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[otake]

Damn, that list is brutal. Pretty much defeats any claim that "most things have been answered." Sure, some of that stuff isn't massively important but damnnn.

Pretty much proves the writers make shit up as they went.

 

[Veidt]

Locke and Eko/Desmond survived the explosion, for the same reason Locke got shot and didn't die. The island wasn't done with them yet.

 

[KevinCow]

Here's another little thing to piss me off: Miles. They made him out to be so weird and mysterious. Turns out he was useless all the way to the end. So much for purpose Lost.

Yeah, he didn't really contribute much in the end.

I feel like the science team in general was underused. Faraday explained the sciencey stuff and Lapidus did some piloting, and that's about all they contributed. Miles talked to some dead people but that never really led to anything important to the plot, and Charlotte did nothing but die.

Even outside of importance to the overall plot, they didn't get really get much character development. Miles and Faraday barely had backstories, while Lapidus and Charlotte didn't have any at all.

After S4, their screen time dropped significantly and they just tagged along for the most part.

 

[Jex]

I also read the re-review on the New York Times and pretty much agree with it, although I think that I was more positive on the whole experience.

 

[Jocchan]

Indeed, some of that can be reasonably answered by proxy, but that certain LOST fans think that's some kind of reasonable method just shows how skewed people's perceptions of storytelling have become. I certainly didn't want them all answered in an info-dump or something, and many of them didn't bother me but it's just an indication of general sloppiness.

Leaving things up to interpretation and forcing the audience to actively put the pieces of the puzzle together isn't something I'd call sloppiness. I'll tell you it's something I've always liked in fiction, especially when you aren't given all the pieces of said puzzle intentionally, but this comes down to personal preference.

 

[Archaix]

Pretty much proves the writers make shit up as they went.

Yes, this list from College Humor, most of which comprising things that have been answered through implication or things that never mattered in the first place, completely proves something.

It proves that some people are fucking dense, but that's about it.

 

[otake]

Yes, this list from College Humor, most of which comprising things that have been answered through implication or things that never mattered in the first place, completely proves something.

It proves that some people are fucking dense, but that's about it.

right....

 

[Jocchan]

Reposting for the new page:

Damn, that list is brutal. Pretty much defeats any claim that "most things have been answered." Sure, some of that stuff isn't massively important but damnnn.

Many of them have been answered, or at least hinted, in some way.
Check Stumpokapow's post here:

I only did the first three quarters and divided them into two categories:

I might be wrong about some stuff.

Stuff that was obviously answered or isn't relevant to anything larger than trivia:
The monster killed the pilot because he didn't want people to leave the island. Christian Shepard's body could have been knocked out of the coffin during the crash. The psychic was lying to Claire. The sound the smoke monster makes is really pretty irrelevant. The horse is on the island from the Dharma initiative. Henry Gale got buried under his balloon. Libby's story isn't relevant. The four toed statue was built by the Egyptians. The reason why you need a specific compass bearing to leave the island is because the electromagnetic properties screw up magnetic equipment--of course, that doesn't explain anything else about the island moving. Tom wore a fake beard presumably to disguise himself if he were caught, same as Ben impersonating Henry Gale. Libby's previous husband was irrelevant. The skeletons in the polar bear cave were Mother and the Man in Black's body. Locke and Eko presumably got blasted out of the hatch when it exploded--how they survived, no idea. Locke presumably couldn't talk after the explosion because being in an explosion hurt his throat. Eko's entire plot got cut/rolled in to other stuff. The Russian letter in Mikhail's typewriter was irrelevant. Why the supply drop menu was hidden behind a game of chess is irrelevant, presumably it was another Dharma psychological experiment. How the Monks at Desmond's monastery knew Eloise is irrelevant. Ben saw his dead mother because he was having a vision or because Smokey was occupying her form. What happened to Ben's childhood friend Annie was irrelevant. Desmond's false vision of Claire and Aaron leaving the island wasn't explained, but who says he wasn't lying to Charlie about it to begin with? Mikhail didn't come back to life--the one time he almost died was when he went to the sonic fence, and they later explained it wasn't set to lethal force. Who knows whose eye was in the cabin window besides Christian Shepard. Naomi's bracelet doesn't matter. The time difference on Faraday's watches was because the island distorts normal time. Ben wasn't surprised that they were able to kill Alex, he was surprised that they were willing to kill Alex. Jack saw his ghost dad in LA because he was nuts and hallucinating. No idea why Smokey as Horace directed Locke to the cabin, but it's not relevant. The Oceanic 6 name Charlie, Boone, and Libby as the other three survivors presumably because they wanted to come up with a believable story. Why Miles decides to stay on the island is irrelevant. Ben makes the Oceanic Six come back to the island both because he has to for Jacob and because he thinks it'll make him head of the island again. The men who tried to capture Sayid and Hurley were presumably working for either Widmore or Ben. Ben talking to the butcher was talking in code about non-island members of the Others. I think Ben took C4 out of his vent. The Smoke Monster wasn't at the Temple, he was near and under the Temple. Presumably because he was trying to get in. The second flight had to have the same people as the first flight so that the right people would time travel to cause the events that led to the events that caused the first flight to crash.

Stuff that didn't get answered:
The supply drop went unexplained. The Others child/fertility story ended up unresolved. Walt's special powers ended up unresolved. I have no idea why Jack wasn't on Jacob's list when he was doing Ben's surgery, I asked that myself--but I assume it's because Jacob originally was planned to have a list of candidates to replace Ben (which is the direction they were going with with Locke's story) but that changed in the end. I have no idea about the fertility thing, that's a serious plot hole. Juliet getting branded when she was found guilty was part of the Others justice system--remember they even had that Sheriff type figure? That never got elaborated on in the end. The rules between Ben and Widmore were never explained and is a serious plot hole. No idea how Christian Shepard appeared on the freighter. The frozen wheel isn't explained, but the Man in Black basically says "it's a wheel that moves the island and uses magic light" so that's good enough for me. They never explain who is shooting at the gang during the time travel. Eloise's elaborate pendulum / island finding system isn't explained but presumably from her association with Widmore and his lifelong goal of getting back to the island, they were connected. Actually, most of the stuff done by Sun's father / Widmore / Eloise was clearly something they planned to explain at one point and then decided not to.

I'd add the fertility thing was (sort of) resolved. It just wasn't as important to the overall story as it looked to be.

 

[hamchan]

Many of them have been answered, or at least hinted, in some way.
Check Stumpokapow's post here:

I'd add the fertility thing was (sort of) resolved. It just wasn't as important to the overall story as it looked to be.

Even with that cut down list, I'm still rather surprised at the stuff that didn't get answered.

Christian Shepard appearing everywhere bothers me now that we know it was only Smoky.

 

[Jocchan]

right....

He's correct. That list isn't entirely serious, and most of those questions did get answers or can be pieced together with a minimum of effort from the viewer.

Even with that cut down list, I'm still rather surprised at the stuff that didn't get answered.

Christian Shepard appearing everywhere bothers me now that we know it was only Smoky.

Yeah, Christian being Smokey is kinda weird.
I really hope the extra scenes shed some light on this and a few more details.

 

[Archaix]

Reposting for the new page:



Many of them have been answered, or at least hinted, in some way.
Check Stumpokapow's post here:

I'd add the fertility thing was (sort of) resolved. It just wasn't as important to the overall story as it looked to be.

I'd go a step further and say the fertility thing was (sort of) answered, and the purpose it served was to show us just another entry in the long list of things that Jack screwed up.

 

[Veidt]

WHO SENT KATE THE LETTER TELLING HER, HER MOM IS BEING TREATED FOR CANCER!
How the hell does that even matter?
:lol

that's like saying;

WHO GAVE JACK HIS HAIRCUT IN SEASON 1!!!

 

[Jocchan]

WHO SENT KATE THE LETTER TELLING HER, HER MOM IS BEING TREATED FOR CANCER!
How the hell does that even matter?
:lol

that's like saying;

WHO GAVE JACK HIS HAIRCUT IN SEASON 1!!!

Damn, this totally proves they were making everything up on the fly.

I'd go a step further and say the fertility thing was (sort of) answered, and the purpose it served was to show us just another entry in the long list of things that Jack screwed up.

You know where else Jack was wrong?
Live together, die alone.
Poor guy was wrong on fucking everything.

 

[The Elite]

Yes, this list from College Humor, most of which comprising things that have been answered through implication or things that never mattered in the first place, completely proves something.

It proves that some people are fucking dense, but that's about it.

Some people need things to be explicitly spelled out for them. I personally like to piece some things together myself. *shrugs*

 

[leroy hacker]

Indeed, some of that can be reasonably answered by proxy, but that certain LOST critics don't think that's some kind of reasonable method just shows how limited people's perceptions of storytelling have become.

Fixed.

 

[Jex]

Leaving things up to interpretation and forcing the audience to actively put the pieces of the puzzle together isn't something I'd call sloppiness. I'll tell you it's something I've always liked in fiction, especially when you aren't given all the pieces of said puzzle intentionally, but this comes down to personal preference.

The sheer number of dangling plot points is impressive, but as people have pointed out by themselves this isn't inherently bad. Not everything does need an answer.

In part, I agree with what you say. But with LOST it wasn't because they were being clever and leaving things up to interpretation, it was because they had no clue.

If they wanted to remain neutral on one of the larger themes (Science vs. Faith) they could have been, but instead they just told us. I don't mind that they did that either, but I don't think they did any work throwing out pieces from a puzzle. They took a random selection of pieces, from a random selection of puzzles, and threw them out there for people to enjoy. And many people certain did. But it doesn't seem like there was any kind of 'picture'.

But it seems that the people with more time and perhaps more sense then the writers constructed them into a coherent, understandable points. I'm more impressed by those internet detectives then by the writers of the shows mysteries.

Fixed.

I haven't recently read a book or a watched a show were no answer is provided to some mystery/event and then decided that, maybe if I work it out 'by proxy' that's a good thing.

I don't view watching/reading a story as someone who is helping to interpret a plot. At that point, I'm just making stuff up. Even if it sounds logical when I try to answer some question, I did it, not the writers. It's like some odd kind of collaborative storytelling.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

right....

the funny thing is you're probably serious :lol

 

[The Elite]

Couldn't the supply drops being explained by the time difference with the outside world. Drop happened in the 70s, they probably missed their window, and it showed up in 2004.

 

[surrogate]

I'd like to know if the inability of Smokey to transverse water was dependent on the distance, volume, or type of water. After dimwit Jacob threw MiB's body into the magic EM cave, Smokey comes flying out of the cave and flies over the water flowing into the cave without a problem.

 

[The Elite]

I'd like to know if the inability of Smokey not being able to transverse water was dependent on the distance, volume, or type of water. After dimwit Jacob threw MiB's body into the magic EM cave, Smokey comes flying out of the cave and flies over the water flowing into the cave without a problem.

I think it was obvious that it depended on the volume of water. Hell, Smokie seemed to have not much of an issue with being thrown into the water by Jack. It only stunned him momentarily.

 

[TheGreatDave]

I'd like to know if the inability of Smokey not being able to transverse water was dependent on the distance, volume, or type of water. After dimwit Jacob threw MiB's body into the magic EM cave, Smokey comes flying out of the cave and flies over the water flowing into the cave without a problem.

I always thought it was a more literal "Well I obviously can't just fly away off the island, otherwise I would have done it". Not some magical "OMG water kills me" thing.

 

[Solo]

Probably a distance thing. Crossing a stream vs crossing the ocean.

 

[hamchan]

Couldn't the supply drops being explained by the time difference with the outside world. Drop happened in the 70s, they probably missed their window, and it showed up in 2004.

The time dilation isn't 30 years though, only 31 minutes i thought?

 

[The Elite]

Probably a distance thing. Crossing a stream vs crossing the ocean.

But in Ghostbusters Egon specifically says they shouldn't cross the streams because it could be deadly yet when they cross the streams they don't die. What a fucking plot hole! We never got an answer to that!

The time dilation isn't 30 years though, only 31 minutes i thought?

I thought it varied. I'll have to go back and watch some of that stuff again.

 

[surrogate]

I always thought it was a more literal "Well I obviously can't just fly away off the island, otherwise I would have done it". Not some magical "OMG water kills me" thing.

Well he couldn't fly between islands either and they weren't all that far apart

 

[Drealmcc0y]

The only ones that are actually mysterys that matter or we havent been given enough information on is :

Walt
Cabin
Christian

 

[Beowulf28]

Probably a distance thing. Crossing a stream vs crossing the ocean.

Maybe he didn't know the bearing?

 

[Veidt]

Why did the oceanic 6 have to be in the same recreate the circumstances of their first arrival? Why did Sun stay in the present and the rest land in the 70's?

Because;

1: The island wants them to be the way they were, as the candidates are selected based on what kind of people they are.

2: Jack has to have someone he cared for, but died, on board, Kate has to be running from something ( she never stays in the same place), Sayid has to be misunderstood and lost someone he wants to take care of. Hurley has to believe he's crazy and run from his superstition. The reason Sun didn't land in the 70's is because Jin wasn't present ( and they both have to be together ala the Pilot).

goodness, is it that hard to link things?

 

[otake]

the funny thing is you're probably serious :lol

If you look at my post history in this thread you'll see where I'm coming from. Not all of collegehumors questions were important but a lot of them were mysteries built up by the writers for no ultimately purpose. In other words, they were just red herrings. I've always had a problem with this.

 

[The Elite]

The only ones that are actually mysterys that matter or we havent been given enough information on is :

Walt
Cabin
Christian

I'd replace Cabin with Donkey Wheel. I'm positive at this point that the Cabin and inhabitant where MiB manipulating Ben and Jacob to do his bidding.

 

[Kingsora]

Can someone make me please a gif avatar from this video of 3:48 untill 3:53??: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M5-IK2vkZ0&feature=related
Would be really appreciated ^^

Btw I just started seeing Lost again from the beginning and I just realized that a lot of the characters have only known each other and lived with each other for a maximum of let us say 120 days, but still they should have that connection with each other that they have with no one else.

Yes I know that's not with everyone, but I was thinking about characters like Hurley and Libby, Shannon and Sayid, Charlie and Claire, Boone with everyone else.

 

[Solo]

Maybe he didn't know the bearing?

Maybe. But if Jacob knew it, MIB must have known it too.

 

[TheGreatDave]

Well he couldn't fly between islands either and they weren't all that far apart

Smokey is electromagnetic, electric doesn't play well with water.

 

[MightyHealthy]

Damn, this totally proves they were making everything up on the fly.

Why be faux-sarcastic, when deep down you know it's true? :lol

 

[Jocchan]

The sheer number of dangling plot points is impressive, but as people have pointed out by themselves this isn't inherently bad. Not everything does need an answer.

In part, I agree with what you say. But with LOST it wasn't because they were being clever and leaving things up to interpretation, it was because they had no clue. T

If they wanted to remain neutral on one of the larger themes (Science vs. Faith) they could have been, but instead they just told us. I don't mind that they did that either, but I don't think they did any work throwing out pieces from a puzzle. They took a random selection of pieces, from a random selection of puzzles, and threw them out there for people to enjoy. And many people certain did.

But it seems that the people with more time and perhaps more sense then the writers constructed them into a coherent, understandable points. I'm more impressed by those internet detectives then by the writers of the shows mysteries.



I haven't recently read a book or a watched a show were no answer is provided to some mystery/event and then decided that, maybe if I work it out 'by proxy' that's a good thing.

I don't view watching/reading a story as someone who is helping to interpret a plot. At that point, I'm just making stuff up. Even if it sounds logical when I try to answer some question, I did it, not the writers. It's like some odd kind of collaborative storytelling.

Yes, they indeed made up as they went a long A LOT of stuff, they dropped many storylines and retconned many more. I'm not denying that, of course.
But if you can come up with a logical explanation, then the writers have still succeeded.
You may not like, or may not want to expect, the need to take an active role to understand all the details in a story. I like it, and actually wish I'd stumble upon this more often. As I said earlier, it comes down to personal preference... but doesn't necessarily make it objectively bad or sloppy writing.

Couldn't the supply drops being explained by the time difference with the outside world. Drop happened in the 70s, they probably missed their window, and it showed up in 2004.

Considering DHARMA is supposedly gone entirely after the Purge (and this would explain why the Lamppost off island was abandoned and they never came back), I'd say it's very possible.

The time dilation isn't 30 years though, only 31 minutes i thought?

It depends on the bearing.

EDIT:

Why be faux-sarcastic, when deep down you know it's true? :lol

I know it's true, coincidentally I said it in this very post, but I also know that video isn't proving anything

 

[Solo]

Btw I just started seeing Lost again from the beginning and I just realized that a lot of the characters have only known each other and lived with each other for a maximum of let us say 120 days

120 days plus THREE YEARS :lol

 

[Patrick Klepek]

The Internet, and the constant behind-the-scenes dissection of the writing process, is what both fueled and ruined Lost. Imagine watching Lost with no concept of how the project was born, what went into the writing process, the creation of an end date -- it'd be amazing.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

I'd replace Cabin with Donkey Wheel. I'm positive at this point that the Cabin and inhabitant where MiB manipulating Ben and Jacob to do his bidding.

Yeah but there was 2 people in the cabin once

I dont see whats wrong with the Donkey Wheel, i got all the information i needed out of that.

Whats the reason for Donkey Wheel being a mystery?

 

[otake]

The Internet, and the constant behind-the-scenes dissection of the writing process, is what both fueled and ruined Lost. Imagine watching Lost with no concept of how the project was born, what went into the writing process, the creation of an end date -- it'd be amazing.

People would still be pissed at the ending. Anyone who was there for the science fiction got royally screwed, regardless of behind the scenes info. Heck, they would be more pissed at the Eko omission.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

If you look at my post history in this thread you'll see where I'm coming from. Not all of collegehumors questions were important but a lot of them were mysteries built up by the writers for no ultimately purpose. In other words, they were just red herrings. I've always had a problem with this.

Yeah some mysterys were red herrings, that usually happens in mysterys

 

[Archaix]

The time dilation isn't 30 years though, only 31 minutes i thought?

That was for a missle that was shot at the Island. Could be relative to how long was spent traveling through whatever sphere surrounds the Island and distorts time. Something falling by parachute would spend a lot longer going through it, which could mean it took much longer to get there than a rocket aimed directly at the Island. Also, I'd prefer to think that the drop was scheduled in the 90s before the Purge than the 70s, just because I can believe Dharma made food that's good for a decade but am not sure even those crazy hippies could come up with something that had a 30 year shelf life.

 

[Jocchan]

Yeah but there was 2 people in the cabin once

I dont see whats wrong with the Donkey Wheel, i got all the information i needed out of that.

Whats the reason for Donkey Wheel being a mystery?

I need to know the structure of the mechanism that allowed a donkey wheel to manipulate a pocket of electromagnetic/magic/whatever energy and warp an entire island through space and time.

 

[Patrick Klepek]

People would still be pissed at the ending. Anyone who was there for the science fiction got royally screwed, regardless of behind the scenes info. Heck, they would be more pissed at the Eko omission.

And the typical response will always be "that wasn't the point." I think it'd be less heated if you could just watch the show for what it is.

 

[surrogate]

The Internet, and the constant behind-the-scenes dissection of the writing process, is what both fueled and ruined Lost. Imagine watching Lost with no concept of how the project was born, what went into the writing process, the creation of an end date -- it'd be amazing.

Not really. Jacob being more of a bumbling idiot than Barney Fife is what ruined it for me.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

I need to know the structure of the mechanism that allowed a donkey wheel to manipulate a pocket of electromagnetic/magic/whatever energy and warp an entire island through space and time.

I hope your joking

 

[Jocchan]

That was for a missle that was shot at the Island. Could be relative to how long was spent traveling through whatever sphere surrounds the Island and distorts time. Something falling by parachute would spend a lot longer going through it, which could mean it took much longer to get there than a rocket aimed directly at the Island. Also, I'd prefer to think that the drop was scheduled in the 90s before the Purge than the 70s, just because I can believe Dharma made food that's good for a decade but am not sure even those crazy hippies could come up with something that had a 30 year shelf life.

Would that really matter? The food just fell down at regular speed, regardless of how time passed in the outside world between the drop and it touching ground on the island.
The only issue would be the end dates printed on each box, but even if they expired in (say) 1992 they would be still perfectly healthy in 2004.

 

[otake]

And the typical response will always be "that wasn't the point." I think it'd be less heated if you could just watch the show for what it is.

Watch it for what it is. Well, I was led to believe it was science fiction. By the way, I'm not mad about it. Just disappointed.

 

[Jex]

But if you can come up with a logical explanation, then the writers have still succeeded.

I don't really buy that as an argument for successful writing. Just because a writer left a plot-thread unexplained, and it's not impossible for someone to actually come up with a good explanation, doesn't mean they have succeeded. It just means that they didn't literally paint themselves into a corner. There's nothing commendable in that.

You may not like, or may not want to expect, the need to take an active role to understand all the details in a story. I like it, and actually wish I'd stumble upon this more often. As I said earlier, it comes down to personal preference... but doesn't necessarily make it objectively bad or sloppy writing.

Well bad writing is certainly subjective. And I subjectively feel that some of the mysteries were poorly written, and handled sloppily (still better written then some of the dialogue in "Across the Sea").

 

[Archaix]

Would that really matter? The food just fell down at regular speed, regardless of how time passed in the outside world between the drop and it touching ground on the island.
The only issue would be the end dates printed on each box, but even if they expired in (say) 1992 they would be still perfectly healthy in 2004.

I may be misremembering the clocks on Faraday's experiment, but wasn't the clock on the paylod significantly further ahead than the one Faraday was carrying? Meaning that the rocket traveled for a half an hour, while the people on the Island and on the freighter both experienced a much shorter time.

 

[Beardz]

/Thread