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[Exclamation-One]

I <3 erigu's posts. Sure, he's obsessive, but he's always 100% SPOT ON in his criticism.

 

[gdt]

Was gonna play after ELH, but it's motherfucking, for The Motherfucking Last Recruit.

Awww yeah.

The last scene in ELH, where Jack and Locke meet eye to eye (and the bitching take on TNPLH is going on) was so fucking epic.

 

[gdt]

The Last Recruit:

Up next: lots and lots of non-manly tears.

 

[threenote]

Glad you're enjoying your rewatch, gdt. I wish I could do the same--I just don't have the time these days

 

[brandonh83]

but he's always 100% SPOT ON in his criticism.

But only if you agree with him.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

I <3 erigu's posts. Sure, he's obsessive, but he's always 100% SPOT ON in his criticism.

I never knew being just barely above gibberish counted as "criticism". Or maybe that's what you mean by "spot on", it's hard to tell.

 

[master15]

I <3 erigu's posts. Sure, he's obsessive, but he's always 100% SPOT ON in his criticism.

Agreed.

As much as I loved Season 1 of the show and counted myself a fan until really the end of Season 4, the way the series ended and the amount of loose ends, never mind the god awful characterization which occurred left a bitter taste in my mouth.

No matter how awful the last two seasons were, still can't take away from Giacchino's fantastic score or the creation of probably my favourite TV character- Locke.

 

[gdt]

New Jack avatar get.

Hmm, might go back to this:

That's probably my favorite one, but it's only 90x120, I tried to just stretch it, but my skills were weak. Probably wouldn't even look good stretched. I don't even have the original source, a nice GAFfer helped me out and made it for me (from a hulu promo actually). Oh well.


I could roll 90 though, I guess.

 

[Catalix]

omg Jack's back <3

Sorry gdt, I lost the original source image

edit: hell I'll look for it anyway lol

 

[BuggyDClown]

I <3 erigu's posts. Sure, he's obsessive, but he's always 100% SPOT ON in his criticism.

hahahahahahaha.

The only thing more tired out and rehashed than Erigu and his comments are the comments about them.

The shows over if you didn't like it get the fuck over it. Some of us loved it, you wont change our opinions, neither will we change yours.

Deal with it.

 

[gdt]

omg Jack's back <3

Sorry gdt, I lost the original source image

edit: hell I'll look for it anyway lol

Oh, it was you! I was just searching through my pms lol. Doesn't really matter, it's no big deal!

 

[ErasureAcer]

Still on a rewatch myself atm. Upto TTLG Part 2. So it is the Man in Black in the Cabin in the S3 ep The Man Behind The Curtain? Hence the ash around the building.

 

[WillyFive]

I <3 erigu's posts. Sure, he's obsessive, but he's always 100% SPOT ON in his criticism.

What he says is correct.

But what he complains about is either so insignificant to the enjoyment of the show, or something that you won't even notice unless you search every scene for clues.

It's great criticism, but nowhere near enough to make any kind of difference to the quality of the show.

 

[gdt]

Still on a rewatch myself atm. Upto TTLG Part 2. So it is the Man in Black in the Cabin in the S3 ep The Man Behind The Curtain? Hence the ash around the building.

Who knows.

 

[ErasureAcer]

Who knows.

*scratches head*

 

[gdt]

*scratches head*

It's a total plot hole. It's probably supposed to be MIB, but if it is...

then who was smoke?

(If MIB is trapped behind the ash all that time, how did he run around the Island as the smoke monster? Or dress up as Christian? etc etc. Iliana acted all freaked out when she saw he got out the cabin, but it didn't make a difference lol)

 

[ErasureAcer]

It's a total plot hole. It's probably supposed to be MIB, but if it is...

then who was smoke?

(If MIB is trapped behind the ash all that time, how did he run around the Island as the smoke monster? Or dress up as Christian? etc etc. Iliana acted all freaked out when she saw he got out the cabin, but it didn't make a difference lol)

Right...I get your point now. Makes sense that it is a plot hole. =(

 

[Catalix]

Oh, it was you! I was just searching through my pms lol. Doesn't really matter, it's no big deal!

ok, cool. Shame there were no HQ versions out there, it was a pretty badass pic. True Grit right there.

Did find one that's practically the polar opposite of that other image though.
I like battle-hardened Jack more, but gotta admit, dude cleans up nice.

 

[Kai]

Not sure this has been posted - but here is an explanation of the show/ending from a former writer in the show: http://lostendingexplained.com/...

I rewatched the ending after reading...

 

[Iceman]

Not sure this has been posted - but here is an explanation of the show/ending from a former writer in the show: http://lostendingexplained.com/...

I rewatched the ending after reading...

Read. Enjoyed. Love the passion that guys still has for the show. I hope we get more of these insights from people intricately involved in the story weaving.

 

[Erigu]

I never knew being just barely above gibberish counted as "criticism".

umad.gif

But what he complains about is either so insignificant to the enjoyment of the show

Who cares about motivations and stakes?

or something that you won't even notice unless you search every scene for clues.

You're just not paying attention.

It's probably supposed to be MIB

I think it was confirmed in the encyclopedia, but don't quote me on it.
And no, it doesn't make sense. Surprise, surprise.

If MIB is trapped behind the ash all that time, how did he run around the Island as the smoke monster?

According to the encyclopedia, the circle was already broken when we first saw it, actually (just work with them on that one!).
They're trying so hard.

Not sure this has been posted - but here is an explanation of the show/ending from a former writer in the show: http://lostendingexplained.com/...

Well, supposedly, anyway...
Not that it changes anything to the fact it is all very silly:

Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him — even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.
Thus began Jacob’s plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn’t do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn’t take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

What about Jacob trying to prove his point to his brother? Wasn't that what it was all about for the longest time? And weren't the candidates actually candidates to replace Jacob?
Looks like our writer missed a few episodes.

Enter Dharma — which I’m not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB.

Why, of course. It was so obvious.

However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by “corrupting” Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben’s “off-island” activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the “Others” killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that’s what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn’t do for himself.

Ben was doing the work of Jacob. He was getting his orders from Richard, who was getting them from Jacob (whom Richard knew personally).
Where could the Man in Black fit, in that picture?

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB’s corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben.

Oh, so he also corrupted DHARMA? Somehow?
And why bother, if you're just going to send corrupted-Ben to destroy it after that?
This guy's explanations make so much sense.

(and of course, there would be the issue of "who was the leader of the Others at the moment of the Purge: Ben or Widmore?", but the chronology is so messy...)

Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That’s a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself.

Hahaha!

Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn’t allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed.

Not that it answers anything (why did the others pass? what were the criteria, anyway?), but thanks all the same, "writer".

from a more “behind the scenes” note: the reason Ben’s not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn’t believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It’s pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church — but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church … and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder — the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ’s ending. And they kept it.

Well, yeah, they kept the original ending, and that meant they couldn't include new characters, obviously!
... Really, now?

Also: Desmond, Libby, Penny, Juliet.
(Bernard was already mentioned in season 1, so he gets a pass)

Just sounds like an idiotic fanboy to me...

 

[MrPliskin]

Come on guy's, obvious troll is obvious. He's sitting at his desk, downing 2 liters of mountain dew as he furiously hammers away these long and verbose replies, giggling like a school girl watching Jersey Shore. All over a show he seemingly doesn't care about? Come on, it couldn't be more obvious.

I can promise you if everyone in this thread made a "pact" of sorts to simply put him on your ignore list (hell, put that shit in the OT in bold letters!) then the thread tone will change dramatically, for the better. Otherwise, it'll just be circles round and round of this guy telling us how our opinions are all wrong, and he'll continue his efforts to show us the light.

 

[MMaRsu]

Dammmmmmmmnnnnn just watched Sundown.

Awesome episode, the flash sideways was great.



Side note, they really fucked up Sayid in the final stretch :/. I would've much preferred a man who truly lost out to his dark-side. Would've been really tragic.

Or at least build up his last minute heroics better.

They fucked too much with Sayid in the end..

I'm good, I'm bad, I'm good, I'm bad..

Zombie sayid? What the fuuuuck

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Made sense to me. You saw seemingly normal people turn evil and into killing machines without the ability to go back. "The Sickness". Sayid's life was full of killing, but he was able to sacrifice himself despite MIB's temptations.

But it's been a long time since I thought about all of this.. I forget how we're supposed to understand him coming back to life in the first place.

 

[Qwomo]

Not sure this has been posted - but here is an explanation of the show/ending from a former writer in the show: http://lostendingexplained.com/...

I rewatched the ending after reading...

This is great.

I missed so much.

I like LOST now.

 

[Erigu]

Come on guy's, obvious troll is obvious.

Obvious lack of counter-arguments is obvious.

this guy telling us how our opinions are all wrong

It's not just a matter of opinions, dude. Plot holes are plot holes are plot holes.

Made sense to me. You saw seemingly normal people turn evil and into killing machines without the ability to go back. "The Sickness".

Both Sayid and Claire did go back.
And I think the encyclopedia said Claire was never infected, actually. Lulz.

I forget how we're supposed to understand him coming back to life in the first place.

You didn't forget: it was never explained. Sayid said the Man in Black brought him back to life, but we don't know if he just guessed, if that's something the Man in Black told him, if that was true (would add yet another Man in Black ability to the ever-growing list), etc...

 

[StuBurns]

I don't believe the reason Ben isn't in the church is because he wasn't in season 1. I can't remember, but even if no one post-season 1 is in the church, I don't buy that logic as the reason why.

 

[Erigu]

I don't believe the reason Ben isn't in the church is because he wasn't in season 1. I can't remember, but even if no one post-season 1 is in the church, I don't buy that logic as the reason why.

No, it doesn't make any sense. And it's quite hard to believe a professional writer wouldn't realize that.
(also, like I said above, there were post-season 1 characters in the church)

 

[Qwomo]

That's not the reason Ben wasn't in the church. He wasn't originally, and they could have easily slipped him in, but instead they decided to write in something different and more fulfilling for his character. The tidbit about the finale being written along with the pilot was merely an aside, not a justification.

Stop clinging to little things like a rodent.

 

[MMaRsu]

Made sense to me. You saw seemingly normal people turn evil and into killing machines without the ability to go back. "The Sickness". Sayid's life was full of killing, but he was able to sacrifice himself despite MIB's temptations.

But it's been a long time since I thought about all of this.. I forget how we're supposed to understand him coming back to life in the first place.

We weren't supposed to understand, at least they never gave any answers to how he came back. I guess were supposed to believe he came to back sacrifice himself in the sub.

But then it doesn't make any sense at all why Dogen wanted him dead, right? I mean wasn't Dogen working WITH Jacob? Since MIB wiped out everybody at the Temple.

 

[Erigu]

That's not the reason Ben wasn't in the church. He wasn't originally, and they could have easily slipped him in, but instead they decided to write in something different and more fulfilling for his character. The tidbit about the finale being written along with the pilot was merely an aside, not a justification.

Let's read that again together, shall we?

the reason Ben’s not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it.

Merely an aside, huh?

Stop clinging to little things like a rodent.

Heh.

 

[MMaRsu]

How can you say they wrote the ending along with the pilot? They might have, but was it ever proven?

 

[StuBurns]

That's not the reason Ben wasn't in the church. He wasn't originally, and they could have easily slipped him in, but instead they decided to write in something different and more fulfilling for his character. The tidbit about the finale being written along with the pilot was merely an aside, not a justification.

Stop clinging to little things like a rodent.

the reason Ben’s not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it.

Don't call me a rodent because you can't read.

 

[Qwomo]

I wasn't talking to you. Also, what you have quoted there, like I said, isn't a justification. It is an aside. Your claim that I can't read sure is ironic!

Look, I can quote things too! Hurr hurr.

But, from a more “behind the scenes” note:

 

[StuBurns]

I wasn't talking to you. Also, what you have quoted there, like I said, isn't a justification. It is an aside. Your claim that I can't read sure is ironic!

Look, I can quote things too! Hurr hurr.

It is a justification, it says "the reason", that is justifying.

 

[Qwomo]

It is a justification, it says "the reason", that is justifying.

Did you not actually visit the site, or did you just skim it?

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn’t go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can’t move on yet because he hasn’t connected with the people he needs to. It’s going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley’s number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It’s really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

 

[StuBurns]

Did you not actually visit the site, or did you just skim it?

Yes I read it, they gave multiple reasons, and I don't agree with one of them, that's what my post meant you rodent.

 

[Erigu]

Did you not actually visit the site, or did you just skim it?

Point is, the guy says they had to work around getting Ben in that church because they wanted to stick with the original ending that was written back in season 1 and OMG they hadn't thought of Ben back then.
And that's ridiculous on so many levels.

 

[Qwomo]

Yes I read it, they gave multiple reasons, and I don't agree with one of them, that's what my post meant you rodent.

Okay, let me explain this for you, out of the goodness of my heart. There were not "multiple reasons" given for why Ben was not present in the church. Let me give you a fun little breakdown, which I'm surprised a person would need:

1) The ending was written along with the pilot.
2) Hence, the ending did not explicitly include Ben.
3) Ben evolved to become an integral part of the show, and would obviously need to participate in the conclusion.
4) Instead of simply having Ben be present inside the church with the others, they decided to write his character in another direction, having him stay outside because he needed to atone and help others.

The breakdown does not end at 2, which you seem to be imagining.

 

[StuBurns]

Okay, let me explain this for you, out of the goodness of my heart. There were not "multiple reasons" given for why Ben was not present in the church. Let me give you a fun little breakdown, which I'm surprised a person would need:

1) The ending was written along with the pilot.
2) Hence, the ending did not explicitly include Ben.
3) Ben evolved to become an integral part of the show, and would obviously need to participate in the conclusion.
4) Instead of simply having Ben be present inside the church with the others, they decided to write his character in another direction, having him stay outside because he needed to atone and help others.

The breakdown does not end at 2, which you seem to be imagining.

I disagree with you rat friend.

 

[Erigu]

1) The ending was written along with the pilot.

Sure.

2) Hence, the ending did not explicitly include Ben.
3) Ben evolved to become an integral part of the show, and would obviously need to participate in the conclusion.
4) Instead of simply having Ben be present inside the church with the others, they decided to write his character in another direction, having him stay outside because he needed to atone and help others.

And the guy says that was in order to work around a problem. "OMG Ben wasn't in the original ending, so we can't put him in the church OMG!"
It's silly. Of course they could have done that (and there were several post-season 1 characters in the church, in fact). There was no "problem".

 

[C.Dark.DN]

You didn't forget: it was never explained. Sayid said the Man in Black brought him back to life, but we don't know if he just guessed, if that's something the Man in Black told him, if that was true (would add yet another Man in Black ability to the ever-growing list), etc...

I said "how we're supposed to explain" for a reason. This is your biggest problem. You apparently can only interpret the storyline based on direct facts. A main theme in the series is faith VS science. Whether it's convenient for the writers or not, it's awesome to me that some of the answers need personal interpretation and belief that can vary from person to person rather than being explained by spoon fed facts.

Edit: This allows people to still have unique theories at the end of the show while everyone agrees on the core. The was an amazing experience during the show, coming up with theories.

 

[Qwomo]

I disagree with you rat friend.

This is not an opinion. I am explaining what a person said. Not what I think.

 

[Dragon]

Erigu likes pre-Locke death Jack over Locke.

 

[StuBurns]

This is not an opinion. I am explaining what a person said. Not what I think.

No, you are explaining your reading of what a person said.

But that's besides the point, I disagree with both your reading of the text, and the accuracy of the statement made in the text, both in my and your interpretations of it.

 

[Qwomo]

I wonder how people like you happen.

 

[Erigu]

I said "how we're supposed to explain" for a reason.

"Supposed to understand", actually.
And what was it you were "forgetting", then?

This is your biggest problem. You apparently can only interpret the storyline based on direct facts.

Nah, I can extrapolate just fine, don't worry about me.

In fact, that's what I just did in the post you replied to. Missed it?
Sayid said the Man in Black brought him back to life, but we don't know if he just guessed, if that's something the Man in Black told him, if that was true (would add yet another Man in Black ability to the ever-growing list), etc...
I can add some more, if you want? Hey, maybe the water wasn't clear because the Man in Black was extending its ash/Dôgen/whatever-proof tendrils to get to Sayid and resurrect / infect him?!

A main theme in the series is faith VS science.

"Are you going to just base your opinion on the show, or are you willing to blindly believe us when we're telling you it all makes sense?"
So meta.
And of course, the show has faith win in the end. "Faith is awesome, guys!"

Erigu likes pre-Locke death Jack over Locke.

Yeah, that's why I call him stupid.

 

[gdt]

Ok, time for The Candidate. ohfucksomeoneholdme.

 

[WillyFive]

Spoiler

Jin should have left her behind. But I don't blame him. (I blame her)

Who cares about motivations and stakes?

I was complementing you, saying you had a reason for your criticism. Don't ruin it.

The Lost characters all had plenty motivation, and even more stakes.

You're just not paying attention.

Oh OK, that explains it.

 

[Erigu]

I was complementing you, saying you had a reason for your criticism. Don't ruin it.

Ruin what? Either my criticism is valid or it isn't. You seem to think that could change depending on how nice I am with you, but that's not how it works.

The Lost characters all had plenty motivation, and even more stakes.

Nah, the characters quickly turned into mere puppets led by a nonsensical plot, and the stakes remained quite vague throughout (again, what was it about the Man in Black bringing about "the end of everything" or whatever? and the island was important how?).