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[MMaRsu]

- Platformers are no longer such an appealing genre
- Appears too childish
- Demographics on PS3 are wrong for this title

Those. I was always saying this wasn't going to be a system seller, but alot of Sony people on this board told me I was wrong. Oh well.

Anyway I'd probably love the game if I could afford a Ps3. Not hating on the game or Ps3.

A. The mass market has not overlooked LBP.
B. You're incorrect in your base assumption that the PS3 is a mass market product.

At $600 it isn't.
At any of the other prices it has been at, it isn't.

99% of all of the fanboy wars and arguments can be boiled down to this: THE PS3 COSTS TOO MUCH MONEY.

It could be a mercedes---in terms of reliability maybe it is----but the pricepoint makes it almost an obscene luxury, not a game console.

Yeah this too. I see ads for both 360 and Ps3 all the time here in the Netherlands, but 360 has a much bigger presence on tv. When you see a Fallout 3 ad on tv with it at the end saying Xbox 360 for €150, and then later you see a Ps3 commercial with it saying €399 at the end, it's a big difference.

Xbox 360 is going to sell shitloads this season, Ps3, not so much.

 

[freethought]

Can any retail workers chip in with how the game is doing?

Yeah, that's what this thread needs; anecdotal evidence. I know my local Gamestation had no copies in the week after launch. Megahit?

 

[DDayton]

Because it's on the PS3

A. The mass market has not overlooked LBP.
B. You're incorrect in your base assumption that the PS3 is a mass market product.

At $600 it isn't.
At any of the other prices it has been at, it isn't.

99% of all of the fanboy wars and arguments can be boiled down to this: THE PS3 COSTS TOO MUCH MONEY.

It could be a mercedes---in terms of reliability maybe it is----but the pricepoint makes it almost an obscene luxury, not a game console.

I agree with these two.

 

[Toy Soldier]

Amazing level editor but poor platformer.

It wouldn't rank in my Top 3 platformers of the year (creation tools notwithstanding, just factoring in the pure platforming), but I really dig it. It breathes a lot of fresh air into the genre...the interactivity with objects and textures being one of the most fun and best-executed platforming mechanics of the generation.

Personally, I wish it would had been limited to one axis of movement. Dealing with moving/jumping between the multiple planes is sometimes too frustrating for its own good, especially with the generally-floaty controls. It's not as if the game really punishes you for misjudging jumps, but still - I'd have a lot more fun with same gameplay mechanics being offered in a more-accessible straight 2D platformer.

Can any retail workers chip in with how the game is doing?

Dead, at my GS. We moved a fair amount in the first few days, mainly among the loyal PS3 owners who buy lots of exclusives anyway, but it's totally stalled since. I don't think I've seen a PS3 sold alongside it, despite the wholehearted recommendations we give it to new PS3 buyers (I try hard there, just speaking from how much I dig the game, but most folks I talk to seem to be turned off by the visual style once I show it to them).

 

[Brashnir]

Although I'd say it's really too early to judge sales, I'd guess that if it actually bombs, it's because people nowadays don't care for cute platformers with floaty physics and a 'selfmade' graphics design..

Also, it could be that the creation feature doesn't speak to many people. I mean, if I had a PS3, I'd be all over LBP, but the fact I don't have access to it doesn't kill me either. And I'm one of those guys who'd love to own LBP just for making levels and stuff.

I'll say though, LBP bombing would make me sad.

It already hasn't actually "bombed." I mean, it didn't light the sales charts on fire, but it did chart in a pretty congested month. The only thing it could really be considered a bomb next to would be the enormous expectations of some GAFers, or in the minds of those with some sort of all-or-nothing disorder.

 

[wormstrangler]

They copied that from Mr. Bean!

 

[gofreak]

Shuhei Yoshida, Sony worldwide studio boss, said: “LittleBigPlanet is going to be the biggest title for Sony in all markets this year”

I think he meant in terms of marketing push..

And while we can argue about TV ads, I've not seen Sony push a game on the ground, here, like they have LBP.

This is what you get when you feed your userbase shooters and racing games. MM is like RARE on 360, they made a brilliant game but there's just no audience for it.

I'm gonna guess LBP has done better relative to the userbase than any of Rare's games have on 360..(that didn't benefit from being launch titles at the very least). I'm also going to point out that LBP has been universally acclaimed, unlike Rare's titles It's a lazy comparison to say they're like Rare, and too big a compliment for Rare as of late to be perfectly honest.

On the general topic of the thread, I think it should be doing better, it deserves better, but I don't think I'd say it's bombed.. it should have pushed out 600k or more in its first couple of weeks worldwide looking at MC and NPD (and guessing that it's done at least as well in EU as US). That isn't bad.

(There are some spurious claims being made about the game in this thread too, but I'm not even going to bother addressing those. This thread will be a honey pot.)

 

[Dina]

Having complex creative elements never withheld Forza 2 from having millions of custom-made cars and about as many cars sold on the ingame auction house. Also sold millions of copies, including bundles (also goes for LBP).

But Forza 2 was at its core a good game. LBP is lacking in that regard. Lack of marketing-clarity is also hurting a confuses demographic.

 

[McValdemar]

LBP characters are absolutely fantastic but...
...the problem is that the game is not a mass-market game.

Peopl can be lured by the sackboys but the game, after all, is "just" a very good platform with superb characters.
Unfortunately platform games are not in the interest of the mass.

And the editor?
C'mon, probably everyone can do "something" with it, but to produce a real level is, again, something not for the mass.

People don't have to be surprised.
All the rumor about LBP, the articles, the ton of news and posts was all due to fans of the game (or of PS3) that could lead someone to think that LBP was going to be a stellar masterpiece with stellar sales.

 

[Busty]

They copied that from Mr. Bean!

*slap wormstrangler across the face*

Shut your dirty mouth.

 

[MidiSurf]

:lol

And you're saying that just for the beta, yeah... totally fair.

Looks like the thread title is atracting the trolls.

Hey, it's just me.

I have been playing platformers since firs Mario game and I must say there are many classic 2d platformers ahead of LBP. Creating stuff is extremely fun in LBP but the actual platforming isn't so much fun. At least I got bored with it very soon.

 

[McBradders]

LOL, please play the game!

Did you play "the Creators" levels yet? I've aced the shit out of every 2D Mario game, Sonic game, countless others and some of those felt particularly harsh. It's not 'casual' friendly in the slightest.

 

[freddy]

The floaty jumping mechanics kill it for most casual gameplayers. The little amount of time I spent with the game hasn't left me with any desire to play more.

 

[CrushDance]

Did you play "the Creators" levels yet? I've aced the shit out of every 2D Mario game, Sonic game, countless others and some of those felt particularly harsh. It's not 'casual' friendly in the slightest.

What? You mean the creator curators or user made? Anyway, for most enemies it is a one hit K.O. but in some of the later levels, bosses and even user made levels, enemies can take multiple hits before going down.

What he said was flat out wrong.

 

[nofi]

Did you play "the Creators" levels yet? I've aced the shit out of every 2D Mario game, Sonic game, countless others and some of those felt particularly harsh. It's not 'casual' friendly in the slightest.

This. The first world is fine, anything after that is HELL for anyone not familiar with a platformer. The floaty physics don't help one bit.

 

[wolfmat]

Come on, if you're into platformers, it's pretty much a given that the physics in LBP will piss you off, at least in the first hour or so.

That alone kind of pushes the game back a couple of places - saying it doesn't end up in the Top 50 is kind of harsh though.

 

[Brashnir]

The floaty jumping mechanics kill it for most casual gameplayers. The little amount of time I spent with the game hasn't left me with any desire to play more.

I don't think the average casual player would even notice the floaty physics. That's only bothersome for us platforming veterans, with our preconceived notions about how platforming should feel.

 

[McBradders]

What? You mean the creator curators or user made? Anyway, for most enemies it is a one hit K.O. but in some of the later levels, bosses and even user made levels, enemies can take multiple hits before going down.

What he said was flat out wrong.

I think he was referring to one hit to sackboy deaths. Not enemies. The only exception is fire where it's two hits.

 

[freddy]

I don't think the average casual player would even notice the floaty physics. That's only bothersome for us platforming veterans, with our preconceived notions about how platforming should feel.

They might not equate the unnatural feel in jumping to "floaty physics" but casuals aren't stupid.

 

[wolfmat]

I don't think the average casual player would even notice the floaty physics. That's only bothersome for us platforming veterans, with our preconceived notions about how platforming should feel.

I say there are good reasons for preferring precise jumping etc.

So the notions aren't preconceived, but a result of experience. LBP not caring is a bummer in a way.

Can you alter jumping mechanics in your own levels, by the way?

 

[gofreak]

I think he was referring to one hit to sackboy deaths. Not enemies. The only exception is fire where it's two hits.

Two hits with time being a factor too, in that if the hits are seperated reasonably in time they won't kill you.

And it's only actually death in sense of a mario death, or whatever, if you've lost all your respawns at the last gate, so I don't think that is TOO unfriendly. If you die in LBP and you're not on your last spawn, you're pretty much immediately back in the game, likely not far from where you were before.

I say there are good reasons for preferring precise jumping etc.

You can jump very precisely if you want, it's a matter of skill. The range of jumping in LBP is large, that's all, but you can make small precise jumps or longer ones if you want. It's not like it's totally random how you're going to jump every time you press the button either, it's entirely predictable based on your momentum and your button press. Maybe the range of possible jump is not very noob friendly (vs a jump that's always the same no matter how hard you press the button, or your speed), but it eases you in reasonably gently in the story mode I think.

 

[Brashnir]

They might not equate the unnatural feel in jumping to "floaty physics" but casuals aren't stupid.

All platformers control unnaturally though. I'm saying that it wouldn't bother someone that it doesn't feel like other platformers if they weren't used to playing other platformers to begin with. The jumping in LBP is predictable and consistent from my experience. Any feeling of it being unnatural or odd comes from a preconceived idea of how a platformer should feel.

 

[Grayman]

I do not think that the "mass market" whatever that means would even play the game before buying it so the reason it did not sell cannot be attributed to floaty physics.

 

[Inanna]

Deliberately early pessimistic thread is early and pessimistic deliberately.

THIS!

I mean really, are you serious OP? :lol I mean wait a few months at least before calling it a huge failure.

 

[antiloop]

If it turns out to be a failure sales wise it's because of marketing approach. Simple as that.

The game itself is really good.

 

[freddy]

I do not think that the "mass market" whatever that means would even play the game before buying it so the reason it did not sell cannot be attributed to floaty physics.

It hurts word of mouth sales though which is a huge part of being a casual mega hit.

 

[Quasar]

Dunno about the rest of the world, but the marketing for this game has been dreadful in Australia.

We have TV ads for videogames? I don't think I've seen one since Halo 3.

 

[Loudninja]

Also the bulk of our marketing including our six figure TV advertising campaign doesn't roll out until December, so we genuinely believe that Sackboy hasn't even hit his stride yet."

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...-be-a-clear-number-one-any-other-time-of-year
.

 

[gofreak]

It hurts word of mouth sales though which is a huge part of being a casual mega hit.

I think if there's any significant 'floaty physics' word-of-mouth, it's in a large part due to people who probably don't even own the game, parroting anything they think will stick negatively.

I don't think that 'complaint' should, however, because it's often contradictory in its nature.

I'm guessing most people who own the game have and are enjoying it - just based on those who I know who have the game - and most word-of-mouth from those people should be probably be overwhelmingly positive.

MM and Sony could do more to help their own word of mouth, though. Exporting data to the net from day one would have been a good idea to help people show off and discuss their creations and achievements online.

 

[Nexus Zero]

It sold me on a PS3 but at the end of the day it was a £330 purchase and I can't conceive that a casual gamer would ever pay that. I can't get my consoles to work properly online either and while I love LBP single player I'm half tempted to sell my PS3 if buying a new router doesn't fix that.

 

[wolfmat]

Come on, I can SEE the floatiness of the jumping physics in videos.

And of course I prefer jumping mechanics as in Cave Story or whatever.

I don't think it's breaking the game because it gets love despite that criticism. But you can't say it's not something that you have to deal with.

 

[Snipes424]

regardless if sells a lot better or not next month, Sony's advertising is not very good at all. Advertising is the best tool for selling games and right now Sony is really behind Nintendo and Microsoft when it comes to advertising.

Hopefully they will get their shit together though

 

[Private Hoffman]

One of the most unique and amazing games I've played this gen, and definitely an awesome platformer. It's sad that some people apparently can't accept the way it controls because of something they've heard rather than something they've actually played (or if they played something that wasn't designed for the mechanic in the beta).

The story levels are brilliant and this title is right up there with Mario Galaxy for me as a product and a platformer.

As for it bombing?

Did 3x more in a few days as a new IP than Ratchet did in more than a week of sales tracking last year....it's developed by ~20 or so people.

LittleBigPlanet is a hit right off the bat. Now, whether it eventually materializes into a title that has decent legs throughout the PS3's lifespan is anyone's guess, but given the price of the system and the audience, it has done incredibly well. It's done way better than titles like Ratchet, Viva, etc. have done.

I don't see how anyone could claim it's anywhere near a bomb.

 

[worldstiniestpenis]

littlebigplanet has had fantastic marketing, and the sales are completely to be expected for the first few days of a release which was already clouded in confusion. i can promise you that it's done a lot more than 215k by now, and as long as it can keep its head above water over the christmas explosion it'll sell fantastically - especially for a game that had such a short production time, from such a small team

 

[antiloop]

It hurts word of mouth sales though which is a huge part of being a casual mega hit.

Actually physics controlled gameplay in a 2D platformer could be used as a marketing ploy.
It's something new and fresh and next-gen.

 

[DCharlie]

It's sad that some people apparently can't accept the way it controls because of something they've heard rather than something they've actually played

whuuuuuuuut?

everyone who doesn't care for the jump physics or the plane jumping doesn't like it because they've only played the demo/not played it/just heard about it?

It's not a game breaker, it just could be a bit better. It's not about accepting it, it's about possibly getting it tweaked a bit.

For me personally, as a single player game it is good, as a multiplayer game it is brilliant.

and yeah, the jumping isn't my cup of tea.

 

[maniac-kun]

don't know how it is somewhere else but most times you see a game commercial on TV here in Germany its a 360 one even if the advertised game is multiplattform so its Sonys fault for poor advertising but like someone said lpb has like 5 different German TV spots but they don't deliver the message to the masses.

 

[Nathan Rain]

Actually physics controlled gameplay in a 2D platformer could be used as a marketing ploy.
It's something new and fresh and next-gen.

Those are just buzzwords though, what really matters is HOW they're used.

 

[gantz85]

Did the game not get that many days of sale on NPD? And secondly: Sony has the worst marketing I have EVER seen from any of the 3 companies. Anytime I see a 360 commercial it showcases the games, price(now), and people having fun together.

I've said it before, fire the shit that is Scott Steinburg or whatever. Sony have a serious problem with marketing and hype.

 

[wolfmat]

don't know how it is somewhere else but most times you see a game commercial on TV here in Germany its a 360 one even if the advertised game is multiplattform so its Sonys fault for poor advertising but like someone said lpb has like 5 different German TV spots but they don't deliver the message to the masses.

Zero Punctuation, eh? Geeze man..

Didn't see the german ads, got rid of TV years ago, but the quality of TV advertising is of course a big factor regarding mass market appeal.

 

[gofreak]

Come on, I can SEE the floatiness of the jumping physics in videos.

And of course I prefer jumping mechanics as in Cave Story or whatever.

I don't think it's breaking the game because it gets love despite that criticism. But you can't say it's not something that you have to deal with.

The physics are a part of the game, just like anything in any game you 'deal with'. I don't think it's a negative though, I don't see it as something I have to put up with I can see why some people think it's a negative if they prefer single-variable jumping, but LBP's jumping works fine in LBP. I'm not sure it would feel right to have sackboy jumping statically given the dynamic and physical nature of his world. Of those who I know in real life who have the game, none have remarked on it at all either negatively or positively. For them it's just a part of the game that goes without saying, and they didn't have any preconceptions about what it should or shouldn't be going into it, I guess.

I think there are those who genuinely don't like that in LBP, who are very used to single-variable jumping in platformers. I'm just saying I think there are also some who're simply parroting that for negativity's sake.

edit - plane switching is something else entirely. If that can be tweaked, then yeah, it should be tweaked. Although I have to say it's not something that conciously sticks out at me any more. For new-comers it is something they unnecessarily have to adjust to though.

WRT sales, I don't think any of these things are an issue at all. It's down to how well Sony pitch the game and cost-of-entry for non-PS3 owners, tbh.

 

[Burai]

Come on, if you're into platformers, it's pretty much a given that the physics in LBP will piss you off, at least in the first hour or so.

That alone kind of pushes the game back a couple of places - saying it doesn't end up in the Top 50 is kind of harsh though.

Considering just how many 2D platformers there have been over the years, I think it's not entirely unfair to say that LBP couldn't trouble the top 50. You could probably name 50 better on the NES alone.

As a platformer it really does leave a lot to be desired when you hit later levels. It's just not tight enough.

 

[fresquito]

I guess it's hard for PS3 fans to swallow, but just like some pointed, the main problem for LBP is the PS3.

- PS3 is too expensive.
- PS3 has been aimed at the tech-fanatic people.
- Tech-fanatic people don't give a damn about the charming sackboy.

PS3 is not mass market. In fact you would say i's quite the opposite. LBP can never be mass makrt as long as the PS3 isn't.

 

[DCharlie]

I think there are those who genuinely don't like that in LBP, who are very used to single-variable jumping in platformers. I'm just saying I think there are also some who're simply parroting that for negativity's sake.

it would be great if it was customisable for custom levels though - i tried to make MM/JSW levels, but it just felt wrong, and using the grid system was putting jumps just out of reach etc.

The jumping isn't that bad, but the plane shifting is fidgetty and a little unhelpful at times. I understand why the game does it in order to keep the plane shifting as helpful to casual players, but it can frustrate. Perhaps an option to just allow you to plane shift and let people just die/take the consequences would have been good?

 

[FoxSpirit]

Give it time, people, the Sims was also off to a slow start.

Of course it's more easy to sell a "I make people's head explode and steal stuff while they still like me game" than a "make your own super creative jump n run stages" game.

If it's still bomba in 6 months, then ok. I expect this get mostly get around by word of mouth, so I will wait till then.

 

[DCharlie]

Give it time, people, the Sims was also off to a slow start.

woooooooah there.
I assume you aren't suggesting Sims level success for LBP because if you are, um, you might want to sit down for a bit as i have some bad news

 

[Tieno]

badass

 

[gofreak]

it would be great if it was customisable for custom levels though - i tried to make MM/JSW levels, but it just felt wrong, and using the grid system was putting jumps just out of reach etc.

I'm still split on whether customisation of gravity or jump physics would be a good or bad thing.

On the one hand, it'd leave little for anyone to complain about wrt physics.

On the other, it could make it less friendly for people if the rules are completely reset in every level they go into. Maybe that wouldn't be a big problem though, I dunno..

The jumping isn't that bad, but the plane shifting is fidgetty and a little unhelpful at times. I understand why the game does it in order to keep the plane shifting as helpful to casual players, but it can frustrate. Perhaps an option to just allow you to plane shift and let people just die/take the consequences would have been good?

A toggle for purely manual plane shifting would be a nice option. Any levels would still work with either system, so I can't see that being objectionable.

 

[gantz85]

woooooooah there.
I assume you aren't suggesting Sims level success for LBP because if you are, um, you might want to sit down for a bit as i have some bad news

 

[Woo-Fu]

while I was shaving today I had a thought: what if all the money we spent on marketing all the various competing shaver technology we spent on just making a better razor for everybody?

Is that a socialist idea, or just common fucking sense?

This entire console war is the same argument. A metric fuckload of money spent when all of it could just be spent on better games instead of competing hardware. I suppose this is as close as I've come to the 1 platform point of view, at lease in wishing if not in believing.