Support NeoGAF

[dave is ok]

Careful, dave might call you a mean name.

You see the joke was that you couldn't see what he wrote because you have him on ignore - yet you were being really annoying by asking what he wrote. So I lied and said he insulted you.

God. Lost fans, They can't follow anything

 

[oatmeal]

:lol

K, I'm glad you're not just being a prick. Because I like like you.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

So you disagree that Widmore and MIB both wanted Desmond to do the exact same thing?

Widmore was using Desmond for protection against the MIB. he would be the "key" that would pop the cork that would take away the MIBs abilities. and put the cork back.

 

[Erigu]

Widmore was using Desmond for protection against the MIB

How does that work, exactly?

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

How does that work, exactly?

I edited to further clarify.

 

[Erigu]

OK, thanks. But I thought it was pretty clear we were all aware of that. ^^;
Again:
Jacob is the one who told Widmore to bring Desmond. It's his plan. So why didn't he tell Jack and the others, around that campfire, when they were wondering how they could kill the MiB?

 

[VistraNorrez]

Going through the complete series set after taking a break when completing season one. I haven't explored any of the home video extras before this set, so I still have so much Lost to see. It'll take me quite a while to get through everything at this pace. Feels good, man.

 

[oatmeal]

I'm waiting for Christmas to get the full set.

It sucks

 

[Drealmcc0y]

I just watched The End properly by myself for the first time since May, and it is far and away the greatest episode of lost.

It blows my mind, how fans of the show could dislike it. Its just amazing.

 

[MrPliskin]

I just watched The End properly by myself for the first time since May, and it is far and away the greatest episode of lost.

It blows my mind, how fans of the show could dislike it. Its just amazing.

I didn't dislike it, only the last few moments of it.

The New Man in Charge safes the series for me though. I just ignore a few key words and phrases from the closing scene of "The End" and all is well!

 

[Drealmcc0y]

I didn't dislike it, only the last few moments of it.

The New Man in Charge safes the series for me though. I just ignore a few key words and phrases from the closing scene of "The End" and all is well!

what key words?

 

[brandonh83]

I really love how the entire show ended up being about everyone "finding" each other and I like how the seeds were being planted as far back as season 2-- when Desmond turned the failsafe key and was hit with a massive force of the energy being contained beneath the The Swan, giving him special, early access to the island's power. Or what I believe to be the island/light's power.

It makes me wonder, and this is one reason I'm making this post for someone to shoot down so I stop thinking about it-- all those times in earlier seasons when Desmond is flashing, is he flashing to the flash-sideways reality? I can't think of anything to shoot that down, but it's been a while so I may be missing some obvious information in that regard.

Still, I really love how the idea of constants were not only centric to Desmond and Penny, but for everyone. Desmond and Penny's story is there to provide the logic for how it operates. It's what makes me think that Desmond has been flashing to the afterlife even in the earlier seasons.

 

[MrPliskin]

what key words?

Anything about heaven or moving on. I felt it was a big cop out, so to speak. I like to imagine it my way, that the H-Bomb created to parallel realities and Desmond connected the two through consciousness, but never "physically" connected. Basically, the two realities remain independent of one another. One being a big happy ending, the other being full of death and misery with Hugo taking over.

New Man in Charge supports my obscure fantasy :lol

 

[Drealmcc0y]

I really love how the entire show ended up being about everyone "finding" each other and I like how the seeds were being planted as far back as season 2-- when Desmond turned the failsafe key and was hit with a massive force of the energy being contained beneath the The Swan, giving him special, early access to the island's power. Or what I believe to be the island/light's power.

It makes me wonder, and this is one reason I'm making this post for someone to shoot down so I stop thinking about it-- all those times in earlier seasons when Desmond is flashing, is he flashing to the flash-sideways reality? I can't think of anything to shoot that down, but it's been a while so I may be missing some obvious information in that regard.

Still, I really love how the idea of constants were not only centric to Desmond and Penny, but for everyone. Desmond and Penny's story is there to provide the logic for how it operates. It's what makes me think that Desmond has been flashing to the afterlife even in the earlier seasons.

Im fairly certain its just desmond TT. I was actually listening to some of the "best of lost podcasts" and damon says he is TT.

Also I love "All we need to survive is one person who truly loves us and you have her. I will wait for you always. I love you. Penny"

Thats powerful in hindsight.

 

[brandonh83]

Im fairly certain its just desmond TT. I was actually listening to some of the "best of lost podcasts" and damon says he is TT.

Probably. Not to stir the pot further, but it is possible that he just didn't want to say at the time what it really is-- but in a way, it is time travel. :lol

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Anything about heaven or moving on. I felt it was a big cop out, so to speak. I like to imagine it my way, that the H-Bomb created to parallel realities and Desmond connected the two through consciousness, but never "physically" connected. Basically, the two realities remain independent of one another. One being a big happy ending, the other being full of death and misery with Hugo taking over.

Religion and Heaven have nothing to do with the ending, imo.

Whats important is that these people are in this place after they all died, to remember, to let go and to find each other to move on to whatever is next.

Thats what you should take away from the scene.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Probably. Not to stir the pot further, but it is possible that he just didn't want to say at the time what it really is-- but in a way, it is time travel. :lol

I doubt it, I remember Damon saying they came up for the idea of the FSW between S3 and S4

 

[brandonh83]

Yeah I don't think they were necessarily moving on to Heaven and the writers have stressed that the show actually incorporates many ideas from many different religious points of view in an effort to not have a religious bias.

I doubt it, I remember Damon saying they came up for the idea of the FSW between S3 and S4

Well, that's what I'm talking about, in season 4 you get Desmond flashing to different points. As far as I'm concerned, I mean, they had us completely fooled until the finale about the FSW; we all thought it was real.

Again, you're probably right, I just think the possibility does exist. Perhaps he didn't travel to the FSW on every occasion, but some?

 

[Drealmcc0y]

I remember after S3 ended, many people were speculating that the flashfoward scene(WE HAVE TO GO BACK) between Jack and Kate was an alternate reality, thats why they didnt like each other.

Damon then came out and said, its definetly not an AR, because it would lower the stakes of the show and we would never do one.

Its funny, i remember watching S6 thinking, "did they change their mind or something, what gives?"

But they held true to it

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Yeah I don't think they were necessarily moving on to Heaven and the writers have stressed that the show actually incorporates many ideas from many different religious points of view in an effort to not have a religious bias.



Well, that's what I'm talking about, in season 4 you get Desmond flashing to different points. As far as I'm concerned, I mean, they had us completely fooled until the finale about the FSW; we all thought it was real.

Again, you're probably right, I just think the possibility does exist. Perhaps he didn't travel to the FSW on every occasion, but some?

I thought you meant in S3 "FBYE".

If that was the FSW in the constant, why didnt Penny recognise Desmond in happily ever after?

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

The whole point of the final scene was to not define it. There is no mention of heaven, and it is totally up to the viewer to form his or her own conclusions. I'm an atheist and I have no problem with it whatsoever. I thought it was beautiful.

 

[brandonh83]

Well that's different, that was an actual look into the real future, I'm merely talking about Desmond's flashes, particularly. Not the flashforwarding, but Desmond's experiences because Desmond got the exposure from the blast.

But yeah, I mean, in the FSW Desmond and Penny didn't even know each other until Happily Ever After but they did in The Constant. I stand corrected.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

The whole point of the final scene was to not define it. There is not mention of heaven, and it is totally up to the viewer to form his or her own conclusions. I'm an atheist and I have no problem with it whatsoever. I thought it was beautiful.

Absolutely, it makes me think, how can anyone watch that, truly understand whats happening and dislike it?

We should all be so lucky to have such closure in our lives.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Well that's different, that was an actual look into the real future, I'm merely talking about Desmond's flashes, particularly. Not the flashforwarding, but Desmond's experiences because Desmond got the exposure from the blast.

Im not sure I know what you mean.

Are you talking about Desmonds flashes of Charlie dying?

 

[brandonh83]

Im not sure I know what you mean.

Are you talking about Desmonds flashes of Charlie dying?

Mainly when Desmond leaps ahead in episodes like The Constant. For a fleeting minute I thought maybe he could have been flashing to the FSW afterlife reality but there's too much against it in hindsight.

 

[TheExodu5]

Religion and Heaven have nothing to do with the ending, imo.

Whats important is that these people are in this place after they all died, to remember, to let go and to find each other to move on to whatever is next.

Thats what you should take away from the scene.

And this message has absolutely nothing to do with this show specifically and could be applied to any set of characters in any universe. That is a cop out.

 

[brandonh83]

And this message has absolutely nothing to do with this show specifically and could be applied to any set of characters in any universe. That is a cop out.

And what other shows uses this as the overall theme of the story in the same way that Lost does?

 

[hamchan]

And what other shows uses this as the overall theme of the story in the same way that Lost does?

I was thinking Battlestar Galactica would work. Might make a better ending than the one we actually got!

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

And this message has absolutely nothing to do with this show specifically and could be applied to any set of characters in any universe. That is a cop out.

Except the show has always had a running theme of community and the importance of cooperating and being with others and blah blah blah it's a cop out amirite.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

And this message has absolutely nothing to do with this show specifically and could be applied to any set of characters in any universe. That is a cop out.

the words let go have been used like 50 times in the show.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

And this message has absolutely nothing to do with this show specifically and could be applied to any set of characters in any universe. That is a cop out.

Not really, it doesn't define the show as a whole, it's more of an epilogue. The show as we were watching it for 6 years ended with Jack dying having defeated the smoke monster, Hurley in charge of the island and the remaining survivors leaving. But that is a pretty depressing ending, and it doesn't give the kind of closure that the characters deserved. You could remove the flash sideways 'epilogue' altogether and it wouldn't really effect the main story, so what exactly is the cop out? Just the fact that such closure exists?

 

[hamchan]

I personally felt like they could have given us less flash sideways content and more on island stuff.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

List from lostpedia

Time to let go, Freckles." - Sawyer to Kate ("Confidence Man")
"Let go. I know you want to." - Sawyer to Jack ("Confidence Man")
"It's time for you to let go of some things." - Locke to Boone ("Hearts and Minds")
"Time to let go." - Locke to Boone ("Hearts and Minds")
"The problem is you're just not good at letting go." - Christian Shephard to Jack ("Do No Harm")
"I'm not good at letting go." - Jack to Sarah ("Do No Harm")
"Let me go, Jack." - Boone to Jack ("Do No Harm")
"Let me go. Just let me go." - Locke to Jack ("Exodus, Part 3")
"Then let him go, because it's not about you or me, it's about him. I don't want to go to court Michael, so please, just let him go." - Susan to Michael ("Adrift")
"We were there to get past him, to get on with our lives, to let him go." - Helen to Jimmy Bane ("Lockdown")
"I'm never going to let go, brother." - Desmond to Kelvin ("Live Together, Die Alone, Part 2")
"Let it go." - Christian Shephard to Jack ("A Tale of Two Cities")
"Just let it go." - Kate to Jack ("Something Nice Back Home")
"No, you don't let go!" - Sawyer to Juliet ("The Incident, Part 2")
"You can let go now. It's okay. You--you can let go." - Alt Rose to Alt Jack ("LA X, Part 1")
"Maybe I'm supposed to let go." - Jack to Hurley ("Everybody Loves Hugo")
"What makes you think letting go is so easy?" - Locke to Jack ("The Candidate")
"You can let it go" - Jack to Locke ("The Candidate")
"I'm not here to hurt him, I'm here to help him let go." - Desmond to Ben about Locke ("What They Died For")
"To remember, and to let go" - Christian Shephard to Jack ("The End")

Watch Do No Harm from season 1.

Its amazing on rewatch

Christian: "Commitment is what makes you tick Jack, the problem is, you're just not good at letting go."

Thats whole scene aswell plays very similar to the finale scene between Jack and his dad.

 

[MrPliskin]

Not really, it doesn't define the show as a whole, it's more of an epilogue. The show as we were watching it for 6 years ended with Jack dying having defeated the smoke monster, Hurley in charge of the island and the remaining survivors leaving. But that is a pretty depressing ending, and it doesn't give the kind of closure that the characters deserved. You could remove the flash sideways 'epilogue' altogether and it wouldn't really effect the main story, so what exactly is the cop out? Just the fact that such closure exists?

I think the proper way to handle it would have been to put the "new man in charge" with "The End".

A lot of people felt "robbed" because it ends with "move on" like the Island never happened. I think the New Man in Charge shows that both realities continue on, so both sets of people get what they want. The dark "reality" and the light hearted "happy ending".

 

[brandonh83]

A lot of people felt "robbed" because it ends with "move on" like the Island never happened.

A lot of people are dumb.

 

[MrPliskin]

A lot of people are dumb.

Nice grand, sweeping statement. Really proves a point.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

I think the proper way to handle it would have been to put the "new man in charge" with "The End".

lol that would be the worst idea ever.

I mean I cant express how terrible i think that would be if they stuck that on the end.

 

[hamchan]

I think you all need to let go.

 

[Naked Snake]

No matter how much I think about it I can't rank the seasons according to my personal preference, but I can probably say that the last season is my least favorite.

 

[WillyFive]

Nice grand, sweeping statement. Really proves a point.

But the Island did happen....

 

[Drealmcc0y]

But the Island did happen....

Yeah but smoke monsters and moving islands dont exist in real life, so how can it...

 

[hamchan]

Everyone you love is dead. They've moved on. They're never coming back. Maybe they'll come back in some buddy cop show but it won't be the same, IT'LL NEVER BE THE SAME. Time for everyone to let go.

 

[brandonh83]

Nice grand, sweeping statement. Really proves a point.

The ending made it clear that the island events did happen. My statement still stands.

I just wonder what it was about the ending that made people question whether or not the island events occurred. Hell, I personally believe that the afterlife reality is actually connected to the island itself.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

A lot of people felt "robbed" because it ends with "move on" like the Island never happened.

That isn't what anyone should be taking away from The End, and if they are then their feeling of being "robbed" is simply due to a lack of understanding. If anything, The End cements how IMPORTANT their time on the island was. They're there because their time on the island was the most important of their lives, and without that connection they wouldn't be in the church able to move on. Reality still exists, and now we know that they didn't go through it all for nothing.

Having the happier ending after death doesn't undo the death, the journey that they took to get there, and the relationships formed. Again, it's more like an epilogue that doesn't effect anything that came before it, and it certainly doesn't devalue island events. Had the sideways not existed and the show ended with Jack closing his eye, the audience could still make up their mind about them reaching an afterlife, only having to imagine it truly robs the audience of the things they had patiently waited for -- Jack and Locke reconciling, Jack and Kate being together etc. Those are things we deserved to see, and if anyone thinks it's a cop-out because it means ending on a happy note, then so be it.

 

[StuBurns]

The end did cheapen the lives of everyone who lived past Jack though.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

The ending made it clear that the island events did happen. My statement still stands.

I just wonder what it was about the ending that made people question whether or not the island events occurred. Hell, I personally believe that the afterlife reality is actually connected to the island itself.

Yeah the source is definitely the light at the church.

What i think is really interesting is, when the show first started i think the island was purgatory, but tons of people guessed it so they changed it.

What i think they did was instead of the island being the place between heaven and hell, I think the island is the place that holds heaven and hell.

Its hard to describe.... but does anyone understand what im getting at?

 

[WillyFive]

The end did cheapen the lives of everyone who lived past Jack though.

Isn't it the other way around?

 

[brandonh83]

Yeah the source is definitely the light at the church.

Absolutely.

Desmond gets heavy exposure to the energy being grounded by The Swan. What happens after this? Desmond can mentally "flash" to the future. Seasons 3 and 4 heavily demonstrate this. In season 6, Desmond can now flash back and forth between island reality and the flash-sideways verse, which is the afterlife.

If Desmond hadn't been exposed to the energy when he turned the failsafe key, he would not have developed this unique ability. Therefore, the island's power and the afterlife must be interconnected, as the island's power granted Desmond the ability to visit the afterlife verse.

The relationship between Desmond and Penny is ingenious, then, as it demonstrates the idea of a constant, or someone deeply connected to you that can ground you between the two realities. This person, or object (like Christian's casket) must exist in both frames to act as a conduit so that your mental state, or soul even, can exist in both realities. All the characters needed a constant so that they could find one another in the afterlife.

The island is just an island. What makes the island special is the light, and the light is neatly explained through Desmond's character developments. It is the island's power that gives Desmond the ability to transpose to the afterlife reality, thus, to me it means that the light source on the island is what gives every living being the means to move on to this afterlife state-- not just the characters on the island, but everyone. That's what Mother meant when she said that if the light goes out on the island, it goes out everywhere.

That's why it needs to be protected from something or someone like The Man in Black. Without the island's light, everyone that dies would be forever trapped in a limbo state, like the whisperers on the island. All of this information exists within the show and while everyone can come to their own conclusions, this is mine. Still, many act as though you didn't get any answers about what the island is or what the light is, but I beg to differ.

 

[StuBurns]

Isn't it the other way around?

Not that I can see, take Kate for example, she's meant to be maybe thirty when the show ended? So she might have lived another forty or so years? and yet after that time, in purgatory she is waiting hand in hand with Jack. She might have been remarried, had children etc, none of that is reflected, that is the same for everyone in that church. Hurley could have lived for thousands of years after Jack's death.

 

[gdt]

Not that I can see, take Kate for example, she's meant to be maybe thirty when the show ended? So she might have lived another forty or so years? and yet after that time, in purgatory she is waiting hand in hand with Jack. She might have been remarried, had children etc, none of that is reflected, that is the same for everyone in that church. Hurley could have lived for thousands of years after Jack's death.

True, but you can take that to mean she lived the rest of her life missing Jack and depressed over his death.

We don't really know, so it's kinda pointless to discuss their lives afterward.

Spoiler

Hurley built a huge statue of Jack on the Island, and all of our Losties came to live in it. Like a resort.

Or a foot.