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[Dead]

They wanted to change a lot but if you recall that was writer strike era and he was legally bound to not do any script changes whatsoever.

oh right. Makes sense.

 

[Erigu]

What the time-travel plot line showed us was that our characters were directly responsible for bringing themselves to the island (via a chain reaction). How is that not significant?

How is it significant? It's just a gratuitous causality loop.

we didn't know the implications of the Incident and all the events surrounding it.

What are they? Was the incident ever brought up again, in season 6? I can think of "flash-sideways Daniel" mentioning Jughead as a possible explanation for the existence of their world, but it turned out it wasn't an alternate timeline after all, soooo...
(which is bullshit, by the way: it's obvious it was supposed to be an alternate timeline, and the writers changed their mind late in season 6... "well, crap, I don't know how to explain that alternate timeline after all. writing is hard. let's just say the flash-sideways were some kind of afterlife. who cares. besides, some will probably think it's "so deep and spiritual" anyway...")

The DI sealed the room away after they tested it with the polar bear. Perhaps they decided playing with the time-space continuum like that was inadvisable and wanted some distance from the light. It's not that hard to come up with a plausible explanation for the room being sealed.

It's just odd how that thing is neatly sealed behind a laboratory. And how I really don't see how polar bears could go into that cave.

Widmore was trying to get back to the Island. He scouted the exit point to see if he could use someone to reach that goal. Locke came through. He used Locke.

How? How did he use Locke?

Lapidus wasn't aware of any boat, IIRC.

Well, they should have told him about it, really...

The plane was safer than the boat because of the choppy waves.

I'm not sure how you could call taking off on a airliner that was fixed with duct tape "safe" in any way. The whole thing was oh-so-silly.

Jacob wanted to control events as much as possible so he could correct his mistake (i.e. kill MiB) and also find a replacement.

Sorry, but I really don't see how that answers my question. Why prevent people from leaving? Surely, Jacob's replacement wouldn't want to leave anyway. Or he/she would probably be the wrong guy/gal for the job in the first place.

Locke was his main rival. If they both arrived on the Island, Locke would be given leadership of the Others again. Ben was just trying to eliminate his competition.

He could have done that by having Locke turn the wheel. Hell, the guy was apparently willing to do it.
And again, Locke was about to kill himself anyway.

Ben was jealous of Locke's communion with the Island.

What "communion"? Locke's legs were healed, but so was Rose's cancer. If anything, Ben was the special one, with his tumor.

The faith to let go. Jack's main issue was his constant need to fix things. Once he let go of that incessant urge, things started working out.

He let go of his constant need to fix things... by replacing Jacob as the island's protector? And then sacrificing himself to fix the island?
Even in the afterlife, he was still all about fixing things, going as far as to visit Locke's dentist.
The show says one thing but does another.

And they could have put the show in chronological order. Why would that be a good idea?

So was it important for the Jacob / MIB introduction to be in the time-travel season specifically? How?

He needed the MiB to feel like he'd won. It forced his hand. Instead of staying in the background, he revealed himself and allowed people to coalesce and work against him. Ultimately it spelled his downfall.

That makes no sense, sorry. If anything, Jacob's death made MIB less powerful, as he was stuck with Locke's appearance (for some reason). So why would he become more confident? Was Jacob hindering the MIB's plans back when he was alive? Why didn't the MIB plot to have the candidates kill each other back when he could shape-shift? Wouldn't that have been a hell of a lot easier? Why wait?

Jacob knew what was up. He had set all the pieces in motion. Thousands of years on an island can let you plan out every last detail.

It certainly didn't look that way to me. In the end, they had to decide who would replace Jacob quick quick before the magical ashes burn out!
(they're ashes that burn because they're magical ashes!)
Wouldn't it have been safer to... well, not get killed before choosing a replacement?

Then again, wouldn't it have been safer not to bring anybody on the damn island in the first place?
"Gee, I just brought people on the island, and after almost two millennia, my murderous brother finally got the idea to try and get one of them to kill me. What should I do...? I know! Bring more people!"
"But he needed someone to replace him!" Yeah, in case his brother killed him. Which he wouldn't be able to do if nobody was brought on the island in the first place.
And really, why bring so many people when you only need one replacement? Why so many candidates? And why not go to them and explain the whole deal right away instead of waiting until it's almost too late?
The whole thing is so contrived it's hilarious.

The rule was that he couldn't hurt his brother. In the end, he didn't. He manipulated someone else into hurting his brother.

That's exactly what he tried with Richard many, many years ago.
So why this exchange, in the season 5 finale?

LOCKE: Hello, Jacob.
JACOB: Well, you found your loophole.
LOCKE: Indeed I did.

It's the exact same "loophole" from way back then. Nothing new. Jacob and the MIB even talked about it right afterward (and then, the MIB dramatically smashed a bottle of wine, sending huge amounts of cheese flying in all directions).

What exactly did Desmond do that you couldn't apply "whatever happened, happened" to?

Change the circumstances of Charlie's death, for example.

Maybe Richard was lying.

Why would he lie about that? What would the point be?

People that have guns to their faces become less reliable witnesses.

I find it often comes down to this, in Lost debates... "Well, what they did was stupid, but it was a stressful situation! They were on this crazy island! So much stress!"
'Sounds like a free pass to all kinds of idiot plots to me...

Plus, the next time she saw him was 16 years later. That's a long time to remember a face.

Well, it's not like she's seen a lot of people in the meantime, really...

Yes, but the sickness exacerbated the issue.

I dunno, man. Before the sickness, he shot a kid just for kicks. After it, he spared Zoe's life (why?).

I think we can infer that both he and Jacob were persuasive in a profound way. That's why you need to stab them before they speak.

All the more reason for Jacob to come out of the woods and speak up as soon as possible instead of staying in his foot-shaped bungalow and letting himself killed because "oh, well, I'll think of something."

Part of it is that MiB makes promises for things that he knows you want (since he can read your past). So he makes Sayid a soulless killing machine. However, the one thing that can overcome this affliction is love (the greatest cure of all).

That sentence could give a unicorn diabetes... ^^;

there are some things that you just have to suspend your disbelief and accept (as it is with every single story ever).

Not all stories put so much strain on the audience's suspension of disbelief. Far from it. Fortunately.

Because if you keep asking questions, as Crazy Mommy says, the answers will just lead to more questions.

Don't remind me of that line... Oh, so meta. Oh, so proudly dumb.

At that point Ben had to work together with Locke.

Why? Why not simply tell him "sure, go ahead, turn the wheel!"? Not convoluted enough?

 

[oatmeal]

Wow...

He refuted EVERY SINGLE POINT. :lol

That's actually really funny. He's so obsessed with 'winning' this that he is just saying no because he doesn't want to be wrong. :lol

I was right. Hurt pussy.

 

[Erigu]

He's so obsessed with 'winning' this that he is just saying no because he doesn't want to be wrong. :lol

Yeah, or simply because I disagree.

I was right. Hurt pussy.

You're just saying that because you don't want to be wrong. :lol

 

[oatmeal]

Yeah, or simply because I disagree.


You're just saying that because you don't want to be wrong. :lol

I'm not wrong, you're not wrong.

That's not what it's about...

 

[Drealmcc0y]

One thing is definetly clear.

Erigu cant think for himself

 

[Erigu]

I'm not wrong, you're not wrong.
That's not what it's about...

No, it's not: I was joking.
I thought it was funny how you posted just to say that I'm "obsessed with winning"... right before stating "I was right". So I took a page from your nonsensical argument and replied that you were saying that "just because you didn't want to be wrong".
A joke. Haha. OK, it wasn't all that funny, but I thought it was somewhat obvious.

One thing is definetly clear.
Erigu cant think for himself

You sure did a great job demonstrating that.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

TCA Awards: LOST ties with Breaking Bad for Outstanding achievment in Drama

http://www.sl-lost.com/2010/08/01/t...ing-bad-for-outstanding-achievement-in-drama/

 

[WillyFive]

Wow...

He refuted EVERY SINGLE POINT. :lol

That's actually really funny. He's so obsessed with 'winning' this that he is just saying no because he doesn't want to be wrong. :lol

I was right. Hurt pussy.

You are laughing at him because you were wrong and lost? :lol

People here can't take it when someone beats them at their own game.

 

[Maxrunner]

I think they are.

In my mind, Damon is writing ST2 (in addition to producing, as he did in the first, which he didn't write) to pump up the script/offset O+K, which brought ST1 down a bit.

Seems to me people are getting hip to O+K's shit.

I wonder if JJ could've just had them off writing duties, but that'd probably be a whole can of worms.

Edit: I see that O+K did NOT produce ST2009. Just JJ and Damon.

Edit2: Ok, I'm totally putting together a narrative in my head where JJ and Damon want O+K off the ST sequel, but the studio doesn't. Instead, JJ/Damon just pitch Damon also taking a hand in the script. He then shelves most of their draft :lol .

damon quit, hes writiing the alien prequel..

 

[gdt]

damon quit, hes writiing the alien prequel..

He's writing both STII and the Alien script.

 

[Radogol]

damon quit, hes writiing the alien prequel..

Did he? Can't he write both?

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Damon Godelof says:

Lost co-creator Damon Lindelof was cheerful and upbeat — and candid — in accepting the TCA award for outstanding drama series. In the evening's most acerbic, outspoken — and funny — speech, Lindelof read hateful emails and Twitter feeds he fielded in the hours and days after the Lost finale aired.

"This is particularly sweet because, as some of you may or may not be aware, there are people out there who did not particularly like the way we ended the show. Here are a couple of choice selections from my Twitter feed. This is from Harriet: 'My very first tweet. I started this account just to let you know how disappointed I was. You blew it big time.' This is from Ryan: 'Hey, Lindelof. Hey, douche. Just give me six years of my life back.' This is from Justin: 'Has anyone accused you of being an emotional terrorist yet? Oh, and research these words: Closure. And, actual explanations.' Jeff writes, 'You suck.' This one reads, 'Please don't ruin Star Trek by ending it in Klingon purgatory.' This is on the morning of the Emmy nominations" — Lost was nominated for outstanding dramatic series, alongside Mad Men, Dexter and others — "'If 'outstanding' means destroying an entire six-season series with one lame episode, then you are a shoo-in.' And then finally, this: 'You're a dirty liar. You never knew, you made it all up, you tricked us all, you betrayed me and I hope you rot, mother—.' That one is signed, J.J. Abrams."

Lindelof turned serious and admitted that, early on, he was terrified that Lost would never last more than a single episode, that it would be impossible to sustain over the long haul, and that it would be swiftly cancelled. After the initial reaction — the laudatory reviews, the early ratings success and an Emmy nomination in its first season — "I began to wonder if I had got it wrong and that maybe, maybe there were two seasons there.

"Thank you for being John Locke to my Jack Shepard," he told the room.

http://communities.canada.com/share...indelof-tom-hanks-and-the-kids-from-glee.aspx

 

[oatmeal]

You are laughing at him because you were wrong and lost? :lol

People here can't take it when someone beats them at their own game.

I lost?

What? I haven't done anything to lose.

 

[brandonh83]

Everyone give up. The haters have won. There's no debate.

 

[Arment]

Everyone give up. The haters have won. There's no debate.

Yes, that point by point refutation was full of incite as to why I should now hate this show. Clearly someone should have told Lapidus there was a boat. Just, wow. Bad show.

 

[Erigu]

Clearly someone should have told Lapidus there was a boat.

Well, yeah. Maybe you don't have a problem with the characters all agreeing that it's a great idea to try and take off on an airliner that crash-landed on a deserted island and was fixed with duct tape by three guys (none of whom are mechanics) in a matter of minutes, but I kinda do. "How about we just stay on the boat and ask Lapidus and the others to join us instead?"

On that same topic... A good portion of the season dealt with the characters worrying about MIB using the plane to escape the island... Thing is, how would he have done that? He had no pilot, and there was a tree in the plane's cockpit.
But Lapidus, the pilot of the plane who was right there in the cockpit when his co-pilot was impaled on a tree, doesn't say a word when all those discussions go on around him. Okay.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

On that same topic... A good portion of the season dealt with the characters worrying about MIB using the plane to escape the island... Thing is, how would he have done that? He had no pilot, and there was a tree in the plane's cockpit.
But Lapidus, the pilot of the plane who was right there in the cockpit when his co-pilot was impaled on a tree, doesn't say a word when all those discussions go on around him. Okay.

I think if a Smoke Monster threatens to leave a time travelling island via an airplane, your first thought isn't "That's impossible".

 

[Erigu]

I think if a Smoke Monster threatens to leave a time travelling island via an airplane, your first thought isn't "That's impossible".

And god knows stories where absolutely anything is possible at any given time are thrilling.

Alt reply: "What does the smoke monster need with a plane?"

 

[cyclonekruse]

How is it significant? It's just a gratuitous causality loop.

One significant thing it did was give a slew of information to the audience. Do you also have a problem that they showed things in flashbacks? Because it seems by your logic, those were all unnecessary too. Another significant thing S5 did was to advance the development of several characters and their relationships. It's where Sawyer and Juliet fell in love (something that wasn't possible for S1 Sawyer). It's where you could see Jack not trying quite so hard. It's where Miles gets over his daddy issues. It's where we saw Faraday lose Charlotte (which was an impetus to try to change his past).

Did their actions in the past alter their future? No. But at the time, we didn't know that. And it was tense because of it. And after, we realized that they were the cause of their own crash landing on the island. That's very Greek tragedy. They caused the very thing they tried to prevent. Though, if they had not detonated the bomb (leading to the plane crash), the world would have ended, so it's not so tragic when seen like that.

What are they? Was the incident ever brought up again, in season 6? I can think of "flash-sideways Daniel" mentioning Jughead as a possible explanation for the existence of their world, but it turned out it wasn't an alternate timeline after all, soooo...

It doesn't matter if the Incident was brought up again. There were still plenty of inferences to be drawn from it. We learned that it was the cause of the pregnancy issues on the island. We learned from the Incident that releasing the energy, pulling the cork on it as it were, has profound consequences in the form of destroying the Island. We learned that Candle/Halliwax/Chang was actually telling the truth in those orientation films (which is something that couldn't be assumed before given all the lies he told). For that reason alone, we needed to see the Incident. Otherwise we might have assumed it was just something Chang had said as part of one of the experiments.

(which is bullshit, by the way: it's obvious it was supposed to be an alternate timeline, and the writers changed their mind late in season 6... "well, crap, I don't know how to explain that alternate timeline after all. writing is hard. let's just say the flash-sideways were some kind of afterlife. who cares. besides, some will probably think it's "so deep and spiritual" anyway...")

You are so wrong about this. They had said since the beginning of the flash-sideways that it wasn't an alternate timeline. And there are lots of little clues given throughout the show that point to it being the afterlife. "Christian Shepherd." The "Dharma" Initiative. The bleeding effects between the Sideways and the real world when characters were having near-death experiences. Dead characters appearing to be alive (e.g. Charlie appearing to Hurley..."I AM dead. But I'm also here.").

It's just odd how that thing is neatly sealed behind a laboratory. And how I really don't see how polar bears could go into that cave.

Why is it odd? The got to the cave. Saw the donkey wheel. Decided it was safer to have a polar bear turn it. Saw it disappear. Decided it was safer to seal the cave. Built the lab to do just that.

How? How did he use Locke?

He tracked Locke to find out how to get back to the Island. And he helped in every way that he could.

Well, they should have told him about it, really...

Why? They trusted him more as a pilot than they trusted any of themselves to sail a ship.

I'm not sure how you could call taking off on a airliner that was fixed with duct tape "safe" in any way. The whole thing was oh-so-silly.

Who knew it was patched with tape? Miles, Richard, and Lapidus. Who knew about the boat? Kate, Claire, and Sawyer. Without knowledge of the duct tape, those three might think the plane is their best chance of survival over a boat with no lasting provisions sailing blindly into the ocean.

Sorry, but I really don't see how that answers my question. Why prevent people from leaving? Surely, Jacob's replacement wouldn't want to leave anyway. Or he/she would probably be the wrong guy/gal for the job in the first place.

Jacob had to convince them to be the replacement first. That took some doing. And he couldn't allow his potential replacements to leave. So he kept them there. Why did he keep everyone there? Again, it comes down to control. He needed to control as many of the circumstances as he could.

He could have done that by having Locke turn the wheel. Hell, the guy was apparently willing to do it.
And again, Locke was about to kill himself anyway.

You forget that Ben had a settle to score with Widmore and was motivated to leave the island to get even for Alex's murder. And you also forget that Ben needed some information from Locke. So he had to talk Locke down from suicide. Once he had that information, Locke became a liability that he dealt with by killing him. This was explained explicitly in the show.

What "communion"? Locke's legs were healed, but so was Rose's cancer. If anything, Ben was the special one, with his tumor.

The whole being able to predict the weather down to the second thing. He had some connection to the island.

He let go of his constant need to fix things... by replacing Jacob as the island's protector? And then sacrificing himself to fix the island?

Yep. It wasn't his need for control that drove those actions. He mentioned a feeling that kept him on the Island to Sawyer when Sawyer kicked him off the boat. That feeling of faith in the Island, for lack of a better way to put it, now defined him.

Even in the afterlife, he was still all about fixing things, going as far as to visit Locke's dentist.
The show says one thing but does another.

In the afterlife, until he was "awakened" he wasn't privy to the lessons that he had learned when alive.

So was it important for the Jacob / MIB introduction to be in the time-travel season specifically? How?

It was an entertaining way to tell the story.

That makes no sense, sorry. If anything, Jacob's death made MIB less powerful, as he was stuck with Locke's appearance (for some reason). So why would he become more confident? Was Jacob hindering the MIB's plans back when he was alive? Why didn't the MIB plot to have the candidates kill each other back when he could shape-shift? Wouldn't that have been a hell of a lot easier? Why wait?

Yes, but MiB thought he had won. He thought he had rid himself of the island's protector. That made him more confident. He would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for those pesky candidates and their mangy dog.

And Jacob was most certainly hindering MiB's plans to leave the island. That was their central conflict. MiB also did plot to have the candidate's kill each other. He appeared as dripping Walt in the jungle to Shannon which led to her getting shot. This was probably supposed to make Sayid kill Ana Lucia in retaliation as well.

It certainly didn't look that way to me. In the end, they had to decide who would replace Jacob quick quick before the magical ashes burn out!
(they're ashes that burn because they're magical ashes!)
Wouldn't it have been safer to... well, not get killed before choosing a replacement?

All according to plan.

Then again, wouldn't it have been safer not to bring anybody on the damn island in the first place?
"Gee, I just brought people on the island, and after almost two millennia, my murderous brother finally got the idea to try and get one of them to kill me. What should I do...? I know! Bring more people!"
"But he needed someone to replace him!" Yeah, in case his brother killed him. Which he wouldn't be able to do if nobody was brought on the island in the first place.
And really, why bring so many people when you only need one replacement? Why so many candidates? And why not go to them and explain the whole deal right away instead of waiting until it's almost too late?
The whole thing is so contrived it's hilarious.

Jacob also wanted to prove the MiB wrong and show that someone would choose the job of their own free will. And MiB would have found a way to kill Jacob without using someone else. Jacob said it was inevitable. I mean, even though Jacob couldn't kill his brother, he did manage to make him die.

That's exactly what he tried with Richard many, many years ago.
So why this exchange, in the season 5 finale?

It's the exact same "loophole" from way back then. Nothing new. Jacob and the MIB even talked about it right afterward (and then, the MIB dramatically smashed a bottle of wine, sending huge amounts of cheese flying in all directions).

After Richard, Jacob had a new line of protection...Richard. Richard was the go-between for Jacob and the rest of the world. You couldn't get to Jacob without Richard showing the way. So the MiB needed to find a loophole to get around the new safeguard.

Change the circumstances of Charlie's death, for example.

When did he do that? To me it looked like Charlie was supposed to always die in the Looking Glass.

Why would he lie about that? What would the point be?

Because he could. I don't know. Does it matter? Not really.

I find it often comes down to this, in Lost debates... "Well, what they did was stupid, but it was a stressful situation! They were on this crazy island! So much stress!"
'Sounds like a free pass to all kinds of idiot plots to me...

Except that what I said is scientifically verified. Your eyes are drawn to the weapon, not the attacker. This causes you to not be able to recall significant details about the attacker.

Well, it's not like she's seen a lot of people in the meantime, really...

And she went a little crazy because of it.

I dunno, man. Before the sickness, he shot a kid just for kicks. After it, he spared Zoe's life (why?).

He shot Ben in a misguided attempt to stop adult Ben from ruining their lives. After he was revived, he spared Zoe because he was an emotionless shell and saw her as not being a threat and not worth exerting any energy on. That was the explanation given in the show.

All the more reason for Jacob to come out of the woods and speak up as soon as possible instead of staying in his foot-shaped bungalow and letting himself killed because "oh, well, I'll think of something."

"I wanted you to have the one thing I didn't...a choice." Whether you buy that is up to you.

That sentence could give a unicorn diabetes... ^^;

The ending was a little saccharin. So it fits.

Not all stories put so much strain on the audience's suspension of disbelief. Far from it. Fortunately.

It didn't strain my disbelief. Of course, I didn't go through looking for inconsistencies either.

Don't remind me of that line... Oh, so meta. Oh, so proudly dumb.

As frustrating as it might be, it's true. You can just accept some things. Or you can be like kids incessantly asking "Why?" to their parents every answer.

 

[oatmeal]

This is going to go on forever.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Yeah, the format alone is annoying me.

 

[cyclonekruse]

I'm actually done, I think. I figured I'd give it one more go, though. Someone else can answer his next bout of tiresome questions. Or not. It's not like it will make any difference on anyone's opinion one way or the other.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

And god knows stories where absolutely anything is possible at any given time are thrilling.

Who said anything is possible? I'm just saying it's a legit reason for Lapidus to not bring up the plane when talking about a man that can turn into smoke. To him, the island is seemingly full of impossibilities. The idea of him questioning a plane with a broken window and dodgy hydraulics taking off really does not matter to me. At all.

Alt reply: "What does the smoke monster need with a plane?"

They know he wants off the island. Sawyer already asked why he doesn't just cross the water and he says that he can't, to which Sawyer replies "Yeah, because that would be ridiculous", further strengthening the idea that typical questions don't necessarily apply to Lost since these characters have had their world flipped upside down and are inadvertently taking part in a sci-fi fantasy.

God knows how boring the show would be if they appeased all of your nitpicky questions about dialogue and such. Just assume they talk about that stuff off camera. "The Losties should talk to each other about what the heck is happening to them more often" has been a criticism since day 1, but I think that unless what they're saying is new information for the viewer, or decent character dialogue/development, then we don't need to see it.

 

[Erigu]

One significant thing it did was give a slew of information to the audience.

Like what? We got to see the DHARMA initiative for ourselves... and it turned out they were just a bunch of clueless hippies after all. Well, that was totally worth all the build up.
Also, Ben is a manipulative bastard because he was healed by some magic water that robbed him of his innocence back when he was a kid. ... Seriously?

As for the castaways and a hydrogen bomb being involved... Well, I went over that several times already. It was unnecessary and ultimately pointless.

Do you also have a problem that they showed things in flashbacks?

Not the same thing at all... Knowing the background of a character can tell you a lot of things about him/her (for example, Kate was a fugitive, and she was a fugitive, and she was a fugitive).

It's where Sawyer and Juliet fell in love (something that wasn't possible for S1 Sawyer).

But something that would have been possible without time-travel, really. They were left behind on the island. Three years passed. There you go.

It's where you could see Jack not trying quite so hard.

Trying to set off a hydrogen bomb is "not trying quite so hard"? Just what does he do when he tries hard? :lol

It's where Miles gets over his daddy issues.

Admittedly. And considering Miles was pretty much flat out of things to do after that...

It's where we saw Faraday lose Charlotte (which was an impetus to try to change his past).

(... which didn't work out in the end and had no consequences for the rest of the series, which was pretty much my point)

Did their actions in the past alter their future? No. But at the time, we didn't know that. And it was tense because of it.

I thought it was just stupid, sorry. :lol
If "whatever happened, happened", there was no way to change anything. And stuff like Ben surviving the gunwound after all, or Richard remembering Jack and the others in 2007 (except you didn't watch them die, Richard... what was up with that, anyway?) pretty much meant it was indeed a "whatever happened, happened" scenario.
So all I saw was a bunch of characters acting like idiots, including the supposed expert on the subject ("wait, did I say we couldn't change history? why, of course, we can! I don't know why it took me years to realize that we got to choose our destiny! it must be that Hollywood cliché about us geniuses constantly missing the obvious so the non-genial viewers wouldn't feel inappropriate, except cranked up to 11!").

And after, we realized that they were the cause of their own crash landing on the island. That's very Greek tragedy. They caused the very thing they tried to prevent.

Considering the idea was that there was nothing they could do to avoid it, it's actually completely meaningless.

Though, if they had not detonated the bomb (leading to the plane crash), the world would have ended

But that couldn't happen, or you'd have a big fat grandfather paradox on your hands.

It doesn't matter if the Incident was brought up again.

It does matter that it ended up not mattering at all in season 6.
(... there's got to be better way to put that :lol )

We learned that it was the cause of the pregnancy issues on the island.

No, we didn't, really.
We saw that Ethan was born before the incident, implying there were no pregnancy issues back then. And we know there were pregnancy issues decades later.
When did that change? Never said. Why did that change? Never said.

What you did is merely extrapolate that the incident was responsible, not because it makes sense for such an incident to cause those pregnancy issues (what kind of electromagnetism or radiation causes pregnant women to die if they stay on the island during the whole pregnancy, whereas everything works out of the baby is conceived off-island and born on the island (Alex, Aaron), or conceived on the island and born off-island (Ji-yeon)? magical electromagnetism, presumably!), but simply because we don't really know about any other major event in-between those two points.

The whole thing was stupid anyway. Why couldn't the Others' pregnant women just take the sub and give birth off-island? Others like Richard or Tom were apparently leaving the island every now and then (even right after the implosion of the Swan station, for Tom, despite the fact it shouldn't have been possible according to Mikhael... just saying), so that shouldn't have been a problem, really.

(and of course, you'd think the statue of Taweret, goddess of childbirth, had something to do with that, but you'd be wrong!)

We learned from the Incident that releasing the energy, pulling the cork on it as it were, has profound consequences in the form of destroying the Island.

No, we didn't. And that wasn't the (amusingly literal) cork of the island anyway, really.

We learned that Candle/Halliwax/Chang was actually telling the truth in those orientation films (which is something that couldn't be assumed before given all the lies he told).

Yeah, like all the fake names. What was the point, again?
He also pretended he still had both arms in his 1980 video for the Pearl, and that's got to be the biggest lie of them all. :lol

But really, was there any doubt all that stuff about the Swan was true? Wasn't that question put to rest years before with the season 2 finale?

You are so wrong about this. They had said since the beginning of the flash-sideways that it wasn't an alternate timeline.

I'm afraid you are so wrong about this.
Here's what they had to say right after the season 6 premiere:

Lindelof: Should you infer that the detonation of Jughead is what sunk the island? Who knows? But there’s the Foot. What do you get when you see that shot? It looks like New Otherton got built. These little clues [might help you] extrapolate when the Island may have sunk. Start to think about it. A couple of episodes down the road, some of the characters might even discuss it. We will say this: season 6 is not about time travel. It’s about the implications, the aftermath, and the causality of trying to change the past.

Can we agree that's absolutely not what season 6 turned out to be about? That there was really no point in trying and spotting clues as to when the island sank, in the end? That Lindelof's words make it pretty clear the whole thing was, like I said in my previous message, supposed to be a parallel timeline?

As for the term "alternate", here's what they said about that in that same interview:

Lindelof: [...] we don’t use the phrase “alternate reality,” because to call one of them an “alternate reality” is to infer that one of them isn’t real, or one of them is real and the other is the alternate to being real.

So the point was to say that they were both real (which is actually a stupid point to make, as "alternate reality" doesn't infer anything about "not being real"... especially considering we have that "reality" word, which... ah, well!).
And of course, in the end, that turned out to be quite debatable.

Take your pick: either they blatantly lied in interviews (when they really didn't have to), or they changed their mind at some point while they were writing the last season.
Not sure which is worse anyway, but I'd go with the latter, as it certainly wouldn't be the first time those writers proved they were unable to plan ahead for more than four or five episodes (and Sideways-Daniel's comment about setting off a hydrogen bomb etc makes me think it was still an alternate timeline at that point).

And there are lots of little clues given throughout the show that point to it being the afterlife. "Christian Shepherd." The "Dharma" Initiative.

C'mon... There are tons of works of fiction with religious symbolism or imagery out there that don't end on a purely "spiritual" note like the "they're in the afterlife! in a church! and here comes the light!" twist.

The bleeding effects between the Sideways and the real world when characters were having near-death experiences.

'Could just as well have been bleeding effects between parallel timelines...

Dead characters appearing to be alive (e.g. Charlie appearing to Hurley..."I AM dead. But I'm also here.").

Compatible with the afterlife they introduced in season 6, really?

The got to the cave. Saw the donkey wheel. Decided it was safer to have a polar bear turn it.

'Didn't seem like a human being couldn't handle it, really...

Scientists find a cold cave... "Darn, we gonna need ourselves some polar bears!"
It only makes sense, indeed. :lol

Saw it disappear. Decided it was safer to seal the cave.

"You know, guys, I think we really shouldn't have ordered so many polar bears, in retrospect..."

Built the lab to do just that.

Because labs are ideal ways to seal stuff like that?

He tracked Locke to find out how to get back to the Island.

Did he? I saw him take care of Locke, but no sign of him trying to find out how to get back to the Island.
(besides, it should have been quite easy for Widmore, really: as we later find out, he had the address of the Lamp Post right there on his desk all along! :lol )
In fact, Widmore only talked about helping Locke to get back to the island along with the Oceanic 6, because, according to him, a war was coming, and they needed to be back on the island before it happened, or the wrong side would win.

They trusted him more as a pilot than they trusted any of themselves to sail a ship.

OK, where does that come from? :lol
Kate could handle the ship just fine, apparently...

SAWYER: How about it, Freckles? Know anything about sailing?
KATE: I know enough.

And really, it's not Lapidus I'd be worried about, but the plane, like I said a bunch of times already.

Who knew it was patched with tape? Miles, Richard, and Lapidus. Who knew about the boat? Kate, Claire, and Sawyer. Without knowledge of the duct tape, those three might think the plane is their best chance of survival over a boat with no lasting provisions sailing blindly into the ocean.

C'mon, the duct tape is just a funny detail, the cherry on the top of the silly cake...
The thing is, it's a damn airliner that crash-landed on a small island. Not a nice little Cessna or anything like that. You just don't quickly fix those things up and expect them to take off (especially with no actual runway). Except in a ludicrous show like Lost, apparently...

Jacob had to convince them to be the replacement first. That took some doing.

And when did that "doing" happen, exactly? What did Jacob do to convince them, during the course of the series?

You forget that Ben had a settle to score with Widmore and was motivated to leave the island to get even for Alex's murder.

Yes, I admit I tend to forget about that contrived subplot...
"I can't kill you, so I'll go after your daughter!"
"Well, I couldn't kill your daughter, so I'll just kill you after all, I guess. Rules? What rules?"

But did he really need to go there himself, when he apparently had agents on mainland that could do his dirty work?
Did he really need to leave the island by turning the wheel (he said you weren't allowed to go back once you'd done that, but then again, he did go back, so maybe he lied, but then again, why would he lie about that? ... "mess of a show", like I said)?
Did he really need to tell Locke where to find the Others and that they would follow his orders (i.e. to basically tell Locke he now is the new leader, and help him with that)?

And you also forget that Ben needed some information from Locke. So he had to talk Locke down from suicide.

And what information was that? That they needed to go find Eloise Hawking. That's it.
And Ben knew Eloise Hawking. And he apparently knew where to find her as well. And he then helped Hawking reunite the castaways.
So Ben and Hawking knew each other, had the same goal, and didn't mind working together, but for some reason, Ben absolutely needed to get that tidbit of "information" from Locke. Well, okay, then!

The whole being able to predict the weather down to the second thing. He had some connection to the island.

Seriously? How was that ever implied to be a supernatural ability in any way? ^^;
That was just Locke showing off his mad hunter skills to Boone...

It wasn't his need for control that drove those actions. He mentioned a feeling that kept him on the Island to Sawyer when Sawyer kicked him off the boat. That feeling of faith in the Island, for lack of a better way to put it, now defined him.

How are his belief that he's meant to do something on the island and his constant need to fix things mutually exclusive?
Was he "letting go", when he jumped on the MIB after Desmond uncorked the island?
Was he merely trusting his destiny, when he chased the MIB to his boat and 300-jump-punched him while all hell was breaking loose, because "no, mortal old man, I'm not letting you escape the island, as mortal old men are a menace to mankind!"?
And what about when everybody was telling him not to go re-cork the island? "Sorry, 'gotta fix this!"

In the afterlife, until he was "awakened" he wasn't privy to the lessons that he had learned when alive.

So much for character growth.

It was an entertaining way to tell the story.

But that doesn't answer my question: what was the connection between the Jacob / MIB reveal and the time travel plot?

Yes, but MiB thought he had won. He thought he had rid himself of the island's protector. That made him more confident. He would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for those pesky candidates and their mangy dog.

And even Scooby-Doo villains know to stay in the shadows as long as possible.
Seriously, why did the guy even "recruit"? 'Guess they had to fill those episodes with something.

And Jacob was most certainly hindering MiB's plans to leave the island.

Yes, but what about killing the candidates? Sure, Jacob apparently made some rules so he wouldn't be able to kill them (and Desmond? and why didn't Jacob just make it a rule that the MIB couldn't kill anybody? because he's a bit of an ass?), but the whole thing about having them kill each other... well, he could have worked on that before.

MiB also did plot to have the candidate's kill each other. He appeared as dripping Walt in the jungle to Shannon which led to her getting shot.

So the MIB can also take the appearance of living people, now?

All according to plan.

I'm afraid I don't find simply being told that a character is a genial mastermind all that engrossing. I think it's a whole lot better when the audience can actually see and understand just how clever the guy is, really.

Jacob also wanted to prove the MiB wrong and show that someone would choose the job of their own free will.

Was it really worth endangering the world? Especially considering Jacob eventually went "you know what, fuck that! just kill the guy for me, kthanksbye! (but I won't tell you how, nor that I asked Widmore to bring Desmond here for that very purpose, as that would be way too easy!)"

Once again, the whole thing was stupid anyway...
He wants to make a point, so he brings people on the island and lets his brother kill them (because his brother apparently now agrees with their mother about mankind, despite the fact he killed her for acting on that belief)... because if he intervened, that would make the whole bet moot? Really? He expects them to "help themselves"?
"Geeze, if they can't even defend themselves against a murderous monster made of smoke, really!"
Richard points out that maybe, just maybe, he should step in after all... And Jacob goes "well, no, that would be cheating. But I guess I could hire you as a spokesman, and that would completely be fair game! Oh, and I'll give you eternal life in exchange, because that's absolutely not cheating either!"

Goddamnit, Jacob.

And he sure isn't a very practical guy, considering his age, is he?
"Oh hai Ilana. Here's a list of people I want you to protect. But I won't tell you which "Kwon" is the one!"
At this point, why not go all out, really?

Dear Ilana,
Here is the list of people I want you to protect:

_ A _ _ _ _
_ _ _ N
_ _ _ _ S
_ _ S _ _ _
_ _ E _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ E
_ _ T _ _ _ _ _
_ O _ _
_ A _ _ _ _ _

Three of those don't belong (and one of them is an African bird).

Kisses, Jacob

PS: Don't forget to come and visit me at my cabin, where I will most certainly be waiting for you despite what that "shadow of the statue" password thingy may imply!

And MiB would have found a way to kill Jacob without using someone else. Jacob said it was inevitable.

Sure: everything is inevitable. That's what makes the whole thing so thrilling.

After Richard, Jacob had a new line of protection...Richard. Richard was the go-between for Jacob and the rest of the world. You couldn't get to Jacob without Richard showing the way.

Because Jacob living under the statue was a big secret?
Was I supposed to understand the MIB didn't know that Jacob was living under that statue, back when we first saw them, in that season 5 finale?

When did he do that? To me it looked like Charlie was supposed to always die in the Looking Glass.

So all those scenarios where Charlie kept dying no matter what (we actually saw that), Hawking mentioning "course-correction", all that stuff... that was just BS?

(then again, Desmond did say he saw Claire leaving the island with Aaron... 'guess he couldn't see the future beyond what little the writers had planned, and that made him quite unreliable, really)

Because he could. I don't know. Does it matter? Not really.

He lied because he could. And that's it.
Well, that's great writing, right there. :lol

Except that what I said is scientifically verified.

Sure, it is. But most works of fiction deal with situations of crisis, if you go there, and you could justify all kinds of idiotic or inconsistent behavior, with that excuse. It's just lazy.

He shot Ben in a misguided attempt to stop adult Ben from ruining their lives.

It sure was misguided.
"I have to shoot him because I know he will turn into a bastard. Because whatever happened, happened. ... Which means... I can't kill him as a kid anyway...? Wait."
Same thing for Jack, after that.
Clever protagonists.

he spared Zoe because he was an emotionless shell and saw her as not being a threat and not worth exerting any energy on.

He had a gun. She was right in front of him. Just how lazy can he be?

"I wanted you to have the one thing I didn't...a choice." Whether you buy that is up to you.

Considering he caused their plane to crash on a magical island you (normally) can't escape from, I think I'll go with "whatever, Jacob!"

It didn't strain my disbelief. Of course, I didn't go through looking for inconsistencies either.

I don't think you have to look for them any more than you need to look for trees in a forest...

As frustrating as it might be, it's true. You can just accept some things. Or you can be like kids incessantly asking "Why?" to their parents every answer.

And we're having this conversation because scientists once said "oh, fuck that: it's all pointless."

Because it really is priceless:

Lindelof: It’s like when you spend time with a 3-year-old, you quickly find out that one question just begets another — there’s a “why” in the wake of every “why” — and the only way to end the conversation is to say, “Oh look, a Chuck E. Cheese!” The show is doing its best to say, “Oh look, Chuck E. Cheese!”

(source)

Where to begin?
"Damn, that's some terrible parenting!"
"Your viewers are like 3-year-olds? Condescending much?"
I don't even know!

Also, same interview:

Wired: Do you still see that as the central issue, man of faith versus man of science?
Lindelof: The paradigm has shifted from that to, were we brought here for a very specific reason, and what is that reason? Locke is now the voice of a very large subset of the audience who believes that when Lost is all said and done, we will have wasted six years of our lives, that we were making it up as we went along, and that there’s really no purpose. And Jack is now saying, “the only thing I have left to cling to is that there’s got to be something really cool that’s going to happen, because I have really, really fucking suffered.”

(emphasis mine, for lulz)
It's like when you spend time with a senile old man, you quickly find yourself going "geeze, granpa! please shut up, you're embarrassing yourself even if you don't realize it! and put some clothes on!"

Who said anything is possible?

I dunno, you made it sound like smoke monsters also had magical plane-fixing powers or something...

I'm just saying it's a legit reason for Lapidus to not bring up the plane when talking about a man that can turn into smoke. To him, the island is seemingly full of impossibilities. The idea of him questioning a plane with a broken window and dodgy hydraulics taking off really does not matter to me. At all.

Well, I guess I do think he should have spoken up right there and then instead of saving himself for "'looks like someone got their voice back!"

They know he wants off the island. Sawyer already asked why he doesn't just cross the water and he says that he can't, to which Sawyer replies "Yeah, because that would be ridiculous", further strengthening the idea that typical questions don't necessarily apply to Lost since these characters have had their world flipped upside down and are inadvertently taking part in a sci-fi fantasy.

I thought it just strengthened the idea was Lost was a dumb plot-driven show governed by arbitrary rules.
That line was a bit like Miles' "she hits her head and forgets English? Are we supposed to buy that?". Just because you point out it's stupid, that doesn't make it any less stupid, show.

"The Losties should talk to each other about what the heck is happening to them more often" has been a criticism since day 1, but I think that unless what they're saying is new information for the viewer, or decent character dialogue/development, then we don't need to see it.

You think Hurley told them why he almost killed himself over some numbers, in the season 1 finale? 'Cause it really didn't look like he did, and it seems odd that he would never say anything about that.

 

[brandonh83]

Wow. Well. I know I certainly couldn't talk that much about something I don't particularly care for.

 

[Erigu]

Like I said: I had a lot of fun with Lost.

 

[oatmeal]

Now it's just getting laughable... So the statue's destruction not being the reason for the childbirth problems is a bad thing? Even though the real answer, which has been talked about a lot, with people smarter than myself saying it scientifically makes sense that an H-bomb would have such an effect, makes more sense?

Jesus.

And it's so easy to do what he's doing too. You can literally do it for anything.

 

[Fuu]

I just don't think it did "many awesome things", sorry... The premise was nice. There was some amusing misdirection in the opening scenes of a couple of seasons. Apart from that...

Spotting plot holes and inconsistencies is fun. To me, anyway.
I had a lot of fun with Lost.

So Lost is a giant mess and you have fun with shit? Do you actually spend hours and hours watching/reading bad fiction, feeling satisfaction at each new confirmation that what you're dealing with is obviously a load of crap? Genuinely curious about how you deal with entertainment here, I'm not interested in taking "sides".

 

[Minamu]

That is one HELL of a post, man :lol

 

[.GqueB.]

This is going to go on forever.

Tis why I stopped my crusade in this thread after about two replies a while ago. Battles of opinion are the most pointless aspect of internet message boarding... but theyre damn fun to watch.

Article was pretty much spot on though. Jesus was it spot on...

 

[big ander]

Just watched Every Man For Himself with a friend who's going through the series for the first time. Had to leave, but he's about to watch The Cost Of Living. He's an Eko fan. This can only end in hilarity :lol

 

[Erigu]

So the statue's destruction not being the reason for the childbirth problems is a bad thing?

I don't remember saying anything about the statue's destruction triggering the pregnancy issues?
'Just pointing out that we had a Taweret statue that sure looked like it could have been connected to the pregnancy issues in one way or another. But in the end, it was just a loose thread. What was that statue doing there? Who knows.
(in fact, none of the Egyptian stuff ever panned out... but they did put hieroglyphs on the box of the "complete collection" anyway! :lol )

Even though the real answer, which has been talked about a lot, with people smarter than myself saying it scientifically makes sense that an H-bomb would have such an effect, makes more sense?

It makes sense that Sun just had to leave the island to safely give birth?

And it's so easy to do what he's doing too. You can literally do it for anything.

Nah...

So Lost is a giant mess and you have fun with shit? Do you actually spend hours and hours watching/reading bad fiction, feeling satisfaction at each new confirmation that what you're dealing with is obviously a load of crap?

Well, spectacular failures are entertaining/interesting. The only reason I ever watched a Uwe Boll movie.
(I also watch/read good stuff, by the way!)

 

[big ander]

Well, spectacular failures are entertaining. The only reason I ever watched a Uwe Boll movie.

Yeah, but a Uwe Boll movie is 90 minutes. Lost is 5,082 minutes.
Had a response prepared about the egyptians but I'm just going to put you on ignore instead.

 

[oatmeal]

I will give you this, you know the show well. So I can respect that you don't like it or think it's a failure. But the fact that you are trying to change the minds of people that love it is what is ridiculous.

From everything you've written, it sounds like you don't like the direction they took some things (all things apparently). And that's perfectly fine, but don't rag on people who did like it. That's just stupid.

This whole going back and forth thing (and seriously, man...how the hell do you have the patience to keep doing the quote tags? I hate doing more than one) is just bordering on ridiculous. No one can win, so what's the point? If I wanted, I could counterpoint you yet again, and I know you'd just counterpoint right back.

It's futile.
(EDIT)

And yes, you can pick apart everything...every single TV show/movie/book/etc.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Ok, I'm putting him on ignore too.

 

[Erigu]

Yeah, but a Uwe Boll movie is 90 minutes. Lost is 5,082 minutes.

Over 6 years. It's manageable, really.

Had a response prepared about the egyptians but I'm just going to put you on ignore instead.

Nooo! The world will never know! :lol

I will give you this, you know the show well. So I can respect that you don't like it or think it's a failure.

Thank you. I'm so used to see stuff like "how can you criticize the show? you stopped watching it!" or "you kept watching the show despite the fact you think it sucks? well, that obviously means you're a troll and your opinion is invalid!", I really appreciate that.

From everything you've written, it sounds like you don't like the direction they took some things (all things apparently).

Or the method, really. There was a clear lack of care and foresight, in my opinion. From day (well, season) one.

don't rag on people who did like it.

Sorry, that's really not the intent. If anything, my problem would be with the writers.
But I guess it's kinda hard to call a show dumb without indirectly insulting its fans ("you should know better!")... 'Not sure there's a way around that...

This whole going back and forth thing (and seriously, man...how the hell do you have the patience to keep doing the quote tags? I hate doing more than one) is just bordering on ridiculous. No one can win, so what's the point?

I dunno. Should it only be about "winning"?
Sometimes, my interlocutors come up with theories I never considered. And maybe they didn't notice some of the inconsistencies I point out (then again, probably not, as I was pretty much told everything had been said already in this topic... sorry if there was nothing new?). And that can be interesting. ... I think?

And yes, you can pick apart everything...every single TV show/movie/book/etc.

When it's well written, it's a lot harder...

 

[oatmeal]

Over 6 years. It's manageable, really.


Nooo! The world will never know! :lol



Thank you. I'm so used to see stuff like "how can you criticize the show? you stopped watching it!" or "you kept watching the show despite the fact you think it sucks? well, that obviously means you're a troll and your opinion is invalid!", I really appreciate that.


Or the method, really. There was a clear lack of care and foresight, in my opinion. From day (well, season) one.


Sorry, that's really not the intent. If anything, my problem would be with the writers.
But I guess it's kinda hard to call a show dumb without indirectly insulting its fans ("you should know better!")... 'Not sure there's a way around that...


I dunno. Should it only be about "winning"?
Sometimes, my interlocutors come up with theories I never considered. And maybe they didn't notice some of the inconsistencies I point out (the again, probably not, as I was pretty much told everything had been said already in this topic... sorry if there was nothing new?). And that can be interesting. ... I think?


When it's well written, it's a lot harder...

Regardless, I won't put you on ignore, even if you are an annoying twit

 

[threenote]

Get a fucking life, parasite.

 

[Blader]

But I guess it's kinda hard to call a show dumb without indirectly insulting its fans ("you should know better!")... 'Not sure there's a way around that...

"I don't think the show is all that great myself, but I can see there are people who think differently. Agree to disagree I suppose."

Yeah, that was really hard.

 

[big ander]

Over 6 years. It's manageable, really.


Nooo! The world will never know! :lol

Yeah, I would think watching 45 minutes a week of a show you think is utter shit for six years would be more tiring than one movie in a 90 minute shot. I don't know why'd you'd want to manage it unless you're a faux hipster who thinks you're fucking awesome because you can watch something and pick at the "finer points" of it and realize why what you do enjoy is superior true art.
The Egyptians were part of the bigger history of the island, one of the many many groups who came to the island, dumbass. The left the statue just as Dharma left the stations, those slavers left the Black Rock, and the losties left the 815 wreckage.
The only reason I'm responding to your sorry snarky ass is because I clicked "buddy list" instead of "ignore list."
Now respectfully fuck off.

 

[Erigu]

"I don't think the show is all that great myself, but I can see there are people who think differently. Agree to disagree I suppose."

But that's not what I think.

I don't know why'd you'd want to manage it unless you're a faux hipster who thinks you're fucking awesome because you can watch something and pick at the "finer points" of it and realize why what you do enjoy is superior true art.

... Is that my only option, really? :lol
But yeah, I do think it's interesting. I should probably feel bad about this.

The Egyptians were part of the bigger history of the island, one of the many many groups who came to the island, dumbass.

Er... Yeah, I figured as much, thanks. ^_^;
But why Taweret? Why did we see some hieroglyphs on recent maps? Why did Jacob put his list in some huge ankh?

I would add "why did DHARMA put those hieroglyphs in the Swan timer?", but that's just one of those "mysteries" that were obviously never going to be answered anyway (and evidence the writers were just pulling their audience's leg)...
Why would DHARMA guys bother adding hieroglyphs that are only supposed to show up once the timer reaches "zero"? It's a doomsday clock, after all. The idea is that if it reaches "zero", the world goes kaboom. It's idiotic.

 

[Matt]

Why is it odd? The got to the cave. Saw the donkey wheel. Decided it was safer to have a polar bear turn it.

It's been said here already, but my god, this is..... :lol :lol :lol I'm not even exaggerating with the :lol, that was one of the best laughs I have had in a while.

I'm sorry, I really don't mean to be a dick, but, come on! You don't see the mental loops you're jumping through to try to make this absolute mess of a story resemble something the least bit reasonable?

I think "it would be safer to have a polar bear do it" has become one of my new favorite GAF statements.

 

[oatmeal]

It's been said here already, but my god, this is..... :lol :lol :lol I'm not even exaggerating with the :lol, that was one of the best laughs I have had in a while.

I'm sorry, I really don't mean to be a dick, but, come on! You don't see the mental loops you're jumping through to try to make this absolute mess of a story resemble something the least bit reasonable?

I think "it would be safer to have a polar bear do it" has become one of my new favorite GAF statements.

You're kind of taking a mental leap of faith here.

Just because we don't know the exact process for WHY they used polar bears, doesn't mean that that is what the writers wrote.

Why was Don Draper in the platoon he was in which led to his life changing moment? Why is Walter White interested in science and not the arts?

They just are...you have to accept things and not come up with some flimsy argument against. No one asks those questions about those shows, but they do about LOST. Why? I don't know...

There's so much history and 'stuff' to the show that it would be impossible to show.

Anyway:

But that's not what I think.

And that's why people are ignoring you. Your opinion isn't fact, it's no more valid than mine or anyone else in this thread. I'm sure there is shit that you like that I, or the others in here, don't.

But the difference is, we don't care enough about them to spend our time writing lengthy arguments about why we don't.

 

[Blader]

But that's not what I think.

...You don't think there are people with different opinions than yours?

 

[Erigu]

And that's why people are ignoring you. Your opinion isn't fact, it's no more valid than mine or anyone else in this thread.

OK? But how does that mean I should keep it to myself or else? Or change it around so it would be more "acceptable"?

I'm sure there is shit that you like that I, or the others in here, don't.
But the difference is, we don't care enough about them to spend our time writing lengthy arguments about why we don't.

Apparently, yeah. I'm just interested in stuff like that.
So that difference is why I'm being told to "fuck off"? Hmm.

...You don't think there are people with different opinions than yours?

I wouldn't say that "I don't think the show is all that great", because I think it's spectacularly bad, plot-wise.
And yes, I can see that a lot of people love it. And that baffles me.

 

[oatmeal]

OK? But how does that mean I should keep it to myself or else? Or change it around so it would be more "acceptable"?

Why is everything so dramatic with you?

No one is saying "keep it to yourself OR ELSE"... just you.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

I AM A GIANT MORON

YOU SIR, ARE A FUCKING MORON.

 

[Matt]

You're kind of taking a mental leap of faith here.

Just because we don't know the exact process for WHY they used polar bears, doesn't mean that that is what the writers wrote.

Why was Don Draper in the platoon he was in which led to his life changing moment? Why is Walter White interested in science and not the arts?

They just are...you have to accept things and not come up with some flimsy argument against. No one asks those questions about those shows, but they do about LOST. Why? I don't know...

There's so much history and 'stuff' to the show that it would be impossible to show.

The difference is that Mad Men and Breaking Bad take place in the "real" world, whereas Lost takes place in a world where the writers have invented new rules and possibilities for the characters and events to follow. We don't need to be told why Walter likes science, because we all understand the process through which people develop their own interests, even if we don't know the specifics.

In Lost's world, however, we do need to be told why some random scientists thought it would be a better idea to train polar bears to turn a random magical donkey wheel rather then, you know, turning it themselves, or using a robot, or just leaving it alone, because otherwise these events happening just seem strange and random to the viewer.

Now, you're right, some ambiguity is fine, and if at the end of this show we were only left wondering why they had polar bears doing this job, or other such small and trivial questions, fine, no one would really care. Lost for much of the run was very well written and well produced, and the number one thing I always loved about the show was the character development (the best stuff was always in the flashbacks, not on the island). The point is that the entire show was, in the end, left as an unexplained mess (just like this crazy polar bear issue), where a ton of the actions of characters and the meanings of events from the show's six year run still make no sense to the viewers.

Lost invites more questions then Mad Men or Breaking Bad because we already know the answers to most of those shows' mysteries. We never got to that point with Lost.

 

[Snuggles]

Lost is fun to watch.