Linux is the future of gaming if Microsoft do not do something

crackajack said:
I counted Valve as part of Linux, their work is making Steam stuff compatible to every Linux and not some special tool only one distro, their own, would adopt. Even the Linuxfromscratch guys have Steam in their gaming manuals...
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Sure, OK. I was just trying to create a counter balance to the idea that Linux gaming is better than Windows gaming.. not a sentiment that you are pushing, just in general... A lot of people still play games on their PC outside of the Steam ecosystem. Which included many independent clients like Riot Software, EA App (popular for sports PC gaming), Battle.net, the Xbox app, Rockstar Social Club, etc. many of those still have issues running on Linux or any compatibility layers. This also goes for anything that requires anti-cheat system.

crackajack said:
...Without Valve starting their "fine I'll do it myself" move, Linux would not have made much if any progress. Took them ages to get there, but they really push through.
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I was there since the first Steam Linux builds. I remember when the only games that were playable were like... Half-Life 2, Portal, and Left 4 Dead 2... which all were partially running nattively on Linux with a lot of wrappers for DX9/DX10 effects and so forth. The original Steam client was really buggy, and had dependency issues. Which was something that was solved with the Steam runtime environment.

As I have said before, Valve has been one of the biggest contributors to Linux as a whole over the last decade, as far as gaming goes. Currently Linux use as a whole according to Steam statistics went from 0% when I started using the Linux Steam client to 3.20%, which is honestly, quite a lot of pull from Valve. Valve brought a lot of new users to the Linux environment. I think their investment in Linux has honestly paid off in a longer run.

It really goes to show how more than just a token investment can lead to bigger things.

But going back to my point. Linux gaming is mostly a Valve ecosystem at this current point in time. Keep that in mind for those who are looking to get into using Linux as a gaming platform.

If you are still using those other gaming clients to play games outside of Steam.. or want to play online in some of the bigger non Steam games. There are still lots of hurdles to overcome.
 
MrCunningham said:
Sure, OK. I was just trying to create a counter balance to the idea that Linux gaming is better than Windows gaming.. not a sentiment that you are pushing, just in general... A lot of people still play games on their PC outside of the Steam ecosystem. Which included many independent clients like Riot Software, EA App (popular for sports PC gaming), Battle.net, the Xbox app, Rockstar Social Club, etc. many of those still have issues running on Linux or any compatibility layers. This also goes for anything that requires anti-cheat system.



I was there since the first Steam Linux builds. I remember when the only games that were playable were like... Half-Life 2, Portal, and Left 4 Dead 2... which all were partially running nattively on Linux with a lot of wrappers for DX9/DX10 effects and so forth. The original Steam client was really buggy, and had dependency issues. Which was something that was solved with the Steam runtime environment.

As I have said before, Valve has been one of the biggest contributors to Linux as a whole over the last decade, as far as gaming goes. Currently Linux use as a whole according to Steam statistics went from 0% when I started using the Linux Steam client to 3.20%, which is honestly, quite a lot of pull from Valve. Valve brought a lot of new users to the Linux environment. I think their investment in Linux has honestly paid off in a longer run.

It really goes to show how more than just a token investment can lead to bigger things.

But going back to my point. Linux gaming is mostly a Valve ecosystem at this current point in time. Keep that in mind for those who are looking to get into using Linux as a gaming platform.

If you are still using those other gaming clients to play games outside of Steam.. or want to play online in some of the bigger non Steam games. There are still lots of hurdles to overcome.
Click to expand...

The anti-cheat enabled multiplayer issues might not persist forever. Windows isn't exactly getting favourable coverage in the tech press. The new steam survey just posted another increase in Linux users. Once it crosses 4-5% it's going to be a much more serious contender.

The biggest threat I see to a much bigger increase in Linux market share is Microsoft producing PC-Console hybrids that let you use a mouse and keyboard and game with the latest greatest features. It lets people not get locked into Microsoft's agentic AI bullshit that harvests their data and still play their games. It's what I wanted the Series X to be back-in-the-day. But they didn't quite hit that target for me. I suspect that's why Valve is trying to hit first with the new Steam Box. Could be an interesting next few years tbh.

As far as a consumer operating system goes. Beyond gaming, who actually likes using Windows?
 
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Broad Spectrum said:
The anti-cheat enabled multiplayer issues might not persist forever. Windows isn't exactly getting favourable coverage in the tech press. The new steam survey just posted another increase in Linux users. Once it crosses 4-5% it's going to be a much more serious contender.
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Perhaps not. But as it stands now, that is a major stopping point for people who want to switch over to Linux from Windows. That and the fact that many of the non-Steam game clients are hit and miss on Linux.

Broad Spectrum said:
As far as a consumer operating system goes. Beyond gaming, who actually likes using Windows?
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I think the Majority of PC users use laptops over PC towers, and don't really seem to have much criticism with Windows as an operating system. I think the majority are just happy that Windows 11 does what it needs to do. The people who scream the most about Windows 11 are in a vocal minority. There are people out there who happily use ChromeOS. MacOS has it's die hard user base. MacOS really is tied directly to the Apple hardware experience.

As far as 'normie sphere' OSes go. It's Android and iOS still leading the way. But overall, it is hard to judge what the typical toleranc level for an operating system is for the general public. Windows does still have the best customer support and supports the most software out of the box.... outside of Android and iOS.
 
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Mister Wolf said:
A statement as silly as that doesn't even merit a response. I believe we provided enough evidence throughout this thread to showcase why switching from Windows to Linux for desktop PC gaming is a terrible decision. Even with my case of using a Xbox ROG Ally X, it would be a terrible decision.
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Who is this "we" you speak of? Do you happen to work for the same company?
 
MrCunningham said:
Perhaps not. But as it stands now, that is a major stopping point for people who want to switch over to Linux from Windows. That and the fact that many of the non-Steam game clients are hit and miss on Linux.



I think the Majority of PC users use laptops over PC towers, and don't really seem to have much criticism with Windows as an operating system. I think the majority are just happy that Windows 11 does what it needs to do. The people who scream the most about Windows 11 are in a vocal minority. There are people out there who happily use ChromeOS. MacOS has it's die hard user base. MacOS really is tied directly to the Apple hardware experience.

As far as 'normie sphere' OSes go. It's Android and iOS still leading the way. But overall, it is hard to judge what the typical toleranc level for an operating system is for the general public. Windows does still have the best customer support and supports the most software out of the box.... outside of Android and iOS.
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It depends on the game client. Epic and GOG work very well. I also have a hard time viewing the explosion of complaints both from the tech press and general users as a vocal minority. I've never seen press coverage of Microsoft's operating systems have this sever of a negative tilt. And it's not an undeserved negative tilt. They're doing a ton to annoy regular users and enthusiasts alike.
 
Broad Spectrum said:
It depends on the game client. Epic and GOG work very well.
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I honestly don't even get the merit of this complaint.

Proton ended up influencing Heroic Games Launcher to exist, which is such a better general experience for me clustering Amazon, GoG & Epic Games Store titles in one app, vs using their separate launchers...that I installed the Windows version of Heroic too because it's also better on W11 than bothering with 3 launchers.

You can set it when installing a game through there to auto-add it to Steam as a non-steam game, add launcher arguments through it like skipping game logo intros or in PikaOS for Linux auto-force newest version of DLSS transformer model.
 
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Durin said:
I honestly don't even get the merit of this complaint.

Proton ended up influencing Heroic Games Launcher to exist, which is such a better general experience for me clustering Amazon, GoG & Epic Games Store titles in one app, vs using their separate launchers...that I installed the Windows version of Heroic too because it's also better on W11 than bothering with 3 launchers.

You can set it when installing a game through there to auto-add it to Steam as a non-steam game, add launcher arguments through it like skipping game logo intros or in PikaOS for Linux auto-force newest version of DLSS transformer model.
Click to expand...
I don't understand it either unless they're referring to game-specific lauchers. With Steam and Epic... You already have representation for the majority of games.
 
Mister Wolf said:
I believe "we" would refer to the individuals who provided contrarian evidence to the topic being discussed. Read the title of the thread again.
Click to expand...

oh, and where are they? will they present the evidence or it will be like the epstein files? because so far linux is gaining market and improving fast while MS is apparently trying to ruin windows which goes with the title of the thread, linux already is the most dominant in cellphones a market MS lost after being well positioned back in the day when modems where accessory and the devices known as "pocketpc"
 
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polybius80 said:
oh, and where are they? will they present the evidence or it will be like the epstein files? because so far linux is gaining market and improving fast while MS is apparently trying to ruin windows, linux already is the most dominant in cellphones a market MS lost after dominating it back in the day when modems where and accessory and where known as "pocketpc"
Click to expand...

You've seen the evidence throughout this thread. You're going to have to accept reality. At 3% marketshare be grateful for whatever crumbs Nvidia and AMD throw your way.
 
Broad Spectrum said:
It depends on the game client. Epic and GOG work very well. I also have a hard time viewing the explosion of complaints both from the tech press and general users as a vocal minority. I've never seen press coverage of Microsoft's operating systems have this sever of a negative tilt. And it's not an undeserved negative tilt. They're doing a ton to annoy regular users and enthusiasts alike.
Click to expand...

I wasn't trying to defend Windows 11 on that front. I suppose with latest updates destroying hard drives, and performance penalties. There has been reason to complain. As a whole Windows 11 is still has the most support out of any OS, with Android not being too far behind it.

Which is why I am still a little hesitant to tell people who are 'comfy' with Windows 11 to ditch it all and start using Linux instead. But I would recommend trying some distro as a secondary OS.

I have been using various Linux distros since 2007 as my daily driver, ans I still have nightmares of trying to manually configure xorg/ x11 just to get various different resolutions to work. Or spending hours of trial and error getting a wireless driver built from source.
 
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falconhoof said:
Click to expand...


One thing I will say... using any ID Software game on Proton as a benchmark to show how good Linux is - feels like 'cheating'. Doom 2016, Doom Eternal, Doom: The Dark Ages with Vulkan enabled runs like a banshee in Proton.

I am impressed with this guys' 'low spec' test rig, which is a repurposed Dell Inspiration, or something like that. Just a 4 core/ 8 thread i7 7xxx (whatever), GeForce 3060 6GB, and 16GB DDR4, and getting some decent performance results in Steam Proton. That's pretty cool that he used old hardware.

I think it bodes well for Valves upcoming Steam machine, with is a Ryzen 7800H at 4.8GHz 8c/16t, 16 GB DDR5, Radeon 7600 mobile GPU with 8 GDDR6, which is not a mind blowing specs wise.
 
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ReBurn said:
Internet Explorer wasn't renamed to Edge. Edge is a completely different architecture based on open source Chromium. It started as a successor to IE, but the decision to use Chromium made it a proper browser.

The most likely reason your app broke is that it was probably dependent on ActiveX, and if that's the case the app probably needed to die anyway.

ActiveX took everything safe about a web browser and completely destroyed it to provide low-level interoperability between web-based apps and Windows system functionality like native apps had. The safety standard for browsers was, and is, to try to completely wall off direct system interaction from the browser to keep a system safe. Microsoft took a crowbar made of ActiveX and broke all of those safeties because that's what stupid companies wanted and in doing so handed your whole computer to the internet. The only reason IE apps lived as long as they did is that the same stupid companies refused to build proper versions even when they knew the risks. It took Edge to force a meaningful change.
Click to expand...

The first Edge browser was released in 2015 and used the EdgeHTML engine, which was a fork of Internet Explorer's Trident Engine. It therefore suffered from the same problems, so in 2020, Microsoft switched to the Chromium engine for greater compatibility.


kevboard said:
it absolutely is a Linux issue.
Linux's fragmentation means it's nearly impossible to "support Linux". at best we could see developers support very specific distros.
so they'd have to decide which ones to support, so we would maybe get games that support only SteamOS, or only Bazzite.

you can't make a secure anticheat system that works on just any Linux version. meanwhile on the windows side, supporting only 1 version already means supporting millions of users. supporting 2 versions adds another couple of millions.
supporting SteamOS would maybe get you 3 million potential users, and realistically only a couple of thousand actual users.
Click to expand...

I think fragmentation is a weak excuse. The binary is compatible with anything that runs the Linux kernel. The only difference between distros is the package manager and whether they are faster or slower at updating.

Ultimately, the vast majority of people are concentrated on three main distributions: Arch, Debian, and Red Hat. Developers only need to worry about one of them, like Debian, which has the largest number of users. The other distributions will simply adapt themselves to their own distributions without requiring developer intervention. Even within Arch, a large portion of the software in the AUR (User Repository) is actually from other distributions, people create scripts that automate the installation. For example, I use Brave Browser, the script basically downloads the .deb file made for Ubuntu, unpacks it, and moves the files to the Arch binaries directory.

If the developer uses a universal solution like Flatpak, there's no need to worry about that.
 
MrCunningham said:
Sure, OK. I was just trying to create a counter balance to the idea that Linux gaming is better than Windows gaming.. not a sentiment that you are pushing, just in general... A lot of people still play games on their PC outside of the Steam ecosystem. Which included many independent clients like Riot Software, EA App (popular for sports PC gaming), Battle.net, the Xbox app, Rockstar Social Club, etc. many of those still have issues running on Linux or any compatibility layers. This also goes for anything that requires anti-cheat system.



I was there since the first Steam Linux builds. I remember when the only games that were playable were like... Half-Life 2, Portal, and Left 4 Dead 2... which all were partially running nattively on Linux with a lot of wrappers for DX9/DX10 effects and so forth. The original Steam client was really buggy, and had dependency issues. Which was something that was solved with the Steam runtime environment.

As I have said before, Valve has been one of the biggest contributors to Linux as a whole over the last decade, as far as gaming goes. Currently Linux use as a whole according to Steam statistics went from 0% when I started using the Linux Steam client to 3.20%, which is honestly, quite a lot of pull from Valve. Valve brought a lot of new users to the Linux environment. I think their investment in Linux has honestly paid off in a longer run.

It really goes to show how more than just a token investment can lead to bigger things.

But going back to my point. Linux gaming is mostly a Valve ecosystem at this current point in time. Keep that in mind for those who are looking to get into using Linux as a gaming platform.

If you are still using those other gaming clients to play games outside of Steam.. or want to play online in some of the bigger non Steam games. There are still lots of hurdles to overcome.
Click to expand...
A very fair take.

Nevertheless, I legit feel that anyone with an AMD GPU/CPU, absolutely should give Linux a try, specifically Bazzite.

Despite me shilling for Linux, I am running Windows on my Home Theater PC using Windows 11 IoT LTSC, and while it is not remotely close to what I got using Bazzite in terms of feel and convenience. It does get the job done.

The issue that drove me away from Linux and ultimately forced me to trade in my 9070XT for a 5070 Ti, was lack of HDMI 2.1 support in Linux. That is it. If that issue can get fixed with AMD, I will happily trade my 5070 Ti for a 9070 XT and run Bazzite full time on my living room PC. OR if someone how nvidia can get its issues sorted out in Linux...mainly the DX12 titles performance penalties.
 
MrCunningham said:
One thing I will say... using any ID Software game on Proton as a benchmark to show how good Linux is - feels like 'cheating'. Doom 2016, Doom Eternal, Doom: The Dark Ages with Vulkan enabled runs like a banshee in Proton.

I am impressed with this guys' 'low spec' test rig, which is a repurposed Dell Inspiration, or something like that. Just a 4 core/ 8 thread i7 7xxx (whatever), GeForce 3060 6GB, and 16GB DDR4, and getting some decent performance results in Steam Proton. That's pretty cool that he used old hardware.

I think it bodes well for Valves upcoming Steam machine, with is a Ryzen 7800H at 4.8GHz 8c/16t, 16 GB DDR5, Radeon 7600 mobile GPU with 8 GDDR6, which is not a mind blowing specs wise.
Click to expand...
If there was one change I would mandate in the industry it would be that DirectX is ditched and everyone switches to Vulkan for that reason alone. A Vulkan only game eliminates one step of translation that is...at the moment... fatal for nvidia GPUs.
 
Wolzard said:
If the developer uses a universal solution like Flatpak, there's no need to worry about that.
Click to expand...

Generally speaking Appimages, flatpaks and snaps are a good solution to get around dependency inconsistencies between different distros. But it can also bloat the packages, depending on how many unique dependencies are included. Also flatpaks, etc are sandboxed and have some limitations with using multiple harddrives. But there are workarounds. Windows solved the dependency issue a long time ago with the SXS file systems.
 
MrCunningham said:
Generally speaking Appimages, flatpaks and snaps are a good solution to get around dependency inconsistencies between different distros. But it can also bloat the packages, depending on how many unique dependencies are included. Also flatpaks, etc are sandboxed and have some limitations with using multiple harddrives. But there are workarounds. Windows solved the dependency issue a long time ago with the SXS file systems.
Click to expand...

This limitation depends on how the developer who generated the flatpak configures the permissions. It's possible to make some dependencies shareable between different flatpaks.
 
Wolzard said:
This limitation depends on how the developer who generated the flatpak configures the permissions. It's possible to make some dependencies shareable between different flatpaks.
Click to expand...
Flatseal. Works great for linking to multiple hard drives with Steam.

qu8bPKxxHnhJqrrB.png
 
Broad Spectrum said:

Microsoft finally admits almost all major Windows 11 core features are broken


"Meanwhile on the Windows side, it has probably been worse. The tech giant got blamed by Nvidia today as the latest Patch Tuesday is leading to performance issues in games. The GPU maker has released an emergency hotfix driver to resolve the problems."

"...has admitted that there are problems on almost every major Windows 11 core feature."



Paging Windows defence force Mister Wolf Mister Wolf Kacho Kacho rodrigolfp rodrigolfp
Click to expand...

I showed you the benchmarks. Linux lost. Learn to live with the result.
 
Broad Spectrum said:

Microsoft finally admits almost all major Windows 11 core features are broken


"Meanwhile on the Windows side, it has probably been worse. The tech giant got blamed by Nvidia today as the latest Patch Tuesday is leading to performance issues in games. The GPU maker has released an emergency hotfix driver to resolve the problems."

"...has admitted that there are problems on almost every major Windows 11 core feature."



Paging Windows defence force Mister Wolf Mister Wolf Kacho Kacho rodrigolfp rodrigolfp
Click to expand...

Oh oh let me go first. These problems will probably not hit everyone and probably not persist forever. Though it does prove that windows has its own problems. I wanted to get a good faith argument in before the regularly scheduled programming.

Edit: too slow.
 
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Broad Spectrum said:

Microsoft finally admits almost all major Windows 11 core features are broken


"Meanwhile on the Windows side, it has probably been worse. The tech giant got blamed by Nvidia today as the latest Patch Tuesday is leading to performance issues in games. The GPU maker has released an emergency hotfix driver to resolve the problems."

"...has admitted that there are problems on almost every major Windows 11 core feature."



Paging Windows defence force Mister Wolf Mister Wolf Kacho Kacho rodrigolfp rodrigolfp
Click to expand...
Damn. Its over.

Edit: I thought it sounded familiar. We already had a thread on that. Days old news.

YCoCg

Thread 'Microsoft finally admits almost all major Windows 11 core features are broken'

Meanwhile on the Windows side, it has probably been worse. The tech giant got blamed by Nvidia today as the latest Patch Tuesday is leading to performance issues in games. The GPU maker has released an emergency hotfix driver to resolve the problems.

This comes hot on the heels of the massive backlash that the company's Windows boss recently faced due to the evolution of the operating system into an agentic OS as unveiled earlier this week.

On the positive side though, following all that backlash, Microsoft acknowledged Windows has issues, and as if on cue, the company in a new...
Click to expand...
  • LOL
  • Like
  • Triggered
  • Fire
  • Empathy
 
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Broad Spectrum said:

Microsoft finally admits almost all major Windows 11 core features are broken


"Meanwhile on the Windows side, it has probably been worse. The tech giant got blamed by Nvidia today as the latest Patch Tuesday is leading to performance issues in games. The GPU maker has released an emergency hotfix driver to resolve the problems."

"...has admitted that there are problems on almost every major Windows 11 core feature."



Paging Windows defence force Mister Wolf Mister Wolf Kacho Kacho rodrigolfp rodrigolfp
Click to expand...
And the only gaming related already got a fix, so???
 
At the rate we're going, Linux will surparss Windows in performance less because Linux keeps getting better and more because windows keeps getting worse
 
Broad Spectrum said:
Microsoft fanboys
Click to expand...
God I love the internet lol

Feels like this thread has run its course. We got a random no-name account with 100 posts bumping a thread after six hours of inactivity to start shit with days old news we already have a thread on. I love shitposting as much as the next guy but come on…

Regardless, Linux vs Windows seems like it will be the hot new meta on NeoGAF dot com going forward and I look forward to it.
 
Kacho said:
God I love the internet lol

Feels like this thread has run its course. We got a random no-name account with 100 posts bumping a thread after six hours of inactivity to start shit with days old news we already have a thread on. I love shitposting as much as the next guy but come on…

Regardless, Linux vs Windows seems like it will be the hot new meta on NeoGAF dot com going forward and I look forward to it.
Click to expand...

Eh....there's been plenty of shitpositing to go around, but I agree.....the thread has lost is luster to me. lol.....I never thought we would see OS warz again so that much has been entertaining.
 
Kacho said:
God I love the internet lol

Feels like this thread has run its course. We got a random no-name account with 100 posts bumping a thread after six hours of inactivity to start shit with days old news we already have a thread on. I love shitposting as much as the next guy but come on…
Click to expand...
Roughly the length of an average workday. The bad thing about being an open source aficionado is you don't get paid to post. Someone let me know if Microsoft is hiring plz :pie_wfwt:
 
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