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[brandonh83]

Well, it's mentioned in the encyclopedia, anyway... On the actual show, as far as Egyptian deities go, I'd say Taweret was far more prominent (i.e. not that much in the end, actually)...
But yeah, it's not like you came up with Horus and Set, indeed. My issue would be with the leaps you took from there...

I disagree that I took "leaps." I found the myth referenced on an object of great importance to the island, and the myth just happens to have a lot of things in it that seriously remind me of many things in the story. It's really not that big of a leap. I'm not saying that every single thing I pointed out is 100% on the ball, but there are clearly some evident ties. God of the Afterlife? God of Infertility? These are huge points in the show.

You don't want to agree? I have no problem with that, because I'm having fun doing this. I'm just trying to stimulate conversation and contribute to the thread. I'm not screaming GUYS RIGHT HERE LOOK GUYS ITS ALL THE ANSWERS I FOUND THIS AND RESEARCHED THAT, BAM, ANSWERS MOTHERFUCKERS I AM LOST CHAMPION I'm just saying look, here's some potentially cool little references, ties, and information.

 

[Erigu]

I found the myth referenced on an object of great importance to the island

The box? Sorry, but that's quite the leap, in my opinion...
Ignoring the details, I could grant you that thing about one brother "sealing" the other... but it's Set, the jealous one, who got to do that.

God of the Afterlife? God of Infertility? These are huge points in the show.

But what did Jacob and the MiB have to do with that, on the show?

I'm having fun doing this. I'm just trying to stimulate conversation and contribute to the thread.

Well, keep going at it, then, by all means! Besides, mythology is fun.
Like I said, I just wouldn't assume all of that was actually intended, far from it...

 

[brandonh83]

No, it's referenced on the cork in the cave. The story of Osiris. And the story of Osiris touches on many points that the story in Lost touches on. Ben says "somewhere on this island is a magic box" and the story of Osiris has a "magic box" with people fighting inside of the box, trying to break it open which is much akin to various groups and people like DHARMA and Widmore trying to break open the island, or in a way, crack it open to discover its secrets. In the story of Osiris there is a god of the afterlife, and a god of infertility-- both of which are huge elements of Lost. I'm not saying that Jacob or the Man in Black are supposed to reference these gods; I'm merely pointing out that in the myth, there are elements that share strong similarities to elements in Lost.

Again, I don't really think I'm grasping at straws here.

 

[Raist]

I dont understand, why is it handled poorly? You dont explain why.

I don't even know where to begin. There's so many contradictions, inconsistencies etc that in the end, it really looks like they shoved as many "mysteries" as they could, hooking the viewer with that, and at the same time being vague enough so that they could get away with any kind of random stuff they would come up with. But if you go through the whole series in a few sittings, it's a whole mess that doesn't make any sense. Mostly:

- So the others are Jacob's people. He gives lists, orders and stuff. He brought Jack & Co. to the island. Yet the others kill them, kidnap them, etc etc. Why, exactly? Why make their life a nightmare when they've been brought here by their almighty leader?

- MiB and his goals. So he just wants to get off the island. Oh no, wait, he wants to kill Jacob. Oh no wait, he wants to destroy the island. He could have escaped anytime since he knew exactly where the wheel was (who finished building it btw?). That's all he had to do. Yet his goal changes every other episode with no reason at all.

 

[Blader]

- MiB and his goals. So he just wants to get off the island. Oh no, wait, he wants to kill Jacob. Oh no wait, he wants to destroy the island. He could have escaped anytime since he knew exactly where the wheel was (who finished building it btw?). That's all he had to do. Yet his goal changes every other episode with no reason at all.

Leaving the island and destroying it are the same thing. He wants to get off; finding a way to sink his prison of 2000 years is just two birds with one stone.

And he can't do any of this as long as Jacob is still alive.

 

[brandonh83]

- So the others are Jacob's people. He gives lists, orders and stuff. He brought Jack & Co. to the island. Yet the others kill them, kidnap them, etc etc. Why, exactly? Why make their life a nightmare when they've been brought here by their almighty leader?

It's convoluted, I'll give you that, but the way I see it is that Jacob is putting the candidates through these trials. A lot of things about the story in Lost is very convoluted and wrapped around the same layer a few times too many, but at the same time I can kind of grasp it.

When Jacob is talking to Richard about bringing people to the island, he makes note that he's trying to show the Man in Black that not everyone is inherently evil, or dark, that people can be changed. Obviously Jacob has tons of free time on his hands so I guess he finds it amusing to watch these different groups of people like lab rats to see what they do and who can come out on the top.

Again it's very long-winded, but I get it. Finding candidates, picking the right person, and proving a point to the Man in Black all kind of go hand-in-hand.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

- So the others are Jacob's people. He gives lists, orders and stuff. He brought Jack & Co. to the island. Yet the others kill them, kidnap them, etc etc. Why, exactly? Why make their life a nightmare when they've been brought here by their almighty leader?

The only person of the others who killed anyone was Ethan and he was a bit of a rogue(retcon? probably, but still it works.) The people on the lists were NOT candidates. Thats right not candidates. "Shephard wasnt even on Jacobs list" "You(Sayid, Locke and Kate) are not on the list because you are flawed, angry".

They kidnapped the non candidates to "give them better lives" and keep them away from the candidates so they could play Jacob and MiBs little game. "Because I wanted them to help themselves, to know the difference between right and wrong without me having to tell them, its all meaningless if I have to step in".

- MiB and his goals. So he just wants to get off the island. Oh no, wait, he wants to kill Jacob. Oh no wait, he wants to destroy the island. He could have escaped anytime since he knew exactly where the wheel was (who finished building it btw?). That's all he had to do. Yet his goal changes every other episode with no reason at all.

Yes MiB wants to get off the island.

He ALSO wants to kill Jacob. He can only leave the island once he killed Jacob and the candidates because of the "rules" which the protector of the island creates.

He cant just escape anytime he wants. He is literally chained to the island. He is part of the darkness under the island and until he pops the cork(which destroys the island) he will still be forever chained.

?

 

[Raist]

And he can't do any of this as long as Jacob is still alive.

And why, exactly? The only thing he can't do is kill Jacob. Nothing indicates tha he can't leave the island without killing him.

It's convoluted, I'll give you that, but the way I see it is that Jacob is putting the candidates through these trials. A lot of things about the story in Lost is very convoluted and wrapped around the same layer a few times too many, but at the same time I can kind of grasp it.

When Jacob is talking to Richard about bringing people to the island, he makes note that he's trying to show the Man in Black that not everyone is inherently evil, or dark, that people can be changed. Obviously Jacob has tons of free time on his hands so I guess he finds it amusing to watch these different groups of people like lab rats to see what they do and who can come out on the top.

Again it's very long-winded, but I get it. Finding candidates, picking the right person, and proving a point to the Man in Black all kind of go hand-in-hand.

So the dude hugely messed up, unleashed that nasty evil monster that wants to escape and destroy the world, yet he takes his sweet time and fucks around with his own candidates to prove a point to his brother. Who's dead. Yeah...

 

[Drealmcc0y]

read my post please dude

 

[brandonh83]

So the dude hugely messed up, unleashed that nasty evil monster that wants to escape and destroy the world, yet he takes his sweet time and fucks around with his own candidates to prove a point to his brother. Who's dead. Yeah...

It's never been easy! :lol

But no, I've thought the same way you do for a while, and the writers even make it pretty apparent that Jacob is a very flawed person. At the same time, he still has to find a worthy protector, even someone who is less probable to make the same mistakes that he did because he's been through it and understands how important the job is and how the right person must be chosen.

I think despite his shortcomings, he genuinely tried to do something right in the end, much like how many of the Oceanic characters came to the island incredibly flawed but were given another chance.

 

[Erigu]

No, it's referenced on the cork in the cave.

Well, if that's an actual translation, in the encyclopedia, anyway...

Ben says "somewhere on this island is a magic box"

A magic box that could give you whatever you wish for and turns out to be a mere metaphor (cop-out! ... but that's another matter :lol ).
Not quite the same kind of box...

Again, I don't really think I'm grasping at straws here.

Well... I mentioned Evangelion, earlier...
There are two major characters named "Ayanami Rei" and "Nagisa Kaoru", on that show. In the end,

Spoiler

it turns out that they're actually two sources of life also referred to as "Lilith" and "Adam". Basically, Rei/Lilith is the mother of all mankind, and Kaoru/Adam... well, he infanted something else. And they have this giant spear-like tool called the Spear of Longinus (how subtle is that naming scheme?).

Now, check this out:
Ayanami / Izanami
Nagisa / Izanagi
The genders even fit.
And they had a spear, too: Amenonuboko.

MIND BLOWN, etc.

... And yet, I'm pretty sure that's a coincidence. I've read tons of guides, interviews, lexicons, etc about the series over the years, and that one simply never showed up.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

So the dude hugely messed up, unleashed that nasty evil monster that wants to escape and destroy the world, yet he takes his sweet time and fucks around with his own candidates to prove a point to his brother. Who's dead. Yeah...

He didnt kill his brother. His brother is smokey.

 

[Raist]

The only person of the others who killed anyone was Ethan and he was a bit of a rogue(retcon? probably, but still it works.) The people on the lists were NOT candidates. Thats right not candidates. "Shephard wasnt even on Jacobs list" "You(Sayid, Locke and Kate) are not on the list because you are flawed, angry".

They kidnapped the non candidates to "give them better lives" and keep them away from the candidates so they could play Jacob and MiBs little game. "Because I wanted them to help themselves, to know the difference between right and wrong without me having to tell them, its all meaningless if I have to step in".



Yes MiB wants to get off the island.

He ALSO wants to kill Jacob. He can only leave the island once he killed Jacob and the candidates because of the "rules" which the protector of the island creates.

He cant just escape anytime he wants. He is literally chained to the island. He is part of the darkness under the island and until he pops the cork(which destroys the island) he will still be forever chained.

?

As for the names, and not being on the list (supposedly) because they're flawed... that's precisely the reason why they were on Jacob's list to begin with, which he states at the end. So again, another contradiction. And all of them had their names in the cave, except Kate who didn't anymore because she "is a mother now". So, huh?

And yeah, the magical "rules". Well if the #1 priority is to prevent the evil guy from leaving, and if you can apparently make such powerful rules, I'm pretty sure he didn't have to go through the trouble of bringing people on the island, that's pointless. It's even worse as it's basically giving him an opportunity to mess around.

 

[brandonh83]

Not quite the same kind of box...

Nor did I say it was the same kind of magic box. Again you're trying to narrow it down so much, whereas I'm simply just saying that both stories have a magic box, and I'm pretty sure that the magic box in the Osiris myth is also a metaphor. Point being, both stories reference a magic box. If the Lost writers indeed looked to the Osiris myth for inspiration, it's not hard to see why, at some point, that a magic box would be mentioned.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

As for the names, and not being on the list (supposedly) because they're flawed... that's precisely the reason why they were on Jacob's list to begin with, which he states at the end. So again, another contradiction. And all of them had their names in the cave, except Kate who didn't anymore because she "is a mother now". So, huh?

And yeah, the magical "rules". Well if the #1 priority is to prevent the evil guy from leaving, and if you can apparently make such powerful rules, I'm pretty sure he didn't have to go through the trouble of bringing people on the island, that's pointless. It's even worse as it's basically giving him an opportunity to mess around.

No dude, the list that Jacob gave Ben were lists of people that wernt candidates.

The names on the wall were of the candidates though. No contradiction.

well how powerful and what exactly the rules can do is never gone into so...

 

[Erigu]

I'm pretty sure that the magic box in the Osiris myth is also a metaphor.

... Huh?
Of course, it's imaginary... but in the context of the myth, it's apparently supposed to be an actual box.

 

[brandonh83]

... Huh?
Of course, it's imaginary... but in the context of the myth, it's apparently supposed to be an actual box.

Sure, they're different types of magic boxes, but again the only thing I was pointing out was that both stories reference a magic box. I was just trying to make connections, big or small, between the two stories and felt like pointing out the things that stuck out to me.

Nor do I claim them all to be spot on, or answers to some of the show's mysteries. But they had to reference Osiris on the cork inscriptions for a reason.

 

[Blader]

And why, exactly? The only thing he can't do is kill Jacob. Nothing indicates tha he can't leave the island without killing him.

uh, what? S6 was all about how MIB can't leave the island unless Jacob and all potential Jacobs (i.e. the remaining candidates) are dead.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Raist has already made up his mind that he dislikes the show, he will only come back until he finds something to complain about.

Am i right?

 

[ivysaur12]

I was really hoping I could download the encyclopedia on my nook. Guess not.

 

[Erigu]

Leaving the island and destroying it are the same thing.

Really? 'Cause it looks like the MiB was planning on leaving before he got the idea to use Desmond to destroy the island.
He didn't even know Desmond was there, at first. And then, he asked Sayid to go and kill him (because he couldn't do so himself, for some reason).

So the dude hugely messed up, unleashed that nasty evil monster that wants to escape and destroy the world, yet he takes his sweet time and fucks around with his own candidates to prove a point to his brother.

What makes it even more hilarious is that:
1) In order to prove his point, he summons people on the island... but his brother kills them all on the spot (for some reason? let's not go there), and Jacob's all: "why should I intervene? they should help themselves! ... against the invincible smoke monster I unleashed..." Efficient!
2) In the end, Jacob is basically "OK, fuck the point I was trying to make, just go ahead and kill my brother." Well, that was worth it. And how should they do that, Jacob? "I know (Desmond, the cork and all that), but I'm not tellin'!" Nice.

 

[brandonh83]

Raist has already made up his mind that he dislikes the show, he will only come back until he finds something to complain about.

I don't really get that Raist comes in here with the intention of being a negative nancy.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Really? 'Cause it looks like the MiB was planning on leaving before he got the idea to use Desmond to destroy the island.
He didn't even know Desmond was there, at first. And then, he asked Sayid to go and kill him (because he couldn't do so himself, for some reason).

MiB isnt all clued up, he doesnt realise he is evil incarnate. He doesnt realise his soul has merged with the darkness. He is just a dude who wants to get off that bluddy island.

He doesnt realise that if he left, the whole world would essentially end.

 

[Blader]

As for the names, and not being on the list (supposedly) because they're flawed... that's precisely the reason why they were on Jacob's list to begin with, which he states at the end. So again, another contradiction.

No, you're mixing up the lists Jacob gives to the Others with the names he inscribes on the lighthouse wheel/cave wall.

The people on those lists are non-candidates, people that Jacob wants the Others to shelter and take care of. Jack, Kate, etc. are not on these lists (and are written on the lighthouse/cave) because they're flawed, because they're being sought as potential guardians of the island, not as just normal residents.

 

[.GqueB.]

No, it's referenced on the cork in the cave. The story of Osiris. And the story of Osiris touches on many points that the story in Lost touches on. Ben says "somewhere on this island is a magic box" and the story of Osiris has a "magic box" with people fighting inside of the box, trying to break it open which is much akin to various groups and people like DHARMA and Widmore trying to break open the island, or in a way, crack it open to discover its secrets. In the story of Osiris there is a god of the afterlife, and a god of infertility-- both of which are huge elements of Lost. I'm not saying that Jacob or the Man in Black are supposed to reference these gods; I'm merely pointing out that in the myth, there are elements that share strong similarities to elements in Lost.

Again, I don't really think I'm grasping at straws here.

I think what Erigu is getting at is the fact that, yes, we can see where the writers got their "inspiration" from but you can do that with most literature. For instance, Im not sure if you saw the movie Vanilla sky but I think that movie is the perfect reference to explain what Erigu is talking about.

Throughout that movie, there are countless references to music and pop culture. Historical moments and even (more specifically) album covers. As the viewer, you can see these things and call them out if you experienced them (or simply knew about them) but at first, they are just random references and they dont really mean much of anything. There are some hints thrown in here and there but its all pretty vague.

But then you get to the end. The ending explains these random references and makes them a bit more tactile in the story. He was building a world for himself to live in based on his experiences in his real life and in that way, he felt he was living in a perfect existence (until it all went to hell of course). All of a sudden, all of these vague references weren't so vague anymore.

Lost never had this moment. Yes, they used many different stories and cultures to tell their story but in the end, they failed to fully explain why they were relevant. This is evident in your post. You say that since both stories both have "boxes" then they have to relate. This isnt true because the boxes arent used in the same way. So in the end, we have all these nice references and sources of inspiration but we never fully understand why it all matters and what it means to the story.

We can sit here and guess and assume what the light and the wheel mean and why the exit is in Tunisia but in the end thats all we're doing... guessing and assuming. They never really tried to explain these things in any specific way and as a result their viewers felt cheated and rightfully so.

I believe Erigu is going about this the wrong way by pissing anyone and everyone off but he does have a point and hes been making the same point for quite a while now. No amount of explaining is really gonna do much good because, given the vagueness of it all, things like this:

The wheel is just a wheel.

It was a means MiB tried to use to leave the island. He didnt realise this but because he was manipulating the light it caused the island to move aswell as a side effect.

It would have worked if he got the chance and ended up in tunisia.

The source is life and death.

It has the capacity of both good and evil, light and dark, heaven and hell.

Just end up sounding made up and silly (no offense).

 

[Drealmcc0y]

I don't really get that Raist comes in here with the intention of being a negative nancy.

He aint no Erigu but I still believe he has made up his mind.

He aint ever, ever gonna say something like "Wow, that make sense, thanks guys"

 

[Blader]

We can sit here and guess and assume what the light and the wheel mean and why the exit is in Tunisia but in the end thats all we're doing... guessing and assuming. They never really tried to explain these things in any specific way and as a result their viewers felt cheated and rightfully so.

I believe Erigu is going about this the wrong way by pissing anyone and everyone off but he does have a point and hes been making the same point for quite a while now. No amount of explaining is really gonna do much good because, given the vagueness of it all, things like this:

The wheel is just a wheel.

It was a means MiB tried to use to leave the island. He didnt realise this but because he was manipulating the light it caused the island to move aswell as a side effect.

It would have worked if he got the chance and ended up in tunisia.

The source is life and death.

It has the capacity of both good and evil, light and dark, heaven and hell.

Just end up sounding made up and silly (no offense).

wat

That was all in the show! :lol

 

[Drealmcc0y]

The wheel is just a wheel.

It was a means MiB tried to use to leave the island. He didnt realise this but because he was manipulating the light it caused the island to move aswell as a side effect.

It would have worked if he got the chance and ended up in tunisia.

The source is life and death.

It has the capacity of both good and evil, light and dark, heaven and hell.[/I]

Just end up sounding made up and silly (no offense).

I like it.
You just wanted a science ending where the DI explained everything.

 

[brandonh83]

All I did was take a myth referenced directly on an item in the show, and found out that the myth had a lot of similar elements of important things in the show.

You guys are seriously looking way too much into everything I said. All I did was find a neat little easter egg. I felt it was worth talking about or sharing. Then in typical fashion Erigu comes in and starts off on his thing about how there are so many references to everything everywhere, not to look into it.

The fact of the matter is, the myth of Osiris is mentioned on the cork, and the myth of Osiris ended up relating to a lot of elements mentioned in the show. That is all. But I do think that a lot of inspiration came from this myth. Again it wasn't some random myth that I stumbled upon-- but from a myth referenced directly on an object that is important to the show's own mythology.

However important or relevant it is, fuck if I know.

 

[Sweedishrodeo]

as someone who believes strongly in the first three seasons of this show, it is blowing my mind that people are saying that seasons five or six are their favorites, or trying to reason out some sort of logic of the show's "mythology," or are contemplating a Lost tattoo.

although the show did very well at creating atmosphere and had a (lack of?) talent for pacing the whole way through, they took a massive piss on everyone with the last seasons and ending. can no one handle the truth?

through the looking glass - that was the end of the true LOST. third season had significant filler, and it was still badass. people need to go watch series that are consistent like the wire or battlestar and realize how far this show had fallen by the finale. i will always love Lost, but it was trash at the end. : (

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Season 6 FTW

:lol

"can noone handle the truth"

Pffft
The thing is you mean this.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

as someone who believes strongly in the first three seasons of this show, it is blowing my mind that people are saying that seasons five or six are their favorites, or trying to reason out some sort of logic of the show's "mythology," or are contemplating a Lost tattoo.

Are you talking about the people talking about Jack's tattoo?

:lol

 

[brandonh83]

through the looking glass - that was the end of the true LOST. third season had significant filler, and it was still badass. people need to go watch series that are consistent like the wire or battlestar and realize how far this show had fallen by the finale. i will always love Lost, but it was trash at the end. : (

Really, I thought that season 4 was considerably better than 3. 3 had a rough start and virtually stayed that way through like half the season, but season 4 was tight and solid most of the way through, and had what I still consider one of the best finales in the entire show.

 

[ivysaur12]

Just end up sounding made up and silly (no offense).

Yeah but... it is made up. It's fantasy. To be quite fair, no explanation will EVER completely justify why a wheel on the island takes you to Africa.

At some points, the plot explanations stretch very thing (I agree with the wheel) and suspension of disbelief because fairly implausible, but at other points, especially in an episode like Across the Sea, the show is attempting to be much more subtle and much more metaphoric. Whether it succeeds or not is up the viewer, but Lindelof and Cruse aren't trying to do an exposition on the mythology of the show.

Could things have made more sense? Sure, I'm sure that if they were able to rewrite the entire series before they started filming, it would make a much tighter package with less loose ends. But that's true for the medium of television.

as someone who believes strongly in the first three seasons of this show, it is blowing my mind that people are saying that seasons five or six are their favorites, or trying to reason out some sort of logic of the show's "mythology," or are contemplating a Lost tattoo.

although the show did very well at creating atmosphere and had a (lack of?) talent for pacing the whole way through, they took a massive piss on everyone with the last seasons and ending. can no one handle the truth?

through the looking glass - that was the end of the true LOST. third season had significant filler, and it was still badass. people need to go watch series that are consistent like the wire or battlestar and realize how far this show had fallen by the finale. i will always love Lost, but it was trash at the end. : (

Season 4 is the high point of the show. Not to say that 5 or 6 didn't have their moments (and they did, especially 6).

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Season 4 is the high point of the show. Not to say that 5 or 6 didn't have their moments (and they did, especially 6).

Isn't Season 5 the Deadwood/New Otherton 70's season? Surely nothing ever topped that.

 

[Sweedishrodeo]

i hope someone does get Jack's tattoo, i'll pop a whole bottle of vicodin in their honor

and season 4 did have it going on for a minute, but i could sense it all unravelling with the going-no-where charles widmore mercenary nonsense. turns out i was right for once. too bad i was too dumb to stop watching

 

[hamchan]

I like MiB, if I was in his position I would do the same thing. I would have liked it if Smokey wasn't really his brother, if it was really evil incarnate and was just taking the form of Jacob's dead brother to mess with him.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

i hope someone does get Jack's tattoo, i'll pop a whole bottle of vicodin in their honor

and season 4 did have it going on for a minute, but i could sense it all unravelling with the going-no-where charles widmore mercenary nonsense. turns out i was right for once. too bad i was too dumb to stop watching

Why is it pointless?

Just because widmore isnt the be all end all.

Its like say The Wire.

The Greeks arent the be all end all, does that make them pointless in the second season?

It only ends once, anything that happens before that is just progress.

 

[.GqueB.]

I like it.
You just wanted a science ending where the DI explained everything.

Not exactly. Im the type of person that doesnt like when things are over explained. I couldnt imagine any explanation that wouldve been "good" for the black monster. Small robots? Giant crane arm under the guise of black smoke? Anything wouldve been silly.

But what I did expect was something to tie this all together better. Is all... if youre gonna be vague and ambiguous at the very least leave decent bread crumbs in the story so I can make some educated guesses.

Like Inception and Leo's wedding ring.

 

[Sweedishrodeo]

i willllll say that it is a great show for getting laid, as it promotes suspense, and therefore close physical contact. also it goes on for way too long, which is ideal for lots of pooty tang

 

[brandonh83]

Yeah but... it is made up. It's fantasy. To be quite fair, no explanation will EVER completely justify why a wheel on the island takes you to Africa.

At some points, the plot explanations stretch very thing (I agree with the wheel) and suspension of disbelief because fairly implausible, but at other points, especially in an episode like Across the Sea, the show is attempting to be much more subtle and much more metaphoric. Whether it succeeds or not is up the viewer, but Lindelof and Cruse aren't trying to do an exposition on the mythology of the show.

Could things have made more sense? Sure, I'm sure that if they were able to rewrite the entire series before they started filming, it would make a much tighter package with less loose ends. But that's true for the medium of television.

I think they were right in making it more about the characters than the mythology. They're on a crazy ass island. I don't think anyone could come up with something about an island that could satisfy everyone on both logistical and surprising levels.

However, keeping the characters as the focus, they were able to tell fantastic character driven and emotional stories. The mythology was handled just right. What people may not realize is that they probably don't really want to know everything about the island. I know I don't. If I did, I wouldn't be able to come in here and have these wond...erful conversations about it, nor would I probably continue to think about the information given to me in the show.

It ended in May, here yet I am in December, almost the next year, trying to theorize and understand it a bit better, hoping for people who actually liked it and care about it to throw what they think at me. People were quick to bash Lindelof and Cuse for saying that the show is about the characters rather than the mythology, but tell me, what was everyone's favorite episodes?

The Constant. Walkabout. People love these episodes because of their emotional power and character-driven narratives. Without episodes like this, Lost may be a lesser entity. The show isn't about the island, but about how the island is the means to develop the characters. The island may be some leftover artifact of a conflict between gods, or land covering a crashed alien spaceship. It doesn't really matter, but the writers give us just enough to go on if we wish to pursue more information.

The traces of mythology that we do get are usually directly related to what the characters have to do, or what information the characters need to reach their goal. We learned about the wheel and the island's ability to transport people to Tunisia because that's what happened during the natural course of the story. We learned about the cave, the light, the stone cork, the smoke monster, etc. because these things greatly factored into Jack's character journey and the overall goal of the story.

I too watched the show almost frequently going "oh god damn it just tell us what the fuck is going on!" but in hindsight, that's not really why I kept watching it. If it weren't for the fantastic characters, good filmmaking, emotional power, and so on, I would have probably grown tired of waiting on answers or explanations long before the show ended, yet my resolve never wavered once.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Not exactly. Im the type of person that doesnt like when things are over explained. I couldnt imagine any explanation that wouldve been "good" for the black monster. Small robots? Giant crane arm under the guise of black smoke? Anything wouldve been silly.

But what I did expect was something to tie this all together better. Is all... if youre gonna be vague and ambiguous at the very least leave decent bread crumbs in the story so I can make some educated guesses.

Like Inception and Leo's wedding ring.

You mean like how the button is like the cork with hieroglyphics that said "underworld" except from a science point of view?

That sort of breadcrumb? :lol

 

[Drealmcc0y]

You never cease to amaze me brandon :')

 

[ivysaur12]

I think they were right in making it more about the characters than the mythology. They're on a crazy ass island. I don't think anyone could come up with something about an island that could satisfy everyone on both logistical and surprising levels.

However, keeping the characters as the focus, they were able to tell fantastic character driven and emotional stories. The mythology was handled just right. What people may not realize is that they probably don't really want to know everything about the island. I know I don't. If I did, I wouldn't be able to come in here and have these wond...erful conversations about it, nor would I probably continue to think about the information given to me in the show.

It ended in May, here yet I am in December, almost the next year, trying to theorize and understand it a bit better, hoping for people who actually liked it and care about it to throw what they think at me. People were quick to bash Lindelof and Cuse for saying that the show is about the characters rather than the mythology, but tell me, what was everyone's favorite episodes?

The Constant. Walkabout. People love these episodes because of their emotional power and character-driven narratives. Without episodes like this, Lost may be a lesser entity. The show isn't about the island, but about how the island is the means to develop the characters. The island may be some leftover artifact of a conflict between gods, or land covering a crashed alien spaceship. It doesn't really matter, but the writers give us just enough to go on if we wish to pursue more information.

The traces of mythology that we do get are usually directly related to what the characters have to do, or what information the characters need to reach their goal. We learned about the wheel and the island's ability to transport people to Tunisia because that's what happened during the natural course of the story. We learned about the cave, the light, the stone cork, the smoke monster, etc. because these things greatly factored into Jack's character journey and the overall goal of the story.

I too watched the show almost frequently going "oh god damn it just tell us what the fuck is going on!" but in hindsight, that's not really why I kept watching it. If it weren't for the fantastic characters, good filmmaking, emotional power, and so on, I would have probably grown tired of waiting on answers or explanations long before the show ended, yet my resolve never wavered once.

The fact that it's so character focused and those characters are almost iconic is the reason why Lost succeeds over its imitators.

What are the heavily mythological shows of the past decade that have succeeded? X-Files, Buffy, Angel, Lost, Battlestar Galactica, Smallville, Supernatural... each of these shows has extremely likable, relatable and lovable characters. What would X-Files be without the relationship between Mulder and Scully? Buffy without the Scoobies? Angel without AI? Supernatural without Sam, Dean, Bobby and Cas? Lost without Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Juliet, Jin, Sun, Desmond, Sayid, Charlie... The list goes on.

The reason that people become so attached to these shows aren't because of solving the mysteries presented (though that's obviously important), people love them because of their characters and their developments.

I don't care about the awful, irrational and potentially schizophrenic characters in The Event. I couldn't remember anyone's name five episodes into FlashForward. Happy Town was one of the most expository and ludicrous television shows I've ever seen a network put on the air. Their lack of compelling and likable characters are one of the (myriad) of reasons these shows fail most critically and commercially.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

I think that some people get so wrapped up in the internet discussion of the mythology that they just forget and oversee that this show is without a doubt about these characters and their journey.

 

[brandonh83]

I just think that if the show ended on a high note in terms of mythology, the characters may have been left out in the dust by comparison. I'm not saying that Lost couldn't have been written any better, it most certainly could have, but I think they did an amazing job considering its scope and how detailed everything about it is.

However, I think I'm one of the few who actually sees the way the character journeys ended as part of the mythology as well because I think the island's power directly relates to the afterlife and vice versa. Or at least part of it. So while many people saw it as just being about the characters, I did find it to be a relevant piece of island mythology.

That doesn't mean I'm right, per se, but that's exactly why I continue to think about the show and continue to come to this thread. To me the island's power, everything about Desmond and constants and the flash-sideways are all interrelated.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

I just think that if the show ended on a high note in terms of mythology, the characters may have been left out in the dust by comparison. I'm not saying that Lost couldn't have been written any better, it most certainly could have, but I think they did an amazing job considering its scope and how detailed everything about it is.

However, I think I'm one of the few who actually sees the way the character journeys ended as part of the mythology as well because I think the island's power directly relates to the afterlife and vice versa. Or at least part of it. So while many people saw it as just being about the characters, I did find it to be a relevant piece of island mythology.

That doesn't mean I'm right, per se, but that's exactly why I continue to think about the show and continue to come to this thread. To me the island's power, everything about Desmond and constants and the flash-sideways are all interrelated.

Yeah totally, the FSW would never have happened, if they just let the island be destroyed.

 

[brandonh83]

Yeah totally, the FSW would never have happened, if they just let the island be destroyed.

To me their afterlife was sort of their reward for eliminating the smoke monster and bringing about a new protector that will do a better job than Jacob did. It's kind of like how the point of the Star Wars prequels was to show how fucked up the Jedi Order was and how Anakin's genesis led to a new Jedi Order at the hands of Luke.

Yeah, I know people hate the prequels, but I'm just making a comparison. Everyone hated how the Jedi were portrayed, but I dug how they were really flawed and how it gave more weight to the title "Return of the Jedi."

 

[Drealmcc0y]

To me their afterlife was sort of their reward for eliminating the smoke monster and bringing about a new protector that will do a better job than Jacob did. It's kind of like how the point of the Star Wars prequels was to show how fucked up the Jedi Order was and how Anakin's genesis led to a new Jedi Order at the hands of Luke.

Thats not how I see it, but thats cool too.

The island was on the bottom of the ocean because the only reason the island exists is because of the light. But the light is the entirety of the FSW. So the island had no purpose.

At least thats what I think.

 

[brandonh83]

I'm just saying that the Losties' afterlife may have been a product of what they did for the island, that someone not related to the island's struggle may not receive that special kind of treatment-- but who knows?

I don't think that our theories contradict one another though.