LOST 06.17/18/18.5: "The End" (Everything Else Was Just Progress)
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John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
we don't know if whatever power of the Guardian has would enable them to maintain both that ability and Smoke ability. Mother's power was split into both jacob and MiB, so in that sense they were 'incomplete' in their inheritance... possible the Smoke power was just too much so MiB body was snuffed out and he was only dark soul
that could just mean we saw the origins of our smoke monster
that could just mean we saw the origins of our smoke monster
Kitschkraft
Member
Ghost said:
I thought that she just had bad ass skills.
Remember how easily Jacob manhandled Richard? I had just assumed...you live for a long ass time, you learn how to defend yourself.
I think that if Jacob never throws MiB into the well, we never see a smoke monster.
He was totally invulnerable because he could change his consistency to make bullets fly past his body and lots of cool stuff, but they didn't bounce away and he often was solid enough to kick your ass even in human form. Which means it's still possible he could be hurt if taken by surprise (I mean: we have no evidence to rule out this possibility).Ghost said:
Okay, here it is. My not-quite-final theory about the Smoke Monster and what he was, along with what he was supposed to be. My assumptions are that Mother did indeed exhibit powers similar to that of Smokey. In addition, I don't believe she was the first protector of the Island.
So, what did we know about Smokey? Or, what did we think we knew? We know that he was described as a security system for the Island. Many of us theorized earlier that he acted as a sort of judge, based in large part on his interactions with Eko (and later the Ben/Alex scene). We also know that MIB said Jacob stole his humanity.
I believe that the Smoke Monster is a power that is supposed to be given to the protector of the Island. Based mainly on inferring that Mother was both protector and monster, this is what made me reevaluate the Anubis carving:
As I mentioned earlier, I'm now interpreting this picture as Anubis welcoming the Smoke into himself, taking on the power to protect the heart, the source of life death and rebirth. MIB didn't have a choice in the matter, seeing as how he was unconscious and all. He did want to use the power of the Island, though, so he was willing even if knocked out. Plus he was the fraternal twin of the Island, so maybe the DNA checks aren't quite 100% in the cork pool and it thought he was Jacob. Either explanation would nail why Desmond and Jack didn't turn into the monster. Neither wanted that power, and neither were protector at the time they went in the cave.
What we saw in the cave was the bodies of previous Island protectors, all having been discarded willingly in the cork room. This is why they weren't flung out of the cave on a pillar of Smoke. They knew what they were getting into and accepted it. MIB had no idea what was going on, and suddenly after getting a second family-induced concussion in a day, he wakes up as an immortal being of smoke and energy, shitting himself and flying into the air because he could.
The protector is supposed to use that power to be a completely impartial judge of the people who come, to help those who have good intentions and to destroy those who don't. Smokey used this to look into people and see whether they would be easily manipulated. Locke and Ben could. Eko couldn't by the time he died. Which, for the record, is why I'm going to say Eko wasn't in the church. Sure it was actually because of the actor, but I'm saying he died completely clean. He had no regrets about how he handled his life and had already moved on while he was alive. This judging ability is where the "stole my humanity" and "fate worse than death" come in. A judge has to be impartial and can't be swayed by feelings or attachment. The smoke powers come at the expense of conscience and human attachment. This would explain why Mother was able to do such horrible things without remorse. She was protecting the Island and didn't have the ability to care about who she hurt, because she had a job to do. Without the responsibility of protecting the Island, MIB became focused only on escaping and put the same detached reasoning into his plans.
Also on the Anubis note:
Hurley created the fuck out of that sideways universe to bring everybody together when they moved on. When he laughed about the rules and who created them, it was because he did himself but couldn't explain that without spoiling the ending for Sayid.
So, what did we know about Smokey? Or, what did we think we knew? We know that he was described as a security system for the Island. Many of us theorized earlier that he acted as a sort of judge, based in large part on his interactions with Eko (and later the Ben/Alex scene). We also know that MIB said Jacob stole his humanity.
I believe that the Smoke Monster is a power that is supposed to be given to the protector of the Island. Based mainly on inferring that Mother was both protector and monster, this is what made me reevaluate the Anubis carving:
As I mentioned earlier, I'm now interpreting this picture as Anubis welcoming the Smoke into himself, taking on the power to protect the heart, the source of life death and rebirth. MIB didn't have a choice in the matter, seeing as how he was unconscious and all. He did want to use the power of the Island, though, so he was willing even if knocked out. Plus he was the fraternal twin of the Island, so maybe the DNA checks aren't quite 100% in the cork pool and it thought he was Jacob. Either explanation would nail why Desmond and Jack didn't turn into the monster. Neither wanted that power, and neither were protector at the time they went in the cave.
What we saw in the cave was the bodies of previous Island protectors, all having been discarded willingly in the cork room. This is why they weren't flung out of the cave on a pillar of Smoke. They knew what they were getting into and accepted it. MIB had no idea what was going on, and suddenly after getting a second family-induced concussion in a day, he wakes up as an immortal being of smoke and energy, shitting himself and flying into the air because he could.
The protector is supposed to use that power to be a completely impartial judge of the people who come, to help those who have good intentions and to destroy those who don't. Smokey used this to look into people and see whether they would be easily manipulated. Locke and Ben could. Eko couldn't by the time he died. Which, for the record, is why I'm going to say Eko wasn't in the church. Sure it was actually because of the actor, but I'm saying he died completely clean. He had no regrets about how he handled his life and had already moved on while he was alive. This judging ability is where the "stole my humanity" and "fate worse than death" come in. A judge has to be impartial and can't be swayed by feelings or attachment. The smoke powers come at the expense of conscience and human attachment. This would explain why Mother was able to do such horrible things without remorse. She was protecting the Island and didn't have the ability to care about who she hurt, because she had a job to do. Without the responsibility of protecting the Island, MIB became focused only on escaping and put the same detached reasoning into his plans.
Also on the Anubis note:
Wikipedia said:
Hurley created the fuck out of that sideways universe to bring everybody together when they moved on. When he laughed about the rules and who created them, it was because he did himself but couldn't explain that without spoiling the ending for Sayid.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
I've really had a peaceful attitude the past couple days. The End really changed my perspective on some things.G-Fex said:
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Ghost said:
MiB and Jacob themselves also seem to think so (just saw this now).
Click the 5th video link, the one with MiB Kid Edition:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20387946_7,00.html
brandonh83
Banned
Yeah the music at the end was unbelievable. The way he put so many great themes together as well as adding a few fresh flourishes to it, making it sound like a funeral arrangement, was just astounding.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Holy fuck that theory is awesome :bow:
JumpJeff84
Member
Purgatory? Really?
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Whoompthereitis said:
lol?
Something else about that carving that I'm just now noticing after I posted it. Does anybody else see the stone cork in the carving below Anubis/Smokey? Clearly I've gone all the way into the Lost-theory deep end today, but between the third and fourth figures on the bottom row I see the stone cork, with light coming out of it and water dripping onto it.
It could be fire, and probably is fire...but it might not be fire.
It could be fire, and probably is fire...but it might not be fire.
sevenchaos
Banned
About to head into work for twelve hours. I think my reward for getting through it will be a second viewing of the finale.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
Wow, I didn't realize Sundown almost mirrors AtS's massacre.John Harker said:
Yea, she was the smoke monster.
well, im disappointed with the whole finale, and i dont buy that crap "characters are important, and not the story" - no sir, its not.
LOST show was a Mindfuck genre. and, as all mindfucks - it HAS TO HAVE a solution. the reasons for hype were the mysteries.
It's like someone opens a thread here, with an AWESOME riddle, consisted of 2 whole pages, and we solve it for like - 3 years .. and then, he posts:
in that instance, i would personally go, find him, and kill him, and post pics of the MDK process.
Lost themes that would work also instead of magical island:
Prison
wheat field
desert
etc...
if you wanna end the mystical show with: you're all dead, mystical stuff doesnt matter, move on now, nothing to see here - than you're a douchebag, like lindelof and cuse.
my impressions by season, and what i wanted to see:
Season 1 - "Oooh, there's some serios business on the island, lots of crazy stuff, wanna see more!
Season 2 - "Ok, there are some others, and there are a lots of science stuff on the island - there's gotta be some weird property of the island, that has to be explained soon
Season 3 - "Oh my, not only there is a scientific component of the island, it also relies on some kind of mystic stuff, CANT WAIT til that is explained!"
Season 4 - "Oh my, this is getting weirder by the episode. hope it makes sense eventually, we now see the future, as the past"
Season 5 - "greatest SF mistake - dont touch the time travel, you will fail. well, i guess they know what they're doing. "
Season 6 - "damn, Jacob, Nemesis, EGYPTIAN MYTHOLOGY, MAGICAL MAMBO JUMBO, STATUE OF MOTH*FU*IN TAWARET!
end of the show - "unexplained questions win. fatality. let's see jin and sun, sawyer and juliet, jack and kate kiss, and let's move on with our hearts warm .. FAIL!"
LOST show was a Mindfuck genre. and, as all mindfucks - it HAS TO HAVE a solution. the reasons for hype were the mysteries.
It's like someone opens a thread here, with an AWESOME riddle, consisted of 2 whole pages, and we solve it for like - 3 years .. and then, he posts:
in that instance, i would personally go, find him, and kill him, and post pics of the MDK process.
Lost themes that would work also instead of magical island:
Prison
wheat field
desert
etc...
if you wanna end the mystical show with: you're all dead, mystical stuff doesnt matter, move on now, nothing to see here - than you're a douchebag, like lindelof and cuse.
my impressions by season, and what i wanted to see:
Season 1 - "Oooh, there's some serios business on the island, lots of crazy stuff, wanna see more!
Season 2 - "Ok, there are some others, and there are a lots of science stuff on the island - there's gotta be some weird property of the island, that has to be explained soon
Season 3 - "Oh my, not only there is a scientific component of the island, it also relies on some kind of mystic stuff, CANT WAIT til that is explained!"
Season 4 - "Oh my, this is getting weirder by the episode. hope it makes sense eventually, we now see the future, as the past"
Season 5 - "greatest SF mistake - dont touch the time travel, you will fail. well, i guess they know what they're doing. "
Season 6 - "damn, Jacob, Nemesis, EGYPTIAN MYTHOLOGY, MAGICAL MAMBO JUMBO, STATUE OF MOTH*FU*IN TAWARET!
end of the show - "unexplained questions win. fatality. let's see jin and sun, sawyer and juliet, jack and kate kiss, and let's move on with our hearts warm .. FAIL!"
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
I still can't make sense of Young Jacob appearing to Desmond, Sawyer, and Hurley, and also being physical too. What is the deal with that (other than to create a season long mystery)? That's something that makes very little sense.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
None of these impressions involve a single character until the end.:lol :lolIgoritza said:
infinityBCRT
Member
looks like you'll be stuck in purgatory for a long timeNameless said:
Igoritza said:
More than a mystery show, more than a character driven drama, more even than a show about people on a weird fucking island, Lost was and always will be Daddy Issues: The Series. David might not have been "real" but he was a vital part of showing Jack where some of his father's bad parenting came from while allowing him to do what Christian couldn't and take steps toward becoming a good father. He was either a construct of Jack's own issues or something made by whatever/whoever created this in-between to whatever is next. Almost everything we saw in the sideways was something to help the survivors (seems very much the wrong word in the context of a post-life reality which exists outside of time) work through the issues and flaws that bogged them down during life.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
Pellegrino & Welliver seem to have quite a bit of fun together and a good rapport. These dues need their own show (and not just two sci-fi ones together :lol :lol )
brandonh83
Banned
SpeedingUptoStop said:
Lost created a lot of potential performer pairings.
Pellegrino/Welliver
Terry/Emerson
Leung/Holloway
Garcia/Emerson
Emerson/Emerson
Terry/Terry
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
omg rite said:
Oh boy.
Archaix said:
Great theorizing.
The problem I have with it though is that MiB already had the ability to read people and know things. This would mean he was destined to be Smokey wouldn't it? This seems contrary to what Jacob, crazymom, & Smokey thought. Crazymom thought only one of them was needed all along, she just bet on the wrong horse at first.
Also, at some point someone would have to replace Smokey in that role once he was gone, but crazymom seemed to indicated there was never a time some should go down in the cave and rather should be protected from that happening since the light died out (proven briefly by MiB going down in there).
I was thinking that Smokey is created when the wrong person (or corrupt person) tries to attain the power reserved for the Island's protective powers. Jack was accepted as a protector imo and Desmond, as usual, was an anomaly it didn't know what to do with. The assumption at the end of the show was that Hurley would be fine by himself as a protector (with an assist by Ben which Hurley requested, not a demand from the island).
SpeedingUptoStop said:
I have to agree though. It's not like all the characters have terribly interesting back stories. The on-island happenings were far more interesting than learning about Kate, Jack, or Sawyer's pasts, or following their love triangle. It was the plot, not the character relationships, that really drove the show and my interest in it. I mean, Charlie could have ended up with Libby for all I cared, as long as I knew what the heck was happening on the island.
rocksteady1983
Member
This made me laugh quite hard. I'm sure this has been posted several times but I'll post it again for the few that may have missed it. How lost should have ended
Nameless
Member
Nice theory Archaix. Good work.
Also I don't get the "Its never good to touch time travel" arguement. Most people say that because it elimates the stakes & consequences of the situation. Like with Heroes. What's the point of it all if someone was just going to fuck with time and alter all of the ..progress. LOST's take on time travel did the opposite. In fact it increased the stakes since it was impossible to change anything. . What happened happened. Stakes were actually increased because of the very real possibility that you could have caused that which you were were trying to prevent.
Also I don't get the "Its never good to touch time travel" arguement. Most people say that because it elimates the stakes & consequences of the situation. Like with Heroes. What's the point of it all if someone was just going to fuck with time and alter all of the ..progress. LOST's take on time travel did the opposite. In fact it increased the stakes since it was impossible to change anything. . What happened happened. Stakes were actually increased because of the very real possibility that you could have caused that which you were were trying to prevent.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Alucard said:
But that plot was resolved in the finale. Aside from a few non-critical missteps involving Smokey off-island, everything on the show led to Jack defeating pure evil with his fists. I keep reading from people that the show abandoned what made it cool when it seems clear to me that all the cool shit lead directly to the actions in its finale.
VistraNorrez
Member
Igoritza said:
I believe that X was legitimate reality. Yes it was a kind of purgatory, but the lives they lead there were important. It was their last level of existence before they could let go, but they lead real lives there.
And I do not agree the characters backgrounds weren't interesting. I wouldn't have given one shit about were the plot went if I didn't love the characters so much. The fun was seeing all this crazy shit happening and how these characters reacted.
brandonh83
Banned
KevinCow said:
Forgot about that.
What a lot of people don't appreciate is how Lost threw ordinary people ( and even disabled ones ) into something far beyond anything they could have imagined.
I think Abrams once said that the best stories are those that involve absolutely normal characters, faced with impossible situations.
Lost-gaf needs to start writing fan fiction, like NOW.
I think Abrams once said that the best stories are those that involve absolutely normal characters, faced with impossible situations.
Lost-gaf needs to start writing fan fiction, like NOW.
njean777
Member
Archaix said:Okay, here it is. My not-quite-final theory about the Smoke Monster and what he was, along with what he was supposed to be. My assumptions are that Mother did indeed exhibit powers similar to that of Smokey. In addition, I don't believe she was the first protector of the Island.
So, what did we know about Smokey? Or, what did we think we knew? We know that he was described as a security system for the Island. Many of us theorized earlier that he acted as a sort of judge, based in large part on his interactions with Eko (and later the Ben/Alex scene). We also know that MIB said Jacob stole his humanity.
I believe that the Smoke Monster is a power that is supposed to be given to the protector of the Island. Based mainly on inferring that Mother was both protector and monster, this is what made me reevaluate the Anubis carving:
As I mentioned earlier, I'm now interpreting this picture as Anubis welcoming the Smoke into himself, taking on the power to protect the heart, the source of life death and rebirth. MIB didn't have a choice in the matter, seeing as how he was unconscious and all. He did want to use the power of the Island, though, so he was willing even if knocked out. Plus he was the fraternal twin of the Island, so maybe the DNA checks aren't quite 100% in the cork pool and it thought he was Jacob. Either explanation would nail why Desmond and Jack didn't turn into the monster. Neither wanted that power, and neither were protector at the time they went in the cave.
What we saw in the cave was the bodies of previous Island protectors, all having been discarded willingly in the cork room. This is why they weren't flung out of the cave on a pillar of Smoke. They knew what they were getting into and accepted it. MIB had no idea what was going on, and suddenly after getting a second family-induced concussion in a day, he wakes up as an immortal being of smoke and energy, shitting himself and flying into the air because he could.
The protector is supposed to use that power to be a completely impartial judge of the people who come, to help those who have good intentions and to destroy those who don't. Smokey used this to look into people and see whether they would be easily manipulated. Locke and Ben could. Eko couldn't by the time he died. Which, for the record, is why I'm going to say Eko wasn't in the church. Sure it was actually because of the actor, but I'm saying he died completely clean. He had no regrets about how he handled his life and had already moved on while he was alive. This judging ability is where the "stole my humanity" and "fate worse than death" come in. A judge has to be impartial and can't be swayed by feelings or attachment. The smoke powers come at the expense of conscience and human attachment. This would explain why Mother was able to do such horrible things without remorse. She was protecting the Island and didn't have the ability to care about who she hurt, because she had a job to do. Without the responsibility of protecting the Island, MIB became focused only on escaping and put the same detached reasoning into his plans.
Also on the Anubis note:
Hurley created the fuck out of that sideways universe to bring everybody together when they moved on. When he laughed about the rules and who created them, it was because he did himself but couldn't explain that without spoiling the ending for Sayid.
your theory is the one im going to tell all my friends that ask about the smoke monster. It makes since and i like it :lol
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