LOST 06.17/18/18.5: "The End" (Everything Else Was Just Progress)

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Suairyu said:
But then in season 5's introduction they showed that Dharma never reached the Wheel as Chang ordered them not to drill any further into the chamber. So like, what's up with that? Way to ruin a perfectly good explanation for the polar bears for a throw-away piece of dialogue designed to get the blood pumping, guys!
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wasn't the wheel part of the Orchid Station? I think they did find it, and at least intended to use it
 
StuBurns said:
So you're saying they knew what it would do? In that case, why move the wheel?
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We first see the Donkey wheel 2,000 years ago. Long enough to figure out it made the island move. The Lamp Post was built to find the island. I'd say one big reason it was built because they moved it ever so often.

One scenario is it being moved to a cold environment, enslaving polar bears that swam over, keeping them in the cages on Hydra Island, then training them to move it so they don't have to have a human leave.

IMO.
 
Magnus said:
I didn't want anything else answered man. I'm not one of the ones who wanted answers to the cabin, or Walt, or anything more really. I mean, some more answers would have been nice, but I realized we weren't getting them since Across the Sea.

My quarrel is with the one answer we did get -- the nature of the LA X/Sideways universe revealed to us in the last 10 minutes. It was disastrous.

I'm in here reading because I'm still fascinated by discussion about the show, and it's on my mind. I get a little irate seeing reverse trolling all over the place, implications that anyone who didn't think it was a brilliant ending didn't "get" the show. It's going both ways.

I apologize if I stirred the pot again, I'll back out.
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Take those last 10 minutes and fit it within the context of the series, especially the episodes this season and the last few last season and IMO its even more poignant.

These people were brought to the island for a purpose that wasn't their own. And even though they grew in profound ways and in many cases found themselves it was still under a calling that wasn't their own. I like to believe that as part of their journey they gave their consciousnesses(selves) not only the opportunity to finish the personal growth cut short or altered by the influence their Island destiny had on their lives, but also to find each other as well. It's up to interpretation if Jughead was responsible for the flashsideways, everything the narrative has told us combined with Christian's conversation with Jack leads me to that conclusion. Either way the flashsideways goes hand in hand with everything we've gotten to know about these characters.

Read Zeliard's thoughts several pages back. He sums it up nicely as do duckroll and J.H.

Most have LOST gaf have been saying it's all about the characters from the beginning. Sure there were things I was personally curious about that didn't get touched on, but there are no gaping holes in the plot because the writers chose not to. And I'm fine with that.
 
DeathNote said:
We first see the Donkey wheel 2,000 years ago. Long enough to figure out it made the island move. The Lamp Post was built to find the island. I'd say one big reason it was built because they moved it ever so often.

One scenario is it being moved to a cold environment, enslaving polar bears, keeping them in the cages on Hydra Island, then training them to move it so they don't have to have a human leave.

IMO.
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Sounds good, makes sense. Cool.

One thing, why do you say it was 2,000 years ago? There is no reference to date in ATS no?
 
PhoenixDark said:
lmao get over yourself, they didn't know what they were doing and it showed

Just finished the finale...

Glad I didn't watch this show from the beginning or I'd be pissed right now. Instead I found the finale to be a good episode, but a laughable season finale. The one "big" answer provided is basically what people said after the first few episodes of S1: they're in Purgatory. Sure most of them died long after the initial crash or whatever, but it's still basically Purgatory.

What exactly about the island needed to be protected? Seriously, I figured there would be some "fruit of everlasting life" shit that people wanted, but I still can't grasp why anyone gave a shit about the island. And guess what - I'll never know. smh

The episode summed up the entire season: good, but a horrible finale. There is no closure here.
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Agreed with this, funny enough, i don't think it's something that needed to be elabroated on in the finale. They had a chance to highlight why the island is so important. (see across the sea). And that didn't end up to well.:lol
 
gumshoe said:
People are actually claiming that the incident wasn't caused by the main characters?? :lol :lol
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I don't think the incident was *caused* by the main characters. Radzinski was a pretty crazy ass mofo, and it seemed like he was intent on drilling into the pocket no matter what. The nuke probably prevented the incident from being a true catastrophe.
 
layzie1989 said:
wasn't the wheel part of the Orchid Station? I think they did find it, and at least intended to use it
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It was underneath/behind the Orchid. Season 4 made me assume they found the wheel chamber, then built the station on top of it. Season 5 showed that they simply detected electromagnetic energy, started drilling, then stopped short of ever reaching the wheel chamber. "Drill one more inch and you risk releasing that energy" etc.
gumshoe said:
People are actually claiming that the incident wasn't caused by the main characters?? :lol :lol
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It wasn't. The drilling would have happened with or without them. The Swan was getting built. The main characters simply waltzed in to blow up a nuke.
 
MMAli said:
A possible hole in this theory is Jack's ability to withstand the light when recorks the source. Does anyone have an explanation for this within the framework I laid out?
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He does get transported to that same rock formation on which we found the body of Samuel/MiB.. so my guess is that the light (+water) does transport a person physically.. however, while the MiB was killed by this, maybe the protector of the island (Jack at the time) is immune to it (made special, like Desmond), which would explain how Jacob was able to move off island (and go touch random people). I.e., maybe Jacob entered the cave himself to transport across the world.
 
Discotheque said:
It possibly won't age THAT well. But I think the music and performances will hold up.
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The performances are one of the main reasons I don't believe it will hold up. IMO, they are far from timeless.
 
PhoenixDark said:
What exactly about the island needed to be protected? Seriously, I figured there would be some "fruit of everlasting life" shit that people wanted, but I still can't grasp why anyone gave a shit about the island. And guess what - I'll never know. smh
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They were implying that the Island was key to everything about life, death, and rebirth. I don't think that explanation was handled particularly well, but there were enough hints to get the conclusion. The light at the end when they passed on being identical to the light of the Island is one.
 
Dez said:
I don't think the incident was *caused* by the main characters. Radzinski was a pretty crazy ass mofo, and it seemed like he was intent on drilling into the pocket no matter what. The nuke probably prevented the incident from being a true catastrophe.
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It did. Pushing the button discharges a pocket of energy. What happened at the end of last season was Radzinski causes the incident by drilling into the pocket, that's why things start getting sucked in like at the end of season two. The bomb detonates that energy and gives them long enough to build the button around the pocket.

That is the only logical explanation for the events I can see.
 
StuBurns said:
Sounds good, makes sense. Cool.

One thing, why do you say it was 2,000 years ago? There is no reference to date in ATS no?
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In the Lost "enhanced" Pilot, it said Jacob and MIB was born like 2,000 years ago. We see MIB finding the light with a Donkey Wheel near by.
 
I think they did the best they could under the circumstances. They couldn't tie up all the loose ends concerning the mythology so they did the next best thing: they gave the fans an ending where all of our favorite characters are reunited in the end.

Then again I've never seen one episode where I wasn't high off my @$$. Ever seen Lost....on weeeeedddddd?


halfbaked5.jpg
 
The one thing about the series that i'm actually disappointed in is the issue with Walt. Specifically:

1. What was so special about him?
2. Why did he appear to Shannon, wet and muttering something? It wasn't Smokey because Walt doesn't die.

His character seemed to be pretty important to the main story in the first two seasons but it was completely dropped. Even when Michael made other appearances, Walt didn't seem important anymore. At all. I'd love to hear what his story was supposed to be.
 
PhoenixDark said:
lmao get over yourself, they didn't know what they were doing and it showed

Just finished the finale...

Glad I didn't watch this show from the beginning or I'd be pissed right now. Instead I found the finale to be a good episode, but a laughable season finale. The one "big" answer provided is basically what people said after the first few episodes of S1: they're in Purgatory. Sure most of them died long after the initial crash or whatever, but it's still basically Purgatory.

What exactly about the island needed to be protected? Seriously, I figured there would be some "fruit of everlasting life" shit that people wanted, but I still can't grasp why anyone gave a shit about the island. And guess what - I'll never know. smh

The episode summed up the entire season: good, but a horrible finale. There is no closure here.
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Pffft, noob. Clearly the show went way over your head. The symbology in the finale gave me and my girlfriend double orgasms it was so good. Anyone who needed the answers spoon fed to them through fancy dialogue and exposition isn't good enough for this show.
 
Oh yeah...Jacob going off island. Duh. I missed part of season 6, but did they actually explain how he was able to do that? Seems like a pretty negligent thing for a guardian to do.
 
Zombie James said:
The one thing about the series that i'm actually disappointed in is the issue with Walt. Specifically:

1. What was so special about him?
2. Why did he appear to Shannon, wet and muttering something? It wasn't Smokey because Walt doesn't die.

His character seemed to be pretty important to the main story in the first two seasons but it was completely dropped. Even when Michael made other appearances, Walt didn't seem important anymore. At all. I'd love to hear what his story was supposed to be.
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That only becomes an issue if you believe Smokey's statement that he can only take the form of a dead person.
 
Damn, I so want to pop up just about any episode of Lost on Netflix right now but I'm gonna do my best to hold off until the blu-ray set and encyclopedia come out. If I can wait until then, it'll be fresh enough for a re-watch + I'll have the encyclopedia and extra features to make it ever better.

Willpower.
 
IrrelevantNotch said:
Pffft, noob. Clearly the show went way over your head. The symbology in the finale gave and my girlfriend double orgasms it was so good. Anyone who needed the answers spoon fed to them through fancy dialogue and exposition isn't good enough for this show.
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Whoa. I'm not sure if it was your intention, but you just came off as an incredibly condescending asshole.
You'll do well in Lost threads. ;)
 
PhoenixDark said:
The one "big" answer provided is basically what people said after the first few episodes of S1: they're in Purgatory. Sure most of them died long after the initial crash or whatever, but it's still basically Purgatory.
Click to expand...

Were people, like, not paying attention? I truly don't understand how anyone could watch the finale and still think the island was purgatory.

smh
 
Zombie James said:
The one thing about the series that i'm actually disappointed in is the issue with Walt. Specifically:

1. What was so special about him?
2. Why did he appear to Shannon, wet and muttering something? It wasn't Smokey because Walt doesn't die.

His character seemed to be pretty important to the main story in the first two seasons but it was completely dropped. Even when Michael made other appearances, Walt didn't seem important anymore. At all. I'd love to hear what his story was supposed to be.
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It was a vision manifested by the man in black not the man in black himself
 
There are certain questions that will never be answered. It is what it is.
Maybe you can fault the writers for it, maybe they bit off more than they could chew but overall I think that they answered most of the important questions and as a big fan of the series I feel satisfied. It's important to keep in mind that this series took place over 6 years, it's unreasonable to expect every question over that span of time to have an answer. I prefer that some of the mysteries are left mysterious, it will only make the post-show discussion (after you guys check out) and my re-watches even better.
 
Nameless said:
Take those last 10 minutes and fit it within the context of the series, especially the episodes this season and the last few last season and IMO its even more poignant.

These people were brought to the island for a purpose that wasn't their own. And even though they grew in profound ways and in many cases found themselves it was still under a calling that wasn't their own. I like to believe that as part of their journey they gave their consciousnesses(selves) not only the opportunity to finish the personal growth cut short or altered by the influence their Island destiny had on their lives, but also to find each other as well. It's up to interpretation if Jughead was responsible for the flashsideways, everything the narrative has told us combined with Christian's conversation with Jack leads me to that conclusion. Either way the flashsideways goes hand in hand with everything we've gotten to know about these characters.

Read Zeliard's thoughts several pages back. He sums it up nicely as do duckroll and J.H.

Most have LOST gaf have been saying it's all about the characters from the beginning. Sure there were things I was personally curious about that didn't get touched on, but there are no gaping holes in the plot because the writers chose not to. And I'm fine with that.
Click to expand...

This all doesn't matter; a post-death purgatorial state where characters awaken, remember their lives and what meant most to them, and then march off into whatever afterlife awaits them could be mangled into an ending to any long story. It's absurdly generic and insulting. It could be stripped from Season 6 without much consequence to the main storyline of the show. Isn't that just a little troubling?

I understand that this universe/world/(we really need an official name for this since both Sideways and Purgatory aren't cutting it :lol, so I'll use LA X) allowed the writers to complete their ruminations and developments on some characters, but again, isn't that troubling? We need to jump to a world outside of the main world, redress the characters in a different situation to see how they complete their arcs? If LA X were more integrated somehow, more crucial to the developments in the main world, if they mattered to the main world/timeline, if something carried over aside from Desmond's rare speeches over the last two episodes, I could begin to attach some weight to what the LA X characters were going through. But none of that matters to me. The story ended with Jack's eyes closing, and the side story we've been led to believe was somehow crucial to the larger story of Lost wound up being a one-size-fits-all epilogue that was interspersed throughout the main body of the show with red herrings all over the place. I don't think it's hard to see why fans should be irate about that.

And again, I'm not quarreling at all about not being given answers to so many of the mysteries as I discuss this. Sure, some more would have been nice (and man, they certainly had the time to do it and didn't), but really, this would have been a great finale for me if the latter half of the season went in a different direction and prevented the last 10 minutes from playing out the way they did, imo.
 
I do get kind of annoyed when people ask why aaron was so special, when it's been said multiple times he wasn't by darlton, and the psychic in the show was proven to be a fraud
 
At least the ending makes for good conversation with people who don't watch and just wanna know what happened:
Friend says (3:35 PM):
how'd it end
was it all just a dream?

I says (3:36 PM):
everybody dies

Friend says (3:36 PM):
...
the fuck?

I says (3:37 PM):
that's how it ends
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It's nice that "everybody dies" can be used as not a joke spoiler.
 
layzie1989 said:
I do get kind of annoyed when people ask why aaron was so special, when it's been said multiple times he wasn't by darlton, and the psychic in the show was proven to be a fraud
Click to expand...

It was clearly something they planned on being important really early in the show, but they must have decided against it and used the season 3 (?) scene with the psychic to shut it down.
 
IrrelevantNotch said:
Pffft, noob. Clearly the show went way over your head. The symbology in the finale gave me and my girlfriend double orgasms it was so good. Anyone who needed the answers spoon fed to them through fancy dialogue and exposition isn't good enough for this show.



What a douche. He could've at least yelled SPOILER ALERT before saying that.
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Oh, I get it nowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

I need a towel.
 
Snuggler said:
There are certain questions that will never be answered.
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I could actually do with fewer questions being left unanswered. It seems to me that the writers were trying to tie a nice bow around the entire post-crash lives of the cast and answer the more pressing questions, but in doing so highlighted (and created) strange oversights. I would have been happier with "well... it was the island doing what the island does" than with what we ended up with.
 
Personally, I'm not a fan of alternate timelines. My biggest fear with the flashsideways was that they would end up as valid as the island timeline, and in effect make S1-5 merely a posibility. So the way they did the bait and switch really pleased me.
 
Kimosabae said:
The performances are one of the main reasons I don't believe it will hold up. IMO, they are far from timeless.
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O'Quinn, Emmerson, Cusick, Fox, Kim, Mr. Eko (forget his real name) and Holloway (in the latter half of the series) all had spectacular, unforgettable performances.

Mr. Friendly, Goodspeed, Penny and Ethan (creeped me out) had outstanding deliveries in their brief time on the show.

I think some of these performances were iconic even.. O'Quinn and Emmerson in particular set the modern standard in my mind for the tragic hero and the Loki-like manipulating evil bastard.
 
Snuggler said:
It was clearly something they planned on being important really early in the show, but they must have decided against it and used the season 3 (?) scene with the psychic to shut it down.
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yeah exactly my thoughts
 
Oh man, even after Jacks "I will kill you" speech, Mr. Eko's "You are not my brother" line is still the most badass in Lost history.
It's one of those moments that actually are enhanced by future episodes.
 
I might be out of my realm here and this may have been discussed before, but in the recap episode they showed how Jacob had touched each of the losties/candidates earlier before they came to the island. This kind of explains the pregnancies, as the only women to have children are those from women that were "blessed"/touched by Jacob.

Jacob never really had a connection to Dharma/Others, so he didn't really care about them.
 
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