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LTTP: Final Fantasy XII

Crusader

Banned
I played up to the 20-hour mark, where I saved Princess Leia and use the win button against Darth Vader and escaped the Star Destroyer.

Of course, the problem there is that that's, like, the THIRD important thing to happen in the story. Listen, I can roll with slow-paced RPGs (I love the Dragon Quests, Final Fantasy VIII, etc.) but I can play through entire GAMES (some of them RPGs, some of them multiple times) through the time-space between ANYTHING of importance in FFXII, all bets are off.

And what happens between all that shit? Grind, grind, grind, grind, grind. Anything in a shop that's of any use is criminally overpriced, so get yer ass out there. Which isn't to dungeons where I've actually had to do multiple fucking runs just because my fucking level was too low. Oh what fun? I mean, except for the parts which you can just blow away using Quickenings. I killed a major boss just through one of the fuckers. Yes, I know FFVIII had the GF problem too, but it wasn't even close to being THIS broken. I also hear of bosses that can arbitrarily turn invincible for a limited period of time...not to mention that the game REALLY fucks you over unless you keep up with the overpowered Hunts. yay

And it's not like the battles are interesting either. Fuck you, Gambits. FFXII's fanboys jack off to this shit and extoll its virtues over the now-unplayable RPGs because you have to repeatedly hit X or some shit. Man, fuck that. At least those games MAKE you hit a button and show some actual signs of life, compared to this shit where you're playing it by fucking analog stick and it's not like Katamari Damacy or anything, where I can cool shit with just the sticks. Wonderful, assholes, it's a really wonderful game, about fucking walking.

And it's not like the locales are that interesting either. The dungeons are like less interesting versions of the shit from Phantasy Star Online, the same couple of corridors with different textures. Exploration is pretty-much a giant farce thanks to the randomized treasures and completely arbitrary way of getting the best weapon(s?) which makes the bullshit from the past few single-player FFs seem like masterfully made brain-teasers by comparison.

I used to give the game props for its artstyle at least...till I realized something. Unlike Final Fantasies of past, this game isn't really LIKE Star Wars; it IS Star Wars. Watch the fucking opening...and then pop in a DVD of Revenge of the Sith, holy fuck! George Lucas should be suing a mother fucker by now. Compare all the fucking towns (I've heard about the Archadian Senate btw) to the fucking movies. Sorry, Matsuno, but I already have Knights of the Old Republic kthx.

Oh yeah, the story is kinda irrelevant too and there's absolutely no urgency to the game whatsoever. Yeah, the lol evil empire is in ur country rapin ur culture, but not really. Laguna doesn't really take me as a particularly threatening villain. Maybe it's because I keep thinking he'll just get a leg cramp when I try to fight him, or maybe it's because he scores a 0.3 on the manliness scale (this is actually fairly impressive for an FF villain). Actually, in all those 20 hours there wasn't any real reason I felt I should be fighting the bad guys. I mean, I'm not saying make them a cliche but it seems Ashe was trying to get her throne back...because she could? Because the Archadians would make the Dalmascans pay more property taxes?

PS: Balthier is overrated. Yes, he's better than most of the characters as he's neither annoying (Vaan) or annoyingly vague (practically everyone else) but I've found much better Han Solo rip-offs everywhere, and when one such example I can pull out comes from fucking FIREFLY, your ass is in some serious shit.

I DID like Basch, though, whom I heard was originally gonna be the hero till the JP animu fanboys whined and kvetched. But maybe it's just as well, judging from Final Fantasy Tactics, he'll just be some child-molesting Catholic priest by the end of the game.

Fuck, even Sakimoto dropped the ball on this shit. Or maybe he didn't, as his soundtracks tend to fit the atmosphere of the game perfectly (check FFT or Gradius V for this). The game was epicly boring, so he made an epicly boring soundtrack. Shit, he even made Battle with Gilgamesh sound overly bombastic and a little dull, which is perversely impressive.

I can find hardly anything of substance that XII got even remotely right. Everywhere I turn, there's something that I look at, shake my head and wonder what kinda dope you have to be on to think this was anywhere even REMOTELY close to a good, fun idea.

In the name of full disclosure, I'm usually enamored with the unwieldly FFs that nobody else likes (FFVIII, X-2 too). I was expecting to enjoy XII immensely based on these grounds, especially since its the first FF in years that whose title didn't end in "Seven." But this has gotta be the single worst RPG I've ever played.

I never completed it and have recently sold my copy so I could preorder MGS4, which I'll probably like when I get to play it in 10 years.

But seriously, I haven't had a single regret about excising it from my collection, especially since the demonic chanting every night stopped since.

Fuck Yasumi Matsuno. I'm gonna fucking say it. He's a fucking hack. Final Fantasy Tactics was somehow fun if severely flawed, and Vagrant Story being unplayable may have been a fluke but FFXII lays that shit all for bear. And yes, I entirely blame him despite the departure shit because I've PLAYED Vagrant Story and realize he has a hard-on for making his games laughably bad. So fuck him, fuck his Ye Olde Englishe which is supposed to somehow make me think his bullshit is mature or at least well above the peasant masses and their silly animu RPGs, and fuck his sick, sorry, sad bullshit-ass games.

Or to put it more succinctly, I would rather perform cunnilingus on the rotting corpse of Ayn Rand, eating every last maggot in that thing while a silverback gorilla rapes me up the ass than ever, Ever, EVER play another second of Final Fantasy XII.
 
Or to put it more succinctly, I would rather perform cunnilingus on the rotting corpse of Ayn Rand, eating every last maggot in that thing while a silverback gorilla rapes me up the ass

p97YptX.png
 

antitrop

Member
I absolutely loved playing it, but the plot was incomprehensible towards the end. Not nearly in the same way that Final Fantasy XIII is completely broken, but the ending goal is still pretty obfuscated. I feel like the game has no proper end boss, which is unfortunate. Whatever that thing was felt like it came out of nowhere. When you think about the Final Fantasy franchise being known for ending boss fights like Kefka and Sephiroth, it's EXTREMELY disappointing.

Balthier and Fran are awesome, Basch is cool, rest of the cast was forgettable.

Overall one of the best RPGs on the PS2, I think. Better than FFX for the gameplay, in my opinion. It mostly plays itself, but I enjoyed setting up the strategies of the gambits and the graphics are easily top 3 on the entire system. I played it in 2008 on my PS3 and it looked impressive. Looks even more impressive at super high resolutions on PCSX2.

No option to invert the camera controls is criminal. Especially since the default and only way to control the camera is inverted (i.e., moving the analog stick left pans the camera to the right. Even after like 50 hours I still was not used to that, I fought with the camera literally the entire game, my brain would simply not accept that left is right).
 

Verelios

Member
Wow...that is...an extremely succinct post on why you don't like FFXII. I'd argue my point here but...a silver backed Gorilla? Really? Wow.

Let me go collect myself, and I'll rebut soon.
 

libregkd

Member
Wait, is this a re-post? The bit at the end about pre-ordering MGS4 and playing an FF game without the number 'Seven' in it makes me think so.
 
I absolutely loved playing it, but the plot was incomprehensible towards the end. Not nearly in the same way that Final Fantasy XIII is completely broken, but the ending goal is still pretty obfuscated. I feel like the game has no proper end boss, which is unfortunate. Whatever that thing was felt like it came out of nowhere. When you think about the Final Fantasy franchise being known for ending boss fights like Kefka and Sephiroth, it's EXTREMELY disappointing.

Balthier and Fran are awesome, rest of the cast was forgettable.

Overall one of the best RPGs on the PS2, I think. Better than FFX for the gameplay, in my opinion. It mostly plays itself, but I enjoyed setting up the strategies of the gambits and the graphics are easily top 3 on the entire system. I played it in 2008 on my PS3 and it looked impressive. Looks even more impressive at super high resolutions on PCSX2.

No option to invert the camera controls is criminal. Especially since the default and only way to control the camera is inverted (i.e., moving the analog stick left pans the camera to the right. Even after like 50 hours I still was not used to that, I fought with the camera literally the entire game, my brain would simply not accept that left is right).

The final boss fight was so anticlimactic (but the story never took off anyway so I suppose it doesn't matter). Every other FF game has a super villain to go up against your party of superheroes. But Vayne isn't a super villain. He's just the leader of an empire. And then we're in a fisticuffs match with him at the end. Against our party of battle hardened warriors. And I'm supposed to take that seriously? I'm pretty sure Vayne doesn't even know any of the characters except Ashe.
 

Grinchy

Banned
I do at least agree that the story segments were too spread out since all the sections you play through take very long periods of time. Remember going through the desert? If you are a collector/grinder, that shit took hours. There were many segments that took hours and then when it went back to telling the story, I had forgotten what I why I was doing any of the things I was doing.

I love the game though. I played it twice, and I did 120 hours on the first run and about 80 on the second.
 

Seda

Member
While I'm indifferent towards the gambit system, I loved the exploration, hunts, crafting, optional areas, questing, etc, basically all the non-battle gameplay - the supporting elements.

Dialogue was great but story did disappoint, that's not too important to me though.

Also, I figure more people would take your criticisms more seriously if you made your points without the screaming and excessive swearing.
 

Mxrz

Member
Wait, is this a re-post? The bit at the end about pre-ordering MGS4 and playing an FF game without the number 'Seven' in it makes me think so.

I'm so confused.

But FF12 is best FF. Ooooh, yeah. Moogles. Bunny chicks. Fun to actually play. Vest. Scarves, Star Wars. Its got it all. Everything after is doomed to failure for not being nearly as awesome.
 

antitrop

Member
Final Fantasy XII and Dragon Age are the natural evolutions of the classic RPG battle systems. I find it strange that some people normally praise DA:O and despises FFXII when they're basically the same.
Love 'em both. I think the Gambit system was a little bit better. Final Fantasy games always have amazing mechanics, even XIII. VIII is the only post-NES FF with terrible mechanics (Draw, Junction, GF), as far as I'm concerned.
 

kenjisalk

Member
That has GOT to be copypasta.

But hey, even if it isn't, I get not everyone liking Matsuno's sensibility. They aren't for everyone.

I do think that if you're going to call them unilaterally bad, you're a freaking madman and I'm going to completely dismiss anything you have to say in terms of game criticism.
 

antitrop

Member
I don't think it's copypasta, I think he just typo'd MGS4 instead of 5. I'm so bored I started Google searching sentences out of the post and I couldn't find anything that wasn't exactly this thread.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Final Fantasy XII and Dragon Age are the natural evolutions of the classic RPG battle systems. I find it strange that some people normally praise DA:O and despise FFXII when they're basically the same.

DA:O is more like a return to Infinity Engine PC games, or at least an attempt to get them to work on consoles. FFXII just borrowed some of those mechanics (intentionally or not) and put them in a classic JRPG rule set.
 

kenjisalk

Member
I don't think it's copypasta, I think he just typo'd MGS4 instead of 5. I'm so bored I started Google searching sentences out of the post and I couldn't find anything that wasn't exactly this thread.

Well then truly we live in a dark and unforgiving world. :S

DA:O is more like a return to Infinity Engine PC games, or at least an attempt to get them to work on consoles. FFXII just borrowed some of those mechanics (intentionally or not) and put them in a classic JRPG rule set.

To be fair, FFXII is almost identical combat-wise to Vagrant Story, so the framework was there a lot earlier. Can't comment on how close it is to the Infinity Engine games, but it didn't start with FFXII.
 

Shepard

Member
Love 'em both. I think the Gambit system was a little bit better. Final Fantasy games always have amazing mechanics, even XIII. VIII is the only post-NES FF with terrible mechanics (Draw, Junction, GF), as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah. Both are between my favorite games and I do agree that the gambit implementation in DA:O felt a little more "clunky", but imo, that's because FFXII went "all out" with it, while in DA:O was more of an optional thing.
DA:O is more like a return to Infinity Engine PC games, or at least an attempt to get them to work on consoles. FFXII just borrowed some of those mechanics (intentionally or not) and put them in a classic JRPG rule set.
The biggest difference is that FFXII was designed to be played with gambits, while leaving the "tactical pause" a bit in the background. In DA:O, tactical pause was in the foreground while gambits were the secondary scheme. The main thing this changes is the pacing and the need for strategic positioning, kinda depends on personal taste.
 

antitrop

Member
The biggest difference is that FFXII was designed to be played with gambits, while leaving the "tactical pause" a bit in the background. In DA:O, tactical pause was in the foreground while gambits were the secondary scheme. The main thing this changes is the pacing and the need for strategic positioning, kinda depends on personal taste.
I think it also greatly depends upon which platform you're playing Dragon Age on. I first played it on 360 and utilized the Tactics system often and relied upon it quite a bit. It was a lifesaver and I believe I used it to its full potential.

I replayed the game years later on PC and rarely used it at all. Just didn't need it. Pausing and quickly queuing up commands and orders with the mouse was so simple and effective. Mostly just used it for healing macros.
 

Shepard

Member
I think it also greatly depends upon which platform you're playing Dragon Age on. I first played it on 360 and utilized the Tactics system often and relied upon it quite a bit. It was a lifesaver and I believe I used it to its full potential.

I replayed the game years later on PC and rarely used it at all. Just didn't need it. Pausing and quickly queuing up commands and orders with the mouse was so simple and effective.

Makes sense, my only experience was with the PC version. Never really noticed how usefull the gambits could be when playing it with a gamepad, till now :p.
 

Jawmuncher

Member
FF12 sits on my shelf waiting to be played (or for an HD version to release)
One of these days I might get around to it. Has to be better than a gorilla.
 

antitrop

Member
FF12 sits on my shelf waiting to be played (or for an HD version to release)
One of these days I might get around to it. Has to be better than a gorilla.
Gorillas are cool, rape isn't very cool, but Final Fantasy XII is substantially better than what you get when you put those together.

Play it on PCSX2 on PC, it is the HD version.
 

Roto13

Member
Final Fantasy XII is the best 3D Final Fantasy, and one of the best games ever made, and everyone who disagrees is wrong and probably 15.
 

dokish

Banned
2005 account, so... seems legit?

Or to put it more succinctly, I would rather perform cunnilingus on the rotting corpse of Ayn Rand, eating every last maggot in that thing while a silverback gorilla rapes me up the ass than ever, Ever, EVER play another second of Final Fantasy XII.

Why Ayn Rand?
 
Final Fantasy XII is the best 3D Final Fantasy, and one of the best games ever made, and everyone who disagrees is wrong and probably 15.

I started to like 12 a lot more retrospectively after playing 13, but the game did have flaws.
Pacing, story, lack of compiling characters & sense of direction. This made the game feel like a MMO.

The non-linear exploration was great though.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.

I see no lies, bb.

Best combat system. Best character learning system (double so with Zodiac Job system), best sidequests (Hunts) in a Final Fantasy yet...

I started to like 12 a lot more retrospectively after playing 13, but the game did have flaws.
Pacing, story, lack of compiling characters & sense of direction.

This has more to do with Matsuno leaving half-way through the game the gamplay itself. Yeah, the story is kinda bad and falls apart half-way through. But you're not playing FFXII for the story. You're playing it for the gameplay which was a breath of fresh air from the rank and stale air that was coming from the bloated and rotted corpse of Final Fantasy.
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
The game gets better after you destroy the starship and save princess leia IMO. Those parts before that were uberboring.

Final Fantasy XII is the best 3D Final Fantasy, and one of the best games ever made, and everyone who disagrees is wrong and probably 15.

FFXII to me is barely memorable, none of the cutscenes were memorable at all (IMO), and the game didn't have this quirks like what almost every FF had. It was like an FF game trying to be a Western RPG, but still ended up being JRPG-ish. I don't love it but I don't despise it after playing it.

Heck even FFXIII had a memorable cutscene namely this one.

I prefer FFX though because FFXII doesn't have memorable stuff like these two. Sure the voice overs may seem terrible now but voice acting in video gaming was still early at that time.
 

antitrop

Member
Heck even FFXIII had a memorable cutscene namely this one.

I prefer FFX though because FFXII doesn't have memorable stuff like these two. Sure the voice overs may seem terrible now but voice acting in video gaming was still early at that time.

FFX's audio is fairly ambitious and groundbreaking for the time. Back when Square was the leader of the field, showing other RPG developers how it was supposed to be done.
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
FFX's audio is fairly ambitious and groundbreaking for the time. Back when Square was the leader of the field, showing other RPG developers how it was supposed to be done.

I say they're still the leader of that. All of FFXIII's NPCs (well... "NPC") had voices, I believe XIII-2 had fully voiced NPCs.

But there's something where FF is king at even until now: CGI (although maybe on par with Blizzard's).
 

Figboy79

Aftershock LA
I love FFXII. I still haven't beat it though, but that's because my PS3 died and I lost 30 hours of game time and just haven't gotten back to it. To each his own, but I personally loved it.
 
I actually just finished the game for the first time on Tuesday after trying a few times since 2006. Even though it took me so long to finish, I think it's one of the best FF's. The story and characters were kind of weak (although Balthier is still the best FF character), but the gameplay and world were great.

I'm on a kick to try and finish the few FF's I've never completed. I still have FF2, 3, and 13 to go. I've started FF2 but I'm not caring too much for it so far.
 

antitrop

Member
All I could think of is FF12 HD whenever I see a 12 thread. What are the chances of it actually happening?
Probable, but it could be at any time. It's been 12 years since FFX came out and they're just getting that one out...

In the mean time, if you have a have decent computer the game looks phenomenal on PCSX2 with Upscaling. Or a backwards-compatible PS3, like I did. Looks okay on that, but nowhere near as nice as an emulator.
 

Seda

Member
All I could think of is FF12 HD whenever I see a 12 thread. What are the chances of it actually happening?

ffdream.com , a French site, had an interview with Kitase (and Toriyama) not too long ago.

One of the questions reads

Will there be other remakes of Final Fantasy?

"... after working on FFX/X-2, we will consider more possibilities in the future"

(the question asked about FFVII as an example and Kitase said that would be more difficult.)

so yeah.
 
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