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[Drealmcc0y]

I don't think that our theories contradict one another though.

You're right.

It makes sense.

 

[brandonh83]

I like the idea of the island rewarding them for their sacrifices. That's all on me though, I don't have any strong supporting evidence for this.

 

[.GqueB.]

I think they were right in making it more about the characters than the mythology. They're on a crazy ass island. I don't think anyone could come up with something about an island that could satisfy everyone on both logistical and surprising levels.

However, keeping the characters as the focus, they were able to tell fantastic character driven and emotional stories. The mythology was handled just right. What people may not realize is that they probably don't really want to know everything about the island. I know I don't. If I did, I wouldn't be able to come in here and have these wond...erful conversations about it, nor would I probably continue to think about the information given to me in the show.

It ended in May, here yet I am in December, almost the next year, trying to theorize and understand it a bit better, hoping for people who actually liked it and care about it to throw what they think at me. People were quick to bash Lindelof and Cuse for saying that the show is about the characters rather than the mythology, but tell me, what was everyone's favorite episodes?

The Constant. Walkabout. People love these episodes because of their emotional power and character-driven narratives. Without episodes like this, Lost may be a lesser entity. The show isn't about the island, but about how the island is the means to develop the characters. The island may be some leftover artifact of a conflict between gods, or land covering a crashed alien spaceship. It doesn't really matter, but the writers give us just enough to go on if we wish to pursue more information.

The traces of mythology that we do get are usually directly related to what the characters have to do, or what information the characters need to reach their goal. We learned about the wheel and the island's ability to transport people to Tunisia because that's what happened during the natural course of the story. We learned about the cave, the light, the stone cork, the smoke monster, etc. because these things greatly factored into Jack's character journey and the overall goal of the story.

I too watched the show almost frequently going "oh god damn it just tell us what the fuck is going on!" but in hindsight, that's not really why I kept watching it. If it weren't for the fantastic characters, good filmmaking, emotional power, and so on, I would have probably grown tired of waiting on answers or explanations long before the show ended, yet my resolve never wavered once.

About your first point, I do believe that they succeeded in satisfying everyone on both logistical and surprising levels for 4 seasons and they did it flawlessly. As I said, LOST was without a doubt the best 4 seasons of television Ive ever seen.

LOST struck a very nice balance between mythology and characterization because it was the discovery of these island mysteries that ultimately led to us finding out more about these characters. But once we found out enough about these characters, the show kind of fell apart because the role of mythology and characterization were essentially flipped.

In seasons 5 and 6, the characters were being led around my the mythology and ultimately didnt know what they were doing and why they were doing it. The viewer wasnt told much either so there wasnt much dramatic irony going on so there was nothing to really relate to. We were all LOST and werent getting much help.

This was only amplified in the 6th season as the characters began almost acting against themselves. I cant count how many times I said to myself "why arent you asking this... ASK THIS. Jack would ask this right now why isnt he asking it?" All the characters were acting like mindless zombies and it all felt unnatural and forced. This wasnt the LOST I got to know and love. This was the writers not wanting to reveal too much so they wrote a script that would enable them to achieve that end.

Like in across the sea she referred to Jacob by name and MiB as "your brother". The mother of this child couldnt say his name because the writers didnt want to reveal his name. Its things like this that upset me about season 6. And there was a lot of that.

God this show is like a black hole. I cant stay away.

 

[Blader]

Like in across the sea she referred to Jacob by name and MiB as "your brother". The mother of this child couldnt say his name because the writers didnt want to reveal his name. Its things like this that upset me about season 6. And there was a lot of that.

No, because he didn't have a name.

And in any case, those kinds of things are hardly exclusive to just seasons 5 and 6. :lol

 

[hamchan]

Dogen sucks

 

[brandonh83]

Dogen sucks

Yep :lol

 

[ivysaur12]

Dogen sucks

Oh yeah and there's this, but I still really liked season 6.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

No, because he didn't have a name.

And in any case, those kinds of things are hardly exclusive to just seasons 5 and 6. :lol

Seriously.

And he's complaining about people not asking questions in seasons 5 and 6?

Its the same exact thing in every season.

 

[.GqueB.]

No, because he didn't have a name.

And in any case, those kinds of things are hardly exclusive to just seasons 5 and 6. :lol

Not exclusive. But after 6 seasons and all they had been through it just seemed a bit "off" to me is all.

 

[Erigu]

He doesnt realise that if he left, the whole world would essentially end.

'Can't blame him, 'cause it's never been made all that clear, really...

A lot of characters were talking about how the MiB leaving would be really, really, really bad, the end of everything, etc... but what did they mean by that, exactly?
Widmore was one of them, and he accepted to talk in exchange for the MiB sparing his daughter's life. Clearly, if Widmore thought the MiB leaving would instantly trigger the end of the world, that wouldn't make any sense, right?
So what the hell were they talking about? The MiB killing every single living being one by one? Why would he do that?

But then, there's also Mom talking about how the fire of the island should be protected or it would be the end of... life itself?
And for some reason, the MiB decides that's a great idea (????). Apparently, he doesn't think he needs to destroy the island in order to leave (again, he seemed pretty convinced he could do that simply by killing Jacob and his candidates). No, it's just for kicks. He could just leave, the one thing he wanted more than anything, but noooo: let's take a chance! Maybe Mom didn't know what she was talking about, after all!

Dumbfounding.

And in the end, who are we to believe, then? What were the stakes, anyway?

He aint ever, ever gonna say something like "Wow, that make sense, thanks guys"

You'd have to come up with something that makes sense. I won't agree simply out of courtesy.

in typical fashion Erigu comes in and starts off on his thing about how there are so many references to everything everywhere, not to look into it.

I didn't tell you not to look into it (on the contrary, but hey... details!). 'Just saying I find your "connections" far-fetched, that's all.

Im the type of person that doesnt like when things are over explained. I couldnt imagine any explanation that wouldve been "good" for the black monster. Small robots? Giant crane arm under the guise of black smoke? Anything wouldve been silly.
But what I did expect was something to tie this all together better.

Yeah, some consistency...
When we're introduced to Jacob's enemy, and it turns out he was the Smoke Monster... Er... OK? Why was he attacking trees? Chasing people, letting them go, and chasing them again the next day? Answering Ben's Bat-Signal?

You mean like how the button is like the cork with hieroglyphics that said "underworld" except from a science point of view?
That sort of breadcrumb? :lol

Now, that was just idiotic... How do you even explain that?
"Hey, let's put hieroglyphs in that countdown! It's completely pointless as they won't show up unless the world is about to end, but we're soooo drunk on DHARMA beer!"
(and of course, why would DHARMA use hieroglyphs anyway? we've been there, and it turned out they knew next to nothing about the island anyway...)
Yet another example of random nonsense thrown at the audience...

I think that some people get so wrapped up in the internet discussion of the mythology that they just forget and oversee that this show is without a doubt about these characters and their journey.

The characters were terrible and their arcs inane at best.

he didn't have a name.

In-universe, you mean? It could simply be that we never got to hear it (because it's intriguiiiing, according to the two hacks)...
I'd find it hard to fathom that a kid would be raised for years without ever getting a name... Not that I'd be all that surprised if Lost went there. :lol
(after all, the same episode had the children wondering what death was... don't you hunt, kids? c'mon, now!)

 

[Catalix]

Seriously.

And he's complaining about people not asking questions in seasons 5 and 6?

Its the same exact thing in every season.

He's saying that it was done in a more convincing manner in earlier seasons. In later seasons, especially 6, the writers withheld secrets and information at the expense of relatable character interactions.

They pushed it too far, which broke the illusion many times. It's a delicate balance, apparently. Must be tough to maintain constant mystery, but still have the characters act like real, intelligent human beings. Yet, they somehow did it for a number of seasons beforehand. Very commendable.

 

[Raist]

No, you're mixing up the lists Jacob gives to the Others with the names he inscribes on the lighthouse wheel/cave wall.

The people on those lists are non-candidates, people that Jacob wants the Others to shelter and take care of. Jack, Kate, etc. are not on these lists (and are written on the lighthouse/cave) because they're flawed, because they're being sought as potential guardians of the island, not as just normal residents.

I'm not mixing anything. Both lists come from Jacob. So basically, there's the "I don't give a shit about these people, welcome them, give them crappy clothes, have fun" and the "these people are very important, they'll save the world. Please try to kill them, kidnap them, all the good stuff." Makes no sense at all.

 

[Mr. Mister]

Moar!

Yet there was trouble. Proud Set, noble Set, the brother of Osiris, he who defended the Sun Boat from Apep the Destroyer, was unsettled in his heart. He coveted the throne of Osiris. He coveted Isis. He coveted the power over the living world and he desired to take it from his brother. In his dark mind he conceived of a plot to kill Osiris and take all from him. He built a box and inscribed it with wicked magic that would chain anyone who entered it from escaping.

Set took the box to the great feast of the gods. He waited until Osiris had made himself drunk on much beer, then challenged Osiris to a contest of strength. Each one in turn would enter the box, and attempt, through sheer strength, to break it open. Osiris, sure in his power yet feeble in mind because of his drink, entered the box. Set quickly poured molten lead into the box. Osiris tried to escape, but the wicked magic held him bound and he died. Set then picked up the box and hurled it into the Nile where it floated away.

Seems to me that the writers intended for the island to represent that box, and the text refers to different people entering the "box" and attempting to break it open. This reminds me of Dharma, Widmore, etc. going to the island and attempting to break it, or harness its power.

But even beyond that, there's so much connection there. The plot to kill Osiris is reminiscent of Man in Black's plot to kill Jacob (since Set and Osiris are brothers), how Set coveted everything about Osiris, etc.

As the show was coming to an end the Egyptian red herrings (among many other things) were what clued me in to the fact the writers were making it all up. They had a statue of an egyptian god, hieroglyphics everywhere, a guy with the initials R.A. who wore black eye liner, and a guy named Horus who at points seemed pivotal but ended up being meaningless. These were all major things and I was excited to see how they were going to tie up all the mysteries of the island.

Ohh to be that naive again.

EDIT - And to be clear saying that the statue and hieroglyphics were just there because some ancient civilization built them is kind of lame. Even the most die hard Lost fan has to admit they would want to know who built the island, how, why, etc. A ton of people watched the show for that very reason.

 

[Blader]

a guy with the initials R.A. who wore black eye liner

:lol

Even the most die hard Lost fan has to admit they would want to know who built the island, how, why, etc.

How does one build an island?

 

[Catalix]

YoYeah, some consistency...
When we're introduced to Jacob's enemy, and it turns out he was the Smoke Monster... Er... OK? Why was he attacking trees? Chasing people, letting them go, and chasing them again the next day? Answering Ben's Bat-Signal?

Now, that was just idiotic... How do you even explain that?
"Hey, let's put hieroglyphs in that countdown! It's completely pointless as they won't show up unless the world is about to end, but we're soooo drunk on DHARMA beer!"
(and of course, why would DHARMA use hieroglyphs anyway? we've been there, and it turned out they knew next to nothing about the island anyway...)
Yet another example of random nonsense thrown at the audience...

I'm not mixing anything. Both lists come from Jacob. So basically, there's the "I don't give a shit about these people, welcome them, give them crappy clothes, have fun" and the "these people are very important, they'll save the world. Please try to kill them, kidnap them, all the good stuff." Makes no sense at all.

As the show was coming to an end the Egyptian red herrings (among many other things) were what clued me in to the fact the writers were making it all up. They had a statue of an egyptian god, hieroglyphics everywhere, a guy with the initials R.A. who wore black eye liner, and a guy named Horus who at points seemed pivotal but ended up being meaningless. These were all major things and I was excited to see how they were going to tie up all the mysteries of the island.

Ohh to be that naive again.

EDIT - And to be clear saying that the statue and hieroglyphics were just there because some ancient civilization built them is kind of lame. Even the most die hard Lost fan has to admit they would want to know who built the island, how, why, etc. A ton of people watched the show for that very reason.

 

[Mr. Mister]

How does one build an island?

I was trying to say all the crap on the island -- sorry it wasn't clear. Though you do raise an interesting question as clearly this is a special magical island with crazy powers. So I will rephrase the question.

Who built the magical island in the first place, who built all the crap on it, how, why, etc. A ton of people watched the show for that very reason.

 

[brandonh83]

How does one build an island?

Sand, palm trees, caves, mountains-- for starters.

Anyway, the show demonstrated that many civilizations have came and went, though I do suppose that there are literally people who expected a character to walk up to the camera and say "The Egyptians built the temple and the statue, Dharma built the stations," etc.

And asking who built the magical island is kind of retarded anyway considering that whatever power the island holds was likely there before anyone ever set foot on the place.

 

[Catalix]

I was trying to say all the crap on the island -- sorry it wasn't clear. Though you do raise an interesting question as clearly this is a special magical island with crazy powers. So I will rephrase the question.

Who built the magical island in the first place, who built all the crap on it, how, why, etc. A ton of people watched the show for that very reason.

wuh? why would you conclude that someone "built" the Island?

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Yea, I definitely tuned into a unique character drama week to week to figure out who built a fictional island.

 

[Erigu]

the show demonstrated that many civilizations have came and went, though I do suppose that there are literally people who expected a character to walk up to the camera and say "The Egyptians built the temple and the statue, Dharma built the stations," etc.

The DHARMA guys weren't stranded on the island and had the resources (and hopefully some good reasons... 'not sure what's supposed to be canonical anymore, at this point) for all that. The statue, on the other hand...

Point is, the writers kept deliberately inserting Egyptian shit like that... The hieroglyphs on the Swan countdown, some maps and the island's cork, the balance in Jacob's cave, Jacob's ankh (a huge-ass ankh just to hide a tiny piece of paper, huh?), that one big engraving depicting a Smoke Monster (when was that? what happened to that Smoke Monter?), etc. So yeah, one would expect some kind of pay-off at some point or another.
Too bad: the writers don't give a shit. It's your own damn fault for expecting decent storytelling.

(in fact, Lindelof and Cuse argued that there was a good chance the hieroglyph-covered cork was built after the MiB turned into as smoke monster, i.e. less than two thousand years ago... ooookay?)

 

[threenote]

What's going on in here? :lol

 

[brandonh83]

What's going on in here? :lol

Just... turn and walk away.

 

[oatmeal]

'The characters were terrible and their arcs inane at best.

This is why I'll never take you seriously.

 

[brandonh83]

I'm Erigu. I used to be a huge fan of the show, even though I don't like the story, and there's a billion plot holes, and the characters and their arcs sucked-- but I used to love it.

 

[oatmeal]

I'm Erigu. I used to be a huge fan of the show, even though I don't like the story, and there's a billion plot holes, and the characters and their arcs sucked-- but I used to love it.

Well he does like Bokurano... ^_^

 

[brandonh83]

I just think it's weird that he has such a strong desire to talk about the show and make attempts to deflate anything anyone ever says because he used to love the show, but he doesn't like the story or the characters and thinks its terrible writing all-around.

 

[gdt]

I've been slacking on my S6 rewatch, I rewatched LAX, and stopped there. Gotta admit, What Kate Does is holding me back a bit :lol .

It's like "The Substitute is close, but fuuuuuuuck WKD is first."

 

[oatmeal]

I just think it's weird that he has such a strong desire to talk about the show and make attempts to deflate anything anyone ever says because he used to love the show, but he doesn't like the story or the characters and thinks its terrible writing all-around.

There's nothing to figure out, he makes less sense than LOST.

 

[brandonh83]

gdt: It's not that bad. The dock scene makes it worth watching. I don't really get the hate for What Kate Does but then again I've never been on the Kate hate. I actually liked how the episode showed that Kate had finally moved on from being a bitch criminal to actually trying to help someone and isn't as selfish anymore.

Oh, fuck me there I go talking about character development again.

 

[oatmeal]

Oh, fuck me there I go talking about character development again.

What character development?

You mean the inane bullshit that they did for 121 episodes? Without logic or reason? Written by two simpletons?

 

[gdt]

gdt: It's not that bad. The dock scene makes it worth watching. I don't really get the hate for What Kate Does but then again I've never been on the Kate hate. I actually liked how the episode showed that Kate had finally moved on from being a bitch criminal to actually trying to help someone and isn't as selfish anymore.

Oh, fuck me there I go talking about character development again.

Oh, I specifically remember the dock scene (and music) as being the episode's highlight. But that flashsideways was boooooring shit.

I've never been on the Kate hate train either. WHH 4 lyfe.

 

[threenote]

I've been slacking on my S6 rewatch, I rewatched LAX, and stopped there. Gotta admit, What Kate Does is holding me back a bit :lol .

It's like "The Substitute is close, but fuuuuuuuck WKD is first."

It's not that bad. I actually enjoyed it the second time.

 

[oatmeal]

It's not that bad. I actually enjoyed it the second time.

Samesies.

Without the pressure of 'ANSWERS', and it being a known quantity, it took the edge off and made it a smooth ride.

Of course, NOTHING THOSE PIECES OF SHIT SAID OR DID MADE A LICK OF FUCKING SENSE...RAGE!!!!

 

[threenote]

Just... turn and walk away.

Everyone here should just ignore erigu. The dude is trollin.

 

[brandonh83]

What character development?

You mean the inane bullshit that they did for 121 episodes? Without logic or reason? Written by two simpletons?

:lol

As much as people despise Kate, I find her to be a very strong female protagonist. And her theme music (heard in "Kate's Motel" from the season 1 OST) elicits a great mystery vibe for me-- it kind of has this "on the road that leads to an unknown destination" kind of feel. Which sums up Kate totally.

She was basically running down a never-ending road, and I was glad to see that picked up and continued (and paralleled) in the last season. I know it's not everyone's favorite point of interest in Lost, but I really did enjoy her character development and most of her centric episodes.

 

[Catalix]

What's going on in here? :lol

bail the fuck out :lol

 

[brandonh83]

Everyone here should just ignore erigu. The dude is trollin.

Well, like I said a bit earlier (you weren't around) Erigu asks legitimate questions sometimes. Not saying that all of his questions are illegitimate, but sometimes they do propel me to actually think about them. Sometimes I agree with him but most of the time, I find myself at a state of indifference. He'll ask a question that I'm not totally sure how to answer or explain and I kind of shrug thinking, ok, good point.

I know I defend the show extensively and show love for it frequently, but I don't think it's perfect. I'm just the type of individual that, if I love something enough, I don't really care about the blemishes it does have. For example I love MGS4, but there are a lot of things I dislike about it. Overall though, I think it's awesome and simply choose to ignore the flaws.

I'm much the same with Lost. If it were up to me, it would be maybe a season or two shorter, tighter, a bit faster paced, bigger action sequences, more exploration-- and as someone mentioned-- it's annoying how none of the characters ever ask questions or try to figure things out. So I would definitely change that.

In the end though, I realize that it's a television production. It's impossible to know for sure how many seasons you're going to get, how long people will stay on board, issues with actors, etc. This leads to some cumbersome and troublesome scripting that plays it safe "just in case" something needs to be changed later. It's not like a book, where you can plan the entire thing out perfectly and then execute it.

Taking all of this into consideration, I find that Lost is incredibly impressive, but like anything else it isn't perfect; I just choose to ignore the imperfections and focus on the things that I like, and there is a lot of that.

 

[ivysaur12]

I've been slacking on my S6 rewatch, I rewatched LAX, and stopped there. Gotta admit, What Kate Does is holding me back a bit :lol .

It's like "The Substitute is close, but fuuuuuuuck WKD is first."

She runs. That what she does.

 

[brandonh83]

Also Kate was suuuuper hot in What Kate Does. Hottest she's ever been in the show, sans when she loses Aaron in the grocery store :lol

 

[threenote]

bail the fuck out :lol

Too late, but I'm not falling for any trolls this time.

Well, like I said a bit earlier (you weren't around) Erigu asks legitimate questions sometimes. Not saying that all of his questions are illegitimate, but sometimes they do propel me to actually think about them. Sometimes I agree with him but most of the time, I find myself at a state of indifference. He'll ask a question that I'm not totally sure how to answer or explain and I kind of shrug thinking, ok, good point.

I know I defend the show extensively and show love for it frequently, but I don't think it's perfect. I'm just the type of individual that, if I love something enough, I don't really care about the blemishes it does have. For example I love MGS4, but there are a lot of things I dislike about it. Overall though, I think it's awesome and simply choose to ignore the flaws.

I'm much the same with Lost. If it were up to me, it would be maybe a season or two shorter, tighter, a bit faster paced, bigger action sequences, more exploration-- and as someone mentioned-- it's annoying how none of the characters ever ask questions or try to figure things out. So I would definitely change that.

In the end though, I realize that it's a television production. It's impossible to know for sure how many seasons you're going to get, how long people will stay on board, issues with actors, etc. This leads to some cumbersome and troublesome scripting that plays it safe "just in case" something needs to be changed later. It's not like a book, where you can plan the entire thing out perfectly and then execute it.

Taking all of this into consideration, I find that Lost is incredibly impressive, but like anything else it isn't perfect; I just choose to ignore the imperfections and focus on the things that I like, and there is a lot of that.

Yeah, he asks legitimate questions sometimes, but his intention is not to get those questions answered; his intention is to annoy us. Yeah, the show isn't perfect, but who cares? It's over. It's not like any of us regulars will change our mind about Lost thanks to Erigu's wisdom.

Think of Lost as being some kind of religion. We all love Lost no matter how imperfect it may be. Erigu is like that Jehovah Witness dude that tries to convinces us that we're wrong and we need to convert to his batshit religion (no offense erigu). No matter how hard he tries, we'll never succumb to his beliefs.

 

[ProudClod]

I don't know if anyone remembers the specifics, but there was a scene in season 5 that was replayed from several different perspectives. I'm talking about the scene where Ben and all the losties meet up together off island. Every single time that scene was shown from a different perspective, several major things changed. For example, the first time we see that scene, Sayid says something along the lines of: "If i ever see either of you again (Jack and Ben), it will be very unpleasant for all of us." Next time we see this scene, in Sayid's episode, he says "If I ever see him (Ben) again, it will be very unpleasant for both of us." I'm fairly certain they talked about it briefly on the podcast, and Darlton said something like "there was a reason for this." Did we ever find out what that reason was?

 

[Dez]

well, this thread convinced me to continue my blu-ray rewatch of Lost that I started before S6 started. I'm on Catch 22 now. Soooo good . I can't wait for Greatest Hits + Through the Looking Glass.

 

[brandonh83]

I can't wait for Greatest Hits + Through the Looking Glass.

Tissues. Stock up.

edit: nvm, rewatch. missed that. eh, still, stock up.

 

[.GqueB.]

I don't know if anyone remembers the specifics, but there was a scene in season 5 that was replayed from several different perspectives. I'm talking about the scene where Ben and all the losties meet up together off island. Every single time that scene was shown from a different perspective, several major things changed. For example, the first time we see that scene, Sayid says something along the lines of: "If i ever see either of you again (Jack and Ben), it will be very unpleasant for all of us." Next time we see this scene, in Sayid's episode, he says "If I ever see him (Ben) again, it will be very unpleasant for both of us." I'm fairly certain they talked about it briefly on the podcast, and Darlton said something like "there was a reason for this." Did we ever find out what that reason was?

I always thought it was an accident in the editing room. Thats interesting *rubs beard*

 

[Dez]

'You know, I don't usually get in the car with strangers.'
'Well in that case I'm Penelope. Penny.'

with 'the constant' playing in the background. love it.

 

[Catalix]

Catch 22 is very underrated.

 

[oatmeal]

So did anyone ever catch TIMES TALKS LIVE: LOST when it was on YouTube? I saw it in theaters and it was on YT for like...2 days before it was removed. I want a copy of that, it was amazing...

Surely someone downloaded it, right?

I need it.

 

[Catalix]

:lol :lol Still no luck, huh? Sorry, man

 

[threenote]

So did anyone ever catch TIMES TALKS LIVE: LOST when it was on YouTube? I saw it in theaters and it was on YT for like...2 days before it was removed. I want a copy of that, it was amazing...

Surely someone downloaded it, right?

I need it.

I'm DYING to see that too

 

[oatmeal]

I'm DYING to see that too

It was soooo good. And I showed people the next day on YouTube at work. It was in 1080p, and if I only had the fucking foresight to download them JUST IN CASE...Goddamnit.

I emailed the Times people and they said that it will likely not be released again due to licensing issues with ABC.

I posted on the Darkufo forums today asking them...hoping I get a bite.