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[Solo]

Interesting to note that S6 had the most everyone-centric episodes of the series.

S1 had 5 (both parts of the Pilot, all three parts of Exodus)
S2 had none
S3 had none
S4 had 3 (all three parts of Theres No Place Like Home)
S5 had 5 (because You Left, Namaste, Follow The Leader, both parts of The Incident)
S6 had 6 (both parts of LA X, The Last Recruit, What They Died For, both parts of The End)

 

[TheGreatDave]

dear fucking christ she speaks French oh my god as if she couldn't get any hotter.

:lol Seriously.

 

[Falch]

dear fucking christ she speaks French oh my god as if she couldn't get any hotter.

Her French does sound a bit wonky. Which is cute.

 

[Veidt]

The way she says un idee... Lily Je'taime <3

 

[brandonh83]

Her French does sound a bit wonky

 

[neoism]

It only ends once. But winning the Emmy twice would be progress.

That better happen again

 

[Solo]

Her French does sound a bit wonky. Which is cute.

Well she is english. And Canadian. Speaking as an english Canadian, when we speak French, its the Quebec form of French, which is different from the French being spoken in France :lol

 

[neoism]

My predictions:
- Bender wins for direction
- O'Quinn wins for supporting actor
- The show wins Best Drama
- Fox wins for Best Actor

fixed

 

[TheGreatDave]

Fox ain't winning anything. Life is too unfair.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Evangeline Lily interview

Damn she looks fucking HOT here!

My God, that french! That fucking canadian french accent is so fucking sexy! Damn you, Dominic... damn!!

 

[Pakkidis]

Never knew she spoke french. Mind blown.

 

[neoism]

Fox ain't winning anything. Life is too unfair.

 

[brandonh83]

Matthew Fox is responsible for every single bit of material in The End that made me cry like a bitch, with the exception of the Claire and Charlie scene. Him walking to his death, him realizing he's dead and sharing the most profound moment with John Terry in the entire series, his final moments with Vincent and watching the Ajira plane fly away and feeling accomplished before death, etc. But beyond that, his scenes of sacrifice and bravery were incredible. Every single one of them. Fox really stepped up his game. He knew he had to, and he did, and in my opinion he ended up playing along with the players who usually outplay him, like Terry and Emerson.

I'm not saying there aren't other television performers out better than his turn in The End because I haven't seen enough to make such a claim. I just know that even if I watched every other show out there, I'm convinced that I wouldn't be nearly as moved and impressed as I was with Fox during the finale. That could be because of my admiration of the character and the story he's in, I just don't see myself reacting in the same way to other shows on the emotional level I did with this finale.

 

[Solo]

Never knew she spoke french. Mind blown.

Most Canadian schools teach French.

 

[LM4sure]

When MIB went in, Smokey came out and MIB's dead body was dumped on the rocks. Jack's body was also dumped on the same rocks as MIB, and he died like 10 minutes after. Whose to say that there wasn't another Smokey created due to his act? Maybe Hurley and Ben spent their on-island career protecting the island against the new Smokey?

Ok, that sounds good. But what would be the new Smokey's objective? To still get off the island? Does the smoke monster need to inhabit a person's body? If so, then Jack would have become the new smoke monster. But he was interested in protecting the island and not getting off. So maybe the new smoke monster would be good, and would help Hurley and Ben protect the island from those who wished to exploit it???

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

I think Fox was pretty reserved in those final scenes. They were just begging to be overacted and thankfully he played them beautifully.

 

[Solo]

Ok, that sounds good. But what would be the new Smokey's objective? To still get off the island? Does the smoke monster need to inhabit a person's body? If so, then Jack would have become the new smoke monster. But he was interested in protecting the island and not getting off. So maybe the new smoke monster would be good, and would help Hurley and Ben protect the island from those who wished to exploit it???

Since a theoretical new Smokey wouldnt be MIB, and not contain its malice, perhaps it would be what Ben incorrectly referred to MIB as in S4: a security system. Instead of wanting to put out the light and escape like MIB, this one would protect the light.

 

[brandonh83]

I have to say that, personally, I don't believe it created another smoke monster because Jack was pure. The Man in Black... not so much. Jack went down there to save the island, whereas MIB was tossed down there out of blind rage. I know MIB didn't choose to go down into the cave, but he probably would have, as he was searching for it.

I just think it depends on the circumstance. Part of me kind of thinks that smoke monsters are only created through a sinful act, or that if the host has a lot of darkness within. I do think Mother was a smoke monster and to me she was turned into one because she was probably curious enough to venture into the cave, but that's totally a personal interpretation.

 

[gdt]

Interesting to note that S6 had the most everyone-centric episodes of the series.

S1 had 5 (both parts of the Pilot, all three parts of Exodus)
S2 had none
S3 had none
S4 had 3 (all three parts of Theres No Place Like Home)
S5 had 5 (because You Left, Namaste, Follow The Leader, both parts of The Incident)
S6 had 6 (both parts of LA X, The Last Recruit, What They Died For, both parts of The End)

Follow The Leader is a Jack/Locke episode.

Edit: Hmm, Wikipedia seems to disagree. They're wrong.

 

[John Harker]

This is probably already discussed, but I'm not caught up on the thread:

Is the overall current thought is that Mother herself was actually a Smoke "monster"?

So we have Mother as the first Guardian we know about, and in her she holds the complete package: she was first just a lonely Guardian but she herself gave into temptation and went down into the Light and became Smoke as well. This is how she was able to bury the Well MiB was in and then kill and burn that entire village so quickly. Also explains why she told Jacob that going down there was a fate worst than death.

So she wants her life to end and sees an opportunity for a Guardian replacement with this pregnant lady. Kills her, takes her child - opps there's another child. She didn't want both... raising them, she choose MiB to be her heir. Opps, she pisses him off. Anyway, the short of it is: her powers were actually split. Jacob ended up getting the Guardian powers, as she ended up "choosing" him, but he tossed his brother down the well - MiB was 'reborn' as the Smoke monster, inheriting the darker part of Mother.

She was hoping to separate that, prevent one of her children from gaining both powers, MiB would just become the Guardian and protect the island and never be corrupted, but she was selfish and jealousy arose and anger and now both sons split this ability and have gone to war because of it. Yikes.

 

[Solo]

This is probably already discussed, but I'm not caught up on the thread:

Is the overall current thought is that Mother herself was actually a Smoke "monster"?

Im pretty sure thats the conclusion we've all arrived at.

 

[Jocchan]

Jack turning into another smoke monster makes ZERO sense. Please, stop here

 

[John Harker]

Jack turning into another smoke monster makes ZERO sense. Please, stop here

naw, the light was unplugged when he went down there. As we saw with MiB, unplugged = island has no power, e.g. also no smoke monster. He got tossed out before he became one

 

[Archaix]

It was probably his best one, but nothing better than Emerson and O'Quinn do on their worst days.

I don't understand

I use that avatar in honor of the greatest protector the Island has ever seen, and his podcast. Plus Jack looks drunk and completely confused, which really captures the essence of Jack. He's probably making a bad decision, too.

 

[neoism]

Most Canadian schools teach French.

so when you get really mad do you curse in French Solo :lol

 

[bachikarn]

Yeah, I don't think Jack can be a smoke monster. It would imply that Jacob killed his brother and the monster was something else.

 

[Solo]

naw, the light was unplugged when he went down there. As we saw with MiB, unplugged = island has no power, e.g. also no smoke monster. He got tossed out before he became one

Jack put the plug back in though. And then he got tossed out and died MIB style. Him becoming a benevolent white Smoke Monster isnt out of the question.

 

[gdt]

Yeah, I don't think Jack can be a smoke monster. It would imply that Jacob killed his brother and the monster was something else.

Not really.

It could just imply that the Cave (I guess at full power) turns someone into a Smoke Monster.

 

[Archaix]

Yeah, I don't think Jack can be a smoke monster. It would imply that Jacob killed his brother and the monster was something else.

Not necessarily. It could simply imply that somebody new can take the powers of the smoke monster, much like the protector's special magic can be passed on.

 

[Solo]

so when you get really mad do you curse in French Solo :lol

Oh fuck no :lol I forgot most of my french after middle school

 

[dave is ok]

It would be really ridiculous and dumb if Lost swept the Emmys

 

[infinityBCRT]

I use that avatar in honor of the greatest protector the Island has ever seen, and his podcast. Plus Jack looks drunk and completely confused, which really captures the essence of Jack. He's probably making a bad decision, too.

I didn't even know that Jorge did a podcast until yesterday from reading this thread

 

[cyclonekruse]

This is probably already discussed, but I'm not caught up on the thread:

Is the overall current thought is that Mother herself was actually a Smoke "monster"?

So we have Mother as the first Guardian we know about, and in her she holds the complete package: she was first just a lonely Guardian but she herself gave into temptation and went down into the Light and became Smoke as well. This is how she was able to bury the Well MiB was in and then kill and burn that entire village so quickly. Also explains why she told Jacob that going down there was a fate worst than death.

So she wants her life to end and sees an opportunity for a Guardian replacement with this pregnant lady. Kills her, takes her child - opps there's another child. She didn't want both... raising them, she choose MiB to be her heir. Opps, she pisses him off. Anyway, the short of it is: her powers were actually split. Jacob ended up getting the Guardian powers, as she ended up "choosing" him, but he tossed his brother down the well - MiB was 'reborn' as the Smoke monster, inheriting the darker part of Mother.

She was hoping to separate that, prevent one of her children from gaining both powers, MiB would just become the Guardian and protect the island and never be corrupted, but she was selfish and jealousy arose and anger and now both sons split this ability and have gone to war because of it. Yikes.

I think most people have come to a similar conclusion, myself included. The only thing I struggle with is that Crazy Mom had a body whereas the MiB didn't once he turned into Smokie.

My other thought was that perhaps Crazy Mom fully intended for the MiB to turn on her. She wanted to die, but since her first priority was protecting the island, she needed to find a replacement first. It would be hard to convince the person you pass the torch to to kill you afterward (and perhaps counterproductive to the island's safety...imagine giving powers to the person you piss off enough to kill you). Much easier is to create a situation where you hand over guardianship to a pure person and get another person to kill you. That's why she brought a lady who was pregnant with twins to the island.

Her entire plan might have been one long con. And she might have been impersonating their real mom. However she might not have planned for MiB to become Smokie. That could have been a mistake. After she died, she might have intended for Jacob to allow MiB to leave but Jacob either came back too soon and saw what had happened or got more angry than she thought and tried to kill MiB.

 

[brandonh83]

It would be really ridiculous and dumb if Lost swept the Emmys

Well, it won't. So you can rest easy tonight.

 

[Archaix]

I think most people have come to a similar conclusion, myself included. The only thing I struggle with is that Crazy Mom had a body whereas the MiB didn't once he turned into Smokie.

He didn't have his own body, but he did once he died (or, once he was able to die). There was a corpse left after he got shot, and it was still there after Jack kicked it off the cliff.

 

[Solo]

My other thought was that perhaps Crazy Mom fully intended for the MiB to turn on her.

I think she quite obviously planned to put the two boys against eachother. And she purposefully told them about the "fate worse than death" cave. She always intended to play them against eachother until one of them wanted to kill eachother and threw the other one down there. In fact, its probably her reason behind making it so that they couldnt kill eachother.

 

[bachikarn]

Not really.

It could just imply that the Cave (I guess at full power) turns someone into a Smoke Monster.

? If Jack turned into the smoke monster when he was at the source, than he didn't really die when we saw him close his eyes. If he really did die, than that would imply the MIB died and the smoke monster wasn't him.

 

[cyclonekruse]

He didn't have his own body, but he did once he died (or, once he was able to die). There was a corpse left after he got shot, and it was still there after Jack kicked it off the cliff.

Does that then imply that the mother had another body and the one placed in the cave was her second body?

 

[Archaix]

Does that then imply that the mother had another body and the one placed in the cave was her second body?

Yes, if all of these assumptions are accurate. Her bones could be among those resting in the cork cave. The other skeletons could be other protectors in the past who had also abandoned their bodies down there.

Somebody posted the Smokey Temple Carving earlier in the thread, and I really looked at it in a new way. Smokey is leaning toward Anubis. It originally looked as though it was a confrontation, or Anubis calling the monster (like Ben did, or so we thought). Now I'm looking at it as though Anubis is welcoming the Smoke into it, taking on those powers in his position as protector.

By the way, Anubis was the protector of the dead and the afterlife (or, more specifically, their journey to it).

 

[Jocchan]

I think most people have come to a similar conclusion, myself included. The only thing I struggle with is that Crazy Mom had a body whereas the MiB didn't once he turned into Smokie.

But MiB did have a physical body after turning into Smokey. In the finale we see Flocke bleed, die, and his corpse stay behind after Jack kicks his ass down. Looks like a physical body to me, and it's reasonable to assume that body would rot after a while (and turn into a skeleton just like Crazed Mom did when she became Eve).
The fact it wasn't MiB's original body doesn't mean it doesn't behave like one.

EDIT: Beaten.

 

[Solo]

? If Jack turned into the smoke monster when he was at the source, than he didn't really die when we saw him close his eyes. If he really did die, than that would imply the MIB died and the smoke monster wasn't him.

MIB DID die. Adam and Eve, remember? Smokey can only take the form of the dead. It kills the original host and takes what I guess you could call its soul.

 

[cyclonekruse]

I think she quite obviously planned to put the two boys against eachother. And she purposefully told them about the "fate worse than death" cave. She always intended to play them against eachother until one of them wanted to kill eachother and threw the other one down there. In fact, its probably her reason behind making it so that they couldnt kill eachother.

Creating an entity with the powers of the Smoke monster that desperately wants to destroy the island doesn't seem like a good plan for someone who has sworn to protect the island.

 

[cyclonekruse]

Yes, if all of these assumptions are accurate. Her bones could be among those resting in the cork cave. The other skeletons could be other protectors in the past who had abandoned their bodies down there.

Thanks. I guess my brain was kinda leaning that way but hadn't fully formed everything.

 

[Jocchan]

Creating an entity with the powers of the Smoke monster that desperately wants to destroy the island doesn't seem like a good plan for someone who has sworn to protect the island.

Maybe she was bored, and wanted to watch some entertaining TV.

 

[brandonh83]

Creating an entity with the powers of the Smoke monster that desperately wants to destroy the island doesn't seem like a good plan for someone who has sworn to protect the island.

He didn't want to destroy it back then, he just wanted to leave. Not to mention she was more or less looking for a way to be rid of the curse. That is, if you believe she's a smoke monster.

 

[Solo]

Creating an entity with the powers of the Smoke monster that desperately wants to destroy the island doesn't seem like a good plan for someone who has sworn to protect the island.

Im saying that she was selfish and just wanted to die and be done with it. She didnt give a fuck what happened after that.

 

[bachikarn]

MIB DID die. Adam and Eve, remember? Smokey can only take the form of the dead. It kills the original host and takes what I guess you could call its soul.

Well, I just assumed the soul got a new body (the smoke), and the old body was just discarded. So he didn't die per se. If he died, wouldn't that have broken "the rules?"

About the mother, I just assumed she might have smoke monster esque powers as the protector of the Island. It seems that the protector of the Island has influence of the Light/EM, and the smoke seemed like a manifestation of the light.

 

[cyclonekruse]

He didn't want to destroy it back then, he just wanted to leave. Not to mention she was more or less looking for a way to be rid of the curse. That is, if you believe she's a smoke monster.

I know she was trying to get rid of the curse. But her first priority was protecting the island. That's why she procured a replacement before she allowed herself to get killed. Or maybe she didn't care about the island anymore and just needed a replacement so she COULD die.

And even if he didn't want to destroy the island, he was trying to tap into the light which she seemed to be afraid would run the risk of putting it out.

Edit: Nevermind. She just didn't want him tapping into the light because that would make him leave. Without him, she wouldn't have anyone to kill her. Plus that provided the impetus for him to stab her in the back.

 

[cyclonekruse]

Im saying that she was selfish and just wanted to die and be done with it. She didnt give a fuck what happened after that.

That seems a little off. Why protect the island at all, then? Why not just have people come, put the light out, and end all of life as we know it. She would die then (along with everyone else). If she were that selfish, that seems like a much easier way to go about dying.

 

[Kitschkraft]

Its starting to hit me now just how amazingly awesome the X-timeline stuff was. Locke X was still in his wheelchair and Cooper was a vegetable. Locke X didnt want to get out of the chair as punishment for what he did to Cooper by crashing the plane. It occurs to me that this was a construct of John Prime's mind to cope with what he really did to Cooper Prime by having Sawyer kill him while John made a power play with the others. A lot like how Jack constructed a son. Damn, rewatching this season is going to give a whole new perspective on the X timeline stuff.

Yeah, I feel the same way.

Bens dad being a wheelchair bound, gas mask needing, sickly old man is another thing that I wonder about now.

His dad resented him because his mom died giving birth to him, and Ben thought that this was justification for killing him. I wonder what he "learned" from being an average joe, forced to take care of his own sick father.

As far as Emmy's go, I wouldn't mind seeing Fox get at least a nom this year. As much as I like the first two seasons, I have to admit, Fox is very under par in many instances. He used to have these little idiosyncrasies (The worst thing is that rub his face, turn his head half way and back thing, that he would do ALL the time) that used to bug me a lot. He's made some great tweaks the past couple of season that have really made him "worthy" of the leading position.