LOST 06.17/18/18.5: "The End" (Everything Else Was Just Progress)

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Carlisle said:
It made sense to me. I don't think he was saying that's when Jack literally died, though. I was thinking it's where Jack's consciousness took him to the moment he died. It took him to the place in his life where it branched towards the path leading to his death....which is when the plane started shaking and ended up crashing. Only this time it shook and when it didn't crash, when this path effectively "split" from what actually happened... that was his post-life consciousness filling in and beginning the journey to reunite with "the most important people he ever knew" in the afterlife.
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this ! that's how I understood it too.

jack closed his eyes, died, and bam, other timeline where he meets up with the most important people of his life
 
I see a lot of people having a hard time wrapping their heads around the ending and the nature of the flashsideways:


-Normally, if you die you either move on or you don't. i.e. Michael and the rest of the Whispers.
-The Flashsideways isn't just a normal "god created" pre-afterlife where the Losties "waited on each other"
-Like Christian said it was "all real". It was a place that "they had created together"
-Jughead did indeed detonate but you can't change time. What Happened Happened. You can't have an alternate reality because that would mean you exist simultaneously in two different places which is impossible.
-The only way the consciousnesses of these people could exist in a different timeline is AFTER they had died in the original one.
-Of course they didn't all die at the same time. Jack died at the end of the episode, Kate, Hurley etc.. presumably went on to live long lives.
-Because of this the X-Timeline didn't have a precise starting point or place in time. It didn't it exist until it could.
- Call "X" whatever you want but it is a time line. Electromagneitcism wouldn't have sent Desmond to "pre heaven".
-And it's not pointless to the narrative. In fact Season 5 and the push to blow up jughead all the more powerful.
 
RubxQub said:
You're creating realities that didn't necessarily exist.

For you (and others), you were theorizing because it was fun to think that you were going to figure it out. You were going to be able to figure out how the show was eventually going to portray itself and you could pat yourself on the back for being the best theorizer of them all...
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I was never a theorizer personally -- I didn't have the time or frankly the inclination. I didn't have an intensely vested interest in the show like many did (a la my buddy Mike/Striker Obi and his "Great American Lost Re-Watch" or whatever some of you guys did)... I was just along for the ride. I loved the show early on in large part due to the action and mystery involved so I personally was left unfulfilled. If you weren't, that's great for you and others like you. Obviously, many were.

I stopped loving Lost a very long time ago -- the breaks and the absolutely terrible season 3 (I think it was 3) really pulled me away from the show as a whole. At that point, it was just about the ending and answering questions... and they almost all went unanswered. This ended up being a blessing in the end because due to this fact, I can let it go and focus on the next show personally. I do find it somewhat surprising that so many who did enjoy the character aspect of the show more than anything are so forgiving.
 
I loved it. I'm satisfied with the ending. I don't think answers to every question about "how and why things work the way they do?" would add that much (especially emotionally). Perhaps the show was marketed as a great mystery, but it really was about a group of people and the dynamic between them.
 
BobFromPikeCreek said:
Can someone explain for me:

What happened with the whole smoke monster being a security system thing?
Why did it sound all mechanical and roboty?
Why did it just randomly kill people and not assume one of their identities to begin his plan sooner?
Why was the smoke monster randomly killing to being with?


Or are these just things we're supposed to forget?
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Ben alluded to this in (I think) What They Died For. Basically he was mislead to believe Smokey was a security system that he could summon. It had a lot to do with why Jacob was so bad at his job as he never really explained this stuff to them as Smokey allowed them to believe this and reinforced it by letting them "summon" him. He was basically seen as a deity which was why he was tied to Anubis in the hieroglyphics.
It wasn't only mechanical and roboty. There was the printer receipt sound but there's also a Cicada sound and another that is a concert pitch A at 440 hertz.
Based on what we see, Smokey could never directly kill one of Jacob's candidates. Which was the whole thing about Jack telling Sawyer not to cut the wire. He couldn't kill them himself but he could get them to kill each other. He needed someone important enough to the group and Jacob to use. It took 4 months for him to get Locke to turn that wheel.
More than likely he would have killed everyone if it was possible and would have led him off the island. All you can go off on this is what you think was his reasoning for doing anything. What happens to the show had he not started killing random islanders?
 
Some great quotes and insight from the IGN.com review, which gave the ep a 10/10:
The brilliance of this conclusion is that it will inspire the very debate that Locke and Jack had throughout the series. It's the 'Man of Faith/Man of Science' argument thrust upon the masses. We're left either satisfied to put our faith in the conclusion we received -- which didn't delve into the "whys" and instead focused on closing out the stories of these characters -- or disappointed that we will never know why this mysterious island was so important. Much is left up to interpretation.
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Jack's final descent into the cave was the very moment he was destined for. It's just as it should be, Jack is relying on an act of faith to save his friends. He has no idea what he will find inside the cave or even if he will be able to reverse what Desmond has done; all he has is his faith. Once everything is restored, his laugh as the waterfall reactivates was a great little moment. I really want to believe that he was laughing at the ridiculous nature of the situation and at the fact that he will never know why any of this has happened. His destiny was to put a cork into a hole to save his friends. It's ridiculous but no less fitting given the evolution of the narrative over the course of the series.
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The truth behind flash-sideways was probably kept ambiguous in order for Lindelof and Cuse to explore several different possible endings but there were a few hints that suggested the eventual outcome that we witnessed. Most notably, the happy endings many of the Losties experienced on the flash-sideways side. Those who were struggling to find peace were setting up their own barriers and keeping themselves from being happy. Sayid wouldn't allow himself to believe he was anything more than a killer and Locke continued to struggle with his disability. They never allowed themselves an opportunity to let go, instead, they let their weaknesses define them.
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The flashes of realization that many of the characters experienced were wonderfully handled. One by one, the denizens of the flash-sideways universe were discovering who they really were in an emotionally jarring moment of understanding. This experience was conveyed beautifully through flashes to emotional highpoints during their time on the island.
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I just watched it a second time, and cried my eyes out again.

One of the things i loved most was how awesome Kate was in this episode, just came out of nowhere.
 
It was a great episode, but really had huge holes.
I know people are going to be all on the defense because they are sentimental that their favorite show is ending, but most will admit it down the line.
Maybe in the end it is better not having more explained, it kind of fits.
Either way, great episode and send off for one of the best shows of all time.


Oh and Lapidus lives bitches!
Lapidus and Richard off in Cabo throwing back tequila while Richard grows in his grey Lapidus do.

Or did Richard go back to his superhero gig?

Batmanuelpub.jpg
 
ostrichKing said:
Why was Helen not with Locke in the end?
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Christian lays this all out: their timne on the island was the most important time in their lives. The Losties needed to reunite to move on, and Helen wasnt one of them.
 
I honestly don't understand the people upset about them not answering so many questions.

I'm pretty damn satisfied. They explained most of my big questions, and even spent an entire episode explaining shit that I didn't really care about (Across the Sea).

Perhaps I'm just not as hung up on the island's mysteries as some.
 
The brilliance of this conclusion is that it will inspire the very debate that Locke and Jack had throughout the series. It's the 'Man of Faith/Man of Science' argument thrust upon the masses. We're left either satisfied to put our faith in the conclusion we received -- which didn't delve into the "whys" and instead focused on closing out the stories of these characters -- or disappointed that we will never know why this mysterious island was so important. Much is left up to interpretation.
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Pretty much sums it up.
 
Drealmcc0y said:
I just watched it a second time, and cried my eyes out again.

One of the things i loved most was how awesome Kate was in this episode, just came out of nowhere.
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I didn't cry, but I must say, they did a lot to make me warm to Kate. I've disliked her since pretty much the start, but I really liked her this episode.
 
Solo said:
Christian lays this all out: their timne on the island was the most important time in their lives. The Losties needed to reunite to move on, and Helen wasnt one of them.
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Well, Penny was at the Church, but she was connected to the Island.
 
I can wait for somebody to produce the REAL ending for us all
I'm too lazy
. All it will be is a power point presentation with bullet point questions. Then 8-foot Walt slaps the spacebar while yelling "Bam!" revealing the answers.
 
pxleyes said:
And it did. Go back look at what you knew going into Season 6. I'm sorry every hour wasn't a sit-down Q&A session.
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It doesn't have to be, but they had every single opportunities to, at the very least, recognize most of it. What frustrated me the most this season, and what me realize early enough that they wouldn't answer much in the end, is that characters that supposedly had answers would literally refuse to divulge them when asked. It that's simple. They just kept pushing the mystery forward until there was no time left to explain anything.

When season 5 ended, I was hoping season 6 would come up with something clever to answer all the loophole stuff. It barely even scratched the surface.
 
Solo said:
Looks like being a Fan of Faith has served me well.
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I think me being more on the science side is why I enjoy a show like Fringe. You get all of that great character development and acting as well as some decent explanations for the "why?"
 
RubxQub said:
If that's what you want to call it, go for it.

All I know is that I'm on cloud 9 after last night and you're in the depths of hell. Surely we can agree I'm happier than you are, right?

...and who wouldn't want to be happy?
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I'm glad a TV show gives you that much happiness. I'm pretty happy today too, regardless of the shitty ending Lost had.
 
Solo said:
Christian lays this all out: their timne on the island was the most important time in their lives. The Losties needed to reunite to move on, and Helen wasnt one of them.
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Miles wasn't important enough to get an invite. :(
 
TheGreatDave said:
I just about lost it at the "You're not John Locke, you disgrace his name by wearing his face" line. God damn Jack and Locke complete each other.
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Same here.
 
TheGreatDave said:
I just about lost it at the "You're not John Locke, you disgrace his name by wearing his face" line. God damn Jack and Locke complete each other.
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They really are ying and yang, each needing eachother to finish the job. Locke needed Jack`s support and acceptance, and Jack needed Locke`s resolve and guidance.
 
VistraNorrez said:
It just seems like priorities are out of wack when the concern is for peripheral information. Maybe that's a failure of no emotional attachment to the characters. I can understand that. I think a case could be made for not liking the characters. No one likes everyone. So the only thing one can look at is the mystery. And there is no way a mystery can satisfy everyone. We all have too different of ideas for success across the board. And so if you don't like the characters and don't like the mystery, then yes the show will fail.

But I think it's so valid when the emotion works for a viewer. I think emotion trumps just about anything else. It's what every single human can understand at an instinctual level. It doesn't need an answer. It just hits you.
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To me its very meta. The people who didn't like the ending may not have believed in life after death or were not willing to contemplate their own deaths and life afterwards. Once you do that your whole perspective on the world changes, and its a hard thing to do.
 
witness said:
Really is a fantastic review.

Ugh I kept thinking about the episode last night and crying, glad to know I wasn't the only one.
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I got a tear talking about it with the girlfriend today. The ending montage is just so damn great.


Solo said:
They really are ying and yang, each needing eachother to finish the job. Locke needed Jack`s support and acceptance, and Jack needed Locke`s resolve and guidance.
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Exactly. And the great thing is their relationship has really been the backbone of the show. Locke didn't die for nothing. Jack died for something.
 
CrankyJay said:
I think me being more on the science side is why I enjoy a show like Fringe. You get all of that great character development and acting as well as some decent explanations for the "why?"
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I haven't seen Fringe for a few months, but I'd say it's as far away from science as Lost is, but it actually pretends to be science which actually frustrated me more.
 
shagg_187 said:
Evangeline Lilly retweeted my post. My life is now officially complete!

*dies with Vincent*
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Hate to burst the bubble, but that's fake. She doesn't have twitter/facebook.

One of her charity things had a myspace at one point, it was hers with her roommates at the time, not sure if it's still up though.
 
CrankyJay said:
I think me being more on the science side is why I enjoy a show like Fringe. You get all of that great character development and acting as well as some decent explanations for the "why?"
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I love Fringe, but it's cast of characters is nowhere near as mutlifaceted or just plain enjoyable as Lost's. Save for maybe Walter.

Fringe will never ever in the slightest affect me like this episode did.
 
besada said:
It's like seeing the reaction to the Dark Tower's ending all over again.
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I don't know. Most people who actually understood the ending (unlike this professional writer and, wow, I can't believe it's still up) and are bitching, are not bitching about the conclusion to the alt-verse and its implications on the rest of the show. It was fantastic and gave real closure to the characters in fascinating ways. Most of the whiners are bitching about the lack of answers about Smokey and so on. The overwhelming majority of the end, up until where Jack lies down among the bamboo sticks again was perfect, but, y'know, they left a lot of people dangling with blue balls getting there. Although it is fitting, as I said earlier, that a great mystery show like this goes out remaining something of an enigma. And as time passes, I'm getting more and more okay with that.

As to the Dark Tower allusions, ignoring the more obvious Narnia ones: the "getting ready to move on" aspect of their shared purgatory is very much like the ending in DT, where
Roland is forced to loop endlessly through his journey to the Dark Tower until he completes it with his entire ka-tet intact - when he learns that those he cares about most can become as important to him as his obsession and that he needs them just as much as his goal, and, in fact, needs them to achieve his goal and "move on" in a sense
- and you see that specifically in how the Losties have to work through their individual issues and acknowledge and appreciate and treasure their community to pass through into the light or Source or whatever it is that finds earthly manifestation at the Heart of the Island (which is, again, sort of like the Dark Tower). The influences to be found run thick indeed.
 
Liara T'Soni said:
Hate to burst the bubble, but that's fake. She doesn't have twitter/facebook.

One of her charity things had a myspace at one point, it was hers with her roommates at the time, not sure if it's still up though.
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..it was just purgatory?!
 
One thing I don't get, though: why was Michael doomed to eternally wander the island, but not Ben or Sayid? They both murdered far more people than Michael. Because they redeemed themselves? Michael's redemption was very similar to Sayid's, though: he blew himself up to save other people's lives.
 
KevinCow said:
One thing I don't get, though: why was Michael doomed to eternally wander the island, but not Ben or Sayid? They both murdered far more people than Michael. Because they redeemed themselves? Michael's redemption was very similar to Sayid's, though: he blew himself up to save other people's lives.
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Probably because of Walt. That was the last thing he said to Hurley after all. He obviously feels he needs his son's forgiveness.


gdt5016 said:
BTW, I'm in athiest, doesn't stop me from loving the ending.
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Same. I mean, it's hardly religious as such.
 
gdt5016 said:
I love Fringe, but it's cast of characters is nowhere near as mutlifaceted or just plain enjoyable as Lost's. Save for maybe Walter.

Fringe will never ever in the slightest affect me like this episode did.
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Okay, I'll backtrack a little bit. The character development is obviously WAY better in LOST...but I feel Fringe has done a good enough job to make me feel emotional if something were to happen to Walter or Peter (I'm still 2 episodes behind just in case something happened).

I did get emotional watching last night...and like I said before, I don't think it was a bad ending...I just feel like I wanted more. Did I want more explanation into something? Or am I just confusing that with my sadness that this journey is over?
 
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