LOST 06.17/18/18.5: "The End" (Everything Else Was Just Progress)

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Am i the only one who will never watch the ending again? Even if it was the most amazing episode ever.


Vincent sitting next to Jack when he dies just absolutely killed me. I couldnt watch that again.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
No, no. They had to realize that their lives were their lives and that even though a tremendous amount of shit happened, it was what they got.
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Um...then what was the point of the ridiculously plotted X timeline then...
 
Mifune said:
I think if I were to make a list of my 10 favorite moments from LOST, I'd find that every single one of them gains new resonance in light of The End. Because really the show was ABOUT these moments. The destination really didn't matter (well it did cosmically) but the interactions these characters had, their moment-to-moment experience on the island, were crucial.

Ultimately LOST abandoned its genre trappings to reach for genuine art. And I think it succeeded.

What meaning does anything have if at the end of it all you're lying in the ground? The only meaning we can take from our short existence is the relationships we forged and that which we give to each other. And the beauty of this show is that the characters' ultimate reward was to fully UNDERSTAND what their time together really did mean.

It's beautiful. I didn't cry while watching it, but thinking about it gets me a bit emotional. That good fucking TV.
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So well put. Exactly.
 
ostrichKing said:
Exactly...I still have not heard an explanation of why the convoluted alt timeline was structured the way it was and why all the characters were happy to move on from that. Why the ridiculous wandering game throughout the season. If this was a place they constructed for them to all get together, why all the ridiculous drama that occurred in the X timeline. Why structure just like the real world but without the island influence (though to be honest, some of the changes have nothing to do with lack of island influence)? It just amazes me that everyone thinks the X timeline with its tidy contrived explanation actually makes sense at all.
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The sideways world was structured like a real world because the Losties still had to get over their remaining issues in the context of a real place, or else it would have had no effect. To them, right up until the end, the sideways was all real. It was very important that it had to feel that way. I feel the need to post this again:

Zeliard said:
They also formed the sideways as an opportunity to get over any final, lingering issues that they couldn't on the island. That was their final task before finally moving on and achieving final enlightenment.

  • Jack gives himself a son in the sideways, so that he could be the father he was never able to be, as well as the father that he never had in his own life.

  • Jin and Sun are able to experience the pending birth of their child together, an opportunity that was taken from them in the real world.

  • Sawyer is still angry in the sideways, but he's a cop and he doesn't pursue the other Sawyer with the same unrelenting rage and vigor, killing innocent people in he process. He ultimately learned to fully let go with the help of Miles, Kate and Juliet.

  • Hurley no longer carries around bad luck in the sideways. It's the direct opposite. He's able to live a life where he purely helps people, with nothing getting in the way, which is what he always wanted.

  • John Locke is miraculously fixed by Jack and is able to walk - this repairs and greatly strengthens both his own resolve and his relationship with Jack. This does the same for Jack himself. The two old rivals find peace in each other.

  • Ben is forgiven by Locke, who he had killed. Locke was already at peace. Ben finds peace.

  • Charlie finally got over his heroin addiction and found peace with Claire.

  • Sayid ultimately realized that Nadia was not the right person for him. She belonged to another. Shannon, who he met on the island, was.

And so on.
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The reason for the sideways was clarified in the finale. It was specifically structured and progressed in a way that allowed them to remove the final chains that were keeping them from nirvana.

Again, you're free to hate all of this. You can think it's the biggest pile of bullshit ever if you want. But I simply take issue with people saying that it doesn't fit, because it does. It fits rather snugly.
 
Whoever said, hundreds of pages back, that Season 6 was about making Jack a good character in time for the finale, they were spot on.
 
MMaRsu said:
It's Widmore isn't it? And yeah that is certainly possible. So tell me exactly why was Desmond a fail safe for? If MIB would get off the Island then Des could have done something to reverse this situation? At that point when Widmore was talking about Des being a failsafe I was convinced it had something to do with the X timeline.

There is still stuff I don't understand. Didn't Widmore ask Des if he knew what he meant when he had a mission to do in Happily Ever After? Desmond said yes right away, so were they talking about uncorking the Island or about the X timeline?

These are things..
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Desmond could pull the plug on the island, which rendered the smoke monster mortal. He pulled the plug and they killed him.
 
Mifune said:
I think if I were to make a list of my 10 favorite moments from LOST, I'd find that every single one of them gains new resonance in light of The End. Because really the show was ABOUT these moments. The destination really didn't matter (well it did cosmically) but the interactions these characters had, their moment-to-moment experience on the island, were crucial.

Ultimately LOST abandoned its genre trappings to reach for genuine art. And I think it succeeded.

What meaning does anything have if at the end of it all you're lying in the ground? The only meaning we can take from our short existence is the relationships we forged and that which we give to each other. And the beauty of this show is that the characters' ultimate reward was to fully UNDERSTAND what their time together really did mean.

It's beautiful. I didn't cry while watching it, but thinking about it gets me a bit emotional. That's good fucking TV.
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God damnit, Mifune. God fucking damnit. You're on beautiful son of a bitch.
 
Jeff-DSA said:
Desmond could pull the plug on the island, which rendered the smoke monster mortal. He pulled the plug and they killed him.
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Jack could have done it too. So they didn't even need Desmond.

As many people pointed out at the end, both Jack and Desmond could have plugged the hole back in, but for some reason Jack insisted he do it because that was his destiny, or something.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
No, no. They had to realize that their lives were their lives and that even though a tremendous amount of shit happened, it was what they got.
Click to expand...


fair enough, but this line from your previous post was what I was specifically referring to.

"You have to reach a point where you realize your life really wouldn't have been better off if the plane had landed in LAX”

I think that simplifies the ending a bit too much. it’s one thing to say “deal with it” /shades

and another to say “your life would have still sucked if the plane never crashed” even though the flashes show that this is not the case for the majority of them.
 
The entire finale was a total JACK show. On both sides.

Jack has usurped the title of BOSS forever.

And since I'm thinking he created LA X with Jughead, he is literally MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE.

Edit: Or maybe Juliet is MotU...

(his death walk/in the church scene will be with me forever ;_;)



StopMakingSense said:
Didn't Jacob cure Juliet's sister's cancer?
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Who knows. Total question mark.
 
Korey said:
Jack could have done it too. So they didn't even need Desmond.

As many people pointed out at the end, both Jack and Desmond could have plugged the hole back in, but for some reason Jack insisted he do it because that was his destiny, or something.
Click to expand...

Jack couldn't have unplugged it--he wouldn't have survived the surge of energy.
 
Mifune said:
I think if I were to make a list of my 10 favorite moments from LOST, I'd find that every single one of them gains new resonance in light of The End. Because really the show was ABOUT these moments. The destination really didn't matter (well it did cosmically) but the interactions these characters had, their moment-to-moment experience on the island, were crucial.

Ultimately LOST abandoned its genre trappings to reach for genuine art. And I think it succeeded.

What meaning does anything have if at the end of it all you're lying in the ground? The only meaning we can take from our short existence is the relationships we forged and that which we give to each other. And the beauty of this show is that the characters' ultimate reward was to fully UNDERSTAND what their time together really did mean.

It's beautiful. I didn't cry while watching it, but thinking about it gets me a bit emotional. That's good fucking TV.
Click to expand...
Perfectly sums it up. Well said.
 
Wow. Words cannot describe...
Amazing finale, definitely exceeded my expectations, and probably the best hour and 44 minutes of television I ever witnessed.
 
LCfiner said:
fair enough, but this line from your previous post was what I was specifically referring to.

"You have to reach a point where you realize your life really wouldn't have been better off if the plane had landed in LAX”

I think that simplifies the ending a bit too much. it’s one thing to say “deal with it” /shades

and another to say “your life would have still sucked if the plane never crashed” even though the flashes show that this is not the case for the majority of them.
Click to expand...
I disagree Birdie's view, as I said sort of on the last page. The sideways is the final evolution for all the characters. It exists so t hey resolve their final character issues they had in life and once that is accomplished, they're brought to a conclusion where they can see the original lives, right up to their deaths. The two are reconciled to create one whole, happy, fulfilled person. And with that knowledge, they can all move on together, into Utter Bliss, as it were.
 
Zeliard said:
The sideways world was structured like a real world because the Losties still had to get over their remaining issues in the context of a real place, or else it would have had no effect. To them, right up until the end, the sideways was all real. It was very important that it had to feel that way. I feel the need to post this again:



The reason for the sideways was clarified in the finale. It was specifically structured and progressed in a way that allowed them to remove the final chains that were keeping them from nirvana.

Again, you're free to hate all of this. You can think it's the biggest pile of bullshit ever if you want. But I simply take issue with people saying that it doesn't fit, because it does. It fits rather snugly.
Click to expand...

I've read that over and over again and there are still giant plot holes and things that make NO sense in how their collective alt timeline was structured...It does not fit as neatly as you seem to think it does...but I guess we agree to completely disagree...
 
georgc said:
Hey guys, How were those alternate endings on Kimmel? Were they any good?
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It was basically just parodies of endings from other shows, Sopranos, etc. Still funny though.
 
Mifune said:
I think if I were to make a list of my 10 favorite moments from LOST, I'd find that every single one of them gains new resonance in light of The End. Because really the show was ABOUT these moments. The destination really didn't matter (well it did cosmically) but the interactions these characters had, their moment-to-moment experience on the island, were crucial.

Ultimately LOST abandoned its genre trappings to reach for genuine art. And I think it succeeded.

What meaning does anything have if at the end of it all you're lying in the ground? The only meaning we can take from our short existence is the relationships we forged and that which we give to each other. And the beauty of this show is that the characters' ultimate reward was to fully UNDERSTAND what their time together really did mean.

It's beautiful. I didn't cry while watching it, but thinking about it gets me a bit emotional. That's good fucking TV.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's the kind of uplifting, life affirming feeling I got all through the end. Just beautiful and emotional.
 
Was just reading up on the goddess Tawert. From wikipedia (and I'm sure this is old, but whatever):

The name "Taweret" means, "she who is great" or simply, "great one".[1] When paired with another deity, she became the demon-wife of Apep, the original god of evil.
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As the counterpart of Apep, who was always below the horizon, Taweret was seen as being the northern sky
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As a protector, she often was shown with one arm resting on the sa symbol, which symbolized protection, and on occasion she carried an ankh, the symbol of life, or a knife, which would be used to threaten evil spirits.
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Dogen got the ankh from Hurley, and had the knife, as well.

Probably old, but I never knew this stuff.
 
I'm going to spit out some random thoughts on the ending.

I am one of those people who hate the whole Purgatory idea, so I am going to reject it. The only nagging thing is Christian Sheppard which I can't place any particular theory around, but I will attempt to.

First of all the X Dimension is the X Dimension, it's not purgatory. When the incident occurred in the original time line with the nuclear bomb, they did what they were trying to do, they all got the plane to land in LA X, creating timeline X.

The melding of their minds occurred due to the trans dimensional being of Desmond.

I have no idea why Christian Sheppard was alive but I also don't believe his speech about how all of them are dead, how would we know, why is he the person of knowledge on the subject? Doesn't fit with me.

The whole moving on aspect is what I like to think of as a paradox, they have become aware of both dimensions and the only way to fix things is to end the entire universe due to this paradox, and thus the losties bring about the end of the entire existence because they wanted to be together. It only ends once, remember?

It's a little bit of a junky theory, but I prefer it over all this purgatory they all go to heaven or somewhere equally as cool bullshit.

I loved the entire finale, except for those last 10 minutes in which they lost me. The final shot was also amazing.
 
ostrichKing said:
I've read that over and over again and there are still giant plot holes and things that make NO sense in how their collective alt timeline was structured...It does not fit as neatly as you seem to think it does...but I guess we agree to completely disagree...
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Guess what. It was a reality created by flawed individuals.
 
I mean, when you're like me and possibly your favorite moment of the entire series is Hurley and Ben sharing a candy bar, it's hard not to fucking love this finale.
 
Zeliard said:
The sideways world was structured like a real world because the Losties still had to get over their remaining issues in the context of a real place, or else it would have had no effect. To them, right up until the end, the sideways was all real. It was very important that it had to feel that way. I feel the need to post this again:

The reason for the sideways was clarified in the finale. It was specifically structured and progressed in a way that allowed them to remove the final chains that were keeping them from nirvana.

Again, you're free to hate all of this. You can think it's the biggest pile of bullshit ever if you want. But I simply take issue with people saying that it doesn't fit, because it does. It fits rather snugly.
Click to expand...

I agree that the ending was a great way of wrapping up all of the character arcs, and of completing the theme of redemption that Lost had going for it from the very beginning. It makes for very symmetrical storytelling, and the way they went back to Jack closing his eyes for the last time was rather beautiful.

I think many people would agree, and it seems like many in this thread do, that the finale did a good job of wrapping up the character stories. (some also feel that the ending cheapened the characters) I think where a lot of people have problems, myself included, is how the show has left many questions unanswered in regards to the island itself, to "the rules," the history of the guardians, the lighthouse, the cabin, etc.

Overall, the whole was greater than the sum of its parts, but the parts that were left dangling are no less frustrating to think about because of it.
 
LCfiner said:
fair enough, but this line from your previous post was what I was specifically referring to.

"You have to reach a point where you realize your life really wouldn't have been better off if the plane had landed in LAX”

I think that simplifies the ending a bit too much. it’s one thing to say “deal with it” /shades

and another to say “your life would have still sucked if the plane never crashed” even though the flashes show that this is not the case for the majority of them.
Click to expand...

Yeah I should have clarified. It's not that your life would have sucked too, it's that you have to realize that there are no do-overs. You have to be shown the extent of your life without those events and then realize that it wasn't what happened. Basically you have to come to grips with your circumstance. That's why it was easier for "couples" because they had rad shit they can look back on. Someone like Ana Lucia, it's going to take a lot more soul searching. Her life was pretty much non-stop torture on the island.
 
VALIS said:
Does Supernatural focus more on its mysteries, or, like Lost, is it more, um, *cough* "character driven?" 'Cuz I'm feeling some TV show mythology blue balls after Lost's finale.
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I don't know how to answer that. I'd say it's more character-driven but they're two different shows. Supernatural doesn't open too many of its own mythological mysteries. Instead it relies heavily on other mythologies and rolls with them.

Given the nature of the show, though, I don't think it will give you "mythology blue balls." Look at the name of the show. "Supernatural" kinda implies that a good portion of the story as well of the mechanics of the story can't be explained by natural means. You just accept that things work the way they do "just cause" for the most part. The only thing you can really expect is consistency within the show.
 
Korey said:
Jack could have done it too. So they didn't even need Desmond.

As many people pointed out at the end, both Jack and Desmond could have plugged the hole back in, but for some reason Jack insisted he do it because that was his destiny, or something.
Click to expand...

No, I mean PULL the plug, not put the plug back in.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
To get to that point. To fully take in what would have happened if the plane had never crashed.
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But the plane did crash, and in LA/X we didn't see the effects of what would have happened if the plane didn't crash because it wasn't a real world at ALL. The situations that the Losties were in would never have happened.
 
ostrichKing said:
I've read that over and over again and there are still giant plot holes and things that make NO sense in how their collective alt timeline was structured...It does not fit as neatly as you seem to think it does...but I guess we agree to completely disagree...
Click to expand...

What are these plot holes?
 
Ceres said:
Guess what. It was a reality created by flawed individuals.
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Ha...best excuse I've heard for poor plot structure...

On your examples...what exactly was Hurley's flaw he was getting over? He had bad luck before...but that had nothing to actually do with him. How was him being lucky in this alt timeline him coming to terms or fixing anything?
 
sykoex said:
It was basically just parodies of endings from other shows, Sopranos, etc. Still funny though.
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cool thanks. I like your tag lol.

I just can't believe it's over. I watched this show since the pilot. I remember when the pilot f the oceanic plane first showed up in the beginning episodes. I was like "hey its that guy from Alias".
 
The nice thing about the sideways is it can be rejected. It happens after all of the characters die. If you want to ignore, that's fine. You guys still got your resolution in this finale to the story that began 6 years ago. That's an amazing thing as well. I thought the sideways would be intertwined with the mainline and sap both timelines of their enjoyability (in a reset kind of way). But their individuality is what elevated them both, atleast for me.


I wonder if there was anyone who loved the flashsideways but didn't like the island stuff. Probably because it was confirmed they all died :lol (cept for Lapidus and Caesar and Vincent, yo).
 
Mifune said:
What meaning does anything have if at the end of it all you're lying in the ground? The only meaning we can take from our short existence is the relationships we forged and that which we give to each other. And the beauty of this show is that the characters' ultimate reward was to fully UNDERSTAND what their time together really did mean.
Click to expand...

Do you actually believe this?

Some guys here are high on the melodramatic crap.
 
Mr. Snrub said:
Was just reading up on the goddess Tawert. From wikipedia (and I'm sure this is old, but whatever):







Dogen got the ankh from Hurley, and had the knife, as well.

Probably old, but I never knew this stuff.
Click to expand...
As Apep was thought to live in the underworld
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heh.
 
georgc said:
Hey guys, How were those alternate endings on Kimmel? Were they any good?
Click to expand...

They were comedic in nature, which was disappointing, because I was actually hoping for serious alternate endings.

I will also use this opportunity again to say that I think Kimmel is a terrible interviewer, and that he asks useless questions with regards to the cast.
 
Korey said:
Jack could have done it too. So they didn't even need Desmond.

As many people pointed out at the end, both Jack and Desmond could have plugged the hole back in, but for some reason Jack insisted he do it because that was his destiny, or something.
Click to expand...

As was already said, Desmond was the only person who could unplug it. Didn't notice those skeletons in the cave?

Jack was dying and had nothing to go back to. Desmond was almost killed unplugging it and could barely walk, and had a wife and kid. WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?!?
 
I litteraly yield " yessssssss " when Jack quoted Desmond in his own face:

See you in another life, brother from season's 2 finale.

Then I realised I just yield all alone in front of a tv show.

Then I figured how awesome Lost was.
 
MMaRsu said:
But the plane did crash, and in LA/X we didn't see the effects of what would have happened if the plane didn't crash because it wasn't a real world at ALL. The situations that the Losties were in would never have happened.
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They did. They were experiencing it as if it were a real world.
 
Acosta said:
Do you actually believe this?

Some guys here are high on the melodramatic crap.
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Man, this thread is shitty. Throw it down the light cave.

In other news, anyone else enjoy the fact that Desmond had to "lift it up."
 
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