Support NeoGAF

[Solo]

AtS is one of my favourite episodes of the show.

It might be the worst episode of the show, real talk.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

It might be the worst episode of the show, real talk.

please, you havent watched lost properly in ages.

 

[brandonh83]

Janney was bad, but Pellegrino and Welliver were most certainly not and IMO they carried the episode. Darlton might like to think that Janney shined brightly and that the episode belonged to her, but I felt the other big players were better and more integral.

And not every scene she was in was bad. Like when they're down in the well.

 

[oatmeal]

I thought it was horrific. Even Allison Janney was bad in it, she's probably the best female tv drama actress in the industry.

She must not be considering how horrid her performance was.

She wasn't just bad, she singlehandedly made the episode bad.

That being said, I don't hate that episode, but the problem with Darlton is that they never embraced the mythology. That was the episode to just go all out with it, it just felt so reserved. I like the story of Jacob/MIB, but they still tip toed around a lot of stuff in that episode.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

I thought she was good.

She was different, she was supposed to be playing weird and crazy , she was exactly like Darlton envisioned i presume.

 

[StuBurns]

She must not be considering how horrid her performance was.

She wasn't just bad, she singlehandedly made the episode bad.

That being said, I don't hate that episode, but the problem with Darlton is that they never embraced the mythology. That was the episode to just go all out with it, it just felt so reserved. I like the story of Jacob/MIB, but they still tip toed around a lot of stuff in that episode.

She is an exceptional actress. I find it hard to believe the fault lies with her.

 

[RichardAM]

Season 6 hasn't held up well.

I bought the DVD boxset weeks ago and LA X remains a great two-parter, but since then i've fallen into a slump and really don't want to watch the episodes. Knowing the true-meaning and reveal of the flash-sideways really sours a lot of the season imo.

They're harder to invest in more now than what they were when I went in blind.

 

[big ander]

For me, the main thing with AtS was that we were promised a really deep look at the mythology, and I thought that would mean very specific things. But the episode was ambiguous and just made a bigger mystery.

 

[Solo]

please, you havent watched lost properly in ages.

Rewatching S1-S5 from July 2009 - December 2009, and S6 as it aired is ages?

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Im glad they concentrated more on Jacob and MiB, what makes them who they are and why they do the things they do, instead of straightfoward answers.

Because for someone like me who has pretty much figured the show out but still loves to rewatch, character stuff is far more satisfying.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Rewatching S1-S5 from July 2009 - December 2009, and S6 as it aired is ages?

Yeah man, if i recall, you placed recon, wkd and tp lower than AtS.

You're just falling into the hate train, because you havent watched in a while.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Season 6 hasn't held up well.

I bought the DVD boxset weeks ago and LA X remains a great two-parter, but since then i've fallen into a slump and really don't want to watch the episodes. Knowing the true-meaning and reveal of the flash-sideways really sours a lot of the season imo.

They're harder to invest in more now than what they were when I went in blind.

complete opposite for me.

flashsideways was the ultimate twist of the show for me.

FSW = S1 flashbacks > every other flashes

 

[Washed_Out]

Finished my first run through of Lost. Show was an incredible ride. Going to rank this second as my favorite show, right behind The Wire.

Didn't end the show feeling pissed off or anything. Enjoyed the ending. Some shit was a little sketchy, but I can leave it be.

 

[EliCash]

It might be the worst episode of the show, real talk.

Real talk indeed.

Could have been so much more, AtS.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Finished my first run through of Lost. Show was an incredible ride. Going to rank this second as my favorite show, right behind The Wire.

Didn't end the show feeling pissed off or anything. Enjoyed the ending. Some shit was a little sketchy, but I can leave it be.

Ahhh new blood, talk about your experience bro, were all looking for something new to talk about here im sure.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Real talk indeed.

Could have been so much more, AtS.

Thats the problem with AtS.

The hype.

The episode is way different than anyone could have imagined.

 

[brandonh83]

yeah I'm with coy up there, season 6 was definitely the deepest, most mentally-stimulating season for me, it basically took every character, what makes them tick, what their strengths and weaknesses are, and snowballed everything together in an amazing way. everything that happened in the flashverse was like this awesome fantasy land where everything was seemingly great for them except for the simple fact that they were all stuck until absolutely all of them were ready to move on.

awesome stuff from the writers and I felt that the last season was a complete culmination for what the whole shebang was about, both thematically and emotionally.

 

[RichardAM]

flashsideways was the ultimate twist of the show for me.

They were a twist, but come the reveal at the end they were more just a kick in the balls.

Part of why I enjoyed them so much was that exploration of how things could be different, in an alternative universe. That Locke could be happy, Miles having a relationship with his father, Ben having a moral conscious etc etc. The end reveal is basically "ah sorry guys, none of this is actually real, nor could it ever be real". That end, nullifies all the events of those flash-sideways I feel.

I do like the flashes, I love them- I just think they're so much harder to invest in a second time knowing they're not actually real.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

yeah I'm with coy up there, season 6 was definitely the deepest, most mentally-stimulating season for me, it basically took every character, what makes them tick, what their strengths and weaknesses are, and snowballed everything together in an amazing way. everything that happened in the flashverse was like this awesome fantasy land where everything was seemingly great for them except for the simple fact that they were all stuck until absolutely all of them were ready to move on.

awesome stuff from the writers and I felt that the last season was a complete culmination for what the whole shebang was about, both thematically and emotionally.

Yeah every episode of season 6 through 1-12 defined that particular character in both the FSW and the island(especially the FSW) and from the The Last Recruit onwards, its just the mad, crazy dash to the end of the show.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

The end reveal is basically "ah sorry guys, none of this is actually real, nor could it ever be real". That end, nullifies all the events of those flash-sideways I feel.

Dude. No.

Not real? Its very real to the characters.

 

[EliCash]

Thats the problem with AtS.

The hype.

The episode is way different than anyone could have imagined.

Yeah, this is probably true.

I still like it.

 

[brandonh83]

I do like the flashes, I love them- I just think they're so much harder to invest in a second time knowing they're not actually real.

It's meant to be this odd almost David Lynch-ian look into each character-- their desires, needs, and what motivates them. It's not "real" in the way that the flashbacks from earlier seasons were, but it still actually happens to them. The characters do literally experience this, as Christian told Jack "yeah I'm real, you're real, everything that has ever happened to you is real."

So no, it's not fake, it's just extremely surreal.

 

[RichardAM]

Not real? Its very real to the characters.

Are we going to have a Man of Science/Man of Faith-based argument here?

I'm scared we are. :lol

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Yeah, this is probably true.

I still like it.

I wasnt sure how I felt when I first watched it, infact I dont think I liked it.

It was very overwhelming.

 

[brandonh83]

I didn't like ATS at first but at the time I didn't realize how much info I actually got out of it. When I rewatched it and then watched it again with the commentary it really hit me on how important it is.

 

[EliCash]

I wasnt sure how I felt when I first watched it, infact I dont think I liked it.

It was very overwhelming.

Yeah, it does get better on a second/third viewing. Like most of season 6 imo.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

I didn't like ATS at first but at the time I didn't realize how much info I actually got out of it. When I rewatched it and then watched it again with the commentary it really hit me on how important it is.

Theres so much in this episode, 10X times more information than any other episode its so hard to take much of it in the first time.

Then add the fact that theres a magical cave light, its understandable why people reacted the way they did.

 

[Calcaneus]

Across the Sea is pretty much the worst episode of the series for me. All those other episodes we love to hate are just episodes, I don't exactly have to factor in Jacks tatoo episode when discussing the overall plot or mythology of the show. But AtS deals with a lot of important shit, and doesn't do it especially well IMO.

 

[StuBurns]

Across the Sea is pretty much the worst episode of the series for me. All those other episodes we love to hate are just episodes, I don't exactly have to factor in Jacks tatoo episode when discussing the overall plot or mythology of the show. But AtS deals with a lot of important shit, and doesn't do it especially well IMO.

This is a good point. Fire + Water is a truly awful piece of television, but I believe it can pretty much be cleanly removed from the show with no hurt caused to the greater story. It is addition by subtraction essentially. That is not the case for AtS.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

I heard people complaing about the directing and musical score of AtS aswell, but both are beautifully done i think.

Tucker Gates is easily the number 2 director of the show and he done this one along with The substitute and AA.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

This is a good point. Fire + Water is a truly awful piece of television, but I believe it can pretty much be cleanly removed from the show with no hurt caused to the greater story. It is addition by subtraction essentially. That is not the case for AtS.

I watched Fire + Water yesterday and thought it was decent.

Theres quite a few funny moments in it actually.

 

[StuBurns]

I watched Fire + Water yesterday and thought it was decent.

Theres quite a few funny moments in it actually.

We're basically not even the same species.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

We're basically not even the same species.

The overall storyline is very weak and to this day im not quite sure what those dreams are all about, but theres alot of moments that made me chuckle.

 

[Washed_Out]

Ahhh new blood, talk about your experience bro, were all looking for something new to talk about here im sure.

Walt = prime example on why not to use child actors when the events in the show take place daily.

Charlie died for nothing.

So was the smoke monster the horse that Kate saw? If so, that wouldn't make sense cause it was never established that he could turn into animals.

:lol so a fucking cork holds the island from being destroyed. Like I said, you just gotta accept some of the weird shit in this show.

The Constant = Best episode
Forget the name of the episode but the episode regarding Jack's tattoo = the worst

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Walt = prime example on why not to use child actors when the events in the show take place daily.

Charlie died for nothing.

So was the smoke monster the horse that Kate saw? If so, that wouldn't make sense cause it was never established that he could turn into animals.

:lol so a fucking cork holds the island from being destroyed. Like I said, you just gotta accept some of the weird shit in this show.

The Constant = Best episode
Forget the name of the episode but the episode regarding Jack's tattoo = the worst

Yeah walt sticks out like a sore thumb on rewatch. Shame.

Actually Charlie didnt die for nothing. He got Aaron to the real world to live a normal life. Thats got to count for something right?

Yeah the horse was probably smokey, he can appear as thing in peoples past. E.g. he scanned ekos memories in "23rd Psalm" and appeared as them in "The cost of living"

The cork holds the darkness back. Its just something from long ago that was put there by some other inhabitants of the island that fucked around with the source when they probably shouldnt.

What gets me though is some people could handle a frozen donkey wheel that moves an island in time, but couldnt handle the cork?

 

[Blader]

I didn't like ATS at first but at the time I didn't realize how much info I actually got out of it. When I rewatched it and then watched it again with the commentary it really hit me on how important it is.

That's exactly why Across the Sea is such a failure for me: because it's important. It's not bad because it's some throwaway filler ep that you can live without, it's damn near the lynchpin of the show's mythology and it was just fucking poor. There's no way around it.

Watching AtS was the first and only time in the entire show that I legitimately felt that Darlton didn't know what they were doing and actually worried about the direction of that show. So just for making me doubt that Lost was actually going to end well and be worth the time is enough to make AtS the worst episode for me.

 

[Washed_Out]

Also, why didn't Smoke kill Mr. Eko during their first encounter? And in the second encounter he kills him. I know it was the best they could do when the actor playing Mr. Eko wanted off the show but eh.

Edit: Oh yeah, the Temple people = complete waste of fucking time.

 

[Naked Snake]

Im just gonna lay it out there:

AtS is one of my favourite episodes of the show.

I'm no Lost apologist (disappointed with The End and season 6 in general), but I really liked AtS.

Different strokes and all that.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

That's exactly why Across the Sea is such a failure for me: because it's important. It's not bad because it's some throwaway filler ep that you can live without, it's damn near the lynchpin of the show's mythology and it was just fucking poor. There's no way around it.

Watching AtS was the first and only time in the entire show that I legitimately felt that Darlton didn't know what they were doing and actually worried about the direction of that show. So just for making me doubt that Lost was actually going to end well and be worth the time is enough to make AtS the worst episode for me.

Its an episode that has alot of layers that cant be seen unless delved into many times. So for first time viewers right near the end of the show its understandable to be feeling that way.

6 months later though? No

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

AtS is just so amazingly, undeniably clumsy, despite having proper themes mapped out. It was just so basic. he direction was piss poor. I get the idea, I get that it is rather intentionally unexceptional in a "the island has always been this way" way, but man, they just played it all wrong. The direction of th ep, the placement. Just embarassing.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Also, why didn't Smoke kill Mr. Eko during their first encounter? And in the second encounter he kills him. I know it was the best they could do when the actor playing Mr. Eko wanted off the show but eh.

Edit: Oh yeah, the Temple people = complete waste of fucking time.

Smokey was going to use him in his loophole to kill Jacob like Locke and Ben, I think that much is obvious.

He changed his mind after he realised Eko was too strong minded and not easily manipulated.

Which is pretty much the opposite for Locke.

 

[EliCash]

Kate's Horse was so an allusion to Twin Peaks.

 

[Blader]

Its an episode that has alot of layers that cant be seen unless delved into many times. So for first time viewers right near the end of the show its understandable to be feeling that way.

6 months later though? No

Unless they filmed a new version of the episode in the last 6 months, then there's no way it's any better.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Unless they filmed a new version of the episode in the last 6 months, then there's no way it's any better.

So you havent watched it since May?

Not suprised.

 

[brandonh83]

Unless they filmed a new version of the episode in the last 6 months, then there's no way it's any better.

We're just saying that the episode makes a lot more sense after actually finishing the story. It's understandable that the first impression isn't good, hell I was in that same boat but after all was said and done, in hindsight, I felt the episode was fine and delivered a lot of good information.

 

[EliCash]

That's exactly why Across the Sea is such a failure for me: because it's important. It's not bad because it's some throwaway filler ep that you can live without, it's damn near the lynchpin of the show's mythology and it was just fucking poor. There's no way around it.

Watching AtS was the first and only time in the entire show that I legitimately felt that Darlton didn't know what they were doing and actually worried about the direction of that show. So just for making me doubt that Lost was actually going to end well and be worth the time is enough to make AtS the worst episode for me.

Yeah, pretty much my thoughts exactly.

I still like AtS because it's Lost, and I find it hard to dislike anything to do with Lost :lol But for the reasons you stated - it has to be the worst episode, no way around it.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

So you havent watched it since May?

Not suprised.

Not gonna lie, I don't think anyone else would want to watch that more than once.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Not gonna lie, I don't think anyone else would want to watch that more than once.

whoa you have a bad day buddy? Thats not like you.

 

[big ander]

AtS is just so amazingly, undeniably clumsy, despite having proper themes mapped out. It was just so basic. he direction was piss poor. I get the idea, I get that it is rather intentionally unexceptional in a "the island has always been this way" way, but man, they just played it all wrong. The direction of th ep, the placement. Just embarassing.

Fucking this. I totally got that the episode tried to show us that even the huge conflict we though was the secret to all of this was just another in an infinite history of this island. I thought that was cool. But it all felt so messy, from the new interaction with the mother to the actual relationship between Jacob and Franz.
I forgot what his actual name ended up being behind the scenes, so I'm just making shit up.

 

[Blader]

We're just saying that the episode makes a lot more sense after actually finishing the story. It's understandable that the first impression isn't good, hell I was in that same boat but after all was said and done, in hindsight, I felt the episode was fine and delivered a lot of good information.

That's not a conclusion that requires six months to reach, it only took a week to contextualize AtS' place in the overall story.

No one is saying AtS had nothing to offer the show. The problem is the exact opposite: it offered a lot, but was so technically and fundamentally poor, that it dropped the ball in a huge way.

No amount of time is going to improve the acting or the dialogue in that episode.