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evil solrac v3.0 said:
what bait and switch?????

That the show was never spiritual and was a show about science.

Christian Shephard
Locke and Eko
"I'll see you in the next life, if not in this one."
"I spoke to your brother, while I was between places"
"I'll see ya in another life brotha"

etc etc
 
Catalix said:
or

3. A combination of 1 and 2

Yup. I was disappointed with some things, like the handling of the mythology and some of the answers were really stupid (the Black Rock crashing into the statue) but overall I felt like I got "enough" and found the last season and finale very entertaining and even captivating.

The show wasn't perfect at all, but I still consider it a high achievement because it had an interesting story, excellent performances, a fuckton of really good characters, plenty of twists and surprises, some successful resolutions, and a very emotional payoff that sort of brought some of the themes together in a great way.
 
I think in retrospect that the unrecoverable left turn they took was moving the island in the S4 finale and going into time travel and alternate realities. Love the show very much up to an including the S4 finale, but that was the turning point.
 
dave is ok said:
Maybe you were so invested with the characters and the universe in which it took place that it was impossible to dislike a product which took place within that setting?

At the very least, you can't pretend to watch it objectively when you border on obsession.

Like I said, there are both types of people here. You can't dismiss everyone who says S6 was a huge disappointment By writing 'WHO BUILT THE STATUE?' sarcastically. I wish the people who love S6 would defend it with arguments as least as well thought out as Erigus'

Disagree. I rewatched it three times last semester, and 1-4 a year and a half ago a couple times for production courses. I did presentations and a paper. Made me love it, and see its flaws and strengths. The story, setting, cinematography, music, ect were all so original, unique and amazing to me that even though it's not nearly perfect I was never let down within an ounce of how much I always enjoyed something on the show.

In fact, I feel as if because I analyzed it so much I am able to see it more objectively, as both a production and a series. Which lets me have an understanding for why certain things would have been impossible or unrealistic to both expect from the series or even ask for without ruining other portions of the series.

Then again. You could be right. Either way.

LOST ftw.
 
Solo said:
I think in retrospect that the unrecoverable left turn they took was moving the island in the S4 finale and going into time travel and alternate realities. Love the show very much up to an including the S4 finale, but that was the turning point.

Youve said that a few times.

Talk about scrapping that barrel solo
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
Regardless of what other people think of things you consider good, if you like things that are good for the reasons that they are good (not, say, watching The Sopranos waiting for someone to get shot or The Russian to stumble out of the woods) then you have good taste. Some who likes everything does not have good taste.
So you do agree that having good taste isn't simply a matter of liking some good stuff after all?
Awesome.


brandonh83 said:
So, by your logic, everyone has bad taste, because I'm sure most people like at least one or two things that are deemed shit by at least someone else.
Yes, let's think in absolutes!
Dude. I was simply saying taste was a matter of discernment, not of how many critically acclaimed titles you like.

And I'm not the one who claimed to have "awesome taste", here, remember?
I don't even know that I'd argue I have particularly good taste, when it comes to fiction. I'm working on it. At the very least, I can tell Lost was pointless, pretentious, inconsistent nonsense, but that's admittedly setting the bar fairly low...


Drealmcc0y said:
WHO BUILT THE FUCKING STATUE
"Egyptians" seems like a fair bet. "Why" and "how" would be more critical questions.

I mean, it's a fucking giant statue. Presumably old. Do you think our main characters could build something like that? Or like the temple, for that matter?
Sorry, but yeah, the existence of that statue and that temple raises quite a few questions. My first thought, when I saw that foot? "Hey, couldn't that mean that the island wasn't always a forsaken island? Or not always just an island?"
But of course, you can't expect the Lost showrunners to actually think about all that: they were just throwing random "intriguing" shit at the wall.
(Isabel who? Latin what? hippie Others whuh? ankhs whah?)
Yeah, who cares about this stupid "world-building" stuff?
I should try and raise a Tolkien golem, someday. Blood would flow.
 
brandonh83 said:
Yup. I was disappointed with some things, like the handling of the mythology and some of the answers were really stupid (the Black Rock crashing into the statue)

Hahaha. I was like. Really? When that happened. I had to laugh at it. Wasn't big on that answer, but whatever haha.
 
Drealmcc0y said:
That the show was never spiritual and was a show about science.

Christian Shephard
Locke and Eko
"I'll see you in the next life, if not in this one."
"I spoke to your brother, while I was between places"
"I'll see ya in another life brotha"

etc etc
Carlton Cuse once said that every answer on Lost would be explainable by "scientific means" as opposed to magic. Guess he gave up on that right around the time he invested the magical light in the center of the island that turns people into smoke monsters.
 
Solo said:
I think in retrospect that the unrecoverable left turn they took was moving the island in the S4 finale and going into time travel and alternate realities. Love the show very much up to an including the S4 finale, but that was the turning point.

I somewhat agree, I'm not sure I'll ever be sold on the direction they took in season 5, but for me at least, season 6 greatly recovered from it.
 
dave is ok said:
Carlton Cuse once said that every answer on Lost would be explainable by "scientific means" as opposed to magic. Guess he gave up on that right around the time he invested the magical light in the center of the island that turns people into smoke monsters.

Really? I remember many an interview since S1 where they said not everything will have a defined scientific answer. Some may be a combination of both the fantastical and scientific and others will not be as clear. I remember reading this stated in numerous ways by Darlton throughout the series.
 
evil solrac v3.0 said:
what bait and switch?????

How about Ben's character? Early on in the series we're shown that he's somewhat of a bigwig on the Island, someone who might have answers and might know what the fuck is going on. By the end of the series we're told he didn't know shit. He was essentially Jacob's puppet.

How about Ben and Widmore? How it was portrayed that there might be something huge between these two guys?

How about the Dharma Initiative? By God, I remember during season 2, I was so intrigued with their purpose on the Island. The group had this mystique surrounding them. All that completely fizzled away towards the end of the series. They were nobodies.

We learn by the end that no one had a fucking clue about what was going on other than MiB and Jacob. And the rivalry between these two, which lead to just about everything that happened to the characters and the island, wasn't even revealed till Season 6

I think all those are examples of bait and switch. It is so cheap to create that type of mystery in a show that has to do with mysticism.

Now you can certainly blame me for not managing my expectations.
 
dave is ok said:
Carlton Cuse once said that every answer on Lost would be explainable by "scientific means" as opposed to magic. Guess he gave up on that right around the time he invested the magical light in the center of the island that turns people into smoke monsters.

I believe they called it "pseudo science".

Made up magic light?

"Ive looked into the eye of this island and what i saw was beautiful"

"I saw a very bright light, it was beautiful"

There is no proof either way that the writes made it all up or they had it all planned.

I have my awesome foreshadowing.

You have nothing, except the occasional plot hole.
 
HenryGale said:
More or less:
Lost Answers Are Out There

Damon Lindelof, co-creator of ABC's hit series Lost, told SCI FI Wire that he and fellow executive producers J.J. Abrams and Bryan Burk have carefully worked out the answers to the castaway island's mysteries, including the nature of the unseen jungle monster, some of which may be revealed by the end of the first season. "Every mystery that we present on the show?What is the monster? Where does Ethan come from? Why hasn't Claire had her baby yet??all those are questions that we know the answers to," Lindelof told reporters at the network's winter press tour in Universal City, Calif. "But how and when we present those answers is not written in stone. ... Hopefully we ... won't betray the audience. ... All I can say is, we're trying, we're doing our best, and we think the answers that we have are pretty cool."

Lindelof said that a DVD set of the first season will come out this summer, before a second season begins in the fall. As the show progresses, he added, it won't venture too far into science fiction as its mysteries unfold. "We're still trying to be ... firmly ensconced in the world of science fact," he said in an interview. "I don't think we've shown anything on the show yet ... that has no rational explanation in the real world that we all function within. We certainly hint at psychic phenomena, happenstance and ... things being in a place where they probably shouldn't be. But nothing is flat-out impossible. There are no spaceships. There isn't any time travel."


Drealmcc0y said:
I have my awesome foreshadowing.
Yeah, like "OMG! two sides, white and black! they knew about Jacob and his brother back in the first season already!"?
It really is your foreshadowing, indeed. Only yours. In your heart. <3
 
Drealmcc0y said:
"I saw a very bright light, it was beautiful".
Yeah. Only he was describing looking at the smoke monster when he said that, but hey... they abandoned the plot point of the smoke monster looking different to some people pretty quickly. I forgive you for that one
 
Erigu said:
More or less:




Yeah, like "OMG! two sides, white and black! they knew about Jacob and his brother back in the first season already!"?
It really is your foreshadowing, indeed. Only yours. In your heart. <3

He said the show would try and stay within those bounds and it did in my opinion. Beyond a few mysteries which would be impossible to solve. I don't see much wrong with that ONE statement. It isn't as clear cut as you are arguing....

bleh. I just realized I was returning Erigu an actual post. Oh Erigu. The black smoke of GAF. You tricked me again.
 
brandonh83 said:
Yup. I was disappointed with some things, like the handling of the mythology and some of the answers were really stupid (the Black Rock crashing into the statue) but overall I felt like I got "enough" and found the last season and finale very entertaining and even captivating.

The show wasn't perfect at all, but I still consider it a high achievement because it had an interesting story, excellent performances, a fuckton of really good characters, plenty of twists and surprises, some successful resolutions, and a very emotional payoff that sort of brought some of the themes together in a great way.

Wasn't it a tidal wave that broke the statue?
 
HenryGale said:
He said the show would try and stay within those bounds and it did in my opinion.
He said the show wouldn't venture too far into science fiction. Are you really going to argue it didn't?
He said he didn't think they had shown anything with "no rational explanation in the real world that we all function in". Wasn't the monster already there in the very first episode? What happened to the pilot of that plane, again?
Guy just wanted to make sure viewers would stay tuned: "Sure, it will all make sense in the end! Keep watching!"... even if that meant saying some seriously stupid shit.
 
Erigu said:
So you do agree that having good taste isn't simply a matter of liking some good stuff after all?
Awesome.



Yes, let's think in absolutes!
Dude. I was simply saying taste was a matter of discernment, not of how many critically acclaimed titles you like.

And I'm not the one who claimed to have "awesome taste", here, remember?
I don't even know that I'd argue I have particularly good taste, when it comes to fiction. I'm working on it. At the very least, I can tell Lost was pointless, pretentious, inconsistent nonsense, but that's admittedly setting the bar fairly low...



"Egyptians" seems like a fair bet. "Why" and "how" would be more critical questions.

I mean, it's a fucking giant statue. Presumably old. Do you think our main characters could build something like that? Or like the temple, for that matter?
Sorry, but yeah, the existence of that statue and that temple raises quite a few questions. My first thought, when I saw that foot? "Hey, couldn't that mean that the island wasn't always a forsaken island? Or not always just an island?"
But of course, you can't expect the Lost showrunners to actually think about all that: they were just throwing random "intriguing" shit at the wall.

(Isabel who? Latin what? hippie Others whuh? ankhs whah?)
Yeah, who cares about this stupid "world-building" stuff?
I should try and raise a Tolkien golem, someday. Blood would flow.




the first thing when I see a statue on an island is "someone before built this" the island was never forsaken, where the hell do you get that?
 
Top scenes from the series: (not in any particular order, just as I think of them)

1. Last 10 minutes of the finale

2. Last 5 minutes of Walkabout

3. Last 5 minutes of Deus ex Machina (Locke's kidney is stolen; meanwhile on the island, Locke bangs on the hatch, troubled over Boone's injury, when the light turns on)

4. During Live Together Die Alone, when we learn that it was Desmond who turned the light on, when Locke's banging interrupted Desmond from committing suicide

5. During Homecoming, when Ethan starts running after Claire in the woods, and Jack, Sayid, and Sawyer spring out and start chasing him down... aaaaaand cut to commercial. OMG intense!

6. "We have to go back!" If I were ranking these in order, this would have to be number 1, maybe 2 at the lowest.

7. Arzt blows up, accompanied with "Dude... You've got Arzt on you."

8. Jack pounds on Charlie's chest like a madman, when all hope seems lost as Kate cries out for him to stop.... and then miraculously, he comes back to life.

9. Jack says to Ana Lucia, "How long would it take to train an army?" Then the episode ends. It's probably just personal preference, and I know it didnt materialize into anything, but that one scene and its implications were awesome.

10. In The Long Con, when Sawyer reveals to the camp that there's a new sheriff in town, and he has all the guns.

Post yours if you like.
 
evil solrac v3.0 said:
the first thing when I see a statue on an island is "someone before built this" the island was never forsaken, where the hell do you get that?
It takes a whole lot of people to build something like that (or the temple). That goes well beyond the "little groups of stranded people" we've seen on the show. It would have to be an actual society.
How did they all show up?
I guess you could argue that maybe only a few people were stranded in the first place, and it took generations for that society to emerge, but I wouldn't expect the resulting society to be so unmistakably Egyptian after all that time (or those first stranded people were particularly well educated and their knowledge was flawlessly passed on for generations despite the dire circumstances, and that would be quite impressive).

So, yeah: "couldn't that mean that the island wasn't always a forsaken island? or not always just an island?"
 
tycoonheart said:
The statue was put there so it would give us fans something to talk about.
Exactly:
In a teleconference with select fans held on April 17, 2008, Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse slightly rectified a misquote of an anecdote previously told by Lindelof at the 2008 Paley Festival. According to Cuse, the true story was that the statue was originally stated to have six toes in the script, but ABC executives mandated that it better have only four toes, which was considered less "weird" than six toes. According to their own words, Lindelof and Cuse didn't mind as long as the statue didn't have five toes. However, sculptor Jim Van Houten gave yet another explanation in the May 9, 2008 video podcast, claiming that the statue's foot was changed from six to four toes because it was hard to tell that it wasn't a regular five-toed foot when it had six toes. Note that in the real world, hippos have four toes, which in hindsight would match with a hippopotamus-headed Taweret.
"In hindsight", yeah. Wouldn't have worked with six toes, naturally.
The idea was just to have something "weird"/"intriguing". "As long as it doesn't have five toes."
 
dave is ok said:
Carlton Cuse once said that every answer on Lost would be explainable by "scientific means" as opposed to magic. Guess he gave up on that right around the time he invested the magical light in the center of the island that turns people into smoke monsters.

That's probably exactly what happened.

Who cares? Dude wasn't writing a book series, and even those dudes can rarely sustain the same tone and intent for for six or seven books. If you're dipping your toes into something that has a roman numeral on the spine or that's been given an "end date" by a network, unless you want to give some small portion of your life to bitterness, you just have to accept that shows are created by people not computers, and they come up with new things over the course of six years that they maybe find a little more compelling than the thing they thought of a year before.

Personally, I have no room in my life for bitterness, but I do understand that some people enjoy luxuriating in it.
 
My DHARMA engraved case came today! YES!

IMG_1661.jpg

IMG_1666.jpg

IMG_1681.jpg


My DHARMApad if you have yet to see it.
photo-9.jpg
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
If you're dipping your toes into something that has a roman numeral on the spine or that's been given an "end date" by a network, unless you want to give some small portion of your life to bitterness, you just have to accept that shows are created by people not computers, and they come up with new things over the course of six years that they maybe find a little more compelling than the thing they thought of a year before.
Sure, but I'd expect a writer to pay a great deal of care to the previous installments in order to avoid inconsistencies while improvising.
Would you say that's unrealistic? I don't know: I follow a bunch of long-running series that manage. Maybe that's nothing short of miraculous. Or maybe you think Lost's inconsistencies were just par for the course because your standards are freaking low.


Willy105 said:
That's awesome.
What's "awesome" is that the same guys maintain that they always knew the resolutions to their mysteries when they introduced them. Awesomely shameless.
 
Willy105 said:
I don't know, I wouldn't make the connection that the number of toes the statue had was the same as knowing how the major plot points will end.
I was talking about the statue. Way to change the subject.
(and like dave is ok said, they clearly didn't know how the major plot points would end either)
 
Erigu said:
I was talking about the statue. Way to change the subject.
(and like dave is ok said, they clearly didn't know how the major plot points would end either)

What are you talking about? I didn't change any subject. Even the statue is the post you quoted!
 
Willy105 said:
What are you talking about? I didn't change any subject.
"I wouldn't make the connection that the number of toes the statue had was the same as knowing how the major plot points will end."
Who said anything about making a connection between the number of toes on that statue and how the major plot points would end? I was just talking about the statue, there.

Point is, the statue didn't have four toes because it was Taweret, i.e. an anthropomorphic hippopotamus. It had four toes simply because the showrunners wanted it to have an unusual number of toes ("it doesn't matter to us if it has six toes or four toes, as long as it's not five toes"). They were actually going for six toes, and it ended up being four for completely non-Taweret-related issues.
So do you think they knew it was a statue of Taweret, back then? 'Cause it doesn't look like it...
 
dave is ok said:
They didn't know. They also didn't didn't know who Adam and Eve were in S1, and about a half million other things too

They knew it was it was the origin of the story and the people that brought them to the island.

The words "Our very own adam and eve" proves that. If you cant see that, how fucking dumb are you.

Not to mention the black and white stones are a nice touch.

Also did you know that the original game of backgammon is senet? and that it was said that if you win senet you are given passage to the afterlife.
 
Erigu said:
"I wouldn't make the connection that the number of toes the statue had was the same as knowing how the major plot points will end."
Who said anything about making a connection between the number of toes on that statue and how the major plot points would end? I was just talking about the statue, there.

Point is, the statue didn't have four toes because it was Taweret, i.e. an anthropomorphic hippopotamus. It had four toes simply because the showrunners wanted it to have an unusual number of toes ("it doesn't matter to us if it has six toes or four toes, as long as it's not five toes"). They were actually going for six toes, and it ended up being four for completely non-Taweret-related issues.
So do you think they knew it was a statue of Taweret, back then? 'Cause it doesn't look like it...

I was saying that the connection between the number of toes the statues had and how all the major plot points were made up on the spot was a pretty wide jump, since that is what I thought you meant from this:

Erigu said:

This didn't sound like you were being specific for the statue.
 
Drealmcc0y said:
They knew it was it was the origin of the story and the people that brought them to the island.
The words "Our very own adam and eve" proves that. If you cant see that, how fucking dumb are you.
Not to mention the black and white stones are a nice touch.
-> 24 - Facepalm Drop
32 - Activate the Station Uplink
38 - Access Mainland Communications
56 - Access the Sonar System
 
Erigu said:
Sure, but I'd expect a writer to pay a great deal of care to the previous installments in order to avoid inconsistencies while improvising.
Would you say that's unrealistic? I don't know: I follow a bunch of long-running series that manage. Maybe that's nothing short of miraculous. Or maybe you think Lost's inconsistencies were just par for the course because your standards are freaking low.

In case you were wondering, "Because your standards are freaking low" is when I decided to never respond to one of your posts again.

(That was a reference to The West Wing, which I'm sure you got, because your taste is way more impeccable than mine.)
 
Its so funny arguing over what they planned or didnt plan.

Because there is no proof either way.

Yet that is almost entirely what Erigu uses his entire hatred on, what they did or didnt know.

So thats pretty funny.
 
Erigu said:
-> 24 - Facepalm Drop
32 - Activate the Station Uplink
38 - Access Mainland Communications
56 - Access the Sonar System

yeah you're right Erigu in show foreshadowing is way less credible than the interviews you love to post.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
In case you were wondering, "Because your standards are freaking low" is when I decided to never respond to one of your posts again.
Was that really an outrageous conclusion to reach?

"I think anyone expecting 6 seasons of consistency was just asking to live a life of spite and anger."

Sorry, but when I read that, I think "low standards".
Just like you apparently consider mine to be unrealistically high, in fact. It almost makes too much sense.


Drealmcc0y said:
Yet that is almost entirely what Erigu uses his entire hatred on, what they did or didnt know.
It wouldn't matter what they did or didn't know if:
1) the whole thing made sense in the end,
2) they hadn't lied about that the whole time.
It didn't, and they have.
 
Erigu said:
It wouldn't matter what they did or didn't know if:
1) the whole thing made sense in the end,
2) they hadn't lied about that the whole time.
It didn't, and they have.

Well 99% makes sense to me, so it looks like everything you've said is pointless.

O Lawd
 
Erigu, serious question: can you direct me to the shows with 6+ seasons that are wholly consistent (both in quality and style) throughout? I feel like I have watched or am planning to watch some great TV shows, but your posts make me think that you, as a highly cultured individual with excellent taste, know of the hidden gems.
 
Wow Erigu for not liking the show you always have a fully cited article or podcast interview relating to whatever it is someone brings up within 2 minutes of the topic being brought up.

Ha ha are you sure you are not Gregg Nations fucking with us or something?
 
At times I feel like rewatching the series. The first few season grabbed me by the sack. How does the story stand up, after having seen all the reveals?
 
malfcn said:
At times I feel like rewatching the series. The first few season grabbed me by the sack. How does the story stand up, after having seen all the reveals?

Some people say it holds up really well.

Some say, nothing makes sense.

Who to believe?
 
malfcn said:
At times I feel like rewatching the series. The first few season grabbed me by the sack. How does the story stand up, after having seen all the reveals?

I feel like it's definitely a different experience. S1 is a lot more interesting, knowing everything. All the setups were vague enough that it's really easy to just fit Jakey and MiB into the constructs everyone is talking about.
 
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