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[Deleted member 1235]

Well... it shows. There are some user levels that are simply ingenius. Borrow the game and play a few levels suggested in the USER LEVEL lbp thread here in neogaf. You'll take back everything you've said.

But you're right, Sony's at fault here and noone else. MM did a tremendous job with the game yet Sony failed them like they've did with every other developer they've published games for.

It was supposed to show though.

I don't have a PS3, but I follow news of the 'big games' on all platforms should my tastes change (full disclosure, sold wii, got xbox, hate rabid fans of all systems).

However, LBP failed to interest me at all. From the marketing I saw it looked like buying a really nice engine and possibly being able to create the next mario.

I'd rather buy the next mario.

I understand many people will have a blast with this game and its production values look excellent, but it seems sony was trying to create the next big genre, like nintendo did with wii sports (god I hate what that game started) but it's obvious from the outset that the concept will immediately be ignored by people with my mindset.

 

[Synth_floyd]

I have no idea what this game is about and why it is supposed to be so revolutionary. I know it has sack boy and you can create levels but how is this such a revolutionary game? I remember someone else created a "what's the big deal about LBP?" thread a little while ago and no body explained to him, people were just being asses and saying "you don't get it? hahahaha! loser. it's the best game ever to exist" and arrogant stuff like that. From the little I've heard about it it doesn't seem that interesting. Just a cute platformer that lets you create levels.

 

[Won]

According to the commercials I saw, the game is all about blowing up your neighbor's dog and killing your ex-girlfriend. Kinda weird.

Nintendo does a better job selling Wii Music than Sony does with LBP, at least for me, who doesn't have any interest in Wii Music at all and just no time for a game like LBP.

 

[Raist]

LBP bombed ?

Having complex creative elements never withheld Forza 2 from having millions of custom-made cars and about as many cars sold on the ingame auction house. Also sold millions of copies, including bundles (also goes for LBP).

But Forza 2 was at its core a good game. LBP is lacking in that regard. Lack of marketing-clarity is also hurting a confuses demographic.

:lol
Spot on comparison right there
And yeah, LBP is a bad game, uarerite

 

[deftangel]

As good as LittleBigPlanet is ( I love it! ) the problems are thus;

* It was never ever going to live up to the daft "wait for...." style expectations
* It's mass market appeal is vastly over-stated
* The delay and subsequent missed release window hurt it quite significantly.

It's an excellent game and creatively, MM have knocked it out the park but it's going to get flattened in this months NPD considering the other competition.

That said, I still think it will shift a decent amount of copies but anything north of 1m is unrealistic. That in itself is not a failure and shouldn't be painted as such. Sony and associates hyping this up to be some kind of PS3 messiah on the other hand, yeah...

 

[wolfmat]

Forza 2 is a realistic nextgen racing game on the X360. Kind of an instant win, regardless of neat features.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I read about half of the first page of this thread before literally feeling compelled to click "post reply" to post this message to declare how boring this thread is.

 

[SonOfABeep]

you could call the game a system de-seller in my case. I was on the fence about ditching the ps3 before the lbp beta. Poor basic game mechanics and dull, derivative user made levels.. Ugh.

Lbp was the last straw for my ps3. I got it for mgs4, and that was a disappointment, followed by months of nothing and playing older, but still lackluster exclusives. Motorstorm was the only game I really enjoyed. Mostly because it was $10.

Not trying to push an agenda here or start trouble. This is my own experience and not yours. I was very disappointed in lbp and ps3. Excuses, excuses.. That's the way it was for at least one of Sony's customers.

 

[Model 500]

I think people should wait for a few months before declaring this as 'bomba', I think the christmas sales will tell us a lot.

From my pow, there are two main reasons why this is going to have a hard time selling machines for the not yet reached masses:

1) It's a side scrolling platformer.
2) The marketing (at least in Finland) focuses on the user generated content, and the world is just not ready yet.

Personally, I pretty much love the level editor, but the story mode has left me a bit cold. I don't like the limited move-set of the main character, the extra "dimensions" of the level, the jumping, and the level design has not been too inspiring either (to be fair, I've put only 4-5 hours to the story mode). For most of the cases I do like how the physics work with the objects, this is definitely a way forward in the genre, and I really like the online co-op mode. I will definitely get back to the online co-op and the level editor when I'm done playing my other games..

 

[Phife Dawg]

WAT. It's the best 2D platformer ever.

It's so good it's like pure sex I have been told.

It already hasn't actually "bombed." I mean, it didn't light the sales charts on fire, but it did chart in a pretty congested month. The only thing it could really be considered a bomb next to would be the enormous expectations of some GAFers, or in the minds of those with some sort of all-or-nothing disorder.

Sony were the ones with the enormous expectations and thus far it has fallen flat judged by those. Judging by the weekly performance in other territories there's no hint of it showing the kinds of legs that are necessary to achieve these goals through the course of the following months too.

Of course there's also the systemwars to consider, fanboys are always fast to proclaim bombas. Fanboys on the other "side" then defend and give reasons why it's not such a thing.

I think he meant in terms of marketing push..

I don't think so..

LittleBigPlanet is going to be the biggest title for Sony in all markets this year. History tells us how difficult it is for games developed in Europe or in the US to be successful in Japan, and with this generation we see Japanese consumer supporting more and more games coming from western Europe.

Unless of course with successful he meant "successful marketing campaign". Sony had or still has very high expectations for this title. Here in Germany they're pushing it very hard both in-store and on TV. There are lots of good titles that don't light the charts on fire although they had huge expectations, it's not that big of a deal really.

Give it time, people, the Sims was also off to a slow start.

Of course it's more easy to sell a "I make people's head explode and steal stuff while they still like me game" than a "make your own super creative jump n run stages" game.

If it's still bomba in 6 months, then ok. I expect this get mostly get around by word of mouth, so I will wait till then.

Sony had unreasonably high expectations for the title, people should stop having even higher expectations. One of the major differences between this and the Sims (on top of being two fundamentally different games) is that almost everyone has a PC that's able to run the Sims, yet not everyone has a PS3.

Sony marketing is PATHETIC. That's the main problem and it will always be this generation with PS3 games since Sony doesn't seem to learn their lesson. Same thing happened with Uncharted,

It's funny because both Uncharted and LBP have/had huge TV marketing campaigns here in Germany. I thought the Uncharted ads were better, if a bit uninspired (LBP ads are too) but unlike LBP Uncharted never charted at launch. LBP debuted at No. 1 here.

 

[Jinfash]

Wow talk about baiting, the OP just cut and run and everyone is taking the bait.

I don't care, I wanted to talk about this issue. LBP is my game of the year, unfortunately it revolves around the online component, so if it bombs and people stops playing and the support ceases, I wouldn't get my money's worth.

Though this is still far from happening anytime soon.

This tbh.

I honestly can't believe people are talking about this game in past tenths already as a failed hit, what are the estimated 'world' sales of this game so far ?

It didn't bomb yet, but with the way things are going... and that's what this discussion is all about.

I have no idea what this game is about and why it is supposed to be so revolutionary. I know it has sack boy and you can create levels but how is this such a revolutionary game? I remember someone else created a "what's the big deal about LBP?" thread a little while ago and no body explained to him, people were just being asses and saying "you don't get it? hahahaha! loser. it's the best game ever to exist" and arrogant stuff like that. From the little I've heard about it it doesn't seem that interesting. Just a cute platformer that lets you create levels.

TBH that's one of the problems of the game, you can't describe what exactly is. Even if you use the right words, you have to try it.

That's the biggest challenge Sony is facing, and it's obvious from the Ads they've released.

 

[wolfmat]

It's funny because both Uncharted and LBP have/had huge TV marketing campaigns here in Germany. I thought the Uncharted ads were better, if a bit uninspired (LBP ads are too) but unlike LBP Uncharted never charted at launch. LBP debuted at No. 1 here.

I'd say they have Leipzig and general games awareness over here to thank for that. Also, DE loves the PS3.

 

[antiloop]

I have no idea what this game is about and why it is supposed to be so revolutionary. I know it has sack boy and you can create levels but how is this such a revolutionary game? I remember someone else created a "what's the big deal about LBP?" thread a little while ago and no body explained to him, people were just being asses and saying "you don't get it? hahahaha! loser. it's the best game ever to exist" and arrogant stuff like that. From the little I've heard about it it doesn't seem that interesting. Just a cute platformer that lets you create levels.

Makes me remember last GDC when it was unveiled. Talk in previews about how every person there had this big grin. About the funny sackboys and the first trailer with the awesome moody music.

I think that's when the magic happened, it was just fresh. How you could play together with 4 friends and how you could degin your own levels and copy levels from old platformers. A real 2.5D next-gen platformer just about having fun together. That old "Mario" feeling.

Now it's out and that magic is gone, but the game is good. It's just not enough for most people. (it seems?)

 

[Loudninja]

Makes me remember last GDC when it was unveiled. Talk in previews about how every person there had this big grin. About the funny sackboys and the first trailer with the awesome moody music.

I think that's when the magic happened, it was just fresh. How you could play together with 4 friends and how you could degin your own levels and copy levels from old platformers. A real 2.5D next-gen platformer just about having fun.

Now it's out and that magic is gone, but the game is good. It's just not enough for most people. (it seems?)

Base on what?

 

[CrushDance]

Well the SDF was quick to point out the NPD side of the debate while ignoring Japan and Europe, nice work.

In the UK at least LBP has bombed, why? Because it hasn't been advertised, anyone wtaching the TV these last few weeks will have seen tonnes of ads for Xbox 360 and Wii games on the "main" channels (BBC/ITV/CH4/Sky) where-as I haven't seen a PS3 ad, let alone one for LBP.

This isn't a case of "confused" advertising, it's a case of NO advertising, and word of mouth will not save it here, unless the hype train is started by serious prime time advertising, LBP is dead in the UK.

If everyone is part of the SDF, then what are you? Some unbiased poster?:lol

 

[antiloop]

Base on what?

This thread.. just ;(

Although it's GAF so.. But the first LBP thread was so much more positive.

 

[AmMortal]

I think an integral part of GAF, already somehow perdicted this.

Unfortunately, games so innovative are really difficult to elaborate to the masses. Couple that with the poor marketing display of Sony, ( up until this new campaign was introduced, which is kinda good), and it's very clear why.

Also, the PS3, is just too damn expensive for people, credit crunch is hitting the economy hard here in Europe. It's not that hard to imagine people, "laying off" on the extra expenses, at least till X-mas.


However, the UK for instance, where I live, is in a recession now? ( i haven't been following the news at all lately). That could be a definite black mark for sales all around

I really hoped LBP sold well, I really like it.

 

[Chinner]

LBP is doing great according to my insider source and you have to remember it was only in for 4 days of the NPD. Everybody knows that game sales are not front loaded. For example, despite selling about 8 million copies Halo 3 only sold about 700k in the first 4 days.

 

[nofi]

However, the UK for instance, where I live, is in a recession now? ( i haven't been following the news at all lately).

Wow. You don't own a TV?

 

[AmMortal]

Wow. You don't own a TV?

No not anymore, I ceased my contract with Virgin, after a bit of a misunderstanding.

I only have internet now.

 

[Model 500]

I can see why some people think it's a negative if they prefer single-variable jumping, but LBP's jumping works fine in LBP. I'm not sure it would feel right to have sackboy jumping statically given the dynamic and physical nature of his world.

What do you mean by single-variable jumping?

 

[Synth_floyd]

TBH that's one of the problems of the game, you can't describe what exactly is. Even if you use the right words, you have to try it.

SO TRY AND DESCRIBE IT. Right now I'm not interested in this game at all and scratching my head at what it's about and when people say "you'll feel all magical and rainbows and ponies when you go play it" my interest in the game does not increase. This isn't a drug, it's a videogame. Use the English language and tell me what it's about.

 

[wolfmat]

Wow. You don't own a TV?

You might not be aware of it, but a fuckton of people stopped watching TV in the last years all over the world. But I digress.

 

[Crayon]

its too unique its too demanding its too smart its too good to be pop.

this happens with every other medium as well. its fine if it happens in videogames too.

there was a time when i thought that lbp was going to set the world on fire but after getting my hands on the final product i can see that it is for people who really love videogames. its never going to be donkey kong country, gears of war or the beatles. that's okay it doesn't need to be validated.

all i care about it is that i have it. and that wowbagger has it; because i browse levels off his hearted list.

 

[AmMortal]

You might not be aware of it, but a fuckton of people stopped watching TV in the last years all over the world. But I digress.

True, the internet killed the Tvstar.

 

[JimiNutz]

Because the PS3 is WAYYYYYYYY overpriced for the mass market.
I predicted this way back and remember many Gaffers stating that people would pay whatever it takes to play LBP :lol
The game may be amazing, but more casual gamers aren't willing to spend that amount just to play one game.
The good news is that I think the game will have legs, and will probably sell a lot more once Sony slash the price of their console.

 

[Barrett2]

IMO, this game will not have legs unless MM significantly overhauls the online functionality. It is a tedious and sloppy experience every time I play user-created levels. I am so sick and tired of randomly flipping through levels to see what I have and have not played.

As for the game's sales, I guarantee it will not be in the top 10 for November NPD. As good as the game is, it has zero recognition or buzz outside of the hardcore community, based on my anecdotal observations.

 

[wolfmat]

True, the internet killed the Tvstar.

For me, the only reason for TV to exist is to fabricate a common sense that's convenient for the rich and to sell products in general. The internet is the better alternative in every way.

 

[fortified_concept]

What do you mean by single-variable jumping?

LBP's jump depends on the time you press the jump button and the speed the sackboy is running.

 

[AmMortal]

For me, the only reason for TV to exist is to fabricate a common sense that's convenient for the rich and to sell products in general. The internet is the better alternative in every way.

I couldn't agree more, plus the internet elminates illiteracy.

 

[freethought]

Well the SDF was quick to point out the NPD side of the debate while ignoring Japan and Europe, nice work.

In the UK at least LBP has bombed, why? Because it hasn't been advertised, anyone wtaching the TV these last few weeks will have seen tonnes of ads for Xbox 360 and Wii games on the "main" channels (BBC/ITV/CH4/Sky) where-as I haven't seen a PS3 ad, let alone one for LBP.

This isn't a case of "confused" advertising, it's a case of NO advertising, and word of mouth will not save it here, unless the hype train is started by serious prime time advertising, LBP is dead in the UK.

It was number 2 in the charts on the week of release. Sure it dropped off pretty quick but I fail to see how having the second best selling game in the week Gears 2 came out is bombing. Not performing to Sony's expectations? Yes. Bombing? Not quite.

 

[CoLaN]

People who said "LBP has poor controls" clearly didn't spend much time playing it.

It's physics based, only after few hours with it you fully appreciate how it controls; and imho they are awesome and very precise. It's just sad that those days gamers desire the same type of controls on every game, so they can get instant-gratification.

 

[Fafalada]

The floaty jumping mechanics kill it for most casual gameplayers.

If casual players are so hardcore on the jumping mechanics, why is it that Lego games are so popular with floating and sliding jumping mechanics that is only worse.

This. The first world is fine, anything after that is HELL for anyone not familiar with a platformer.

I got to the last level playing together with an inexperienced co-player, with very little difficulty (we've completed vast majority of levels on first try). On the flipside I've never made it past level 2-3 on any of those other platformers mentioned in the post you replied to - ie. I freely admit I'm pretty damn bad with platforming games in general.
Actually the only people I've seen complaining about game's difficulty(or controls) to date are those who had lots of experience with platformers.

 

[westical]

For example, despite selling about 8 million copies Halo 3 only sold about 700k in the first 4 days.

Source? And don't say your insider.

 

[Achtius]

Most of my friends who played it love it, but they are too cheap to get a PS3.

 

[wolfmat]

Not performing to Sony's expectations? Yes.

♪ Lowered Expectationsss ♬

 

[Shogmaster]

For the type of game it is, 200k+ in 4 days is phenomenal sales IMO. I don't think it's BOMBA by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Barrett2]

Most of my friends who played it love it, but they are too cheap to get a PS3.

This really can't be overstated. In the current economic climate, many casual buyers are simply not looking for a $400 gaming system. The PS3 is just too expensive for the casual customer looking for a console this fall. PS3 hardware is going to get KILLED in November NPD.

 

[fortified_concept]

People who said "LBP has poor controls" clearly didn't spend much time playing it.

It's physics based, only after few hours with it you fully appreciate how it controls; and imho they are awesome and very precise. It's just sad that those days gamers desire the same type of controls on every game, so they can get instant-gratification.

This or they copy-paste trolling talking points as per usual and they haven't even played the game at all.

It's not one of these game that I can describe to you how to make the perfect jump becuase the game is physics based so the rules determining how long the jump is are complex. But you definately learn how to make a perfect jump after a few hours from experience.

This jump argument is overused and completely wrong.

 

[Loudninja]

For the type of game it is, 200k+ in 4 days is phenomenal sales IMO. I don't think it's BOMBA by any stretch of the imagination.

Its really not especially with the recalled, and the slight delayed.

 

[MidiSurf]

For example, despite selling about 8 million copies Halo 3 only sold about 700k in the first 4 days.

Halo 3 first day sales were around $170 million and was biggest entertainment launch in history. 700k four day sales don't add. It even took 1.7 million copies in preorder sales.

 

[Jinfash]

SO TRY AND DESCRIBE IT. Right now I'm not interested in this game at all and scratching my head at what it's about and when people say "you'll feel all magical and rainbows and ponies when you go play it" my interest in the game does not increase. This isn't a drug, it's a videogame. Use the English language and tell me what it's about.

ok, I'll give you the most basic description:

LBP is physics driven 3D sidescroller at its core.
It comes with an expansive level editor and pre-created levels for inspiration.
Strong multiplayer and online components to let everyone play and share their creations.

that's it.

The big problem here is that those words don't do the game any justice, it makes it sound "ok" at best. You have to try the game for yourself, that's what everyone who own the game are saying, and that's what everyone who don't own it hate so much to hear.

 

[Mantorok]

Uh, did Sony actually indicate that they expected this to hit mass-market?

If that's the case then they've mis-judged badly, this 'does not' have mass-market written all of it, no siree.

 

[Oliver.S]

This or they copy-paste trolling talking points as per usual and they haven't even played the game at all.

That's typical fanboy bs. I have played the game for more than 30 hours, created two levels and still have problems with the controls (and the "squeeze deaths"..).

 

[Phife Dawg]

I'd say they have Leipzig and general games awareness over here to thank for that. Also, DE loves the PS3.

DE loves the DS, but that's a different story. My point was just that marketing is not everything, you can push a game all you want, if it doesn't click with the market you won't get a huge hit out of it. I don't think marketing is necessarily LBP's biggest problem.

Halo 3 first day sales were around $170 million and was biggest entertainment launch in history. 700k four day sales don't add. It even took 1.7 million copies in preorder sales.

I think (hope) he was being sarcastic.

 

[Burai]

For the type of game it is, 200k+ in 4 days is phenomenal sales IMO. I don't think it's BOMBA by any stretch of the imagination.

Absolutely. It's a niche game on the least popular console and it did about as much as could be expected. We've seen Microsoft struggle to sell Rare's games on the 360, so this was hardly going to be any different, especially considering that the concept is pretty hard to get across in advertisements.

That Sony expected it to sell gangbusters and carry their overpriced console through the holidays is their own stupid fault.

 

[Won]

This or they copy-paste trolling talking points as per usual and they haven't even played the game at all.

It's not one of these game that I can describe to you how to make the perfect jump becuase the game is physics based so the rules determining how long the jump is are complex. But you definately learn how to make a perfect jump after a few hours from experience.

This jump argument is overused and completely wrong.

Saying that you need a "few hours" to learn to do a perfect jump in a jump&run, is not exactly a pro argument for the controls.

 

[DCharlie]

If casual players are so hardcore on the jumping mechanics, why is it that Lego games are so popular with floating and sliding jumping mechanics that is only worse.

Lego games have infiinte lives?

 

[deadatom]

Come on, I can SEE the floatiness of the jumping physics in videos.

And of course I prefer jumping mechanics as in Cave Story or whatever.

I don't think it's breaking the game because it gets love despite that criticism. But you can't say it's not something that you have to deal with.

but can you feel it? oh wait.. you have only seen it in videos... the "floatiness" is surely something YOU dont have to deal with since you seem to have never played the game...

My only qualms with the game i bought, own, and have played a bit is that i thought it would
a: have web 2.0 integration
b: let people import thier own sounds and images directly (i heard they already had such tools but sony nixed it due to copyright worries)
c: have 2d platforming brick and mortar basics like running and power ups..


Anyways those problem i see(not a huge deal breaker) are besides the point of why its not selling well in my opinion. I bet the reason its not selling well is because THE WORLD-WIDE ECONOMY SUCKS.

 

[freethought]

Uh, did Sony actually indicate that they expected this to hit mass-market?

If that's the case then they've mis-judged badly, this 'does not' have mass-market written all of it, no siree.

What does mass-market even mean in this context? Gran Turismo is one of the best selling franchises on consoles, as is GTA. But these games sell to a very different demographic than Nintendogs, Brain Training or Wii fit.

At this point I wouldn't have been surprised if LBP had sold millions because I'm not really sure what's required to take a game to the mass-market. It doesn't necessarily imply the casual market Nintendo are going after. Halo and GTA sales are testament to that.

I'm still in the camp that thinks the PS3 price is one of, if not the biggest obstacle to LBP, others being Sony's woeful marketing and maybe, maybe the discrepancy between the accessible art style and the relatively complex creation tools. But, I can't really talk since I've yet to actually buy the game (tomorrow, I promise).