LIZARD SQUAD is Back. Planning XBL Attack. "Biggest attack yet". [UP: XBL/PSN Down]

Dunk#7 said:
Did you read it at all?

I will copy and paste the section he bolded:

As far as permitted by law, we are not responsible or liable for nor do we give warranty or representation in relation to:
(i)The quality, functionality, availability, completeness, accuracy or performance of the SEN or its products;
(ii)Any errors, bugs or viruses in, or malicious use of, the SEN or its products;


That says exactly what you want 100%
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Yes I read it and it's all up to interpretation. Nothing there changes my opinion that an attack on the network isn't specifically covered under this TOS or implied. They were attacked the network went down Rees no malicious use of the network because the network for most people is down so there's nothing to maliciously use the SEN for. I'm guessing you thought "malicious use" was the legal speak I was looking for but its not. Again if it's not specifically in the contract it also isn't implied and therefore not covered. Thank you for your opinion have a great day.
 
JohnF76 said:
Why not use something like Blizzard's WOW/Starcraft II/Diablo III's system of torrent to download system updates/Licenses? Sony could offer discounted PSN for users who contribute bandwith as well. This would make it difficult for the Zombie PCs...you'd have millions of PC's out there they would have to try and DDOS, instead of just a few centralized servers. In effect, instead of the one "doorbell", you'd have a massive game of "Whack-a-Mole"!
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Amen!

I've been saying this for a long time. Companies ought to embrace scalable, p2p networking infrastructures. Fuck dedicated servers/centralization.

Septimius said:
There are many reasons, but all in all, even if we had this system in place, PSN would still be down today. You can't authenticate via "torrent network". It's the auth servers that are down.
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Do you know how the Bitcoin network works?
 
njean777 said:
Can somebody explain to me why sony doesnt have better servers? Xbox Live was up maybe an hour after the attacks, but Sony's haven't been up for 2 days now.
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...not sure if it's worth replying, but PSN was up all of today until very recently. And XBL was down for more than an hour... not that it's a competition.
Lrrr said:
Clearly not what I said.
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It clearly isn't clear since at least 3 posters have responded trying to understand what you are asking for :P
You still haven't explained either.
 
cakely said:
This post is inaccurate, unhelpful, and if you've read the thread, incredibly redundant.
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Sorry, but me being on live and playing are not inaccurate, and no amount of help You or I can offer will fix psn. So yeah, and it was a serious question. So instead of being rude maybe you should lay off and take a chill pill.
 
tapantaola said:
Do you know how the Bitcoin network works?
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No, but I can't imagine any company would give authentication up to a decentralized solution. You can get many things from Blizzard via a torrent network, but you still need to authenticate with their servers.

Copen said:
Yes I read it and it's all up to interpretation. Nothing there changes my opinion that an attack on the network isn't specifically covered under this TOS or implied. They were attacked the network went down Rees no malicious use of the network because the network for most people is down so there's nothing to maliciously use the SEN for. I'm guessing you thought "malicious use" was the legal speak I was looking for but its not. Again if it's not specifically in the contract it also isn't implied and therefore not covered. Thank you for your opinion have a great day.
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Your tone is horribly condescending. Your "I'm right by default" attitude helps no one. The point you're looking for is "(i)", specifically the part that says "we are not responsible or liable for nor do we give warranty or representation in relation to" "(i) [...] availability", or to sum it up for you, the TOS specifically states that "we are not responsible or liable for nor do we give warranty or representation if the service is unavailable"
 
anyone know if GFWL is affected? I'm trying to do a bunch of bullshit to get the PC Port of Dark Souls to run, but GFWL won't install. I'm hoping this is related to the attacks bringing it down or something, and not to me being an idiot.

it's probably me being an idiot
 
Septimius said:
Live is down, now. But, MS has a much more vast infrastructure. In a nutshell, that's why.
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Live is not down, now. If you're going off that status page, then that would be the source of your mistake. Live is up, right now.

My PS4 has been moved to the Corner of Shame. We're taking turns hurling insults at it. It seems unfazed, but we'll break her.
 
Septimius said:
No, but I can't imagine any company would give authentication up to a decentralized solution. You can get many things from Blizzard via a torrent network, but you still need to authenticate with their servers.
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Yeah, I see your point. It's the same reason central banks don't want to embrace cryptocurrencies.

I'm not interested in centralized solutions if they're prone to failure by 14-year old, pimple-faced script kiddies. I'd rather have something decentralized and free.
 
njean777 said:
Sorry, but me being on live and playing are not inaccurate, and no amount of help You or I can offer will fix psn. So yeah, and it was a serious question. So instead of being rude maybe you should lay off and take a chill pill.
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XBL was down for more than an hour, your post is still inaccurate, you question was not helpful, and I'm sure you're not actually "sorry", either.
 
Holy shit just hit my bfstats page by accident and it showed 2,000 players playing on PS4. I'm guessing things are still running horribly. Been out all day.
 
I guess I should feel "lucky" that I was finally able to create a new account this morning about 5 AM after trying 5634235 times all night and then also able to get into the store and buy/download a few games. Still wasn't able to cash in my code for free FAR CRY 4 but I guess I have enough to keep me busy for awhile.
 
Septimius said:
Let me point out how you're contradicting yourself. Sony has stated that they are not guaranteeing that their service will always be up, and give you no warranty that it will be. It's now not up. You are not covered by any warranty when that happens. That's specific. But, more ironically, you say that they need to be specific, but not very specific. They are specific. They say the service might be down. It is. That's very accurate. They say they do not give you a warranty in the case that it goes down. That covers this. So, your contraction serves no purpose. You say that when they say "we do not give you a warranty for the service always being up" isn't specific enough, but that "an attack" is specific enough, but that it doesn't have to be more specific than that. And you're trying to argue that my arguments shift to fit my narrative?
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Again my argument hasn't changed yet yours has just read back to verify. He network being down for normal operations is completely different from it being compromised and down. So you're basically stating there's no difference between normal maintenance and being attacked or hacked and I don't see it that way. Yet you changed your argument to say well okay if it never comes back up then you're entitled to compensation. That's double talk that's contradicting yourself those are your words not mine. So don't be a hypocrite okay you changed your argument when I said if it was down indefinitely nobody is entitled to compensation. Fine that's how you feel good for you I'm entitled to MY opinion even if it doesn't match yours and you and everyone else attacking me for a different opinion doesn't look favorably on you or anyone else. You don't have to like it as I don't like your opinion but I respect you have your own opinion though I disagree end of story.
 
Septimius said:
No, but I can't imagine any company would give authentication up to a decentralized solution. You can get many things from Blizzard via a torrent network, but you still need to authenticate with their servers.



Your tone is horribly condescending. Your "I'm right by default" attitude helps no one. The point you're looking for is "(i)", specifically the part that says "we are not responsible or liable for nor do we give warranty or representation in relation to" "(i) [...] availability", or to sum it up for you, the TOS specifically states that "we are not responsible or liable for nor do we give warranty or representation if the service is unavailable"
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Drop it, he "won" the debate because nowhere in the TOS the word "Attack" appears. He honestly think Sony, after been Hacked some years ago, forgot to include this type of problems in the TOS.

XBLIVE TOS also doesnt say anything about it, guess MS can be sued too.
 
cakely said:
XBL was down for more than an hour, your post is still inaccurate, you question was not helpful, and I'm sure you're not actually "sorry", either.
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No I wasn't sorry to you, I wouldn't be after you acted like you did. Who would? You came in an assumed things like an ignorant person and didn't answer my question. Others did and I thank them, but you decided to act like a rude person. That is fine, but you are on ignore now.
 
Copen said:
Again my argument hasn't changed yet yours has just read back to verify. He network being down for normal operations is completely different from it being compromised and down. So you're basically stating there's no difference between normal maintenance and being attacked or hacked and I don't see it that way.
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I'll just stop here. The TOS says that the service might be down. It does not say it has anything to do with maintenance or not. The rest seems to fall flat because of the misunderstanding of that.

Caja 117 said:
Drop it, he "won" the debate because nowhere in the TOS the word "Attack" appears. He honestly think Sony, after been Hacked some years ago, forgot to include this type of problems in the TOS.
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There seems to be some serious reading comprehension problems at work. When the TOS says "the service might be down, and you won't get compensated, nor are we liable", he doesn't think it implies if the service is down.
 
Septimius said:
No, but I can't imagine any company would give authentication up to a decentralized solution. You can get many things from Blizzard via a torrent network, but you still need to authenticate with their servers.



Your tone is horribly condescending. Your "I'm right by default" attitude helps no one. The point you're looking for is "(i)", specifically the part that says "we are not responsible or liable for nor do we give warranty or representation in relation to" "(i) [...] availability", or to sum it up for you, the TOS specifically states that "we are not responsible or liable for nor do we give warranty or representation if the service is unavailable"
Click to expand...



So you can interpret tone over a forum now? It's all about perception and if you choose to think negatively of my opinion then so be it that's your problem. I have a different opinion and while I disagree with you I respect your opinion the least you could do is do the same. Have a great day.
 
Killer Instinct keeps disconnecting me in the middle of ranked matches, happens everytime.

Is it this or just me fucking around with my router too much?
 
Septimius said:
But that's a communal process. It seems very unfair to compare a service, which will always in many regards be centralized, with something that is decentralized by definition, like currency.
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True but if it can be done well and securely with currency than you would think that other less critical services could do it just as well.
 
Septimius said:
Live is down, now. But, MS has a much more vast infrastructure. In a nutshell, that's why.
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Will people fuck off saying this.

Live is up for some, maybe the majority but not for everybody. Live currently has less users to deal with. MS is a massive server provider who marketed "UNLIMITED CLOUD POWER!" only to have their pants pulled down as quick if not quicker then their competitor who isn't.


PSN is up for some maybe the minority but not for everybody. PSN currently has more users to deal with. Sony depends on server providers and numerous third parties to provide their solution who all need to be co-ordinated with to get things back up and running and seem to be not that far behind the massive server provider competitor.

K?
 
Well I was able to get on, but its wonky, running slow, and friends aren't showing. My cousin reported the same for his ps4 but his xbo isn't connecting
 
kitch9 said:
Will people fuck off saying this.

Live is up for some, maybe the majority but not for everybody.


PSN is up for some maybe the minority but not for everybody.

K?
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So how are you quantifying this majority and minority?
 
ThatGuyAgain said:
True. If it can be done well and securely with currency than you would think that other less critical services could do it just as well.
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No. A currency only has a communal value. That's the way economics work. You can't "lie" with a currency. As such, the veracity of the currency DEPENDS on its decentralization. A service works conversely, where a product and service is developed, centralized, and presented for a value, not decentralized. There's no redundancy with authenticity or authorization as you have with a currency. It's kind of like the "you wouldn't STEAL a car"-commercial, where it should really say "you wouldn't DOWNLOAD a car". In currency standards, there is a communal need to uphold the veracity of the currency holders. In a service system, why not just give the product to everyone? Your product won't be worth less because of it.
 
kitch9 said:
Will people fuck off saying this.

Live is up for some, maybe the majority but not for everybody. Live currently has less users to deal with.


PSN is up for some maybe the minority but not for everybody. PSN currently has more users to deal with.

K?
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This doesn't make any type of sense though
 
kitch9 said:
Will people fuck off saying this.

Live is up for some, maybe the majority but not for everybody. Live currently has less users to deal with.


PSN is up for some maybe the minority but not for everybody. PSN currently has more users to deal with.

K?
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Idk about that. Live also has 360 users on also. Same with PS3 but still. Shouldn't say that like you know that for sure.
 
Copen said:
Some people CAN get online and use services other like me can't so in the TOS down time is implied even if you haven't signed in for over a year. You were on and now you're not so I have the correct definition of what down time is. My issue is the scenario that Sony owes nobody anything because of what's happened I find that comical. In the world we live in the customer is always right and the fact is were paying for a service we are not getting and once you get past all the legal jargon bullshit that is the core issue. Sonys always had some sort of TOS yet they're sued anyway there's always a loop hole for an attorney smart enough to find it so Sonys TOS isn't iron clad and infallible. I'm not asking for compensation I'm merely stating that if enough time goes by customers asking for compensation isn't unreasonable under any circumstances.
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So now you're mixing in the actual reality of the current, temporary, downtime with your hypothetical of permanent loss of service in an attempt to justify your definition. Aside from the absurdity of mixing reality with hypothetical, the logic doesn't follow. A service having been provided at one time and then stopping forever would still be a cessation of service. Not "down time." It can not be "down time" unless it, at some point, comes back up again.

The fact is, unless there is some actual evidence that there was negligence on the part of Sony, their TOS protects them perfectly. If there was a natural disaster that destroyed their servers and they were unable to provide service because of it, no amount of slick loop-hole lawyer-ing will make them accountable for that lack of service. There's no evidence at this point to suggest that there was negligence on Sony's part ( XBL recovering faster is not evidence that Sony is negligent). Consumers can ask for whatever they want to ask for. However the expectation to receive anything and everything they ask for is indeed unreasonable.
 
it seems both are somewhat down, I've been able to get on PSN intermittently which is the worst since it just a tease.

When I was on yesterday I could play CoD but not GTA: Online
 
kitch9 said:
Will people fuck off saying this.

Live is up for some, maybe the majority but not for everybody. Live currently has less users to deal with. MS is a massive server provider who marketed "UNLIMITED CLOUD POWER!" only to have their pants pulled down as quick if not quicker then their competitor who isn't.


PSN is up for some maybe the minority but not for everybody. PSN currently has more users to deal with. Sony depends on server providers and numerous third parties to provide their solution who all need to be co-ordinated with to get things back up and running and seem to be not that far behind the massive server provider competitor.

K?
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This another console wars thread?
 
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