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[StereoVsn]

Well.....that's what many have said. For Linux to more acceptable by more it will have to improve its interface. The options out there right now are predominately KDE and Gnome along with a few others, but none of them really wow anyone.

MacOS is great and easy, but tied to their own hardware so doesn't really help in this discussion.

I think another big issue is fragmentation. Too many distros, each doing their own thing.

At work I just use RedHat an Ubuntu, plus AWS/Oracle Linux, depending on a use case. But we don't need USB drivers, printers, WiFi, and even GUI interface on like 99% of our server workloads.

For regular PCs that's a different animal and especially in the non enterprise context. For power users who are familiar with scripting, terminal, etc. Linux can work but even there there are constant trade offs between distros.

Personally this is why I use a Mac for non gaming stuff and locked down Windows 11 LTSC for gaming (with appropriate add-ons to make life easier). I have a TrueNAS box and a home lab servers running Linux as well, but again, that's not your regular use case.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

If Linux can't run Doom properly than that's a Linux problem. Something that should be brought to light. No one should have to cater to Linux by curating the games they pick for benckmarks. Especially not omitting popular recently released games or games that are technical showcases for the medium.

True

But it also tells you why "average" is often useless if you don't cleanup the outliers. People who do these comparisons get to pick which games they use, how they configure their system, graphics settings, OS. Some will end up benefiting one over the other.

So, the troubles should be brought into light, it's most likely a thing that can be fixed:

 

[xrnzaaas]

Steam OS is the preferred os for PC gaming handhelds. Various Linux builds using proton on a user built PC is a mixed bag. The new steam machine could make some sort of foothold if they don't price it retarded and figure out a way around the anti cheat software issues in MP games. Paying as much for a device as the ps5 pro that is weaker with less vram with no fix for a lot of MP games doesn't make a lot of sense and probably won't make a lot of sales. I said this before, but if they go that route that is like bringing out the the steam deck NOW with it's 2022 specs and pricing it considerably more than the switch 2.

The anti-cheat protection went too far with what it needs from your system to work properly, including having you make changes in BIOS. If Steam OS will become more popular there's a chance this trend will (at least partially) go away, because the publishers will still want to have their games on this system. I really hope for such an outcome, a videogame shouldn't be getting more system privileges even than some antivirus software.

 

[Kacho]

but most folks really don't give a shit about any of this and stick with Windows just because.

Yep.

It's not about taking over. They just make a better product. Apple Silicon is actual innovation, something Microsoft is not able to match.

Better is subjective. If you like MacOS or Linux better than Windows then good for you. Whoopty doo. No one really cares.

 

[Bernkastel]

Better is subjective. If you like MacOS or Linux better than Windows then good for you. Whoopty doo. No one really cares.

But I showed you objective benchmarks as well. If you use creativity software like Resolve, they just work way better on macOS.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Show me. Post some benchmarks. On a Desktop PC like he did. Using the latest GPUs like he did.

Dude, just watch the video. You can skim through the slides really quickly.

Plague tell Requiem performs better.

Witcher 3 has higher top frames on win, but on pat 1% lows, which I'd argue matter more. Cyberpunk 2077 is on par.

Doom Dark Ages and Last of Us Part 2 are the biggest wins.

Other games have higher AVG, but nearly identical 1% lows.

To remind you, I am attacking the claim that AMD sucks across the board. It's simply not true.

Anyone that has an AMD GPU I really truly should give Bazzite a try. They will be amazed at how much more enjoyable the gaming environment is. Bazzite makes it such that I can run games entirely from my couch with a controller, without ever having to touch a keyboard.

I get no such experience from windows. Despite doing my best to turn windows into a living room PC, I can never not have to pick up the keyboard to fix some stupid issue: such as a window opening over my game (Ubisoft Connect is the worst for this). Stupid crap like sound randomly switching to stereo mode and having to reable Dolby Atmos.

 

[Mister Wolf]

True

But it also tells you why "average" is often useless if you don't cleanup the outliers. People who do these comparisons get to pick which games they use, how they configure their system, graphics settings, OS. Some will end up benefiting one over the other.

So, the troubles should be brought into light, it's most likely a thing that can be fixed:

What his benchmark pointed out isn't about Doom. It's about Linux struggling with hardware accelerated raytracing:

 

[Sonik]

Last time I installed Win 11 on a couple of friends of mine's gaming PCs they just had constant problems with updates and stupid fucking Microsoft problems. If SteamOS is released for PC that's the OS I'll be installing on friends' PCs unless they play multiplayer games with anti-cheat. I've witnessed multiple people now who don't know shit about PCs say nothing but praises for Steam Deck and even though they had incompatibility problems with a few games it was nothing like the barrage of complaints I've had about Windows 11, certain Linux versions are now more noob friendly than the Windows clusterfuck

Btw, Microsoft is simply too incompetent, arrogant and out of touch, even if they see Valve taking over I'm convinced they can't do anything about it anymore

 

[Kacho]

But I showed you objective benchmarks as well. If you use creativity software like Resolve, they just work way better on macOS.

What's important to you isn't necessarily important to others. If the creativity software Apple provides matters to you then get a Mac. If you're serious about gaming build a Windows/Linux PC.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Steam OS is already having a positive impact on Windows gaming so yeah, competition is always good

Reading this thread has disapointed me. Competition from Linux is literally the best thing that can happen and yet we have so much Stockholm Syndrome in this thread.

"Doesn't matter, Windows will always win"

I'll say it again:

Anyone with an all AMD system (which is not the majority) should absolutely give Bazzite a try. They will be amazed at how smooth and wonderful the experience is.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I think another big issue is fragmentation. Too many distros, each doing their own thing.

At work I just use RedHat an Ubuntu, plus AWS/Oracle Linux, depending on a use case. But we don't need USB drivers, printers, WiFi, and even GUI interface on like 99% of our server workloads.

For regular PCs that's a different animal and especially in the non enterprise context. For power users who are familiar with scripting, terminal, etc. Linux can work but even there there are constant trade offs between distros.

Personally this is why I use a Mac for non gaming stuff and locked down Windows 11 LTSC for gaming (with appropriate add-ons to make life easier). I have a TrueNAS box and a home lab servers running Linux as well, but again, that's not your regular use case.

Yes, but there are distros exclusively for gaming. They're not hard to find.

Mint Linux actually works great as a windows alternative.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Last time I installed Win 11 on a couple of friends of mine's gaming PCs they just had constant problems with updates and stupid fucking Microsoft problems. If SteamOS is released for PC that's the OS I'll be installing on friends' PCs unless they play multiplayer games with anti-cheat. I've witnessed multiple people now who don't know shit about PCs say nothing but praises for Steam Deck and even though they had incompatibility problems with a few games it was nothing like the barrage of complaints I've had about Windows 11, certain Linux versions are now more noob friendly than the Windows clusterfuck

Btw, Microsoft is simply too incompetent, arrogant and out of touch, even if they see Valve taking over I'm convinced they can't do anything about it anymore

What they did with the Ally X, tells me that they at least recognize that it can be an issue.


Having said that, I do not believe that they have it in them to make that kind of true gaming OS. They will not be able to resist the urge to infest it with telemetry, spyware/ads. They simply don't have it in them.

 

[Topher]

I think another big issue is fragmentation. Too many distros, each doing their own thing.

At work I just use RedHat an Ubuntu, plus AWS/Oracle Linux, depending on a use case. But we don't need USB drivers, printers, WiFi, and even GUI interface on like 99% of our server workloads.

For regular PCs that's a different animal and especially in the non enterprise context. For power users who are familiar with scripting, terminal, etc. Linux can work but even there there are constant trade offs between distros.

Personally this is why I use a Mac for non gaming stuff and locked down Windows 11 LTSC for gaming (with appropriate add-ons to make life easier). I have a TrueNAS box and a home lab servers running Linux as well, but again, that's not your regular use case.

Yep. There are really just three primary Linux flavors that everyone else bounces off of: Fedora, Debian and Arch. From there it is splintered off into hundreds of variants, most of them uselesss. Steam OS is one of the few distros that is actually used to sell a product. So you've got a company like Valve that has probably made more headway in the Linux conversation than any other effort in history. Without Proton, this wouldn't even be a thread. So really, Linux's future is directly tied to Valve at this point. If/when Valve releases Steam OS for the general user then I imagine they are going to have to address specific things such as the Nvidia problem. That's probably me hoping more than anything. I've jumped on to the Linux boat so many times only to nope out because it is just not there yet. But yeah.....one cohesive effort from Valve is going make more difference than all those hundreds of distros combined.

 

[Paasei]

Are Nvidia GPU's and their drivers up to par yet?

 

[Topher]

Reading this thread has disapointed me. Competition from Linux is literally the best thing that can happen and yet we have so much Stockholm Syndrome in this thread.

"Doesn't matter, Windows will always win"

I'll say it again:

Anyone with an all AMD system (which is not the majority) should absolutely give Bazzite a try. They will be amazed at how smooth and wonderful the experience is.

Bazzite kicks ass, no doubt. The "windows will always win" argument doesn't really mean much to me. On my desk right now I've got MacBook (that I'm typing on), Legion Go S with Steam OS and a Windows gaming PC. They all have their own purpose and what the vast majority of the world does has little bearing on any of it.

 

[StereoVsn]

Yes, but there are distros exclusively for gaming. They're not hard to find.

Mint Linux actually works great as a windows alternative.

"They are not hard to find". I mean sure, you can find CachyOS, Bazzite, Nobara, etc… with each having upsides and downsides.

For a regular person who is not super computer savvy, that's a tall order. And then come issues with peripheral support and all kinds of other quirkiness. And Mint while good has its own problems.

Anyways, for a power user, above isn't a deal breaker. But even then, personally I work with computer systems all day, every day, and at home I want things to work consistently for regular PCs. I would rather f with AI, containers or Arduino in my free time (or game) rather than trying to figure out why a particular printer, gaming peripheral or whatever else is going to fail.

And I especially don't want to do above for my kids computers, which is why they have Macs.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

"They are not hard to find". I mean sure, you can find CachyOS, Bazzite, Nobara, etc… with each having upsides and downsides.

For a regular person who is not super computer savvy, that's a tall order. And then come issues with peripheral support and all kinds of other quirkiness. And Mint while good has its own problems.

Anyways, for a power user, above isn't a deal breaker. But even then, personally I work with computer systems all day, every day, and at home I want things to work consistently for regular PCs. I would rather f with AI, containers or Arduino in my free time (or game) rather than trying to figure out why a particular printer, gaming peripheral or whatever else is going to fail.

And I especially don't want to do above for my kids computers, which is why they have Macs.

It's as much of a tall order as you might think. My best friend who is not tech savvy, found tons of resources on how to solve Linux problems. He simply wanted what Bazzite provided and found resources on proton and such.

 

[StereoVsn]

Bazzite kicks ass, no doubt. The "windows will always win" argument doesn't really mean much to me. On my desk right now I've got MacBook (that I'm typing on), Legion Go S with Steam OS and a Windows gaming PC. They all have their own purpose and what the vast majority of the world does has little bearing on any of it.

Yep, I got Macs, Linux NAS, Linux home lab box, Steam Deck, Ally with Bazzite, ann older emubox and couple Windows 11 boxes.

There are valid reasons why folks don't jump on Linux for gaming or other use cases and not just because of Nvidia (which is a huge problem in itself considering market share).

Personally, Mac ecosystem is amazing (cheaper than you would think) and ridiculously easy to use and manage for the whole family. I would not be switching to Linux for day to day unless Apple majorly f-s up.

 

[StereoVsn]

It's as much of a tall order as you might think. My best friend who is not tech savvy, found tons of resources on how to solve Linux problems. He simply wanted what Bazzite provided and found resources on proton and such.

It's certainly doable and much easier now vs even say 3 years ago. And it's especially so with modern chatbots.

 

[nemiroff]

Funny thing is, I've been hearing this exact same thing over and over for decades. "BUT, THIS TIME IT'LL HAPPEN!"

edit:

No. I have feeling OS/2 Warp is the future.

But does it run Leisure Suit Larry???

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Reading this thread has disapointed me.

It's not Stockholm syndrome, people have their reasons. Please understand Windows already has enough problems for ordinary people, but the solution is equally easy. Linux has additional problems whose solution requires specialized forums, which adds more problems then switching to Linux is like transforming a simple process into a complex one.

Windows doesn't lead the market because it's a monopoly, but because there's quality in the product. Perhaps with AI there will be less need to use Adobe, Office, and editing programs, but until that happens, I don't recommend anyone limit themselves with ideas like "Linux is for games." Who wants a crippled computer ? I want a complete computer, and even if I don't use a feature, I want it to be there. Linux has alternative programs; in general, people aren't used to them.