LOST |OT|

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shadowsdarknes said:
Your move!
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All right!

I'll start with just one li'l character-related thing:

Someone once said the whole point of the very end was that the characters managed to forgive themselves.
Normally, I'd ask "did you watch the same show I did?", but that someone was the co-creator/producer/writer Damon Lindelof (I'll see if I can find a link later: Kingdom of Loathing rollover is drawing nigh and I have other priorities!).
I don't remember Locke, Kate or Sawyer forgiving themselves for their past deeds, for example. Or even feeling kinda bad about them. Do you?

EDIT:
Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5chCMRsEVo&t=15m20s
 
Erigu said:
All right!

I'll start with just one li'l character-related thing:

Someone once said the whole point of the very end was that the characters managed to forgive themselves.
Normally, I'd ask "did you watch the same show I did?", but that someone was the co-creator/producer/writer Damon Lindelof (I'll see if I can find a link later: Kingdom of Loathing rollover is drawing nigh and I have other priorities!).
I don't remember Locke, Kate or Sawyer forgiving themselves for their past deeds, for example. Or even feeling kinda bad about them. Do you?
Click to expand...

I felt it was much more about them finding peace with their state of being. But in a sense a way to move on was to forgive themselves. Which I guess could be shown by them letting go of the Island. The Island proved to be an escape for many of them, and allowed to the live without consequence for their previous vices. But by finally letting go they could finally face their true self. I feel this applies to everyone but Jack though. Jack I feel even till the end could only marginalize himself in order to put everyone ahead of himself. And I don't think he was selfless in this act, but more self-loathing.
 
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
Didn't want it confused with all the porn in neoism's account. ;)
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smiley-lol.gif
 
Erigu said:
All right!

I'll start with just one li'l character-related thing:

Someone once said the whole point of the very end was that the characters managed to forgive themselves.
Normally, I'd ask "did you watch the same show I did?", but that someone was the co-creator/producer/writer Damon Lindelof (I'll see if I can find a link later: Kingdom of Loathing rollover is drawing nigh and I have other priorities!).
I don't remember Locke, Kate or Sawyer forgiving themselves for their past deeds, for example. Or even feeling kinda bad about them. Do you?
Click to expand...

My god you're still watching this thread? For someone that has such issues with it it seems odd to be one of the most prolific posters!
 
injurai said:
I felt it was much more about them finding peace with their state of being. But in a sense a way to move on was to forgive themselves. Which I guess could be shown by them letting go of the Island. The Island proved to be an escape for many of them, and allowed to the live without consequence for their previous vices.
Click to expand...
(Well, in Locke's case, I'd argue he wasn't a murderer before the island...)

But by finally letting go they could finally face their true self.
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When would you say that happened, for the examples I listed above?


Captain_Spanky said:
My god you're still watching this thread?
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Well, as long as someone's wrong on the internet!
 
neoism said:
so Erigu you still hate this show with a passion or do you secretly love it ;p
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I never "hated" the show. It's just dumb (often hilariously so, in fact), and there would be many other dumb shows. My problem would be with the praise it and its producers get.
 
Erigu said:
All right!

I'll start with just one li'l character-related thing:

Someone once said the whole point of the very end was that the characters managed to forgive themselves.
Normally, I'd ask "did you watch the same show I did?", but that someone was the co-creator/producer/writer Damon Lindelof (I'll see if I can find a link later: Kingdom of Loathing rollover is drawing nigh and I have other priorities!).
I don't remember Locke, Kate or Sawyer forgiving themselves for their past deeds, for example. Or even feeling kinda bad about them. Do you?
Click to expand...

I think they forgave themselves in different ways. Sawyer became less selfish when he assumed the role of leader among those whom were sent to the past. He finds true love and happiness. Putting the needs of others in front of himself is what drives him to forgive his past deeds. He learns that surviving ain't enough without the love and support of others. Therein lies his redemption.

Locke's was the most obvious I think. When he lost his legs he lost his faith. His paralysis is symbolic of his inner torture over his fathers manipulation. Locke with the help of Jack restores his faith and is able to move on from his past.

Kate's path to redemption is less clear to me at the moment. In fact, the whole her and Jack thing never really fit her character. That shoehorned relationship is one of the only complaints I have of Lost.
 
Up to Season 1 Episode 6 on my rewatch, i'm really enjoying it.
I love the characters on this show, it's even good to see the mysteries unfolding again even though i know what happens. Also i forgot how good the music in this show is!

The creators must have had some idea of the end game, especially the Jacob/Man in Black stuff because they have shown the black and white stones a few times.
 
shadowsdarknes said:
Sawyer became less selfish when he assumed the role of leader among those whom were sent to the past.
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Yes, and he stopped hoarding medicine and stuff, too, which is nice, I guess...

He finds true love and happiness.
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I don't think that counts as atonement for murder though...

Putting the needs of others in front of himself is what drives him to forgive his past deeds. He learns that surviving ain't enough without the love and support of others. Therein lies his redemption.
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You don't have a problem with the way his "revenge" arc was handled?
He killed an innocent on the way? Oh, well.
And in the end? Yup, they simply have him murder the (old, defenseless) guy he had always wanted to murder. And that's a wrap! Neat resolution: closure by good old, healthy murder.
What have we learned? Well, apparently, killing people really isn't that big a deal. In fact, Sawyer then goes on to execute Tom (snarky one-liner free of charge). But that's okay: he's a good guy, now!

Locke's was the most obvious I think. When he lost his legs he lost his faith. His paralysis is symbolic of his inner torture over his fathers manipulation. Locke with the help of Jack restores his faith and is able to move on from his past.
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What about his murdering a woman he didn't even know because of that faith?

Kate's path to redemption is less clear to me at the moment.
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Probably because it never seemed she even felt slightly guilty about murdering her foster-but-really-biological father in his sleep. He was an asshole, so he deserved to die! Simple. Hell, let's even plead not guilty. No brainer, really.
Man, did we explore the hell of that one, in 6 seasons!

Here's the interview I mentioned above, by the way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5chCMRsEVo&t=15m20s


-Stranger- said:
The creators must have had some idea of the end game, especially the Jacob/Man in Black stuff because they have shown the black and white stones a few times.
Click to expand...
Any scenario involving a conflict between good guys and bad guys would have done the trick, really...


Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
Just finished season 2... Hmm...
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Did any part of Jack and Sayid's plan make sense to you? ^^
 
Erigu said:
Yes, and he stopped hoarding medicine and stuff, too, which is nice, I guess...


I don't think that counts as atonement for murder though...


You don't have a problem with the way his "revenge" arc was handled?
He killed an innocent on the way? Oh, well.
And in the end? Yup, they simply have him murder the (old, defenseless) guy he had always wanted to murder. And that's a wrap! Neat resolution: closure by good old, healthy murder.
What have we learned? Well, apparently, killing people really isn't that big a deal. In fact, Sawyer then goes on to execute Tom (snarky one-liner free of charge). But that's okay: he's a good guy, now!


What about his murdering a woman he didn't even know because of that faith?


Probably because it never seemed she even felt slightly guilty about murdering her foster-but-really-biological father in his sleep. He was an asshole, so he deserved to die! Simple. Hell, let's even plead not guilty. No brainer, really.
Man, did we explore the hell of that one, in 6 seasons!

Here's the interview I mentioned above, by the way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5chCMRsEVo&t=15m20s



Any scenario involving a conflict between good guys and bad guys would have done the trick, really...



Did any part of Jack and Sayid's plan make sense to you? ^^
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What do you mean make sense?
 
Erigu said:
Didn't it strike you as utterly nonsensical? What were they hoping to accomplish and how, exactly?
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Eh, wasn't the best plan but
he was going to scout and then they meet up to find out about the surroundings for the trap. The whole smoke signal thing was stupid though, how that wouldn't be blatantly obvious to the others also is beyond me.

Season 3 has been kind of meh, hope it picks up.
I really don't give a shit that all the women on the show apparently cheated on all their husbands.
After being hyped up, it fell flat.
 
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
Eh, wasn't the best plan but
he was going to scout and then they meet up to find out about the surroundings for the trap.
Click to expand...
Based on what Michael told them about the location of the enemy camp. Michael who they know is lying to them. Because he couldn't possibly be that big a liar, c'mon, now.
And surely, they wouldn't set the trap on the way either.

The whole smoke signal thing was stupid though, how that wouldn't be blatantly obvious to the others also is beyond me.
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"They're expecting us to walk right into their trap? All right: we'll just pretend we didn't realize that and follow Michael anyway but Sayid will also go there on a boat! Should be more than enough! Element of surprise! Oh, also: smoke signal, so they'll know we're coming."
It makes so much sense on every level.

I also loved how Jack confronted Michael on the way anyway, and somehow convinced everybody to 1) let the Others they spotted go and 2) keep walking into the trap, because it's too late / they'd kill them if they went back / what the hell are those characters saying now I don't even.
And then, in a shocking twist, they fall in a trap. Damn, who could have seen that one coming. Jack is pissed at Michael, for some reason. Y'know, Jack, I don't think that's quite his fault anymore, at this point...

Man, when those writers want something to happen, nothing's too lazy...

Meanwhile, in the hatch, Locke and Desmond fuck things up because 1) Locke forgot all about the obviously extremely weird stuff he's witnessed so far (like, say, his freaking legs working again, to pick the most obvious example) and lost his faith because he arbitrarily decided to trust that one DHARMA orientation film over the other, and 2) Desmond couldn't remember how things went crazy that one time he failed to push the button until his flashback was told.

And that's season finale material.
 
Erigu said:
Based on what Michael told them about the location of the enemy camp. Michael who they know is lying to them. Because he couldn't possibly be that big a liar, c'mon, now.
And surely, they wouldn't set the trap on the way either.


"They're expecting us to walk right into their trap? All right: we'll just pretend we didn't realize that and follow Michael anyway but Sayid will also go there on a boat! Should be more than enough! Element of surprise! Oh, also: smoke signal, so they'll know we're coming."
It makes so much sense on every level.

I also loved how Jack confronted Michael on the way anyway, and somehow convinced everybody to 1) let the Others they spotted go and 2) keep walking into the trap, because it's too late / they'd kill them if they went back / what the hell are those characters saying now I don't even.
And then, in a shocking twist, they fall in a trap. Damn, who could have seen that one coming. Jack is pissed at Michael, for some reason. Y'know, Jack, I don't think that's quite his fault anymore, at this point...

Man, when those writers want something to happen, nothing's too lazy...

Meanwhile, in the hatch, Locke and Desmond fuck things up because 1) Locke forgot all about the obviously extremely weird stuff he's witnessed so far (like, say, his freaking legs working again, to pick the most obvious example) and lost his faith because he arbitrarily decided to trust that one DHARMA orientation film over the other, and 2) Desmond couldn't remember how things went crazy that one time he failed to push the button until his flashback was told.

And that's season finale material.
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LOL, don't disagree. It also bothers me that
EVERY FUCKING TIME they meet an other the other tells them they're not the enemy and they lower their gun and procede to be fucked up. I mean obviously after all the others have done, it's obviously smartest to just drop your weapon. Are they using the force or something to convince people?

It's a theme for most shows to give lazy explanations, it's one of the things that make tv shows frustrating. Movies are usually handled a little bit better but not always.
 
Ah yes, Jack's dimwitted plans. How I miss thee.

Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
Season 3 has been kind of meh, hope it picks up.
I really don't give a shit that all the women on the show apparently cheated on all their husbands.
After being hyped up, it fell flat.
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Early season 3 is definitely a drag.

Hang in there, it does eventually pick up. Big time.
 
You're wasting your time man. If you pick the lock on a Halliburton I will put you on my and fly us to L.A.

You better find yourself a runway daddy, because there's not a lock I can't pick.

What's he trying to do?

Pick the lock on a Halliburton.

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Good Luck.
 
Catalix said:
Early season 3 is definitely a drag.
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People say this, but I did enjoy all of the opening episodes. The scenes here are full of mindfucks such as
Kate and Ben's breakfast, the Losties building the runway, the Redsox footage and the whole surgery wtf
, lots of weird, small eerie moments. My only complaint with those episodes is that they perhaps focus on the wrong characters- many fan favourites are omitted a lot of screentime here.

The episodes that arrived after the holiday break and after 3.06 are a lot worse at both pacing and content, and it's not until mid season that the show really has that grand string of episodes that are unbeatable anywhere else throughout the show's history.

The second half of S3 and the whole of S4 is LOST in it's fucking peak. So much good stuff, hell of a journey.
 
S1 of Lost is the peak. Everything after that is decent and interesting, but not quite the same awesomeness.
Other than Season 6 cos the entire season, not just the final ep, is really shit. Bad writing, hokey storylines, really embracing being a silly sci-fi show to the extreme. Echh.
 
RichardAM said:
People say this, but I did enjoy all of the opening episodes. The scenes here are full of mindfucks such as
Kate and Ben's breakfast, the Losties building the runway, the Redsox footage and the whole surgery wtf
, lots of weird, small eerie moments. My only complaint with those episodes is that they perhaps focus on the wrong characters- many fan favourites are omitted a lot of screentime here.

The episodes that arrived after the holiday break and after 3.06 are a lot worse at both pacing and content, and it's not until mid season that the show really has that grand string of episodes that are unbeatable anywhere else throughout the show's history.

The second half of S3 and the whole of S4 is LOST in it's fucking peak. So much good stuff, hell of a journey.
Click to expand...

Through the Looking Glass and The Constant are easily the greatest moment in TV history.
Well other than Battlestar Galactica Exodus part 2
 
What? Did they seriously edit the recap to something that never happened in the show?
The woman sun shoots says she knows sun won't do it and is shocked but then in the preview for episode 4 it has her saying we're not the enemy but if you shoot me then that's what we'll become. She never said that....
 
RichardAM said:
People say this, but I did enjoy all of the opening episodes. The scenes here are full of mindfucks such as
Kate and Ben's breakfast, the Losties building the runway, the Redsox footage and the whole surgery wtf
, lots of weird, small eerie moments. My only complaint with those episodes is that they perhaps focus on the wrong characters- many fan favourites are omitted a lot of screentime here.

The episodes that arrived after the holiday break and after 3.06 are a lot worse at both pacing and content, and it's not until mid season that the show really has that grand string of episodes that are unbeatable anywhere else throughout the show's history.

The second half of S3 and the whole of S4 is LOST in it's fucking peak. So much good stuff, hell of a journey.
Click to expand...
For the most part I agree with you. I'm usually one of the few people who defends the
cage arc
as being "not as bad as people say". There's some elements of that period that I really enjoyed. I just don't agree that the immediate post-holiday break had worse paced, less interesting episodes. With the exception of SiaSL, I actually preferred that run.
"Not in Portland" already felt like a welcome breath of fresh air after the repetitive, claustrophobic, glacial, overly soapy atmosphere of the cage arc
.

But yeah, I think most of us can agree that second half S3 is god-tier, for sure.
 
Catalix said:
For the most part I agree with you. I'm usually one of the few people who defends the
cage arc
as being "not as bad as people say". There's some elements of that period that I really enjoyed. I just don't agree that the immediate post-holiday break had worse paced, less interesting episodes. With the exception of SiaSL, I actually preferred that run.
"Not in Portland" already felt like a welcome breath of fresh air after the repetitive, claustrophobic, glacial, overly soapy atmosphere of the cage arc
.

But yeah, I think most of us can agree that second half S3 is god-tier, for sure.
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yeah me too, I really loved the first 5 or 6 eps of s3 it helped that Jack Kate and Sawyer where my favorite characters at the the time
s1 is still most definitely the best had the best writing and acting some of the scenes with jack and john were fucking wonderfully acted.
 
neoism said:
yeah me too, I really loved the first 5 or 6 eps of s3 it helped that Jack Kate and Sawyer where my favorite characters at the the time
s1 is still most definitely the best had the best writing and acting some of the scenes with jack and john were fucking wonderfully acted.
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How can Mr. Eko not be one of your favorites? :(
 
Literally just finished marathoning LOST about an hour ago. Took about 2 weeks to get through (I've had nothing better to do).

Good stuff, man. Had an idea on the premise of the show, but didn't know any spoilers. What a ride.
 
Trick_GSF said:
Literally just finished marathoning LOST about an hour ago. Took about 2 weeks to get through (I've had nothing better to do).

Good stuff, man. Had an idea on the premise of the show, but didn't know any spoilers. What a ride.
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Good man.

How did it make you feel?
 
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