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[TintoConCasera]

Hey GAF,

So I always thought those games must be cool as hell: Lots of interesting stories and characters, challenging combat, many places to explore and cool shit to find and an overall great sense of adventure.

They look like almost made for me but, for some reason, I haven't been able to beat a single one of those I've tried... except one. Here are my experiences:

• DOS2: Pretty cool game. Put like 38 hours into it before dropping it for reasons I can't remember. I remember liking the difficult combat and the graphics.
• Pillars of Eternity: Noped the fuck out after some time with it. Couldn't stand the constant lore dumps about religion and politics. I don't have a problem with reading, but I think this game did it in a very boring way. Liked the gameplay tho.
• KOTOR: played this one as a kid. I think I had more patience back then, since I was able to beat this one. Star Wars setting probably helped a lot too.
• Fallout: Don't really remember much of my time with it, aside from getting a bit stressed about the time limit and some super-mutants fucking my shit up at some point.

There are a few others I tried but didn't put too much time into because I didn't understand how those games worked, like Planescape: Torment or the Baldur's Gate games. That was like 10 years ago tho and I wouldn't mind at all trying them out again.

So considering all this, my question is... which CRPG could be a good entry point? I'm considering Planescape: Torment or the Baldur's Gate games, since I already have some knowledge about how they work and there are also enhanced editions available, although I'm also wondering if I should play those or the original versions...
Another one I have available is Wasteland 3, but right now I'm more inclined into playing something with swords, magic and all that jazz.

Help me please.


edit: replaced Wasteland 2 with Wasteland 3. I don't even know which games I own anymore.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2

 

[TintoConCasera]

Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2

Do you consider those good entry points? I remember having a hard time beating most battles in DOS2.

Also worth asking... do I need to play the first one before I dive into the sequel?

 

[Mister Wolf]

Buy Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access.

 

[bender]

Play Planescape Torment and Shadows of Amn first and then weep as you play every game that came after them that fails to reach those heights.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

Do you consider those good entry points? I remember having a hard time beating most battles in DOS2.

Also worth asking... do I need to play the first one before I dive into the sequel?

Only play the first game if you into the Lore. It's a completely separate game from each other

 

[TintoConCasera]

Buy Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access.

I live under a no Early Access policy. Game looks great and I already have it wishlisted tho!

Btw, just watched Conan for the first time ever a few weeks ago and yeah... that scene reminded me of you.
Great movie! Probably my favorite when it comes to adventure movies, aside from LotR.

Play Planescape Torment and Shadows of Amn first and then weep as you play every game that came after them that fails to reach those heights.

Honestly those look like the better ones to me. Those prerendered backgrounds look gorgeous, and the story must be quite good from what I've heard, specially PS:T.

Are the enhanced editions good? Or do they fuck up the experience in some way?

 

[jshackles]

Do you consider those good entry points? I remember having a hard time beating most battles in DOS2.

Also worth asking... do I need to play the first one before I dive into the sequel?

The first game is loads better than the second, in my opinion. It did a much better job of explaining the game mechanics, in my personal experience when I played through them both last year. The games aren't related story-wise, so you won't exactly be lost if you just start with part 2.

Also, if you're having trouble winning battles here are a few tips: 1) most of the regular combat encounters in these games are designed to be challenging, but winnable. 2) lots of battles have a gimmick. 3) if you want a more casual experience, you can lower the game's difficulty which will help tremendously with a lot of the game's difficulty spikes.

 

[bender]

Honestly those look like the better ones to me. Those prerendered backgrounds look gorgeous, and the story must be quite good from what I've heard, specially PS:T.

Are the enhanced editions good? Or do they fuck up the experience in some way?

I haven't tried the EEs but I'm pretty sure they have edits to dialog.

 

[Mister Wolf]

I live under a no Early Access policy. Game looks great and I already have it wishlisted tho!

Btw, just watched Conan for the first time ever a few weeks ago and yeah... that scene reminded me of you.
Great movie! Probably my favorite when it comes to adventure movies, aside from LotR.


Honestly those look like the better ones to me. Those prerendered backgrounds look gorgeous, and the story must be quite good from what I've heard, specially PS:T.

Are the enhanced editions good? Or do they fuck up the experience in some way?

If not BG3 then I would highly recommend Wasteland 3 or Pathfinder a WOTR. I dont like Divinity 2's battle rules.

 

[STARSBarry]

I live under a no Early Access policy. Game looks great and I already have it wishlisted tho!

Btw, just watched Conan for the first time ever a few weeks ago and yeah... that scene reminded me of you.
Great movie! Probably my favorite when it comes to adventure movies, aside from LotR.


Honestly those look like the better ones to me. Those prerendered backgrounds look gorgeous, and the story must be quite good from what I've heard, specially PS:T.

Are the enhanced editions good? Or do they fuck up the experience in some way?

Honestly with the wipes on major updates I would wait for release on Baldurs Gate III, but by god is it a good early access, based on what's there I would highly recommend. Looking forward to the Paladin class being added as they finally added my preferred race Gnomes on the latest update.

 

[bender]

If not BG3 then I would highly recommend Wasteland 3 or Pathfinder a WOTR. I dont like Divinity 2's battle rules.

The sandbox elements to the Divinity games are cool but I can't stand the tone of the narrative.

 

[Mister Wolf]

The sandbox elements to the Divinity games are cool but I can't stand the tone of the narrative.

Yeah. I didn't find the companions interesting neither. Its a great CRPG just not for me. The one thing I do like about it is all the dialogue being voiced. Thats a big one.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Planescape: Torment probably has the best setting and story of any RPG. Im not sure how much you know about Dungeons and Dragons lore but here are some vids on Planecape's setting:

 

[TintoConCasera]

I haven't tried the EEs but I'm pretty sure they have edits to dialog.

Fucking why... Hate when they do this kind of shit. Guess I'll have to investigate and check how far those edits go. Thanks for warning me!

If not BG3 then I would highly recommend Wasteland 3 or Pathfinder a WOTR. I dont like Divinity 2's battle rules.

I've also considered the Pathfinder games, but I am holding on them since I heard they are very complicated when it comes to their rules.

Still want to play them at some point, but I guess I might do better starting with a different game.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Fucking why... Hate when they do this kind of shit. Guess I'll have to investigate and check how far those edits go. Thanks for warning me!


I've also considered the Pathfinder games, but I am holding on them since I heard they are very complicated when it comes to their rules.

Still want to play them at some point, but I guess I might do better starting with a different game.

Wasteland 3 sounds like it would be a good one for you.

 

[The Cockatrice]

I wont comment on the classics since most should be played but they are very nostalgia-baits, not all aged well. I'll talk about the modern ones I played:


Divinity Original Sin - good crpg, it layed the foundation for something great, tho story=wise is kinda eh.
Divinity Original Sin 2 - the best CRPG ever made and one of my favorite games, incredibl voice acting/characters, gameplay and story choices, great atmosphere, well you know it. Yes its very hard and you may screw yourself later in the game. You can also play with friends, making it even better.
Dragon Age: Origins - yes I consider it an crpg and should be 100% played. Peak Bioware.
Pathfinder: Wrath of Righteous - piece of shit, woke/feminist garbage, men are useless, all women are either the strongest being, gods, and whatnot. Also I played it at launch and it ran like a piece of shit as well as being unbalanced as hell. They might've fixed these two things and while I agree, that mechanically the way the game works, and atmosphere-wise, it's great. It's long af and tedious tho, expect to play 200hours.
Wasteland 3 - another one that I didnt like due to its insane technical issues that might've been fixed. Other than that, story was pretty good, gameplay same. If it runs good now, then get it.
Disco Elysium - combat-less crpg, but its an incredible detective story where choices really matter, nice rpg mechanics that impact your dialogue choices.
Pathfinder: Kingmaker - really enjoyed it, very difficult kingdom mechanic. Recommended.
Torment Tides of Numenera - boring piece of shit.
Wasteland 2 - was ok, but kinda boring half way through.
Pillars of Eternity - very political/religious, but nice atmosphere, it gets better half-way in.
Pillars of Eternity 2 - piece of shit.
Tyranny - kinda woke but overall was fine, ends too fast, never truly shines nor does it do anything special. Skip it.
Shadowrun Returns - was ok, cool atmosphere, but boring.
Shadowrun Dragonfall - again ok, cool atmsophere but even more boring - couldnt finish it.
Underail - only played it a bit, mechanically its prolly the most advanced, but it looks and plays quite shitty.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Pillars of Eternity 2 - piece of shit.

Aw shit, why? I bought this one and have it in my backlog. Looked cool and non-linear, which I like.

 

[pramod]

I know it sounds cliche by now, but IMHO there is a reason the Infinity Engine classic RPGs: Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate 1&2, and Icewind Dale are considered the greatest RPGs ever made. Because after playing those recently, and then playing some modern ones like Pathfinder, I will go with the classic ones any day. The Infinity Engine games despite being 2D are just much easier to get into, have much better stories, characters, and artwork. The combat system is also much more fun and less tedious than modern 3D combat engines.

Especially BG1&2 which is still unsurpassed IMHO by any game. It's just so goddamn epic and fun to play. With a ton of super interesting characters you can mix and match in your party. It's got infinite replayability as well because of that.

BTW, people seem to say Planescape is the best one, but it's probably not the best choice for beginners since it's very slow in the beginning, whereas in BG2 and ID you're thrown into the fire and with a big party of characters right from the start.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Aw shit, why? I bought this one and have it in my backlog. Looked cool and non-linear, which I like.

I'm not the best person to ask an opinion, I'm very critical of most stuff. I exaggerated when I said its a piece of shit, but I didnt recommend it when I played it. Here was my review back in 2018 on steam https://steamcommunity.com/id/stealthycockatrice/recommended/560130?snr=1_5_9__402 no spoilers. the tl;dr of it is that I did not enjoy its story very much and it was a technical mess(prolly fixed by now or not). Ship mechanic is shit tho. Also yes I should probably stop playing games at launch lmao.

 

[pramod]

BTW you mentioned you beat KOTOR, congrats, you've already played one of the best CRPGs ever made IMHO. The obvious next step for you is to play KOTOR 2 which while not quite as amazing as the first is still really good.

 

[SpiceRacz]

Fallout & Fallout 2 are still phenomenal. In fact, now I want to go back and play them again.

 

[amigastar]

I loved DOS 2.
And Pillars Of Eternity made me read books again.

 

[intbal]

 

[e0n]

Might as well start with BGII: shadows of amn enhanced edition and finish that. It's the most historically significant game for crpgs.

 

[SpokkX]

Solasta crown of the magister is a good starter crpg. Not as good as divinity but also easier to get into. Way less dialogue and story - really good rpg mechanics based on d&d rules and really great rpg mechanics overall

Reminds me of the old gold box d&d games a lot

Oh it is on gamepass even on xbox

 

[Wildebeest]

So you want something that isn't boring, long or stressful to whet your appetite? I got nothing. Don't worry too much about the water chip timer in Fallout, it isn't that unfair. Fallout is by far the most historically significant game for that sort of adventure RPG. Like you have Fallout for CRPGs, Doom for FPS, and Diablo for action RPGs. Pretty much all the games you are interested in are post Fallout CRPGs.

 

[Stamps1646]

These are my favorite cRPG's, I separated them into three categories from my experience.

Entry cRPGS:
Shadowrun: Trilogy *great series, Hong Kong is my top favorite of the 3*
Tyranny *great game all around*
Wasteland 2: Directors Cut *If you like using guns, this game will be so enjoyable to play*
Fallout 2 *one of the best FO experiences I've had, minus FO: New Vegas*
Star Wars: KotoR 1 and 2 *dated visually, but both great experiences*
Dragon Age: Origins *PC version is the best IMO, great game*
Disco Elysium: The Final Cut *Story choice focused throughout game*
Planescape Torment: Enhanced Edition
======

Entry-Mid-cRPGs:
Pillars of Eternity *great game, but difficulty scale jump too fast*
Wastleland 3 *great game, but found it more enjoyable with friends*
Torment: Tides of Numenera
======

Mid-Hard-cRPGs:
DoS1 *heavy text reading, IMO a better experience then DoS2*
DoS2 *Excellent voice acting, the difficulty in this game can bring down the overall joy in your adventure*
Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition
Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition
Baldur's Gate III *I would wait for it to be out of early access, it's a fantastic game even in it's current state, 2023 release*

 

[Wildebeest]

My advice is if you are worried about being bored after Pillars of Eternity then avoid Shadowrun, Tyranny, and Dragon Age. Pathfinder might be overly long and potentially too hard, but it is less likely to be just too dry and dusty to swallow.

 

[Alexios]

Gothic II is a must play. Check out Wizardry 8 as well.

 

[The_hunter]

Dragon age origins, it has good characters, story and combat.

Planescape torment has incredibly strong writing, and is very interesting. But I played it so long ago, who knows if it still holds up.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Loved Pillars of Eternity II’s whole pirate thing. Felt fresh in all these CRPGs.

I loved Tides of Numenera more than the average gamer too I guess. The world lore and story was really unique, with billions of years of civilization stacked on the previous ones, with artifacts they no longer really know how it works, felt very unique. It was not the best for combat but it grabbed me from start to finish.

Disco Elysium is a must play.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I agree with most everything said in here. Of games I haven’t seen mentioned I would recommend Wizardry 8. Game is fucking awesome and I only just played it a few years ago.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[Beechos]

How about disco elysium? I cant get into crpgs myself either but so far im digging this game.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Many many thanks, everyone! Lots of different recommendations, but I finally decided to start with Baldur's Gate, since the sequel is probably the one I want to play the most, and starting with the first one will allow me to learn the ropes before everything gets too complicated.
I think I already got the gist of how it works too, with all the armor class and GAC0 stuff. Managed to reach the Friendly Arm Inn and kick the ass of a mage that was waiting for me there. That fight already took me like 3 tries but hey, I managed to succeed.

I've also filled my wishlist with most of your recommendations, so yeah, many thanks!

How about disco elysium?

I'm looking for something more like an adventure, with combat and such. But I have my eyes on it, heard it's one of the best written games out there.

 

[Zug]

Fucking why... Hate when they do this kind of shit. Guess I'll have to investigate and check how far those edits go. Thanks for warning me!

To my knowledge, BGEE/2 only adds content, which is arguably not at the level of the original game (a mod can remove it). IWD and Planescape EE are very faithfull of the original though.
The engine upgrade itself makes it worth playing the EE editions for whatever reasons. It's sad IWD2 code was lost, and that it will never get an EE version.

Also Pillars 2 is probably the most advanced Real Time with Pause game to date, I like the original fantasy pirate setting, the characters, the writing is not as annoying as the first one, I don't understand why it's not more liked, it's one the the best Obsidian game.

 

[TintoConCasera]

To my knowledge, BGEE/2 only adds content, which is arguably not at the level of the original game (a mod can remove it). IWD and Planescape EE are very faithfull of the original though.
The engine upgrade itself makes it worth playing the EE editions for whatever reasons. It's sad IWD2 code was lost, and that it will never get an EE version.

Yeah I went with the EEs. Didn't know about that mod to remove the new stuff, so far I've just been ignoring the new characters. Specially the pink haired wild mage, as the moment she appears on screen you can feel the writting quality plummeting.

Very happy to have given this genre another go, I'm having a ton of fun.

Also Pillars 2 is probably the most advanced Real Time with Pause game to date, I like the original fantasy pirate setting, the characters, the writing is not as annoying as the first one, I don't understand why it's not more liked, it's one the the best Obsidian game.

Less lore dumps maybe? I played the first one just a bit and that really bothered me, half the dialogue was about lore and not the actual story.

 

[RiccochetJ]

I think Tyranny is an excellent entry point to see if you even like these types of games. It's short for a CRPG where you can beat it in about 20 hours, was designed from the ground up for multiple playthroughs, and has very user friendly and forgiving systems that you can recover from unlike the Divinity games where you discover you screwed yourself 50 hours in. I quite enjoyed it.

 

[Ladioss]

Divinity Original Sin 1 & 2 - not everybody will love the Pratchett-like type of humor, and fights may become a little hard really fast if you are a neophyte.
Still an excellent CRPG duology and the closest we have come to the CRPG sandbox gameplay of classic Ultima 4-5-6-7. Good to play in coop too.

Underrail : one of the greatest CRPG of the past decade (think STALKER if it was a CRPG), but absolutely not for everyone alas as your character build can utterly fuck up your playthrough. Great DLC extension.

Pillars of Eternity / Torment ToN : great concepts, flawed execution and boring story and/or gameplay.

Legend of Grimrock 1 : one of the three or four great blobber of the CRPG revival (together with Bard Tale 4 and M&M10), and relatively easier and shorter to play than other games from this subgenre. Fun puzzles, too.

Disco Elysium aka The furies are at home in the mirror : narrative driven CRPG. Brillant writing and world-building - the whodunit itself is gimmicky at best, DE is all about being a (great) piece of literary work.

Shadowrun Dragonfall : good tactical CRPG and satisfying writing. The two other Harebrained Schemes Shadowrun games are not as good.

Solasta: Crown of the Magister : as an implementation of the D&D5 ruleset, I think it's way better than Baldur 3, but the story and the characters are not really that interesting.

Pathfinder - Kingmaker and Pathfinder - Wrath of Righteous : I can't really comment on them as I hate the Pathfinder ruleset (way too overbloated for my taste), but the games have a very good reputation.

Age of Decadence : great tactical/narrative CRPG set in a world where the Roman Empire survived into the Middle Ages before being almost wiped out during a weird multidimensionnal magical apocalypse - so a medieval/antique post-apocalyptic world
Hard as hell if you try to play it the wrong way (you really need to roleplay your character build) and not really good looking from a technical standpoint, but one of the most unique experiences you can play today.

Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 1 : surprisingly, it's still playable in 2022 with the unofficial mod installed. An interesting choice for some 90s-style urban gothic fantasy shenanigans (you have music from Tiamat and Lacuna Coil playing in the nightclub, says it all)

Baldur 2 / Planescape Torment / Fallout 1&2 / Ultima series / Ultima Underworld / M&M / Wizardry 8 / Arcanum : great classics that may have aged badly. *If* you feel brave enough, you should absolutely play them, but otherwise skip them.

TLDR : if you are a total beginner, consider either Disco Elysium (if you like reading), Grimrock 1 (if you like puzzles) or Shadowrun Dragonfall (if you like cyberpunk and tactical RPGs) as they are relatively on the easier/shorter side.
Don't hesitate to try Divinity Original Sin 1 or 2 if you feel like it (especially if you want to play with someone, your SO for example) but maybe consider playing them on easy mode. Don't hesitate to look up good character builds on the internet.
Or just wait for the official release of Baldur 3, as it will probably be a good game for neophytes once finished.

Or for something totally different, give a try to King of Dragon Pass. Tribal economic management with a narrative bent and magical-mythological engineering set in a bronze age fantasy world

PS : given your avatar @ TintoConCasera you will probably love hardcore CRPGs (Underrail, Knights of the Chalice 2, Battle Brothers) once you grow accustomed to them. Like Megaten or Saga games, a large part of the fun is are all about exploiting and then breaking the gameplay.