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[Son of Godzilla]

I just wanted to say, before I come back in a few hours or a few days or whatever the fuck and be all negative nancy, that I'm drunk and I've spent the last two days watching a lot of Season 2 and the finales and the Des-aweso-mond episodes, and I'm still not ready for this show to be over.

Although, because I'm me and I have to get in a barb somewhere, I've been flat out flabbergasted at how utterly different the early seasons are compared to the show now. For better and worse. I must say I cringed at Matty Fox and his obsession with guns, guns, and guns. And how Locke came off as a complete pussy-willow in... well, the entire fucking show. It's just so different from how it is now. And truth be told, I was actually kinda bored with all the flashbacks, the alterna-stories are so much better.

Truth be told I can't reconcile the things I'm seeing with where the series is at, *at all*. But whatever. I'm prepping myself up for something insane, and not expecting half of it. If it sucks, I'll be sure to pop back in here and say so.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Still not understanding how the plot wasn't resolved, if that's what people are trying to say.

What exactly was resolved? What is special about the island, what "power" does it actually have, why can't women get pregnant, why did Witmore want to control the island, what significance did he even have in the grand scheme of anything, etc

A bunch of vague nods and religious symbolism

 

[Blader]

- Why and how was Jacob able to leave the island to select the candidates, when he or the MiB were not allowed to leave the island?

Jacob can leave the island whenever he wants/needs to. The island is a prison for MIB, not him.

 

[YoungHav]

:lol :lol :lol Yes, If I had seen better programming, I could come to a better conclusion. Sure. Should I rewatch The Wire again? Or what?:lol I'd seriously would love to see your reaction to a Haruki Murakami novel. The amount of "unanswered stuff" would blow your mind and then you'd be telling the critics who praise him that if it were put into a TV show, it would've been gibberish.:lol Seriously man, you can let it go. You don't need to validate your opinion by telling everyone they're less refined than you.

The show you watched apparently tied up all loose ends and never introduced and forfeited plot points out of convenience. Brilliant.

 

[CartridgeBlower]

But then that just raises some major issues itself. If MiB can shape shift into whatever or whoever, then you'd think he'd have done so more often in order to help reach his goal.

This is something that's bothered me throughout all of S6, but I've just learned to live with it -- Smokey is kind of a dumbass.

That, and I don't really believe the writers knew what Smokey was up until S4. Or else he would have been shape-shifting like crazy to trick people into killing each other. Remember when Jack and Sawyer were at each other's throats literally EVERY EPISODE? Smokey could have tipped that scale with one quick Jack impersonation if he had managed to just kill Jack first. He could have started picking them off one by one instead of his grand 'long con,' that even Sawyer admitted was a bit of a stretch in the finale.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

I think I'm comfortable assuming now the Mother was both Smokey and the protector. She got curious as to what she was protecting, check the shit out, got Smokey powers. She understood the consequences there on out. When she had the two children at her disposal, she had a away out for both of her issues. She reconciled her protectorship with Jacob and in death, had set it up so MiB could become Smokey.

 

[Snuggles]

I just wanted to say, before I come back in a few hours or a few days or whatever the fuck and be all negative nancy, that I'm drunk and I've spent the last two days watching a lot of Season 2 and the finales and the Des-aweso-mond episodes, and I'm still not ready for this show to be over.

Yeah, it definitely became a different show between season 1-3 and season 4-6ish but I think you'll be happy with the finale. I liked a lot about the first few seasons but the later seasons is much better in other areas, I could go either way but really no single season is the best, there are only stand out episodes.

It seems like the deciding factor, regarding the finale, is if you care more about the characters or the mysteries of Lost. Enjoy.

I think I'm comfortable assuming now the Mother was both Smokey and the protector. She got curious as to what she was protecting, check the shit out, got Smokey powers. She understood the consequences there on out. When she had the two children at her disposal, she had a away out for both of her issues. She reconciled her protectorship with Jacob and in death, had set it up so MiB could become Smokey.

The mother had to be smokey. First of all, the "thank you" scene. Maybe it was because she was an immortal wishing for mortality like Richardo but the complete destruction of the village at her hands would be impossible for a single woman, she had to be at least something like a smoke monster to do that.

 

[Byakuya769]

What exactly was resolved? What is special about the island, what "power" does it actually have, why can't women get pregnant, why did Witmore want to control the island, what significance did he even have in the grand scheme of anything, etc

A bunch of vague nods and religious symbolism

Though I agree with what you're getting at, I have to tell you that the plot was resolved. Big bad threatened the island, Jack-Jacob stopped him. That was the plot. Anything else is sub-plot/character/mythos related (and unfortunately, all of those things took a back seat for the contrived plot of this season.. now series).

 

[Mgoblue201]

Sooo….

Excuse me, what? How do the last three paragraphs actually have any resemblance to the first several? I was watching two completely separate shows sharing a common cast. I felt as if my six years watching Lost were a complete waste. The island, which should have been the heart of the story and the explanation for the presence of the characters, was relegated to the backburner.

Of course, I had no expectation that every question would be answered (and indeed the ones I presented were a small sampling of the actual questions that weren't answered), but I expected that a superbly crafted show would be given a superbly crafted ending that made sense in light of its past history. Instead I got a touchy-feely piece of nonsense that didn’t resemble the show I’d watched excitedly for six years. The producers announced two years ago that Lost would end this season. They had more prior warning than anyone. There was no excuse for this load of utter crap that they delivered, and I have every right to be upset.

If I hear one more person say "It's about the characters, stupid!" as a defense to why a poor plot played out or was resolved....

Man, why can't a show excel at both? Many have done it before. Lost could very much have been about the characters (and was) and found a way (with 3 years' notice) to plot itself out properly to a better closing series of events.

This article posted earlier covers it nicely:

http://www.chud.com/articles/articl...ST039S-BIG-GNOSTIC-WET-FART-ENDING/Page1.html

Coherency is much more important to me than expansiveness. Sure, Lost wasn't always entirely coherent, but it hinted at a scenario in which a plausible answer could exist, and that's what I liked about it. Shows like Star Trek almost try to create too much of a universe, but hinting at that universe and then stepping back a little is, for a lack of a better word, an artistic choice and a conscious decision. As others have said, Across the Sea was the moment that you realized you weren't going to get an explanation. The purpose of the island could have been revealed at that moment, but instead the writers went for a metaphorical explanation.

I agree with chud in that my largest qualm is that the show did not do something far more daring, but I disagree with the gnosticism comparison because the show subverts many different religions. As someone who is not religious, I don't think that it has to do with heaven. I think that it has to do with the fact that the unknowable, incomprehensible moments are nevertheless some of the most important. In that case it comes down on the side of faith.

It almost rises to the level of metafiction since it raised nearly as many questions as any show in history and then casts them aside and told you narratively that they're just not that important. It doesn't matter how the island does what it does. It's almost a macguffin, and characters were routinely punished for getting too close to its power. What we're left with at the end is the characters and their shared experiences. At least that's what I got from it.

 

[Blader]

This is something that's bothered me throughout all of S6, but I've just learned to live with it -- Smokey is kind of a dumbass.

That, and I don't really believe the writers knew what Smokey was up until S4. Or else he would have been shape-shifting like crazy to trick people into killing each other. Remember when Jack and Sawyer were at each other's throats literally EVERY EPISODE? Smokey could have tipped that scale with one quick Jack impersonation.

Smokey can only take the form of dead people.

 

[jett]

What is special about the island

ELECTROMAGNETISM

what "power" does it actually have

ELECTROMAGNETISM

why can't women get pregnant

ELECTROMAGNETISM

Electromagnetism, the new nanomachines. Shit we even got a Big Boss moment int he finale.

 

[Magnus]

I think I'm comfortable assuming now the Mother was both Smokey and the protector. She got curious as to what she was protecting, check the shit out, got Smokey powers. She understood the consequences there on out. When she had the two children at her disposal, she had a away out for both of her issues. She reconciled her protectorship with Jacob and in death, had set it up so MiB could become Smokey.

Huh.

That's....fascinating. :lol I actually like that a lot.

 

[Alucard]

MacGuffin


I'm sure it's been said, but the thread is large and I'm late to the game.

Does planting as many MacGuffins aka red herrings into a story make it more interesting and better, when the focus is then shifted to something else? Basically, a MacGuffin is a plot device used to rationalize a bait and switch.

Anyway, I'm off to bed. 'Nite. Looking forward to reading through the thirty pages that will undoubtedly be created when I come back to read this again. Also looking forward to more people thinking that everyone was dead after the first crash.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

The show you watched apparently tied up all loose ends and never introduced and forfeited plot points out of convenience. Brilliant.

I am glad you addressed your need to have your opinion validated by talking down to people.

 

[CartridgeBlower]

Smokey can only take the form of dead people.

Yet people here have made the argument that he can appear to you 'as a vision,' such as when Walt was shown to Shannon, or when Kate saw her horse, or Eko saw his brother, etc. So why didn't he essentially keep doing that? Kind of the same thing as taking their form, isn't it? Instead he decided to expose himself, when in actuality he never really had to.

Again, even Sawyer shook his head at the absurdity of Smokey's long con in the finale.

That said, I'm okay with all the inconsistencies the mysteries left in their wake because of the greatness of the finale, but to act like they don't exist is stubborn and slightly silly.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

What exactly was resolved? What is special about the island, what "power" does it actually have, why can't women get pregnant, why did Witmore want to control the island, what significance did he even have in the grand scheme of anything, etc

A bunch of vague nods and religious symbolism

You honestly don't know why Whidmore was obsessed with the Island? Locke said it best himself. That knowledge would eat away at Jack off the island.

Widmore is the father of Penny, who is the love interest of the important Desmond. He's the father of Faraday. The ex of Eloise. He knows that his son dies in the past. Widmore sees how special the island is and wants to be the leader again. Like Ben.

 

[Alucard]

Who the hell are you to tell us what you liked about the show?

You're making yourself look like a hotheaded and defensive nimrod. People can like the show, and people can dislike it. That's what we're discussing. You're free to feel how you want.

 

[Snuggles]

Electromagnetism, the new nanomachines. Shit we even got a Big Boss moment int he finale.

I loved the finale, but in some ways it reminded me a lot of the ending of MGS4.
The hero makes his sacrifice to save the world, Jack's golden dildo hole scene was like Snake's microwave scene, the dead father figure makes a surprise appearance to explain everything...I definitely thought about MGS4 when I was watching it.

 

[Magnus]

I loved the finale, but in some ways it reminded me a lot of the ending of MGS4.
The hero makes his sacrifice to save the world, Jack's golden dildo hole scene was like Snake's microwave scene, the dead father figure makes a surprise appearance to explain everything...I definitely thought about MGS4 when I was watching it.

Big Boss and MGS4 was definitely also foremost in my mind as the camera panned to reveal Christian. That was hilarious. :lol

 

[Byakuya769]

Shit we even got a Big Boss moment int he finale.

You're good, but this will stump you. Why/how did Christian Shepherd appear on the freighter to Michael!?!

 

[njean777]

Ok after thinking about it for awhile this is the way i would have made the ending just to make things a lot more less confusing then they needed to be.

1. Hurley and Ben stay outside the church and anybody not dead stayed outside the church (ppl who were not dead) kate, sawyer,miles,richard,lapidus. Everybody that dies on the island appears in the church with jack.
2. Jack dies and switches to church where he finally talks to his dad which i thought was great, moves on along with all the dead losties.
3. Switches to ben and hurley sitting on the beach and just chilling. Shows the airplane land at la-x and shows Kate, Sawyer, LApidus, Miles, Richard.

Now if they would have ended it like that it would have been a hell of a lot less confusing and would have been just perfect to me at least. Still didnt like the alternate timeline tbh but as i was re watching season 6 without commercial breaks it actually seems a bit better.

 

[jett]

I think I'm comfortable assuming now the Mother was both Smokey and the protector. She got curious as to what she was protecting, check the shit out, got Smokey powers. She understood the consequences there on out. When she had the two children at her disposal, she had a away out for both of her issues. She reconciled her protectorship with Jacob and in death, had set it up so MiB could become Smokey.

But if she was smokey how could she have been killed? Yeah. I think not. I personally think there's no point in wondering about any of this, because like I said before, I doubt even Lindelof knows or cares.

You're good, but this will stump you. Why/how did Christian Shepherd appear on the freighter to Michael!?!

Come on, you know the answer to that.

Spoiler

ELECTROMAGNETISM

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

You're good, but this will stump you. Why/how did Christian Shepherd appear on the freighter to Michael!?!

He was ghost, preceded by the whispers, welcoming Michael into the afterlife.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

But if she was smokey how could she have been killed?

Smokey has a control over his opaqueness. When he's being shot at, it can go right through him, but when somebody unexpectedly stabs him, he absorbs the knife, but doesn't quite get hurt by it. The mother didn't see it coming at all, she both wasn't prepared and also was ready to let go.

 

[Byakuya769]

He was ghost, preceded by the whispers, welcoming Michael into the afterlife.

Christian is only MIB when it is convenient for later revelations? Furthermore, why would his ghost be on the island. What hasn't he let go? His son? Well you think he'd give some aid to him.. like I don't know, asking Vincent to wake him up.

 

[jett]

Smokey has a control over his opaqueness. When he's being shot at, it can go right through him, but when somebody unexpectedly stabs him, he absorbs the knife, but doesn't quite get hurt by it. The mother didn't see it coming at all, she both wasn't prepared and also was ready to let go.

Where did yo pull that from?

 

[Nameless]

The final revelation cheapened the reality of the flashsideways. Our characters didn't get to profoundly complete their journeys until after their deaths. Isn't that troubling to anyone? They all required this collective post-death consciousness to complete themselves? Their stories weren't completed in life?

They all didn't even find their way back to each other in poetic fashion. One became aware of the main world and set in motion events that pulled them back to each other. The events in LA X in almost every episode, even Desmond's, suggested that much more was going on than just 'death'.



That's cause and effect. We know how that principle works, it happens all the time in every story ever told. I didn't need Lost ending with the ghost of Christian Shepard ruminating on six seasons of storyline with the ultimate message of "you all mattered to each other a lot, everything was important, everything led here to the End". Well of course it did. The show didn't need that pandering.

The most touching part is that "awakening" saw them each pick up wherever they left off in the OG timeline, only they retained the experiences of this "second chance" as well. Kate went on to live a long live off Island in the OG timeline, which made her saying "God I missed you" so fuckin powerful. The last time she saw him was that final embrace we see on the cliff. The last thing Sun & Jin remember is dying on the sub, orphaning their daughter in the process. Keep that in mind when watching their X-timeline reunion. You could totally feel that Sawyer had never fully gotten over Juliet despite leaving the island during their reunion. However you look at it we saw these characters receiving the ultimate happy endings as a direct result of going through complete and utter misery. They forged a connection that transcended everything.

 

[CartridgeBlower]

He was ghost, preceded by the whispers, welcoming Michael into the afterlife.

But I thought Michael didn't go to the afterlife? Wasn't he left on the island, unable to 'move on?'

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Ok after thinking about it for awhile this is the way i would have made the ending just to make things a lot more less confusing then they needed to be.

1. Hurley and Ben stay outside the church and anybody not dead stayed outside the church (ppl who were not dead) kate, sawyer,miles,richard,lapidus. Everybody that dies on the island appears in the church with jack.
2. Jack dies and switches to church where he finally talks to his dad which i thought was great, moves on along with all the dead losties.
3. Switches to ben and hurley sitting on the beach and just chilling. Shows the airplane land at la-x and shows Kate, Sawyer, LApidus, Miles, Richard.

Now if they would have ended it like that it would have been a hell of a lot less confusing and would have been just perfect to me at least. Still didnt like the alternate timeline tbh but as i was re watching season 6 without commercial breaks it actually seems a bit better.

You wanted Hurley, Ben, Kate, Sawyer, Miles, Richard, and Lapidus to be outside the church in purgatory land because they aren't dead?

We know for a fact that Hurley, Ben, Kate, and Sawyer died sometime after Jack. Just not when.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Where did yo pull that from?

Just pieced it together with what they gave us.

Spoiler

ELECTROMAGNETISM

 

[Snuggles]

Maybe Christian on the freighter and on Urf with Jack in season 5 were real ghost Christian and all of his appearances on the island were the Smoke Monster's imitation since his body was left there.

 

[dorkimoe]

thanks for the link that someone posted a few pages back, this gave alot of closure

Because a part of the shared human experience—which is basically what the entire show boiled down to—is that we want to leave our mark, so that people know that we'd been here. (I mean, that was the point of all the different shit, like the statue, and hieroglyphs and the empty Dharma barracks. They were all just footprints of the people who had been on the Island before.) And a large part of that, of leaving a footprint, or a mark, is to establish a basic need: To know that we matter.

 

[jett]

Just pieced it together with what they gave us.

Spoiler

ELECTROMAGNETISM

Now you've got it!

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

But I thought Michael didn't go to the afterlife? Wasn't he left on the island, unable to 'move on?'

For now, he is. I believe he will eventually be able to let go and move on with Walt. Christian saying "you can go now, Michael" was basically him saying "You're done with having to deal with this bullshit." Christian was also stuck on the island, until Jack came to move on with him.

 

[dorkimoe]

But if she was smokey how could she have been killed?

remember when they kept saying if you stab him before he can talk to you.

Well MIB stabbed her before she talked to him (in the scene)

 

[Nameless]

You know, the finale reminded me of "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" one of my all-time favorite films.

 

[jett]

remember when they kept saying if you stab him before he can talk to you.

Well MIB stabbed her before she talked to him (in the scene)

It was established by Dogen himself that he sent Sayid to die, it was a trap.

 

[Byakuya769]

Maybe Christian on the freighter and on Urf with Jack in season 5 were real ghost Christian and all of his appearances on the island were the Smoke Monster's imitation since his body was left there.

Here's my issue with that explanation: we are theorizing about who or what he was at different times with no strong inferences. This theory is logical, but it doesn't really have coherent support. In the later part of its life, the series makes us fill up the holes it leaves. That is what detracts from the series for me (though I still love it).

 

[oatmeal]

So it looks like there is a twist we all weren't expecting...

...duckroll is Season 6's Solo.

 

[Snuggles]

You know, the finale reminded me of "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" one of my all-time favorite films.

Yep, one of my all time favorite films as well. In fact, the entire X timeline reminded me of Eternal Sunshine.

In the end, no matter the circumstances, you will always find your way to the people you love. The entire x time line was like the first scene of Eternal when Joel and Clementine find each other again.

 

[Pappasman]

Argh, the more I think about this episode the more angry I get. They threw away so much and basically boiled it down to "good vs evil lolololol". About 30 minutes in I knew that the sideflash was going to have a shitty explanation but I really liked the episode overall. Not what I wanted but it was good in its own way.

also Big Boss > Christian Shepard

 

[cory]

After watching it again, Exposé is a really awesome episode.
1. The End
2. The Constant
3. Walkabout
4. Through The Looking Glass
5. Either The Shape of Things to Come or There's No Place Like Home
I'm not sure about the rest.

The seasons are harder to judge for me, but 4 was the best followed by 1, the rest are on the same level IMO.

 

[KevinCow]

What exactly was resolved?

The island has its new protector, the survivors got off the island, the smoke monster that was terrorizing the island for Jacob's entire tenure is dead, and all the characters completed their arcs. So... quite a bit was resolved.

What is special about the island

It keeps an evil energy out of the world and exudes a good energy. If you need to know more than this, then I'm not sure you could have ever been satisfied with an explanation.

what "power" does it actually have

We've seen it do a lot of things. Heal people, prevent people from dying, moving people through time and space... does it matter what the extent of the island's abilities are?

why can't women get pregnant

Probably something to do with the Incident. This is one of the things we don't really know.

why did Witmore want to control the island

Because of the crazy shit the island can do, plus his craving for power. Same reason Ben was so jealous of Locke.

what significance did he even have in the grand scheme of anything

He was the catalyst for several major events, most notably the freighter arc, the O6 leaving, and Desmond coming back.

In the end, he was just another in a long line of characters who we assumed knew more than they actually did just because they were mysterious when they were first introduced.

 

[Lion Heart]

I still have serious PLD (Post Lost Depression) but after 24 hours I love the finale just as much, if not more than last night. I love how they handled Jack and Kate, my two favourite characters, especially Kate who definitely needed some sort of vindication after all the hate she had garnered. I seriously can't stop thinking about the entirety of the show from the moment I woke up til now.

One thing I was thinking about though, how come everyone in Alt X, once they were connected to the real world, instantly understood everything and was at peace, while Jack needed to be explained everything?

 

[Nameless]

Yep, one of my all time favorite films as well. In fact, the entire X timeline reminded me of Eternal Sunshine.

In the end, no matter the circumstances, you will always find your way to the people you love. The entire x time line was like the first scene of Eternal when Joel and Clementine find each other again.

Yeah it's very similar. Joel inexplicably having the urge to play hookie from work. The two being "drawn" to each other on the train. Good stuff.

 

[Insertia]

Disappointing.

I didn't watch a single episode of season 6 (minus the finale) because I was busy with school&work and when I tried to watch it was kind of 'meh.

But this ending was just...boring for all the greatness and entertainment Lost has brought to TV. When did Lost become a standard show about relationship interactions? From the way it was shot it looked like I was watching Greys Anatomy or something.

I liked Lost the most when it was X-Files on a cool mysterious island with odd people, settings, and events happening. And instead of Scully and Mulder, we had a huge cast of interesting characters.
This ending Lost what made the show exciting.

LOST

 

[KevinCow]

One thing I was thinking about though, how come everyone in Alt X, once they were connected to the real world, instantly understood everything and was at peace, while Jack needed to be explained everything?

Jack found it the hardest to let go. Man of Science to the end.

 

[GDJustin]

I just watched it. I liked it quite a bit. I'll keep my impressions brief-ish since I'm not the world's biggest LOST fanatic and probably don't have anything to say that others haven't said.

- All the "flashes" in the flash-sideways were really emotional. They are also a fairly organic and "natural" way to give the finale a true finale feeling, by showing clips from all the other seasons. Well done.

- I think the explanation for the Alt-universe is good... it makes sense and brings closure, in a LOST sorta way. But it DOES have the effect of giving some characters a truly tragic character arc. Locke specifically. These characters (Locke, Jin, Sun, Sayeed) died with business unresolved and character arcs incomplete, but we (the audience) still had them in the flash-sideways, so we could take solace in that. But no, it turns out that end really WAS the end, for all those characters. Poor Locke

- So, we got answers about the flash-sideways, but no answers about the island :/ I'm OK with the "light" - better to leave that ambiguous rather than over-explain it. But everything with Desmond remaining unresolved bugs me. What did he THINK he was going to do? And why did Jack think that it was going to kill Flocke? Desmond's entire "on the island" story in Season 6 is a little more undercooked than I would like.

- Am I mistaken or is Charlie not at the Church at the end?

- I think the biggest failing of Season 6, and maybe the biggest failing of ALL of Lost, is that the stakes are never properly set. So MiB can't leave the island. Why? Because he's evil? What will happen if he does? What happens if the light goes out? I'm fine with ambiguity, but when you introduce ambiguity with your villains and what is at stake... then there is no drama.

Without knowing what happens if Flocke escapes, it isn't dramatic seeing him try, and seeing the candidates try to stop him.

- Summing up: Good flash-sideways conclusion, so-so island conclusion (over the course of the whole season), mostly pleased with what was explained and what wasn't, with a few exceptions.

How long until the official GAF re-watch?

 

[Iceman]

- Am I mistaken or is Charlie not at the Church at the end?

He's there. He's just cleaned up a bit.. probably why you didn't recognize him.

I will say it would have been crazy interesting to see Smokey unleashed on the world.

 

[njean777]

You wanted Hurley, Ben, Kate, Sawyer, Miles, Richard, and Lapidus to be outside the church in purgatory land because they aren't dead?

We know for a fact that Hurley, Ben, Kate, and Sawyer died sometime after Jack. Just not when.

well i know but to make it less confusing to some viewers it would have made since for them not to move on, maybe the alt timeline version of them was a second self and not real until they died and then they go into the church of moving on. I just feel ending it the way they did confused a lot of ppl. It didnt confuse me thanks to gaf but not everybody comes to gaf lol.