from the Gnome 3 website when it all went live last week.
I was a Unity hater at worse and a disbeliever at best when Unity was 1st unveiled. I then tried one of the Alphas, and shit kept crashing so I stopped using the live cd, and could never get a good feel of the changes because of it.
With the beta 1 though, and the subsequent big update a few days ago I've become a fan. Infinitely more so than Gnome 3. Gnome 3 only had certain shit in the launcher where as everything is in the Unity Launcher or becomes part of it as you open it up. Where as in Gnome some programs just became lost when I tried to minimize them where as others were easily found I always had my programs in Unity.
Plus the task bar itself operates under existing conventional wisdom I already know. It effectively operates almost the same as the Window 7 task bar just on it's side not counting the system stuff on the bottom right in Windows. Some shit is pre pinned, and you can just right click and unpin it. When you open a program it's added to the taskbar, and you can right click and boom add it. Works the same in both Win 7 and Ubuntu 11.04. When you minimize it goes to the taskbar, and you click it to open it again. Then programs that have the hooks for the OS have "jump lists" where you can right click and go to a certain part of the program. Works the same way in both OSes. Only main difference is the Win 7 taskbar is set always be visible and it's locked in place. The Unity taskbar just hides when you open a program to give you screen space. Both taskbars can have their preferences changed though.
Click on applications is almost like clicking on the start menu. It shows you most used apps, and like in the start menu you can click to show everything. Only other big difference here is an extra click to get the search box up where as it's just there when you click on the start menu in windows. Then again it's only 1 in Ubuntu as well if a program is open you just have to mouse over to get the launcher to come back. Also it's one click to see your home folders where as in Win some not all but some of the user folders are pinned. In general it's effectively the same though.
Plus hitting the windows/command/super key automatically shortcuts everything in the launcher. Windows switcher is still there to easily switch work spaces.Also under files it shows you more most recent stuff than Win 7 IMO as well as a search. You also have the whole transparency thing going on in Unity which feels very Aero like.
The main difference between the two being the fact that Unity still has the top gnome like panel along with the taskbar launchere where as Win 7 combines it all into 1. Plus Unity has that global menu thing going on again as long as a program is coded for it. This is all rolled into the top panel having a solid color to where as top bars in Win 7 follow the aero transparency effect found in the taskbar.
I'll fully admit this though. Gnome 3 FEELS very OSX like and while I like OSX I personally easily prefer Windows 7 now as I feel it's the best MS Windows product to date by FAR. Slide the unity panel on down to the bottom, and it would be EXTREMELY similar to Win 7 IMO just with the extra system bar at the top instead of a combined bar.
The only main issue I currently have is certain features are sort of well you just have to find out on your own such as a recent post by itxaka about opening multiple versions of the same program with the middle mouse. I don't see how anyone is suppose to just KNOW how to do this. They need more in your face documentation or maybe an option to go through a quick tutorial upon 1st upgrade or install to explain how everythings work now. That's a different issue than the interface itself though IMO.
PS: I fully expect from comments around the web that I'm in the minority. This is just how I feel after having used both the latest version of OSX as well currently dual booting Win 7 and Ubuntu, upgrading to 11.04 beta 1 from 10.10, and trying out the live cd version of Fedora from the Gnome 3 website when it all went live last week.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Hrm you make a good case for Unity. I'll give a live CD a shot later and see how it goes. I really would prefer not to switch away from Ubuntu proper if at all possible.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2449351
I thought this was interesting, hardcore UX research into Unity. Good to see they're focused on improving it.
I'm downloading 11.04b2 right now, will give it a spin in a little bit to see if my fears are founded. I will say though that no matter what, I will always hate the global menu.
I thought this was interesting, hardcore UX research into Unity. Good to see they're focused on improving it.
I'm downloading 11.04b2 right now, will give it a spin in a little bit to see if my fears are founded. I will say though that no matter what, I will always hate the global menu.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Using it now and I do think I prefer GNOME 3. I dunno, I like how minimal everything looks in Unity, especially when maximized, but I don't like the finer details of it... the
> ACTIVE <
> RUNNING
Just looks bad. The embossed rounded square buttons... ich. And the Ubuntu start button or whatever, that menu is just bad, and seems very inconsistent with the rest of the UI..
Plus the workspace support is just worse, there's really no other way to say it.
> ACTIVE <
> RUNNING
Just looks bad. The embossed rounded square buttons... ich. And the Ubuntu start button or whatever, that menu is just bad, and seems very inconsistent with the rest of the UI..
Plus the workspace support is just worse, there's really no other way to say it.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Plus even if I did like the global menu, having it hidden by default (wtf?) making you mouse over it is... just... bad....
Vanillalite
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Andrex said:
How is it worse? Command S brings up all 4 work spaces in an instant.
Andrex said:
Global menu is weird I'll fully admit. I don't like the menu system in either Gnome 3 or Ubuntu so far.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
It's worse because as far as I could tell it was locked into only having four of them. I liked that Gnome 3 is completely elastic.
Gnome 3 is just...strange to use. Unity hits closer to a normal desktop than gnome3 so it's easier to adapt. g3 is like a totally different method of managing your desktop and apps.
Still liking both of them. Which makes it wierd because changing from one to the other when using different pcs its a pain in the ass. I keep throwing my mouse at the corner while on unity and keep pressing windows + number on gnome.
I need to choose one over the other or I am gonna get crazy.There can only be one!
Still liking both of them. Which makes it wierd because changing from one to the other when using different pcs its a pain in the ass. I keep throwing my mouse at the corner while on unity and keep pressing windows + number on gnome.
I need to choose one over the other or I am gonna get crazy.There can only be one!
Vanillalite
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panda21 said:
Funny not having those in Gnome 3 annoyed me. LOL
This goes back to a tenant of Gnome 3 being very OSXy to me though as a lot of Mac people don't max and just use expose where as I never do that type of thing in Win 7. Unless it's just a small program like gtalk or vent or zune in compact mode I'm maxed out (though sometimes I'll do the side by side, but that'll still max the screen out). I've always felt it odd to had such a big screen and not use the real estate in the workspace your in, but feel like you need another workspace.
Andrex said:
Ah that makes sense. I guess I just didn't really notice as I don't use THAT many workspaces. Ubuntu's always had 4 so there was no change here. I can see how that's a boon to gnome 3 for sure.
I still think my biggest problem with Gnome 3 I just felt like I lost my programs sometimes when I was trying to open new shit. Maybe I was just missing it, but as I said in my Gnome 3 thread I swear some open windows didn't end up on the launcher. I might have to go back and run the live cd again to really compare.
itxaka said:
I think this is the truth, and one might not be "better" than the other. Going off your thought though I think the reason I gravitated towards Unity is it FEELS like Win 7 which is what I dual boot with. So to switch between the two feels like a much more seamless transition.
unity is starting to really annoy me now, its fine in principal, but there are too many little things that make it frustrating to use
as far as i can tell theres no expose type thing, and the window list is gone, so the only way to quickly switch windows is to alt-tab, which seems to have lost the display of all the programs/windows that are open (theres no visual feedback, it just switches instantly). so if you have a window maximised, the only way to switch windows or even see what you have open is to open the dock thing, and even then all you get is a little indicator next to the open programs, not a list or display of all your windows
i guess maybe gnome 3 will suffer from the same problem, but from what i remember it had an expose type thing?
oh and it has gnome do style searching to launch stuff, but no indication of what you are about to launch if you press enter. if i type terminal, 'terminal' and 'terminal server client' show up, when i press enter it launches terminal, i guess cos thats the first in the list, but it doesnt indicate that is what it will do in any way other than it appearing 'first' (ie top left) in the grid as far as i can see.
how a professional UI team thought any of this was ok is baffling
ubuntu was useful as an easy low maintenance distro that still has the functionality of debian to use on my desktop at home, but theres no way i'm sticking with unity. branching out and making their own WM and doing a slightly shitty job of it seems like suicide in terms of the linux community, i can't imagine unity will survive.
as far as i can tell theres no expose type thing, and the window list is gone, so the only way to quickly switch windows is to alt-tab, which seems to have lost the display of all the programs/windows that are open (theres no visual feedback, it just switches instantly). so if you have a window maximised, the only way to switch windows or even see what you have open is to open the dock thing, and even then all you get is a little indicator next to the open programs, not a list or display of all your windows
i guess maybe gnome 3 will suffer from the same problem, but from what i remember it had an expose type thing?
oh and it has gnome do style searching to launch stuff, but no indication of what you are about to launch if you press enter. if i type terminal, 'terminal' and 'terminal server client' show up, when i press enter it launches terminal, i guess cos thats the first in the list, but it doesnt indicate that is what it will do in any way other than it appearing 'first' (ie top left) in the grid as far as i can see.
how a professional UI team thought any of this was ok is baffling
ubuntu was useful as an easy low maintenance distro that still has the functionality of debian to use on my desktop at home, but theres no way i'm sticking with unity. branching out and making their own WM and doing a slightly shitty job of it seems like suicide in terms of the linux community, i can't imagine unity will survive.
Vanillalite
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panda21 said:
Hasn't it always been like that for all distros or is it just a habit of mine that I always hold down alt anyways so I didn't notice the difference? LOL
Having the 1st thing in the list load when you search is perfectly logical and fine. It's like that in any search unless I'm crazy. Hit enter and it always goes with what's ever at the top or the front of the list. WTF would you expect it to do? Go to one in the middle? I seriously don't understand this complaint. I guess it could highlight the top left program to indicate that's what it's gonna launch.
In that way IMO it's much more of a documentation thing for me that I dislike in 11.04. Since it's new you aren't told what stuff is gonna do. It all works out fine IMO, but you don't know to do certain things like say middle click to open multiple instances of a program. Works out fine in actuality, but you're never told to do shit that way. I actually sort of have this complaint about all window managers though, but lobby it against Unity and Gnome since they are new clear breaking off points to new ideas. So you know now would be a good time to explain shit. Going hunting for explanations else where doesn't cut it either IMO.
I'm doing my own digging around but in the meantime, any recommendations for a (non-Ubuntu) distro that comes with xfce4.8? It's going to be the base sytem for my new laptop. I'm looking for a change of pace after a long stretch of Ubuntu installs. I might add Gnome3 down the track.
[edit] Package search at distrowatch is my friend: http://distrowatch.com/search.php?pkg=xfce&pkgver=4.8#pkgsearch
Any comments welcome.
[edit] Package search at distrowatch is my friend: http://distrowatch.com/search.php?pkg=xfce&pkgver=4.8#pkgsearch
Any comments welcome.
Vanillalite
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How soon will you be getting your new laptop? IMO We are gonna see a lot of solid distro releases over the next month or two so you might want to wait. A lot of the bigger distros actually have XFCE spins, but they just aren't running 4.8 yet.
I know you said something non Ubuntu based, but I think that Xubuntu is the 1st big release coming that's gonna have 4.8 preinstalled. Most everything else is running either 4.6 or running 4.8, but it's alpha/beta versions.
PS: There are a bunch of good XFCE distros I'd recommend, but they just are running 4.6.X
I know you said something non Ubuntu based, but I think that Xubuntu is the 1st big release coming that's gonna have 4.8 preinstalled. Most everything else is running either 4.6 or running 4.8, but it's alpha/beta versions.
PS: There are a bunch of good XFCE distros I'd recommend, but they just are running 4.6.X
Sew said:
Arch is one of the best ones out there. The community is pretty involved, not at the ubuntu level, but there is a lot of people using arch. Its a rolling release thougth so sometimes it can be a little unstable.
Also, it so configurable that I doubt you are gonna find a faster distro out there. You can configure everything you want to start or stop. Not thousands of dependencies everytime you install one package. Base + Xorg + XFCE + SLiM and you got a desktop system which uses 100Mb of ram.
Unity is slow as shit on my netbook, so I've gone Fedora 15 with GNOME 3 which works fine. I'm kind of pissed off that Ubuntu has gone on this whole Unity lark, because it really was the distribution I had no hesitation in recommending previously. Fedora is pretty good apart from the fact that they make it a lot more difficult to install proprietary drivers and things like Flash. In an ideal world we'd have viable open alternatives, sure, but at the moment the free software alternatives lag behind and all you're really doing is needlessly alienating users. Also, the amount of whitespace in the GNOME 3 theme on a netbook sucks. I get that they made all the UI elements big for touch screens, but most people aren't using a touch screen and don't want jumbo-sized widgets.
Vanillalite
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On a side note despite the fact that I know the topic is gonna spiral out into a lot of negativity (both rightfully and unrightfully so), I plan on creating an Ubuntu 11.04 thread this weekend like I have for both releases last year.
So look for that probably Sunday since I figure I'll make the |OT|, and post it on the 1st day of release week.
PS: If you have anything you want me to include let me know!
So look for that probably Sunday since I figure I'll make the |OT|, and post it on the 1st day of release week.
PS: If you have anything you want me to include let me know!
So what are the odds that they'll release something like a "Gubuntu" that uses Gnome 3 now? Seems pretty likely.
I haven't tried Unity nor Gnome 3 myself, so I don't have any opinion of them yet. But it seems like a lot of people have a strong hate for Unity for some reason, so a Gubuntu could be good for those who still want Gnome.
I haven't tried Unity nor Gnome 3 myself, so I don't have any opinion of them yet. But it seems like a lot of people have a strong hate for Unity for some reason, so a Gubuntu could be good for those who still want Gnome.
Brettison said:
Thanks for the words guys. I've got my new laptop now, more on that here. Just using Win7 on it (it was pre-installed) I've learned something important: At 1920x1080 on a 15.4" screen, the dot pitch is so fine that many UI elements in Win7 are on the verge of being too small and fiddly. This is something I want to avoid on the Linux side. I know that XFCE will be an improvement, as it is a more spacious and uncluttered environment than Win7. But now I'm not sure if it's what I want long term.itxaka said:
I've got a partition to abuse so I might throw the Fedora 15 Alpha on there to play with. All these complaints about Gnome3's whitespace and large UI elements sound like the exact thing my display needs.
That should keep me amused while I wait for some more distro updates to roll out.Vanillalite
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angelfly said:
I've know this, but I mean WTF IS Gnome 3 without you know Gnome Shell? Gnome Shell seems to BE Gnome 3 for many people. Much like Unity for Ubuntu 11.04 for that matter. Plus they've said they are gonna keep their "mint menu" that the distro is known for.
That makes it IMO look like neither Ubuntu nor any of the distros with stock Gnome 3.
Vanillalite
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angelfly said:
Their version of Gnome 2 didn't really look like Gnome 2 either though. I tell ya it's the mint menu!
Vanillalite
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BTW I hadn't booted into Ubuntu 11.04 for a couple of days and just went to update. Woah said it could only do a partial update, and now it's acting like it's doing a distribution upgrade. IDK I'm getting like another 150 megs worth of updates again though. Guess it's the final big change before the final version hits next week???
EDIT: Ugh now Chrome won't stay as my default browser... WTF!!!
EDIT: Ugh now Chrome won't stay as my default browser... WTF!!!
Ubuntu + GNOME = Ubuntu GNOME Remix
Defaults to GNOME if Unity isn't capable of running on your graphics hardware or doesn't have the appropriate drivers available.
benjipwns said:
Defaults to GNOME if Unity isn't capable of running on your graphics hardware or doesn't have the appropriate drivers available.
Vanillalite
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Polari said:
Yeah Unity requires 3d capable hardware + drivers.
PS: I plan on working on my Ubuntu 11.04 thread late tonight. Let me know if any of you people want a shoutout in the thread!
Vanillalite
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benjipwns said:
Do you have 3d drivers installed?
Elfforkusu
Member
Will be trying Unity/GNOME3/whoknowswhatelse on my touchscreen HP tablet/laptop thingy once 11.04 goes final.
"Official Ubuntu 11.04 Thread of Switching to XFCE"
Just that the title should beBrettison said:Yeah Unity requires 3d capable hardware + drivers.
PS: I plan on working on my Ubuntu 11.04 thread late tonight. Let me know if any of you people want a shoutout in the thread!
"Official Ubuntu 11.04 Thread of Switching to XFCE"
Vanillalite
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Polari said:
It's that the Nouveau driver only does 2d right now. 3d is being "worked on" ergo why it won't give him Unity. I'm not that anal about open source though so I always just install the official proprietary drivers.
Elfforkusu said:
Official Ubuntu 11.04 Thread of regressions.
Can't believe they are 4 days left for them to launch and are still adding regressions. Eepc, wifi connected. Suspend to ram and wifi is unable to reconnect. Regression as it was fixed on 8.04.
232 bugs to go. Let's see how it goes this time.
Vanillalite
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Alright well I went and made a topic anyways despite of all the hate in here. Plus I tend to get people who don't post in this thread posting in my bi yearly Ubuntu threads!
Ubuntu 11.04 |OT|
Ubuntu 11.04 |OT|
Crossposted from Brett OT of Ubuntu Natty 11.04:
Just an FYI for our local laptop users:
Mobile Users Beware: Linux Has Major Power Regression
Kernel 2.6.38 has a major regression on conserving energy which can mean a 10% less of time. Ubuntu 11.04 ships with 2.6.38 by default (2.6.38.4 IIRC) so maybe it will be better to wait a bit until a fix is released if you rely a lot on your battery time. Fedora 15 beta also ships with the same kernel. As well as the new Mandriva 2011.
They better ship a patch ASAP. I can't believe we have this basic issue on a mainline kernel. Linus is not gonna be happy that this went without anyone noticing.
Just an FYI for our local laptop users:
Mobile Users Beware: Linux Has Major Power Regression
Kernel 2.6.38 has a major regression on conserving energy which can mean a 10% less of time. Ubuntu 11.04 ships with 2.6.38 by default (2.6.38.4 IIRC) so maybe it will be better to wait a bit until a fix is released if you rely a lot on your battery time. Fedora 15 beta also ships with the same kernel. As well as the new Mandriva 2011.
They better ship a patch ASAP. I can't believe we have this basic issue on a mainline kernel. Linus is not gonna be happy that this went without anyone noticing.