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I view the mysteries as forces that provide new layers of conflict amongst characters. I was one who viewed moving the island as a great replacement for "jumping the shark"... until I realized that there was no way the writers intended such a scenario to be 100% acceptable. So my theory started to work its way out. It was only a plot point to show confusion, loss, hopelessness, and reason. Two characters in love separated at first by presumed death end up worlds apart and decades out of sync. That's a metaphor manifested to show their.longing for one another. But it doesn't stop there. Some characters need answers as to why science stations existed on the island (which were manifested in the first place by someone needing a scientific explanation as to what the hell is going on) so time altered to provide an answer. All of these inner dilemmas explain the bizarre. But their outer dilemmas, the ones they shared with one another, were the meat of the tale.

It's funny you mention silent hill as that connection from another viewer is what made me start watching the show. I'm sorry you don't see it the way I do.
 
JoJoShabadoo said:
You'd think the writers could have at least made an effort to hide the fact that they didn't know jack shit. Like when Faraday returns towards the end of season 5 (in the middle of the night, since Chang was up reading to his son while his wife was washing the dishes), he says to Jack "My mother was wrong, you shouldn't have come back"

LOST

Then the next scene, it's daylight and Jack says "Wait, Faraday, what do you mean your mother was wrong?" and he says "I can't explain right now, I'll tell you when I get back" right before conveniently dying.

And speaking of Chang, what's up with the intro to season 5? Daniel is sneaking around in the Orchid station Hitman style, in disguise and everything. He bumps into Chang hiding his face while saying "Sorry sir" and yet, 15 episodes later, in the continuation of the scene, after bumping into Chang, he puts the object he hid his face with down and goes up to Chang and says "Excuse me, Mr. Chang?"




Ben's character lost all credibility the moment the writers decided to make him "lose his innocence" by having Sayid shoot him. Masterful character development, right? Sayid shot Ben because he's evil, but Ben is evil because Sayid shot him. Great!

You kind of prove a point of mine. Since the Sayid scenario happened within a time warp (a part of Ben's fringe thread, not his main story arc), this is Ben's mind creating a reason for his ways. Someone from the camp he's been torturing happened to shoot him as a child.
 
MoonsaultSlayer said:
I view the mysteries as forces that provide new layers of conflict amongst characters. I was one who viewed moving the island as a great replacement for "jumping the shark"... until I realized that there was no way the writers intended such a scenario to be 100% acceptable. So my theory started to work its way out. It was only a plot point to show confusion, loss, hopelessness, and reason.

Because confusion, loss, hopelessness and reason can't be portrayed in a way that doesn't involve time traveling? Sun and Jin's separation (and reunions) in past seasons had more impact and they were in the same time period.

But it doesn't stop there. Some characters need answers as to why science stations existed on the island (which were manifested in the first place by someone needing a scientific explanation as to what the hell is going on) so time altered to provide an answer.

What answers were provided, exactly?

I have a question (lol)... Why did the Swan station need a serial number if there are only 8 stations on the island?
 
MoonsaultSlayer said:
Were you expecting flat characters?
I would expect actual characters and character arcs. Not unbelievable stereotypes and walking plot devices.
If you can excuse everything I said about Jack with "character flaws", what couldn't you excuse?

How do I feel about Ben, you ask? Just like every other character, he got from the island everything he needed to get him to the end of his fringe. But we don't necessarily know what that entails. We see him overlapped in Jack's ending left alone outside the church, but it isnt his ending.
So you just assume he somehow got closure?
Again, the show could do no wrong, if you go there. "We weren't privy to it, but there was some powerful character development, there. Surely."


JoJoShabadoo said:
[Lost writers can't do foreshadowing despite totally knowing what's up with all that stuff y'all]
Indeed.
Also, "We have to go back because Jeremy Bentham (why do we all call him that anyway lulz?) told me terrible things were happening to our friends because we left except they eventually showed it had nothing to do with that in the end and it's already fixed anyway so Locke (we can drop the "Bentham", now, right?) didn't really tell me that and I don't know why I'm so desperate to go back maybe I just remembered the ghost of my father was over there and that somehow sent me into a spiral of depression and alcohol and pills and the island is all I have left that makes sense right?"

Ben's character lost all credibility the moment the writers decided to make him "lose his innocence" by having Sayid shoot him. Masterful character development, right? Sayid shot Ben because he's evil, but Ben is evil because Sayid shot him. Great!
It's all about the characters... and the unexplained/nonsensical magical stuff that determines their morality and makes them do all those things.
So deep. So resonant.


MoonsaultSlayer said:
Some characters need answers as to why science stations existed on the island (which were manifested in the first place by someone needing a scientific explanation as to what the hell is going on) so time altered to provide an answer.
Again, I'm not sure there's any plot you couldn't justify, if you're willing to go there... It's a free pass for all the hacks of the world.


JoJoShabadoo said:
I have a question (lol)... Why did the Swan station need a serial number if there are only 8 stations on the island?
Maybe they just have a whole lot of spare hatch doors, and...???
Man, that moment when they punched the numbers... The fact they actually tried to build it up... Hilarious.
 
The first few episodes we find out the island cured cancer and healed a cripples' legs, why is it hard to accept that the island is providing all of these mysteries?

And to Jojo about time traveling and separation of love. Of course there are other ways. But I'm saying that these threads overlap and a common output is provided from the magic box. They all had to believe that they needed to recreate the crash and since they were all there conjuring their thoughts together, the island gave what they needed, felt, expected etc.
 
JoJoShabadoo said:
Because confusion, loss, hopelessness and reason can't be portrayed in a way that doesn't involve time traveling? Sun and Jin's separation (and reunions) in past seasons had more impact and they were in the same time period.



What answers were provided, exactly?

I have a question (lol)... Why did the Swan station need a serial number if there are only 8 stations on the island?

That shit isn't real. The numbers were there to show Hurley what he needed to see.
 
MoonsaultSlayer said:
The first few episodes we find out the island cured cancer and healed a cripples' legs, why is it hard to accept that the island is providing all of these mysteries?
All the DHARMA stuff happened because someone in 2004 crashed on the island and was wondering what the hell was going on? That all just sprouted into existence at that moment? All those people and everything that happened to them? Same thing for Rousseau, I imagine? And Desmond? And Widmore? And Ben? I mean, this is all connected, so...
You don't have any problem with that at all? That's okay for you?

They all had to believe that they needed to recreate the crash and since they were all there conjuring their thoughts together, the island gave what they needed, felt, expected etc.
SUN: I want to be reunited with my husband!
THE ISLAND: Fuck you, bitch. I want moar drama. You stay on that plane.
SUN: :(

What do you enjoy, Erigu? Seriously.
It always amuses me when Lost fans get all concerned about my well-being like that... "Man, if he doesn't like Lost, what could he possibly enjoy in life?"

I enjoy a lot of stuff, don't worry!
(Too much for my bank account, actually...)

Say, yesterday's episode of Mawaru-Penguindrum was nice, and Ikuhara has a nice track record so I think there are reasons to look forward to the rest.
For example.

That shit isn't real. The numbers were there to show Hurley what he needed to see.
Man, I'm about to get all meta on your ass, but... what if all this incredibly far-fetched shifting reality stuff you're seeing in the show isn't real either? What if you're just conjuring it out of thin air?
Did I just divide by zero?
 
Erigu said:
All the DHARMA stuff happened because someone in 2004 crashed on the island and was wondering what the hell was going on? That all just sprouted into existence at that moment? All those people and everything that happened to them? Same thing for Rousseau, I imagine? And Desmond? And Widmore? And Ben? I mean, this is all connected, so...
You don't have any problem with that at all? That's okay for you?


SUN: I want to be reunited with my husband!
THE ISLAND: Fuck you, bitch. I want moar drama. You stay on that plane.
SUN: :(

It always amuses me when Lost fans get all concerned about my well-being like that... "Man, if he doesn't like Lost, what could he possibly enjoy in life?"

I enjoy a lot of stuff, don't worry!
(Too much for my bank account, actually...)

Say, yesterday's episode of Mawaru-Penguindrum was nice, and Ikuhara has a nice track record so I think there are reasons to look forward to the rest.
For example.


Man, I'm about to get all meta on your ass, but... what if all this incredibly far-fetched shifting reality stuff you're seeing in the show isn't real either? What if you're just conjuring it out of thin air?
Did I just divide by zero?
You clearly understand where I'm coming from as you are coming up with theories and twisting my words to fit your comeback just as much as I'm seeing the show in a different light by providing my own theories and making them fit. Fun, right?

It's not the fact that you dislike lost that I asked your preferences... its the way in which you handle your dislike. It seems you hold these things up on a pedestal and if it doesnt live up to some standard of yours well then your going to attack ad naseum until you have the heads of everyone involved hanging from your belt.
Felt too bad.
 
MoonsaultSlayer said:
You clearly understand where I'm coming from as you are coming up with theories and twisting my words to fit your comeback
Did I really twist your words? Where would that be?

just as much as I'm seeing the show in a different light by providing my own theories and making them fit.
Well, you are certainly twisting a lot of stuff so it would fit your theory... I mean, the idea that reality / the past was altered so the hatch would appear like that? That's... reeeeally far-fetched, you have to admit.

It's not the fact that you dislike lost that I asked your preferences...
Oh, sorry if I jumped the gun, then. It's just that the discussion had already gone there before, so I thought...

its the way in which you handle your dislike. It seems you hold these things up on a pedestal and if it doesnt live up to some standard of yours well then your going to attack ad naseum until you have the heads of everyone involved hanging from your belt.
Well, I have standards, yeah? Don't we all?
Lots of stories live up to them, and a bunch of others don't.

Lost really, really doesn't.
It's spectacularly stupid. But oddly successful? The showrunners are particularly unpleasant. But oddly praised?
So, yeah, for this one, I got on my soapbox...
 
Erigu said:
Did I really twist your words? Where would that be?


Well, you are certainly twisting a lot of stuff so it would fit your theory... I mean, the idea that reality / the past was altered so the hatch would appear like that? That's... reeeeally far-fetched, you have to admit.


Oh, sorry if I jumped the gun, then. It's just that the discussion had already gone there before, so I thought...


Well, I have standards, yeah? Don't we all?
Lots of stories live up to them, and a bunch of others don't.

Lost really, really doesn't.
It's spectacularly stupid. But oddly successful? The showrunners are particularly unpleasant. But oddly praised?
So, yeah, for this one, I got on my soapbox...
Groovy. I guess I don't take it as seriously as you do which is odd because I'm the one that enjoys it heh.

But are my theories all that far-fetched or is it because I'm giving the writers too much credit? This is the same show that purposely rearranged background props between scenes not out of incompetence but to show that things arent quite what they seem.
 
MoonsaultSlayer said:
But are my theories all that far-fetched or is it because I'm giving the writers too much credit?
Can't it be both?

This is the same show that purposely rearranged background props between scenes not out of incompetence but to show that things arent quite what they seem.
You make it sound like those are the only two possibilities... What about trying to make it look like something's up just so it would keep people theorizing and talking?
(speaking of dishonesty on the part of the writers: what does that thing with Rebecca Mader inspire you?)

Anyway, I seem to remember some discussions about that, but the specifics escape me at the moment (... a picture on the wall during Miles' first flashback, perhaps?) and I don't believe there was any payoff anyway... Could you remind me what that was about exactly?
 
Erigu said:
Can't it be both?


You make it sound like those are the only two possibilities... What about trying to make it look like something's up just so it would keep people theorizing and talking?
(speaking of dishonesty on the part of the writers: what does that thing with Rebecca Mader inspire you?)

Anyway, I seem to remember some discussions about that, but the specifics escape me at the moment (... a picture on the wall during Miles' first flashback, perhaps?) and I don't believe there was any payoff anyway... Could you remind me what that was about exactly?
I've already subscribed to the island is a deus ex machina and fully accept it because it was spelled out for me since the beginning. In other media, I wouldn't let it slide to have such a crutch of it were introduced later into the series. But here, its on purpose. I can see why people would be upset if they couldn't interpret it.

How would you have handled the show after the initial eposodes? Explain the healings and such.

Does an island, or magic box, that creates and manifests everyone's fears, emotions and thoughts seem out of line with everything the show and the creators have shown us? It's been spelled out numerous times. The show is basically about "why". Thats it. Why did they crash? Why were they together? Why are they who and what they are? And all of these questions are answered for us as the island interprets their reasonings as seen through flashbacks, apparitions, manifested creations etc. Not far-fetched at all. That is the show. As the last season proved, we are seeing into their minds and memories.

Edit: *gasp* a show adding plot to keep people talking? Oh my what a crime. I'd hate it if shows provided interesting twists or dramatic beats or an off the wall scene that would keep me coming back for more... (sarcasm... just in case its not clear).
 
MoonsaultSlayer said:
I've already subscribed to the island is a deus ex machina and fully accept it because it was spelled out for me since the beginning. In other media, I wouldn't let it slide to have such a crutch of it were introduced later into the series. But here, its on purpose. I can see why people would be upset if they couldn't interpret it.
Sorry, but I simply don't buy that the show "spelled out" that all of the mysterious stuff (including things like the hatch) was being conjured into existence by those crash survivors...
And who conjured that Scotsman who pushes a button every 108 minutes in an underground apartment? Charlie? "Heroin's a hell of a drug"?

Back when there was absolutely no mythology whatsoever, just random supernatural stuff, yeah, you could kinda sorta go there, what with Jack seeing his father, or a polar bear appearing both on the island and in one of Walt's comic books... But the show zoomed past that very quickly (there would be Walt's flashback, for one thing: hinting at him being special, even off-island).

How would you have handled the show after the initial eposodes? Explain the healings and such.
Tall order, man. I wouldn't have thrown a whole bunch of supernatural stuff of all sorts willy-nilly at the audience like they did, to begin with...

Does an island, or magic box, that creates and manifests everyone's fears, emotions and thoughts seem out of line with everything the show and the creators have shown us? It's been spelled out numerous times.
The "magic box" thing was brought up and then denied, both on the air and in the real world. In the end, it turned out to be nothing. That's what happens when you write random "intriguing" shit without any care nor foresight...

*gasp* a show adding plot to keep people talking? Oh my what a crime.
When you move props around just so people online will start devising all kind of crazy theories, that's a cheap trick.
(You haven't told me what you were referring to exactly.)

Sorry for insisting, but what about that Rebecca Mader thing? I think it gives us a good insight into the writers' way of handling things, so...
 
Okay. I might get Live together die alone as a tattoo. It's always resonated with me and I just think it would be awesome. Definitely wanna design something around it.
 
What about her? I had too Google the name and saw that you meant charlotte... but i dont know what youre referring to.

Well I was talking about pictures on a wall going up a staircase in the house miles was in which were completely rearranged and altered in another scene. Too drastic to be a mistake.

You acknowledge that show could have been as I theorized except for the flashbacks... so I say this: what if that particular flashback was a coincidence and since his imagination made him feel "special", that that idea is what sparked the strange occurances around him? I'll use his thread to flesh out my view.

"Why did we crash? Why did I survive? Where are we and why are we here?" And because he thinks he's special, "Why am I special?". Now couple his mind's output being interpreted by the magic box with that of the other characters' and their questions, and you get the overlapped mysteries of the show.
 
MoonsaultSlayer said:
The first few episodes we find out the island cured cancer and healed a cripples' legs, why is it hard to accept that the island is providing all of these mysteries?
At the time we didn't know that the answers to those mysteries was 'the island did it', infact we were led to believe that there would be actual logical explanations.

During season one the producers and writers were quite vocal about the fact that they had a plan and stated that all of the strange goings on could be explained using science. They even said that no mystery is introduced into the story unless they already know the answer.
 
JoJoShabadoo said:
Hey all. This is a video I made 2 years ago as a tribute to Libby... I think it's appropriate for this thread.

Hahahaha. Wow you're crazy. I thought Libby's story was simple and obvious. She lost herself when her husband died. more than likely in the accident that put hurley in the hospital. She then eventually coming out of her breakdown let go of her husband and gave Desmond his boat, and eventually found herself on 815.

Regardless that video was asinine and yet hilarious, but by the end somewhat disturbing
 
you fucking freak

The only thing I can make of this thread now is that wierdo like erigu and jojoshabado dont like lost..... and i do.

Btw that above line is inspired by Roger Sterling... if anybody watches Mad Men
 
HenryGale said:
Hahahaha. Wow you're crazy. I thought Libby's story was simple and obvious.

That's the joke.

Regardless that video was asinine and yet hilarious, but by the end somewhat disturbing

Hahaha the last minute is my favorite part, because I just improvised when I realized I didn't have a proper ending.
 
Drealmcc0y said:
you fucking freak

The only thing I can make of this thread now is that wierdo like erigu and jojoshabado dont like lost..... and i do.

Btw that above line is inspired by Roger Sterling... if anybody watches Mad Men

mmm Old Fashion'd has become my favorite drink.

Also dude I thought I was crazy obsessed with the series, you know finishing my 16th re-watch. Those videos are crazy creepy and obsessive in nature. I think that sterling quote is very fitting.

JoJoShabadoo said:
That's the joke.



Hahaha the last minute is my favorite part, because I just improvised when I realized I didn't have a proper ending.

Oh thank goodness. I thought you were serious. I was a little scared for a moment there to be honest.
 
The satire couldn't be more obvious -_-

You should make more videos in that same vein, Jojo. Because reactions like this:
youtube comment said:
you fucking suck... what about now you dumb fuck what about episode 12 of season 6 you dumb shit you know nothing.. if the writers of lost do something, believe me they have a pretty fucking good reason..... asshole

mike2005gye 1 year ago
and the ones in this thread are fucking gold.

And was that Dexter/Lost video made by you too? If so, well done.
 
satriales said:
At the time we didn't know that the answers to those mysteries was 'the island did it', infact we were led to believe that there would be actual logical explanations.

During season one the producers and writers were quite vocal about the fact that they had a plan and stated that all of the strange goings on could be explained using science. They even said that no mystery is introduced into the story unless they already know the answer.
True, but unlike others, I invest my time and effort in theories from what was filmed and shown to me within the show and not promises, outlines, original ideas, lies, false statements and could have beens that the creators have talked about behind the scenes.

When I was in school and the teacher analyzed pieces of literature, we didn't focus on what the author's original ideas were or even if they were aware of the metaphors discussed. Sometimes, those things are open for interpretation, just as art is meant and may not have been conceived by the artist themselves.
 
MoonsaultSlayer said:
What about her? I had too Google the name and saw that you meant charlotte... but i dont know what youre referring to.
LINDELOF: Hi Damon and Carlton! I'm loving season 5. My question is about Charlotte. Now this is a good question, we've been asked a couple of times now so let's get serious and use the podcast to straighten up the record. In "LaFleur", we are lead to believe Faraday sees a young Charlotte in the Dharma barracks in 1974, but this is impossible because Charlotte wasn't born until 1979. And I think they're referring to "Confirmed Dead", Carlton, when Benjamin Linus lists all these things off about Charlotte Staples Lewis including where she was born. He gives her date of birth as 1979, that's what this Laura K. from Lansing is writing. So what's the deal?! Hallucination, weird time travel or did you just screw up, Carlton?
CUSE: Um, no. We didn't really just screw up but what happened basically was the actress, Rebecca Mader, who we cast in this part, was younger than the character we originally we conceived. And she did not want to brand herself as being 37, which I think is what she would have had to been if we had stuck to that original birth date. So--
LINDELOF: Yeah, in the script it said 1970. '70 was the--
CUSE: Or '71, something.
LINDELOF: '70 or '71.
CUSE: And basically she took it upon herself to readjust the birth date on the set.
LINDELOF: Yes, Rebecca Mader. That was her... one of the first scenes she shot, actually.
CUSE: Yeah.
LINDELOF: And she basically said, "I wasn't born in 1970, I was born in 1979".
CUSE: "So I'm gonna make it 1979".
LINDELOF: Yeah, not thinking like we pay any attention to dates on this show. 'Cause we're certainly not going to call down to Hawaii and say "oh, but they're going to be time traveling next year and after your character dies, this is going to be a very important fact". So it got changed and in the editing room, we probably should have said...we should have caught it but we didn't.
CUSE: Yeah, so then we ended up kind of owning that and then we realized, you know, we had to stick to our mythology and that was sort of in the category of tolerable errors. But good for you, you did pick up on that.
LINDELOF: It's a screw up. Charlotte was born in 1970.
Short version: "Come on, you guys! As if all that shit hadn't been planned out back when Charlotte was introduced already! And as if we didn't care about that! You of little faith! No, what happened is that Rebecca Mader acted like a diva, and we merely failed to rectify the mess she made in time."

Thing is... Mader heard about that, and got pissed that the showrunners were blaming her when the 1979 date was actually right there in the script in the first place.

Cue the showrunners' apology:
Where to begin...

For starters, how the hell does one go from that to "Mader acted like a capricious and vain woman on the set, and we don't have a problem with telling the whole story in vivid details on our podcast"? What kind of irresponsible asshole manages to get something that wrong and publicly talk shit about a member of their cast without even bothering to check?

Of course, that's if it was all a mistake/misunderstanding...

For one thing, Rebecca Mader's birthday isn't July 2, 1979 (Charlotte's birthday as stated on the show), but April 24, 1977. So there goes the explanation that they decided to use the actress' birth date for the character.
(and even if they did that out of concern for the actress looking too young, would you fix that by now having the character be two years younger than the actress?)

And of course, how do you reconcile this and that?
1) Their earlier claims that they obviously pay attention to their dates, and would have naturally corrected the inconsistency Mader's capricious interference introduced, had they caught it in time.
2) Their revised version about how they're the ones who decided to change Charlotte's birth date to July 2, 1979, carefully planned timeline be damned. Oh, but when we'll get to the point where the characters go back into the past, Charlotte will be around in 1974 anyway. No problem!
Did their priorities entirely change overnight? From "c'mon, guys, like we'd leave an inconsistency like that be if we had noticed it!" to "actually, we introduced it in the first place, because we figured: why the fuck not? it's no biggie!" How does that happen?

They also added in a later podcast that when they were looking for someone to play Charlotte, they were actually bringing in actresses in their late 30s / early 40s, and Mader was just too young, so they felt like they had to change the character's birth date (again, fuck the carefully planned out timeline, I guess?)...

But wait a minute... Isn't it well documented (the showrunners themselves said as much there, before the whole mess) that Charlotte was originally set to be played by Kristen Bell, before she left for Heroes (a gambit her agent probably dubbed "Operation Charybdis or Scylla")?
Kristen Bell? Late 30s / early 40s? Really?

Ah, well, maybe they just happened to like two actresses who were younger than what they were initially going for, and...
Casting call said:
Oh.

To sum up: they tried to bullshit their way out of a fuck-up by blaming it on one of their actresses while saying "c'mon, as if we could possibly fuck that shit up when we're so careful with our chronology!", and, when they got caught red-handed, came up with more bullshit.
Classy all the way.

Well I was talking about pictures on a wall going up a staircase in the house miles was in which were completely rearranged and altered in another scene. Too drastic to be a mistake.
Okay, so that's what I thought...

And again, it seems you fail to consider a third option:
1) it was a weird mistake,
2) it was done on purpose and part of the Plan,
3) it was just the writers doing some random shit without any kind of plan in mind, merely for the sake of having fans dissect the hell of that online.
Since it would indeed be an odd mistake (1)), and there was no payoff whatsoever (2)), it wouldn't be a good idea to dismiss 3) right off the bat (especially considering the anecdote above doesn't exactly scream "unblemished integrity")...

You acknowledge that show could have been as I theorized except for the flashbacks...
That was but one example...

so I say this: what if that particular flashback was a coincidence and since his imagination made him feel "special", that that idea is what sparked the strange occurances around him?
Why, of course...

Now couple his mind's output being interpreted by the magic box
Look. For the sake of the argument, let's say the entire show was aaaaall "the magic box"'s doing...
What kind of story do you tell in a setting where absolutely nothing is tethered/grounded, where absolutely everything, no matter how intricate or contradictory, could be argued to have been conjured into existence by the unconscious of whoever? Can you have proper character arcs with this shit? Or explore any kind of theme?

You're seeing a nonsensical mess, and simply arguing that it was meant to be that way so that's okay (never mind what that achieves, narratively speaking). There's no story bad enough that you couldn't "justify" it, with that kind of reasoning (actually the king of all cop outs... at least, you're putting that one upfront instead of only playing that card once you're cornered, like a lot of people have done in this topic so far).
 
HenryGale said:
Okay. I might get Live together die alone as a tattoo. It's always resonated with me and I just think it would be awesome. Definitely wanna design something around it.
Definitely a solid choice for a LOST fanatic. I seriously doubt you'll regret it later on.

Can I toss a couple more suggestions into the mix, if you're still considering alternatives? Both Christian-centric, because I thought his speech in The End had some great quote-age:

Remember. Let Go. Move On.
No one does it alone.

Wish I could think of some other potentially resonant quotes from throughout the series, but I'm kind of drawing a blank...
 
If you're a pothead: "I'm the smoke thing."
 
Catalix said:
Definitely a solid choice for a LOST fanatic. I seriously doubt you'll regret it later on.

Can I toss a couple more suggestions into the mix, if you're still considering alternatives? Both Christian-centric, because I thought his speech in The End had some great quote-age:

Remember. Let Go. Move On.
No one does it alone.

Wish I could think of some other potentially resonant quotes from throughout the series, but I'm kind of drawing a blank...

I love what christian says at the end. I think I just need something to go with it, or to design it in such away that it looks awesome.

LOL @ JoJo and catalix. Good stuff.
 
Blader5489 said:
Because he's not wrong. What are they going to say, no they weren't flawed? That they were living the dream before crashing on the island? They weren't happy, they were very troubled, and being brought to the island allowed them to change that.

As for Jacob's methods, he has an optimistic view of humanity. He believes in the best of people, he believes that they're capable of good and self-improvement, and believes that his brother is not beyond saving -- and that exposing him to this more humanistic ideology will get his brother to calm the fuck down.
He needlessly wasted hundreds of innocent human lives in his selfish efforts to conivce his already evil incaranate brother the error of his ways? Dude, you're making him sound even worse.

Honestly though, I'm kinda burnt out on the Jacob topic. He's like this dark cloud hanging over the entire series for me. But I refuse to let him retroactively ruin every other aspect of the show that I very much enjoyed. Thinking about him in any capacity just seems to (justifiably) fuel my nerdrage and cloud my judgement. So I guess Jacob-bashing is going on my personal back-burner... for now. Bitch still gon' pay what he owe.

HenryGale said:
I love what christian says at the end. I think I just need something to go with it, or to design it in such away that it looks awesome.

LOL @ JoJo and catalix. Good stuff.
Any iconic imagery that you're leaning toward?

Hey, you should get the blast door map tatted all over your body Prison Break style! That thing is like your LOST-GAF claim to fame after all :p
 
Catalix said:
He needlessly wasted hundreds of innocent human lives in his selfish efforts to conivce his already evil incaranate brother the error of his ways? Dude, you're making him sound even worse.

Honestly though, I'm kinda burnt out on the Jacob topic. He's like this dark cloud hanging over the entire series for me. But I refuse to let him retroactively ruin every other aspect of the show that I very much enjoyed. Thinking about him in any capacity just seems to (justifiably) fuel my nerdrage and cloud my judgement. So I guess Jacob-bashing is going on my personal back-burner... for now. Bitch still gon' pay what he owe.


Any iconic imagery that you're leaning toward?

Hey, you should get the blast door map tatted all over your body Prison Break style! That thing is like your LOST-GAF claim to fame after all :p

I totally thought about it. Its just huge is all, I tried messing with the image act act when you scale it down it just looks like a bad dharma logo, which will look even worse as a tattoo.

Plus I outdid myself last year when i dropped $$$ at that LOST auction and got my Vanity license place that is LOST. What sucks is I know LOST won't be available in LA when I move soon, so I will have to get something else.
 
Erigu said:
For one thing, Rebecca Mader's birthday isn't July 2, 1979 (Charlotte's birthday as stated on the show), but April 24, 1977. So there goes the explanation that they decided to use the actress' birth date for the character.
(and even if they did that out of concern for the actress looking too young, would you fix that by now having the character be two years younger than the actress?)
"The intel came back"
Websites have listed her birthday as July 2, 1979 since 2007 and some still list it as that. After confusing the internet for 2 years, it's possible the person that gathered the intel, whether it was them or someone else, could have got confused.

Erigu said:
Late 30s / early 40s? Really?

Ah, well, maybe they just happened to like two actresses who were younger than what they were initially going for, and...
Charlotte:
Late 20s. Very attractive in a naturalistic, athletic way, her looks are only one small part of charms. Precocious, loquacious, and funny, Charlotte a very successful academic who also knows how to handle herself in the real world. On a personal level it is hard to crack the hard shell of poise and certainty around her, but when it DOES crack its like an egg; lots of repressed and pent up emotions spill out.
(Starts with Episode #402 - August 29, 2007 in Hawaii).
Oh.
"Full Casting information" You have no proof that they didn't have 30 or 40 year old coming in. I interpret casting info differently from casting call.

Dark UFO:
Episode 4.11 - Casting Call - Susie

Here is a new casting call that we have just been sent by our source.

[SUSIE]
Any ethnicity, 30s to 40s. A nurse working the late shift who unexpectedly has to help deliver a baby. Professional and compassionate, she tries to help the mother adjust to her new Inreality...CO-STAR.

TRUE : Season 6 Early Casting Info
We are hearing a lot of buzz that the Lost producers are trying to ink short term deals with a few of the original castmembers who left the show long ago.

The fact that he makes a point to use different wording, that they have the episode number and film date 13 days away for a recurring arc, tells me he is leaking the person already cast and info on the character.
 
DeathNote said:
"The intel came back"
Websites have listed her birthday as July 2, 1979 since 2007 and some still list it as that. After confusing the internet for 2 years, it's possible the person that gathered the intel, whether it was them or someone else, could have got confused.
And how amusing is it that they would once again get it wrong in their second attempt to set the record straight?
(And they'd get all that shit from the internet, naturally... Where else?)

(I also like how you completely skipped several other arguments, there...)

I interpret casting info differently from casting call.
Of course you would.

The fact that he makes a point to use different wording
No, he doesn't. He uses two (well, more, actually) different wordings, but doesn't "make it a point" that they designate different things altogether. In fact...
You're just making shit it up, here, unsurprisingly.

that they have the episode number and film date, tells me he is leaking the person already cast and info on the character
Let's not ask how that tells you all those things...

Looks like no amount of evidence could ever be good enough for you. It's fanaticism.
 
Erigu said:
Short version: "Come on, you guys! As if all that shit hadn't been planned out back when Charlotte was introduced already! And as if we didn't care about that! You of little faith! No, what happened is that Rebecca Mader acted like a diva, and we merely failed to rectify the mess she made in time."

Thing is... Mader heard about that, and got pissed that the showrunners were blaming her when the 1979 date was actually right there in the script in the first place.

Cue the showrunners' apology:

Where to begin...

For starters, how the hell does one go from that to "Mader acted like a capricious and vain woman on the set, and we don't have a problem with telling the whole story in vivid details on our podcast"? What kind of irresponsible asshole manages to get something that wrong and publicly talk shit about a member of their cast without even bothering to check?

Of course, that's if it was all a mistake/misunderstanding...

For one thing, Rebecca Mader's birthday isn't July 2, 1979 (Charlotte's birthday as stated on the show), but April 24, 1977. So there goes the explanation that they decided to use the actress' birth date for the character.
(and even if they did that out of concern for the actress looking too young, would you fix that by now having the character be two years younger than the actress?)

And of course, how do you reconcile this and that?
1) Their earlier claims that they obviously pay attention to their dates, and would have naturally corrected the inconsistency Mader's capricious interference introduced, had they caught it in time.
2) Their revised version about how they're the ones who decided to change Charlotte's birth date to July 2, 1979, carefully planned timeline be damned. Oh, but when we'll get to the point where the characters go back into the past, Charlotte will be around in 1974 anyway. No problem!
Did their priorities entirely change overnight? From "c'mon, guys, like we'd leave an inconsistency like that be if we had noticed it!" to "actually, we introduced it in the first place, because we figured: why the fuck not? it's no biggie!" How does that happen?

They also added in a later podcast that when they were looking for someone to play Charlotte, they were actually bringing in actresses in their late 30s / early 40s, and Mader was just too young, so they felt like they had to change the character's birth date (again, fuck the carefully planned out timeline, I guess?)...

But wait a minute... Isn't it well documented (the showrunners themselves said as much there, before the whole mess) that Charlotte was originally set to be played by Kristen Bell, before she left for Heroes (a gambit her agent probably dubbed "Operation Charybdis or Scylla")?
Kristen Bell? Late 30s / early 40s? Really?

Ah, well, maybe they just happened to like two actresses who were younger than what they were initially going for, and...

Oh.

To sum up: they tried to bullshit their way out of a fuck-up by blaming it on one of their actresses while saying "c'mon, as if we could possibly fuck that shit up when we're so careful with our chronology!", and, when they got caught red-handed, came up with more bullshit.
Classy all the way.


Okay, so that's what I thought...

And again, it seems you fail to consider a third option:
1) it was a weird mistake,
2) it was done on purpose and part of the Plan,
3) it was just the writers doing some random shit without any kind of plan in mind, merely for the sake of having fans dissect the hell of that online.
Since it would indeed be an odd mistake (1)), and there was no payoff whatsoever (2)), it wouldn't be a good idea to dismiss 3) right off the bat (especially considering the anecdote above doesn't exactly scream "unblemished integrity")...


That was but one example...


Why, of course...


Look. For the sake of the argument, let's say the entire show was aaaaall "the magic box"'s doing...
What kind of story do you tell in a setting where absolutely nothing is tethered/grounded, where absolutely everything, no matter how intricate or contradictory, could be argued to have been conjured into existence by the unconscious of whoever? Can you have proper character arcs with this shit? Or explore any kind of theme?

You're seeing a nonsensical mess, and simply arguing that it was meant to be that way so that's okay (never mind what that achieves, narratively speaking). There's no story bad enough that you couldn't "justify" it, with that kind of reasoning (actually the king of all cop outs... at least, you're putting that one upfront instead of only playing that card once you're cornered, like a lot of people have done in this topic so far).
Your mind is made up and so is mine. This is how I interpret the show and it works for me and I can move on to other things in life. And I like it enough that I click on this thread when I see it bumped and notice comments from you shitting up the thread.

Someone can tell me that a song I like is about a random encounter made up in 20 minutes by the artist about talking dogs and peanut butter shampoo... but if what I hear, feel and see when I listen to it connects with me somehow, then that real meaning means nothing to me.
 
MoonsaultSlayer said:
Your mind is made up and so is mine. This is how I interpret the show and it works for me and I can move on to other things in life. And I like it enough that I click on this thread when I see it bumped and notice comments from you shitting up the thread.
I love you too.
 
Erigu said:
I love you too.
*smooch*

Ha I just realized you assumed I meant that its your comments that attracted me to the thread (well it was once I started posting). But no, I meant after clicking to see what's the latest with lost, I end up seeing your posts.
 
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