brandonh83
Banned
Willy105 said:
There's no fucking way I would leave my wife alone to drown in a dark, sinking submarine
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Erigu said:
Of course not, that's not what happening. In the past I agreed with your complaints, even if I thought they were ridiculous. But that last one contradicts the show. It has nothing to do with how "nice" you are to me, this isn't kindergarten.
What the heck? The plot was not nonsensical, it was just presented in a way that would be nonsensical until later on. The characters were not puppets at all, since they all willingly decided to go through it after they decided not to and saw the consequences.
The Man in Black wanted to go to the outside world, and if you saw what happened to the Temple, that would be what he would have done to everywhere else. The island was what kept him from getting out.
It's as simple as it gets. For all the obscure variables you can dig up, you sure seem to miss the most basic of plot points.
brandonh83 said:
But what about their daughter?
Drealmcc0y
Banned
I wasnt going to post in this thread, but I couldnt stand by and watch people say that the Cabin is a plot hole. It isnt.
butter_stick
Banned
Explain the cabin in great detail.Drealmcc0y said:
brandonh83
Banned
Willy105 said:
Tough choice but I don't think I could go on with my life with every second of it spent on thinking about my wife drowning in a sinking submarine, alone, as the water level rises
Drealmcc0y
Banned
butter_stick said:
The cabin is just a cabin.
It once belonged to Jacob. What he did in there we dont know for sure, but I would hazard a guess that it was a meeting place for himself and Richard, handing out lists etc.
At some point in time that we never see the ash around the cabin was broken.(maybe this happened before or after our losties arrived to the island, it doesnt matter) So because it was broken Jacob abandoned the cabin as it was now accessible to the man in black and moved to the Statue.
Go to the events of The Man Behind The Curtain where ben takes Locke to see Jacob.
We are told by Ben later that he has never seen Jacob, that he was pretending. He does this because he is jealous of Locke, and wants to make him feel like a fool. So Ben takes Locke to this Jacobless cabin but what he doesnt expect is something far more sinister resides inside. The MiB.
The MiB says "help me". This does 2 things.
1. It makes Locke feel more special than ever because he has heard this "jacob" say help me and not Ben and this is exactly what the MiB needs Locke to be feeling.
2. It makes Ben very jealous of Locke and the anger at Jacob begins building for Ben here, which leads to Ben stabbing Jacob. Which is exactly what MiB wants.
In the season 4 premiere we see the MiB as Christian and Jacobs eye(They actually had a different actor to play the eye scene than in TMBTC, dont ya know!)
When the Cabin moves its the MiBs doing. He is moving the cabin until he is ready to move his plans forward and it wasnt time yet.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Red UFO said:
Damn bro you explained what i said in 1 sentence.
butter_stick
Banned
Why wouldn't Jacob just burn down the cabin when he moved?
Drealmcc0y
Banned
butter_stick said:
He just didnt.
TBH though isnt that just totally Jacob?
He sets up up the candidate stuff and everything else is not his problem.
"Its all meaningless if I have to force them to do anything, why should i step in?"
InaudibleWhispa
Member
Try watching the finale drunk. Christ, I was a mess.gdt5016 said:
Well, you shouldn't agree with them, then.Willy105 said:
Simply saying that is one thing, proving it is another... I'm waiting.
You're making it sound like it all made sense in the end. Could you describe that miraculous ending I haven't been privy to?
That's quite vague. Please elaborate and explain how the characters' motivations made sense.
Please explain why the Man in Black would want to kill everybody off-island (and that's "everybody", or "EE", in Nicolas Cage terms).
And while you're at it, please explain why he attacked the temple in the first place. He wanted to get to the candidates. Fine. But why the massacre? The only "explanation" we got was that he didn't want those guys to kill him so he defended himself. Ridiculous, as he can't be killed anyway (or you'd have to remove the magical plug first).
Was it the island or Jacob?
Jacob said something about the island keeping the evil trapped, and that could be seen as a reference to the Smoke Monster, yes, but the rest of the show tells us that the Man in Black had to kill (indirectly) Jacob and his candidates in order to leave the island.
The Man in Black decided to destroy the island on a whim, after Widmore whispered why Desmond was there in his ear. It wasn't part of his plans before that (heck, he had even ordered Sayid to go and kill Desmond). He just wanted to leave, and he didn't consider the island itself to be an issue, apparently.
Again, you're just not paying attention, that's all...
The writers just forgot about her. Eventually, they realized (or were told) that something was amiss, and...
Oh, it's all good, then!
I'm sure the writers high-fived for a job well done, after they came up with that one...
Dude, your awesome demonstration ("it isn't"? genius!) utterly destroyed my post on the subject.Drealmcc0y said:
I dunno, the statue was working just fine, apparently (despite the lack of magical ash)...Red UFO said:
Not that the Man in Black could directly kill Jacob anyway.
"People"? Just Locke, from what we've seen.
It's not like he could have manipulated the Others, as Richard served as an intermediary...
That moves around, which is arguably unusual for cabins.Drealmcc0y said:
Which was also accessible to the Man in Black. Yeah, that makes sense.
1. That only worked because -for some reason- Jacob let Ben stab him (instead of defending himself like he did when his brother tried the exact same trick using Richard).
2. Yep, he tried that one with Richard before, and it really wasn't that hard. Did he really need to go through all those loops? To have Locke become the new leader of the Others (which wouldn't have happened if Ben hadn't decided to push him on that track in season 4, by the way, but I guess we're not supposed to linger on the characters' unexplained changes of heart) and to impersonate him (which happened because Locke died off-island and was brought back on the Ajira flight, two events the Man in Black had no control over) in order to convince Ben (specifically?) to stick a dagger in Jacob's chest?
But yeah: sound plan.
And why would the Man in Black do that? For fun?
Yet another godlike-yet-utterly-wasted ability to add to the list?
That doesn't explain anything. It would be nice if you realized that.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Im not gonna read what you write Erigu.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Erigu said:
Well "its never been easy"!
I couldnt help but being sucked into your negativity because i still needed my lost fix, but now that im over the show, its easy to just slide onto the next post.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy9JMMTpQzw
I mean look at this scene after the whole show is done, its just amazing to me.
Locke: "Im here...... because i was chosen to be"
MiB: "Thats absolutely right"
Locke: "How do I save the island?"
MiB gives a knowing look to Claire, he doesnt want to save the island, he wants to destroy it.
I mean look at this scene after the whole show is done, its just amazing to me.
Locke: "Im here...... because i was chosen to be"
MiB: "Thats absolutely right"
Locke: "How do I save the island?"
MiB gives a knowing look to Claire, he doesnt want to save the island, he wants to destroy it.
It is quite amazing how you seem convinced it all makes sense when it really doesn't. I guess not bothering to read posts explaining why not helps a lot, but still.Drealmcc0y said:
Is that the part where you go "oh my! Locke now thinks he's the Chosen One, and it was all the Man in Black's doing! brilliant!"? 'Cause you'd be ignoring a good portion of the show, there.
Richard and Ben (eventually... and until the writers changed their mind and made him all jealous again) were also pushing for him to become the new leader. And you could trace the whole thing back to a causality loop, so it wasn't anybody's idea in the first place actually. Yay.
Yeah, it clearly was the "I want to destroy the island" look. Unmistakable.
And again, never mind the fact the guy only decides to do that in the very last episodes of the show, after Widmore whispered in his ear. And let's not wonder why he'd want Locke to turn the wheel (if he really wants to impersonate the guy, sending him off the island doesn't seem like the best idea).
dave is ok
aztek is ok
It's pretty clear that Christian and MIB/Smoke Monster were two separate entities that they decided to fuse together at some point due to poor planning/bad writing.
Oh my god! The smoke alarm! Jack seeing Christian in L.A.!
One season later: Smoke monster can't leave island whoops.
Oh my god! Christian is in the well with Locke! He says to 'Tell his son he said hi!' and tells him to turn the wheel!
One season later: Not related to Jack. Didn't want Locke to leave.
Oh my god! The smoke alarm! Jack seeing Christian in L.A.!
One season later: Smoke monster can't leave island whoops.
Oh my god! Christian is in the well with Locke! He says to 'Tell his son he said hi!' and tells him to turn the wheel!
One season later: Not related to Jack. Didn't want Locke to leave.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
So what you're saying is, because the Christian in season 5 said "say hello to my son" it HAS to be the real Christian and not the MiB?
lul
lul
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Erigu said:
Yes it bluddy well would because he needed Jack to come back and bring the rest of his friends to the island, so he could kill them.
MiB saying that was basically the chain reaction of Jack flying on planes hoping they would crash.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
But MIB showed up in L.A. at Jack's hospital. Why not just tell him in person rather than trusting someone so incompetent (who he also needed on the island) to try and round up the gang.Drealmcc0y said:
He also could have used Ben to do the same task a season earlier when he turned the wheel. Ben wasn't even a candidate and was expendable in that regard.
Stop making excuses for lapses of logic in the show.
.Drealmcc0y
Banned
Solo said:
Its a sign of a matter of opinion.
You know what my love for the show only intensified after season 6 and the show ended.
It was only after that did I think wow thats the greatest journey ive ever been.
Not to mention, how many people say the show sucked after season 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, across the sea, the end.
The show didnt go in the direction you wanted it to go.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
dave is ok said:
It wasnt the MiB in the lobby, even though a smoke alarm going off is resounding proof of a smoke monster in the vicinity.
yes he could have told Ben to do it, but then Locke wouldnt have died would he?
2 birds 1 stone.
Barnaby_Jones
Member
dave is ok said:
I know we can't say for sure whether it was the man in black or not but as we know, Jack was soon on his way to becoming a fiend for meds and in turn, after everything that had happened in his life, the amount of stress he was putting himself under, can't it also be plausible that it simply was the smoke alarm going off and he hallucinated seeing his dad there because of what locke told him on top of everything else?
Between that and your "he says "help me" because that would obviously trigger this whole chain of events!"... Of course, if you can buy nonsense like that and don't stop to think about how absurd and convoluted it is, why would you have a problem with Lost's plot? Or any plot, for that matter?Drealmcc0y said:
And then, there's that thing about that scene taking place in the distant past, even before Christian was born... Hahaha.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Barnaby_Jones said:
Its not genius writing, but I dont see why this cant be the case.
With an open mind and a positive attitude everything can be answered.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Erigu said:
You dont like it? Well I think its awesome!
Are you talking about the scene in the FDW chamber?
Well that scene isnt in the past, it was in the present.
On another note, why am i responding to Erigu? Fffffffffffffff
Drealmcc0y
Banned
bachikarn said:
Yeah its rubbish, they didnt even know about Desmond and Penny until they were writing season 2.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
O thats right I remember now.
The theory is that it was really Jacks dad in the lobby not a halucination.
The most critical thing of why the island exists is because it is the place that allows people to move onto the afterlife.
Thats why Charlie and other dead people were helping them and trying to go back to the island to protect it.
So they could all eventually move on together after they died.
Awesome!
dave is ok
aztek is ok
I love how you congratulate yourself for the mental hurdles you need to do just to keep the idea that LOST makes a lick of sense and the writers weren't incompetent boobs.Drealmcc0y said:
MIB/Christian in L.A. is clearly a plothole - and a big one.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
dave is ok said:
Nope I just explained it.
Kthx
Oh, so it's been "officially" debunked? I didn't know that (do you have a link?).bachikarn said:
'Twas pretty obvious it was just some fanboy theories, but hey...
And Libby, and Juliet.Drealmcc0y said:
Isn't it nice how dead people just appear with no rhyme nor reason?
And wasn't seeing dead people supposed to be Hurley's (naturally unexplained) "thing"? Ah, well.
We've talked about that already, but I don't see any reason to believe that's the case...
And is that where all the protagonists go, when they disappear in the light? Back to previous episodes just to troll their past selves? "You're not supposed to raise him! (hahaha!)"
You know, if Desmond and the candidates had just stayed put off-island, the Man in Black wouldn't have been able to get to them, and the island wouldn't have been in any danger in the first place... Makes all the efforts of Hawking, Widmore and those ghosts seem quite counter-productive. But it helped the writers, and that's all that matters, obviously.
That's one (extremely odd) way to look at it.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Erigu said:
Well they needed to get rid of the threat of the MiB once and for all.
There's some pretty bad writing in the show; along with vague and incomplete
explanations. "Bad" is really the only way to put it at the end of the day, but thankfully the show has many redeeming qualities for me. I think even the biggest LOST fan has to admit to some flaws, and if you don't then I think you're either too easily pleased or delusional.
I'm not going to elaborate on the either the flaws or the redeeming qualities, it's all been said before.
or stupid
I'm not going to elaborate on the either the flaws or the redeeming qualities, it's all been said before.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
I guess he was a threat to the Others... oh wait they had a giant smoke repelling force field. But god knows how many boars the smoke monster has killed over the years. Think of the boars!Erigu said:
Plus, what was the point of the Others anyway? Just send them to the wheel.dave is ok said:
And if Jacob really wants some drama, he can just teleport himself off the island and watch some soap operas. No need to annoy people with his stupid island.
Just make it a rule he can't kill candidates nor boars.
Damn, I missed that one! Let's do something about that:
If he wanted Locke dead, keeping him on the island (where he had some amount of control over the events) would have been a lot more convenient for him.
And that one, too:
The Man in Black says "help me"/"say hello to my son" to Locke, and that naturally triggers this long and convoluted chain of events? Even the (many) parts he has no control over? Really? And that's just the best plan ever anyway, never mind the numerous, far simpler alternatives his vast array of abilities would offer him?
(... well, that's what happened in the end, but Ben turned the wheel wrong or whatever...)Drealmcc0y said:
Who's to say? And why would the Man in Black assume that sending Locke off-island would result in his death? And that Hawking would then ask for his corpse to be put on that Ajira flight? He has no control over all that.
If he wanted Locke dead, keeping him on the island (where he had some amount of control over the events) would have been a lot more convenient for him.
And that one, too:
It's not that I "don't like it", it's that it's completely ridiculous.Drealmcc0y said:
The Man in Black says "help me"/"say hello to my son" to Locke, and that naturally triggers this long and convoluted chain of events? Even the (many) parts he has no control over? Really? And that's just the best plan ever anyway, never mind the numerous, far simpler alternatives his vast array of abilities would offer him?
Nope, the Taweret statue was intact: * *
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Red UFO said:
Since when did Jacob need a safe house from the MIB?
ErasureAcer
Banned
Sorry to have brought up "Who is the man in the Cabin?" yesterday. I guess I should come to my own conclusions rather than asking for an explanation. I guess I can buy into the theory that it's the MIB/Smoke Monster/Christian and that the Christian that Jack in LA and Michael sees on the Freighter are actually the real Christian from the other side. Sloppy writing having 2 different Christians, sure. But it makes the most sense that way as one is only a disguise/ruse to fool Claire/Locke and whomever else he tricked, while the other is who he is(albeit a ghost).
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