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[RichardAM]

So why did Locke kill Naomi in cold blood? Didn't fit his character imo and it never really explained it, or I'm not remembering :/

Taller Ghost Walt / MIB

 

[Catalix]

Evergreen discussion of the same shit we've disussed 100 times, you mean :lol Thats why I havent posted in here pretty much all week, and pretty soon wont ever again. We've charted the ends of the earth now. All thats left to do is retread ground.

Think I'll wait outside the church. Help others reach enlightenment

 

[cyclonekruse]

Ah gotcha that makes sense. Thanks for the answers man.

No problem. No one wants to feel like Locke felt as he was being strangled--"I don't understand."

Thank god that's the case. I'm not ready to let go just yet, and honestly I don't have to. LOST was designed for evergreen discussion.

I'm not ready to let go either. But that's partially because I got some friends hooked on the show and we are in the middle of a rewatch (well, rewatch for me...first time through for them). We get through 3-4 episodes every time we get together. We are through "Orientation." It's bizarre having (most of) the answers as you watch. Lots of things also have new significance. For example, "See you in another life, brotha."

 

[Catalix]

lol that's probably the best way to do a re-watch.

Experiencing the show through the eyes of a newbie is almost as fun as watching it yourself the first time. Almost.

 

[cyclonekruse]

Yeah. When we were watching the Season 2 opening and they realized that the guy working out to Mama Cass was actually in the Hatch one of my friends went "What?! There was a guy down there?! I thought it was a Locke flashback where he actually had hair."

I laughed. It was great. Though not quite as great as when I first experienced the same feeling myself, like you said. "Almost."

 

[dave is ok]

No. The sideways stories weren't, by any stretch, unimportant at all.

Come on.

That's just fanboy bullshit talking. They were filler.

 

[dave is ok]

Taller Ghost Walt / MIB

MIB could only take the form of dead people. Why could he show up as Walt all of a sudden?

 

[Blader]

Come on.

That's just fanboy bullshit talking. They were filler.

Uh, no, they weren't. The whole point of the sideways world was to act as a place where they could work through issues they weren't able to in life, and the flashes throughout the season showed us exactly that.

Do you any idea what filler even is?

 

[Catalix]

I'm surprised that the final season only reaffirmed one of the earliest fan theories I wholeheartedly bought into. That "the Light/EM energy" was somehow the physical manifestation of humanity's collective consciousness. A boundless reality-bending force composed of pure human will.

There have been many real world studies (like what DHARMA was doing) about the EM energy a human brain generates on a daily basis, and the energy's relationship to individuals that are considered "clairvoyant." I believe the "special" people on LOST are able to tap into the Island's unlimited cache of mind-over-matter energy (often times subconsciously), and influence the world around them. Like how Walt suddenly became a knife throwing expert after Locke instructed him to "see it in your mind's eye", or people wanting to be healed sooo badly that it actually happens.

Hell, even the very creation of the sideways world could be attributed to this. It'd be the ultimate expression of that reality-warping power.

Actually, I think that was one of the reasons people gave for why DHARMA chose to broadcast the numbers from the Island. Because if you were able to cast a subliminal message at the physical location of "humanity's brain," it would naturally reach every person on the planet. You can even use it as excuse for why the numbers appeared everywhere. The broadcast seeped into humanity's "collective brain," and they subconsciously started to project their "will" onto the world around them, in subtle ways.

So that's my more pseudoscience-y interpretation of The Light, I guess =P

 

[big ander]

Come on.

That's just fanboy bullshit talking. They were filler.

Bladers right. It was most certainly important to the story.
Whether or not you liked that story is a different matter entirely.

 

[Plumbob]

Uh, no, they weren't. The whole point of the sideways world was to act as a place where they could work through issues they weren't able to in life, and the flashes throughout the season showed us exactly that.

Do you any idea what filler even is?

So, for instance, Jack working out his issues with the son he never had.

Nope. No filler there.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

So, for instance, Jack working out his issues with the son he never had.

Nope. No filler there.

Yeah because things that are important for the characters are filler.....

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

So, for instance, Jack working out his issues with the son he never had.

Nope. No filler there.

He was working out the issues he had with his actual father and his relentless shame and fear of failure.

So, no. No filler there.

 

[Dilly]

He was working out the issues he had with his actual father and his relentless shame and fear of failure.

So, no. No filler there.

He worked out his daddy issues.

 

[Iceman]

So, for instance, Jack working out his issues with the son he never had.

Nope. No filler there.

That was Jack working out his daddy issues.. he never did get a chance to while he was living.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

It was Jack working out his kiddie issues.

Spoiler

because Jack was a pedophile in his real life.

 

[Catalix]

He worked out his daddy issues.

When? He never got a chance to reconcile with Christian before he died.

 

[Ferrio]

When? He never got a chance to reconcile with Christian before he died.

Through his faux son.

 

[brandonh83]

When? He never got a chance to reconcile with Christian before he died.

It's sort of like the other way around.

 

[big ander]

When? He never got a chance to reconcile with Christian before he died.

He came to terms with them after he died.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Yeah, a better phrasing would be "Work through the issues he got from his father's treatment of him," not "issues with his father."

 

[Catalix]

Uh, I think I read dilly's post wrong. I thought he was refuting what BB said.

I thought he was implying before he died.

 

[dave is ok]

How did Charlie work out his issues? How about Kate?

The theory is nice and all, but it wasn't worth 50% of almost every episode of this season. Not to mention that working through the issues (which, personally, I didn't see very much of) aren't what caused them to become enlightened and move on - it was usually just a single act of recollection, wiggling a toe even!

I think you guys are assuming that the sideways stuff will hold up on repeat viewings and retroactively declaring it to be some masterstroke of genius. I say it won't.. and it wasn't.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

How did Charlie work out his issues? How about Kate?

The theory is nice and all, but it wasn't worth 50% of almost every episode of this season. Not to mention that working through the issues (which, personally, I didn't see very much of) aren't what caused them to become enlightened and move on - it was usually just a single act of recollection, wiggling a toe even!

I think you guys are assuming that the sideways stuff will hold up on repeat viewings and retroactively declaring it to be some masterstroke of genius. I say it won't.. and it wasn't.

As someone who is currently rewatching S6, I respectfully disagree. The flash sidewayses are much more resonant (to me) now that I know what's really going on.

So, in short, you didn't like them and they will always suck, to you. Other people look at them differently, and disagree with you.

Like me.

 

[big ander]

How did Charlie work out his issues? How about Kate?

The theory is nice and all, but it wasn't worth 50% of almost every episode of this season. Not to mention that working through the issues (which, personally, I didn't see very much of) aren't what caused them to become enlightened and move on - it was usually just a single act of recollection, wiggling a toe even!

I think you guys are assuming that the sideways stuff will hold up on repeat viewings and retroactively declaring it to be some masterstroke of genius. I say it won't.. and it wasn't.

It was working through those issues that allowed them to become enlightened. If Locke hadn't let go, he wouldn't have accepted the offer for the surgery that enlightened him. If Kate hadn't stopped running, she wouldn't have become attached to Claire and been there when he was born. Sayid showed that he had good left in him when he helped Shannon and Boone, which let him be enlightened.
It's not just a nice theory, it's one that works. And I haven't seen anybody say it's a masterstroke of genius. It's just a clever way of telling a story that now makes sense with the right amount of analyzing. I agree that most of it won't be interesting upon rewatch. But that's more a matter of opinion that a slight towards the intention and function of the story.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

It was working through those issues that allowed them to become enlightened. If Locke hadn't let go, he wouldn't have accepted the offer for the surgery that enlightened him. If Kate hadn't stopped running, she wouldn't have become attached to Claire and been there when he was born. Sayid showed that he had good left in him when he helped Shannon and Boone, which let him be enlightened.
It's not just a nice theory, it's one that works. And I haven't seen anybody say it's a masterstroke of genius. It's just a clever way of telling a story that now makes sense with the right amount of analyzing. I agree that most of it won't be interesting upon rewatch. But that's more a matter of opinion that a slight towards the intention and function of the story.

Nailed it like Sayid installing a shingle in Honduras.

 

[Iceman]

I think you guys are assuming that the sideways stuff will hold up on repeat viewings and retroactively declaring it to be some masterstroke of genius. I say it won't.. and it wasn't.

Filler vs. Shakespeare

I think we're collectively saying that the events in the sideways world/timeline were not filler. It had a plot, there were obstacles and characters grew through the resolution of that story.

I'm not sure anyone is arguing that the sideways storyline was the best part of the show.. I can't even imagine that anyone (here*) has gone back and watched through the whole season again in order to make a final judgement on the sideways timeline.

*I wouldn't be completely surprised though.

 

[dave is ok]

It was working through those issues that allowed them to become enlightened. If Locke hadn't let go, he wouldn't have accepted the offer for the surgery that enlightened him. If Kate hadn't stopped running, she wouldn't have become attached to Claire and been there when he was born. Sayid showed that he had good left in him when he helped Shannon and Boone, which let him be enlightened.
It's not just a nice theory, it's one that works. And I haven't seen anybody say it's a masterstroke of genius. It's just a clever way of telling a story that now makes sense with the right amount of analyzing. I agree that most of it won't be interesting upon rewatch. But that's more a matter of opinion that a slight towards the intention and function of the story.

Eh. I guess I just don't buy it. People saying Locke felt guilty over his Dad's death made no sense to me, Shannon being the love of Sayid's life made no sense to me (and I can't even remember him helping Shannon or Boone - so I guess that one didn't have much of an impact). Kate still ran, the entire flash sideways, until she got caught. Apparently she was innocent in the X universe but the show never bothered to tell us that. I just think they ran out of places to flash and sideways was a dumb idea altogether.

They also gave up on explaining shit this season. They just would have a character turn omniscient for a second and tell you the "whats" but not "whys". Oh the MIB can't change forms anymore! OK Illana! Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Blader]

I'm surprised that the final season only reaffirmed one of the earliest fan theories I wholeheartedly bought into. That "the Light/EM energy" was somehow the physical manifestation of humanity's collective consciousness. A boundless reality-bending force composed of pure human will.

There have been many real world studies (like what DHARMA was doing) about the EM energy a human brain generates on a daily basis, and the energy's relationship to individuals that are considered "clairvoyant." I believe the "special" people on LOST are able to tap into the Island's unlimited cache of mind-over-matter energy (often times subconsciously), and influence the world around them. Like how Walt suddenly became a knife throwing expert after Locke instructed him to "see it in your mind's eye", or people wanting to be healed sooo badly that it actually happens.

Hell, even the very creation of the sideways world could be attributed to this. It'd be the ultimate expression of that reality-warping power.

Actually, I think that was one of the reasons people gave for why DHARMA chose to broadcast the numbers from the Island. Because if you were able to cast a subliminal message at the physical location of "humanity's brain," it would naturally reach every person on the planet. You can even use it as excuse for why the numbers appeared everywhere. The broadcast seeped into humanity's "collective brain," and they subconsciously started to project their "will" onto the world around them, in subtle ways.

So that's my more pseudoscience-y interpretation of The Light, I guess =P

Almost as if the island was kind of like a magic box, where anything you imagined could appear.

 

[KevinCow]

I think you guys are assuming that the sideways stuff will hold up on repeat viewings and retroactively declaring it to be some masterstroke of genius. I say it won't.. and it wasn't.

The flashbacks in the first three seasons don't really hold up upon repeat viewings. Would you say they're filler, too?

 

[Blader]

How did Charlie work out his issues? How about Kate?

The theory is nice and all, but it wasn't worth 50% of almost every episode of this season. Not to mention that working through the issues (which, personally, I didn't see very much of) aren't what caused them to become enlightened and move on - it was usually just a single act of recollection, wiggling a toe even!

I think you guys are assuming that the sideways stuff will hold up on repeat viewings and retroactively declaring it to be some masterstroke of genius. I say it won't.. and it wasn't.

It's not a theory, it's the whole purpose of the sideways.

Jack couldn't reconcile with his father, so he conjures up a son to work out his issues through.
Jack and Claire couldn't have a sibling relationship in the island, so they have one in the sideways world.
Locke felt guilty over how his relationship with Helen ended, and ultimately her death, so he rectifies it in the sideways by being engaged to her.
Hurley felt guilty about all the havoc his lottery money was having others, so in his sideways life, he uses that same money to help people.
Sawyer felt guilty over the harm he caused as a con man (specifically, killing an innocent man in cold blood), so in the sideways, he plays the cop and gets a chance to do good.

And so on.

 

[brandonh83]

Nailed it like Sayid installing a shingle in Honduras.

:lol

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

:lol

Christ, I was beginning to think no one was going to get that one.

 

[Plywood]

Christ, I was beginning to think no one was going to get that one.

I got it, but I just didn't reply. :[

Next time, I will support you.

 

[brandonh83]

Christ, I was beginning to think no one was going to get that one.

Well that episode is fresh on my mind considering I just watched it a couple of weeks ago. But yeah, when I read your post I saw a picture of Sayid wailing a hammer into a nail on the roof with NAILED written at the bottom in impact font :lol

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I'm just kidding, guys. I know I'm hilarious. And that's enough.

 

[big ander]

I'm just kidding, guys. I know I'm hilarious. And that's enough.

You'd have to be hilarious to help run this

Spoiler

creeper post

 

[neoism]

What the fuck are you guys still doing in here? Move on, motherfuckas

but...but

 

[Gyrian]

I thought one of you might like this.

I've made a GAF-ready avatar of Faraday's note, feel free to use it. :]

 

[gdt]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that auction.

I would kill to have some LOST props.

(Jughead, Locke's knife/machete, etc etc etc)

Edit: I also want the John Locke makeup kit.

 

[Gyrian]

That's right. I wouldn't mind having the donkey wheel attached to one of my walls.

 

[gdt]

Dude....awesome.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Is all this at that NYC museum? I'm thinking of going on Saturday. It's the last day of the exhibit I think.

 

[JGS]

How did Charlie work out his issues? How about Kate?

The theory is nice and all, but it wasn't worth 50% of almost every episode of this season. Not to mention that working through the issues (which, personally, I didn't see very much of) aren't what caused them to become enlightened and move on - it was usually just a single act of recollection, wiggling a toe even!

I think you guys are assuming that the sideways stuff will hold up on repeat viewings and retroactively declaring it to be some masterstroke of genius. I say it won't.. and it wasn't.

I said this thousands of posts ago and still think it's the case.

The sideways were not about working out anything. The characters were largely the same from beginning to end in the sideways with the exception of a few and Locke in particular was helped mightily by Desmond running over him.

Jack did not have the problem communicating with his son. His son had the problem communicating with him. The kid was basing this on past when his parents were married, not anything we saw in the episode which repeatedly had Jack, like good dads do, trying to connect with the kid and the kid rejecting it. That was clear as day in that episode so not sure why everyone is saying the other way around.

The changes that occurred with all them had to do with the influence they had on each other in the sideways not on inner turmoils. They were in the Sideways because they were ready to move on together. Otherwise they would be ghosts like Michael.

The working out stuff took years in the real world and would take years in the sideways as evidenced by Sawyer's unfulfilled story.

I loved the sideways a lot more after the finale because it always bugged me that Locke was alive and I couldn't figure out how that could be unless it was a dream. Having the "why" answered was a load off my mind.

 

[Apoc29]

Desmond used his constant (Penny) to stop his brain from exploding, but what did Faraday need his constant for? He wasn't afflicted as badly as Desmond. Or was the whole purpose just to tell us that "something" went wrong?

 

[Stridone]

What the fuck are you guys still doing in here? Move on, motherfuckas

WHY DO YOU FIND IT SO EASY?

 

[gdt]

Desmond used his constant (Penny) to stop his brain from exploding, but what did Faraday need his constant for? He wasn't afflicted as badly as Desmond. Or was the whole purpose just to tell us that "something" went wrong?

Farraday time traveled all through S5. He was fine specifically because Desmond was his Constant.

Another neat thing, Locke didn't nosebleed because Richard was his Constant.

 

[KevinCow]

Desmond used his constant (Penny) to stop his brain from exploding, but what did Faraday need his constant for? He wasn't afflicted as badly as Desmond. Or was the whole purpose just to tell us that "something" went wrong?

I think it was foreshadowing something that they decided against doing, like the outrigger shootout.

Other than that, I think it was just to show that he'd written something about Desmond in his journal years ago.

Farraday time traveled all through S5. He was fine specifically because Desmond was his Constant.

Another neat thing, Locke didn't nosebleed because Richard was his Constant.

Faraday and the rest of the Losties were okay because they hadn't been on the island for very long. Charlotte died because she lived on the island for most of her childhood. Miles got nosebleeds because he was born on the island and lived there for a while, but not as long as Charlotte. I don't think it had anything to do with constants.

 

[Archaix]

Desmond used his constant (Penny) to stop his brain from exploding, but what did Faraday need his constant for? He wasn't afflicted as badly as Desmond. Or was the whole purpose just to tell us that "something" went wrong?

Faraday's brain was fried from time travel experiments. He was relatively fine after he found the Desmond message. He went nuts again once Charlotte died.

 

[Blader]

Faraday subjected himself to a lot of radiation in his experiments, which ended up destroying his memory. The only reason it didn't kill him was because he was using Desmond as his constant.