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LTTP: Halo Trilogy Campaigns
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3 > 2 > 1
I thought they got better and more refined with every iteration.
I still don't understand why people consider the first to be so massively superior. Its levels are so damn dull (yes Bungie, I get it, you guys know how to use copy and paste). Plus fewer weapons, no dual wielding, having to look for health packs (a plus for some people I guess, but I hate looking for health packs), and vehicle controls are much looser than the sequels.
The sequels have better AI and vastly improved level design, on top of stuff like more weapons and more vehicles.
I thought they got better and more refined with every iteration.
I still don't understand why people consider the first to be so massively superior. Its levels are so damn dull (yes Bungie, I get it, you guys know how to use copy and paste). Plus fewer weapons, no dual wielding, having to look for health packs (a plus for some people I guess, but I hate looking for health packs), and vehicle controls are much looser than the sequels.
The sequels have better AI and vastly improved level design, on top of stuff like more weapons and more vehicles.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Halo 1 was the best for its time, and is a great game. It has aged and ultimately would be the least I'd enjoy replaying (that may be a product of finishing it so many times already).
Halo 2 had the best narrative and story cinematics. We got to delve so much into Covenant culture and political structure. The Flood's complexity rocketed. Gravemind and the implications of a Flood super-intelligence scared the living daylights out of me, because frankly it seemed like an impossible task of defeating both Covenant & Flood.
It had some fantastic set pieces. The three-way battles make Gravemind and Uprising (the levels as MC on High Charity) some of my favourite levels in all of Halo. You get to fight WITH HUNTERS as the Arbiter FFS! The prision cell where you release all the Elites and Hunters is burnt into my mind with awesome.
It had a revolutionary console online system that other fps's have only matched recently.
It is terribly flawed. You can blame MS for setting the date forcing Bungie's hand, and you can blame Bungie for the lack of foresight.
For those that haven't listened to the Halo 2 cinematic commentary in the Cat Helmet Edition of Halo 3, so many levels were cut. The ending being what it was, was a difficult decision.
And it blew. I remember when I finished Halo 2. Sitting in my room confused and crestfallen as the credits rolled..
Halo 3 had the best singleplayer campaign has ever done from a gameplay standpoint. The dynamic battles are really really really fun. The AI is challenging and not on a "increase the health of the damage sponge" simplicity (not to say that doesn't contribute).
Narrativily... IT BLOWS. Miranda and Hood have some of the worst, cheesiest dialogue I've ever had the misfortune to hear in a Bungie game. Cinematics were cut to 3 minute flashes of occasional brilliance, far from the fangasms that Halo 2 induced.
Of course there are the terminals. For those that haven't read them and are interested in a fantastic tale of the end of the Forerunners go here. I promise you a good read.
Also, all that build with Cortana being rampant, and what do we get?
A short scene (that I really really really enjoy) where Cortana gets back up as if nothing happened. It's a great scene but... it's a jip!
Sorry if I rambled.. I do love me some Halo.
Halo 2 had the best narrative and story cinematics. We got to delve so much into Covenant culture and political structure. The Flood's complexity rocketed. Gravemind and the implications of a Flood super-intelligence scared the living daylights out of me, because frankly it seemed like an impossible task of defeating both Covenant & Flood.
It had some fantastic set pieces. The three-way battles make Gravemind and Uprising (the levels as MC on High Charity) some of my favourite levels in all of Halo. You get to fight WITH HUNTERS as the Arbiter FFS! The prision cell where you release all the Elites and Hunters is burnt into my mind with awesome.
It had a revolutionary console online system that other fps's have only matched recently.
It is terribly flawed. You can blame MS for setting the date forcing Bungie's hand, and you can blame Bungie for the lack of foresight.
For those that haven't listened to the Halo 2 cinematic commentary in the Cat Helmet Edition of Halo 3, so many levels were cut. The ending being what it was, was a difficult decision.
And it blew. I remember when I finished Halo 2. Sitting in my room confused and crestfallen as the credits rolled..
Halo 3 had the best singleplayer campaign has ever done from a gameplay standpoint. The dynamic battles are really really really fun. The AI is challenging and not on a "increase the health of the damage sponge" simplicity (not to say that doesn't contribute).
Narrativily... IT BLOWS. Miranda and Hood have some of the worst, cheesiest dialogue I've ever had the misfortune to hear in a Bungie game. Cinematics were cut to 3 minute flashes of occasional brilliance, far from the fangasms that Halo 2 induced.
Of course there are the terminals. For those that haven't read them and are interested in a fantastic tale of the end of the Forerunners go here. I promise you a good read.
Also, all that build with Cortana being rampant, and what do we get?
A short scene (that I really really really enjoy) where Cortana gets back up as if nothing happened. It's a great scene but... it's a jip!
Sorry if I rambled.. I do love me some Halo.
GitarooMan
Member
Coincidentally, I just finished the Halo 3 campaign for the first time. Played through on heroic, I loved it. I think the end sequence is fantastic, and there are so many great moments throughout. The difficulty on heroic was just right for me, enough challenge to make you think a bit but not too much (outside of a couple short parts) to frustrate. Finishing it makes me desparately want Halo 4, but Reach and ODST will do for now.
Generic said:
Wow. I have to say that these are some of the better Halo reviews I've ever read. While I don't agree 100% with everything, you make great arguments to back up your views. Additionally, you were able to frame many of the complaints I had with Halo 2 and Halo 3 perfectly.
For me, the original Halo will always be my favorite. It had a unique flavor that became slightly altered (for the worse) in the sequels and a continuity that made the world feel both believable AND alien (I feel that the massive levels and the repetitive interiors contributed to this, but that's for another day). I love Halo 2 and Halo 3 for different reasons (I also feel that Halo 3 is the pinnacle of Halo gameplay), but Combat Evolved brought be back into gaming.
Again, excellent reviews.
I just played the Halo series for the first time last October; got through all three games in about 13 days or so (I had played a little bit of Halo 1 multiplayer when it was new, including a single epic 3 hour CTF match, but that's it).
Fun series, and the big changes between games really stood out to me; Halo 2, though I think it's the weakest in the series now, was such a massive jump up from the first game in graphics, weapons, and presentation in general that I spent practically the first half of the game just excited to see what happened next, and the same thing happened with Halo 3. Hindsight being what it is, though, Halo 1 still impresses me the most, for the same reason I liked it back when it was new; it gave up a lot to the far more advanced PC FPS at the time, but dammit, the game is just fun. It is still just the most fun to play despite its flaws or the drastic technical and presentation improvements made in the later games.
While I had fun playing them, though, given about a month or so I really couldn't remember all that much about them. I had forgotten huge swaths of the story (though admittedly the story isn't a high point of the series anyway), for instance, and even now I probalby oculdn't tell you half of it.
Fun series, and the big changes between games really stood out to me; Halo 2, though I think it's the weakest in the series now, was such a massive jump up from the first game in graphics, weapons, and presentation in general that I spent practically the first half of the game just excited to see what happened next, and the same thing happened with Halo 3. Hindsight being what it is, though, Halo 1 still impresses me the most, for the same reason I liked it back when it was new; it gave up a lot to the far more advanced PC FPS at the time, but dammit, the game is just fun. It is still just the most fun to play despite its flaws or the drastic technical and presentation improvements made in the later games.
While I had fun playing them, though, given about a month or so I really couldn't remember all that much about them. I had forgotten huge swaths of the story (though admittedly the story isn't a high point of the series anyway), for instance, and even now I probalby oculdn't tell you half of it.
BattleMonkey
Member
Halo 1 was an amazing experience that none of the follow ups ever was able to match up too.
1 >> 3 >>>>>>>>> 2
Why is one better than three? Because it was amazng at the time. I'd never seen a console(or even PC I think at that time) have that level of detail in the graphics(You could read the writing on empty bullet casings!), quality AI, perfect controls, ect. Each level was great fun as a whole or on there own and the multiplayer was insanely fun.
After the shitfest 2 was, 3 was an improvement and there were some nice things about the game but it never had that 'wow' factor. The graphics were good, the AI was pretty average, the multiplayer was the same shit I'd been playing since 2001. There were a lot of areas and things in it I felt they just ripped right out of Halo 1(Several level areas, the ending driving bit) and just wasn't as good.
Why is one better than three? Because it was amazng at the time. I'd never seen a console(or even PC I think at that time) have that level of detail in the graphics(You could read the writing on empty bullet casings!), quality AI, perfect controls, ect. Each level was great fun as a whole or on there own and the multiplayer was insanely fun.
After the shitfest 2 was, 3 was an improvement and there were some nice things about the game but it never had that 'wow' factor. The graphics were good, the AI was pretty average, the multiplayer was the same shit I'd been playing since 2001. There were a lot of areas and things in it I felt they just ripped right out of Halo 1(Several level areas, the ending driving bit) and just wasn't as good.
Flachmatuch
Member
Halo 1 is about the only FPS (apart from old PC stuff like Doom and Quake and Hexen etc) that I played more than once. It's just completely brilliant. The checkpointing, weapons, the vehicles, and most importantly the awesome battle design (or AI or whatever people call it) were really good when I first played it. I didn't like either 2 or 3 as much, finished 2 twice but couldn't even bother finishing 3. So, from my point of view (not a shooter fan at all), 1 is by far the best. I bought it because everyone was saying it was so awesome, but I wasn't really interested in it, it's just that I couldn't stop playing after I started it. Of course for people who play online and complete the games several times on all difficulties etc, it's probably not the best of the series, but as a single-player game, compared to other games out at the same time, there's no contest imo.
Nemesis121
Member
Halo 1 great
Halo 2&3 total trash.
Bungie designed the first halo, then MS turned into garbage game, Halo 1 had a hardcore feel, MS halo is a Casual game for any nub to pick up and spray and pray.
Halo 2&3 total trash.
Bungie designed the first halo, then MS turned into garbage game, Halo 1 had a hardcore feel, MS halo is a Casual game for any nub to pick up and spray and pray.
The Librarian
Banned
Campaign:
1>3>>>>>>>>>>2
Why, for me, is Halo 1 the best (MP doesn't count, I judge games by their campaign)? Halo 1 had a sense of awe, mystery, and wonder that hasn't been reproduced on the same scale since. Halo 3 came close with its Ark missions (and the last level), but those missions didn't have the focus of most of the levels in Halo 1 had.
Halo 3 is definitely the most replayable of the three, though.
Two was basically a corridor shooter aside from some levels here and there. The potential for vehicle encounters were ruined most of the time with lock-on rockets. I don't really understand the OP's problem with the story in Halo 2.
For me:
Levels: 1>3>2
Gameplay: 3>1>2
Story: 2>1>3
Atmosphere: 1>3>2
Overall: 1>3>2
1>3>>>>>>>>>>2
Why, for me, is Halo 1 the best (MP doesn't count, I judge games by their campaign)? Halo 1 had a sense of awe, mystery, and wonder that hasn't been reproduced on the same scale since. Halo 3 came close with its Ark missions (and the last level), but those missions didn't have the focus of most of the levels in Halo 1 had.
Halo 3 is definitely the most replayable of the three, though.
Two was basically a corridor shooter aside from some levels here and there. The potential for vehicle encounters were ruined most of the time with lock-on rockets. I don't really understand the OP's problem with the story in Halo 2.
For me:
Levels: 1>3>2
Gameplay: 3>1>2
Story: 2>1>3
Atmosphere: 1>3>2
Overall: 1>3>2
You're going to have a bright future here.Nemesis121 said:
Kydd BlaZe
Member
This.soldat7 said:
2 & 3 jump around far too much, IMO. There really wasn't any focus to the narrative. It was all over the place. Combat Evolved just felt cohesive, and right.
Dax01 said:
Couldn't have said it any better, myself.
Future PhaZe
Member
Making the elites allies was the biggest mistake of the series.
Zoso said:
Hangar Bay 2 is glorious. I LOVE Cairo Station on Legendary, especially that part. Any problem in that area can be solved with careful application of the noob combo.
That's the best strategy. There's only a few places where you really need to fight to move on. And the end is just a full on sprint to the finish. It wasn't nearly as hard as I thought it was going to be when I started it.
The Librarian
Banned
As far as multiplayer goes:
3>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2 (haven't played enough of Halo 1 to rank it).
Halo 3 does have some problems with regards to multiplayer, but it is really leaps and bounds ahead of Halo 2. A lot of things in Halo 2's multiplayer were broken (plasma pistol, sword, BR, button combos), and Halo 3 fixes all of those.
The addition of equipment really mixes things up and gives Halo 3 a fresh feeling and the gameplay flows a lot better than Halo 2's did.
Going back and playing Halo 2 after a year's worth of playing Halo 3 only helps magnify Halo 2's issues and it leaves a bad aftertaste.
3>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2 (haven't played enough of Halo 1 to rank it).
Halo 3 does have some problems with regards to multiplayer, but it is really leaps and bounds ahead of Halo 2. A lot of things in Halo 2's multiplayer were broken (plasma pistol, sword, BR, button combos), and Halo 3 fixes all of those.
The addition of equipment really mixes things up and gives Halo 3 a fresh feeling and the gameplay flows a lot better than Halo 2's did.
Going back and playing Halo 2 after a year's worth of playing Halo 3 only helps magnify Halo 2's issues and it leaves a bad aftertaste.
Halo 1 for single player.
Halo 2 for multiplayer.
I disliked the approach Bungie took towards Halo 3. Could be described as a check list approach to developing games "welps are the levels big enough for people who cannot use a analog stick?" and this was pretty much confirmed by that Wired article about how they designed their levels. Anyway, Halo 3 started off pretty nicely but ultimately the story was weak and pretty wasteful (Cortana arc) and a few other factors. I was into Halo 3's mutiplayer for awhile but it grew stale and nothing was really strong enough to keep me in.
Halo 2 for multiplayer.
I disliked the approach Bungie took towards Halo 3. Could be described as a check list approach to developing games "welps are the levels big enough for people who cannot use a analog stick?" and this was pretty much confirmed by that Wired article about how they designed their levels. Anyway, Halo 3 started off pretty nicely but ultimately the story was weak and pretty wasteful (Cortana arc) and a few other factors. I was into Halo 3's mutiplayer for awhile but it grew stale and nothing was really strong enough to keep me in.
Diablohead
Member
The more I replay halo 3 the more I like having elites on the human's side but replaying halo 2 pc made me miss fighting them. There are parts in halo 3 where you fight elites as elites but that was once and it was also on a boring level.Spasm said:
Tylahedras
Banned
I read the wall of text.
I really didn't think much of 3 (single player), and I'd say it's because it lacks basically everything mentioned in his comments on Halo 1 and 2 that made those games good.
Where were the open levels that had a multitude of approaches? Where were the sleeping enemy stealth sections? Where were the vast desolate areas? Where is the plasma sword (which is my favorite weapon in the halo universe) You didn't have as wide a variety of enemies, and there were basically no moments when flood / covenant were together. The flying insects are the most annoying enemies ever.
Also the story really makes NO sense. Ok so the flood we established couldn't be stopped short of destroying the universe, but they can be cleared off earth with a small explosion? Huh? What about the humans that would have died when that massive thing blew up? I guess no one cares about them. Where was the Gravemind, or a boss fight with him? Why do they repeat the same scarab boss twice.
Why does the arbiter suck so much?
Why did they rip off the ending to the first game and do so much worse a job of it?
The weapon balancing is good, especially in multiplayer, but in singleplayer they don't utilize the arsenal very well, or give you a reason to vary your tactics. Also the vehicle use in 3 seemed way down from 2. And when I tried to take a ghost into a building with me and found an invisible wall that wasn't there in halo 2, that was an epic fail.
Where was the tank? Why do we only get to use the spartan cannon a couple times? I could go on and on, but I was so incredibly disappointed by halo 3's campaign it's amazing.
I really didn't think much of 3 (single player), and I'd say it's because it lacks basically everything mentioned in his comments on Halo 1 and 2 that made those games good.
Where were the open levels that had a multitude of approaches? Where were the sleeping enemy stealth sections? Where were the vast desolate areas? Where is the plasma sword (which is my favorite weapon in the halo universe) You didn't have as wide a variety of enemies, and there were basically no moments when flood / covenant were together. The flying insects are the most annoying enemies ever.
Also the story really makes NO sense. Ok so the flood we established couldn't be stopped short of destroying the universe, but they can be cleared off earth with a small explosion? Huh? What about the humans that would have died when that massive thing blew up? I guess no one cares about them. Where was the Gravemind, or a boss fight with him? Why do they repeat the same scarab boss twice.
Why does the arbiter suck so much?
Why did they rip off the ending to the first game and do so much worse a job of it?
The weapon balancing is good, especially in multiplayer, but in singleplayer they don't utilize the arsenal very well, or give you a reason to vary your tactics. Also the vehicle use in 3 seemed way down from 2. And when I tried to take a ghost into a building with me and found an invisible wall that wasn't there in halo 2, that was an epic fail.
Where was the tank? Why do we only get to use the spartan cannon a couple times? I could go on and on, but I was so incredibly disappointed by halo 3's campaign it's amazing.
Kydd BlaZe
Member
Lulz...FaZe!! Where u @, bro!!??Dax01 said:
I agree with you tho Dax, lol. My buddy FaZe just has a hard on for Halo 2's MP. Button combos & all *smh*
Dead Man Typing
Member
Halo 2 Prophet of Truth > Halo 3 Prophet of Truth
The change of voice really annoyed me. In fact, most of Halo 2's cutscenes are of a higher quality than Halo 3's. Not graphically, obviously, but the camera is closer in and the character's faces seem to move more. They're also full 16:9, while Halo 3 adds extra borders to give the director a wider image(and possibly a small performance enhancment).
The change of voice really annoyed me. In fact, most of Halo 2's cutscenes are of a higher quality than Halo 3's. Not graphically, obviously, but the camera is closer in and the character's faces seem to move more. They're also full 16:9, while Halo 3 adds extra borders to give the director a wider image(and possibly a small performance enhancment).
The Librarian
Banned
There was hardly any of this in Halo 2. Levels with a multitude of approaches? The Ark, The Covenant, and the Storm.Tylahedras said:
Vast desolate areas?
This is factually incorrect.
Halo 3
-Brutes
-Hunters
-Drones
-Jackals
-Grunts
-Human Flood
-Elite Flood
-Brute Flood
-Flood Infection From
-Flood Carrier Form
-Tank Flood Form
-Ranged Flood Form
-Stalker Flood Form
Halo 2
-Brutes
-Hunters
-Drones
-Jackals
-Grunts
-Human Flood
-Elite Flood
-Flood Infection From
-Flood Carrier Form
Halo 1
-Elites
-Hunters
-Jackals
-Grunts
-Human Flood
-Elite Flood
-Flood Infection From
-Flood Carrier Form
This is incorrect, unless you were being hyperbolic.
It isn't an explosion. Vadum glassed the entire city of Voi, containing the infection.
What massive thing that blows up?
He's the Flood.
Because it's fun, and it wouldn't make any sense for the Covenant to have only one Scarab at its disposal.
He doesn't.
They did a better job with the Warthog run in Halo 3. No timer, better controls for the Warthog, and it had a much bigger scope.
How is that a "way down" from Halo 2 when the problem is with the invisible wall, not the vehicle itself? Plus, you're trying to take a vehicle to a place where it's not suppose to go.
At bold: did you even play the game? And what's a Spartan Cannon?
And I bet you couldn't go "on and on."
The Wise Old Man
Member
I thought the cutscenes in Halo 2 were the weakest of the trilogy. Particularly in the later levels, the cutscenes did a poor job of explaining the geography of the game, i.e., where the scene that was taking place was situated. They were just kind of abstract scenes, when I wanted the shot to zoom out and frame exactly where everything was taking place. Show me the entire damned Covenant mothership, damnit. Maybe you can just chalk this rant up to me wanting to see more of the Halo universe.
Halo 3 was far and away my favorite of the trilogy. Nothing compares to that moment on Earth when you've beaten the covenant then the sky goes dark and the flood spaceship comes crashing to Earth and MC has to battle his way back the way he came. Just a great mix of solid story and core gameplay. Bungie knows their space opera.
Halo 3 was far and away my favorite of the trilogy. Nothing compares to that moment on Earth when you've beaten the covenant then the sky goes dark and the flood spaceship comes crashing to Earth and MC has to battle his way back the way he came. Just a great mix of solid story and core gameplay. Bungie knows their space opera.
sionyboy said:
The trick is to melee them. They die instantly ; )
Kritz said:
I can agree there, I much preferred Halo 1's style of keeping everything contained to one level. Halo 3 had level design good enough to make up for it, but I always prefer when a developer uses one level 10 different ways rather than 10 levels one way.
Sorry about that, I didn't mean to crash your party. You can post your thoughts here, though, I'd love to here what you have to say on the series (just please make the actual reviews a bit more complex than " * > * > * " because I really had enough of those)StoOgE said:Ah, I was going to start this thread once I finished Halo 3 next week.
soldat7 said:
Thank you. I really appreciate comments like these because it took a damn long time to play through all the games, write the reviews, play through them again to make sure I hit all the points I wanted to, refine the reviews, play some more just in case, and then do the final editing. I like that atleast someone appreciates the work I put into this. Really, from the comments that go on, I wonder how many of these people actually read the reviews
And as I said, I can completely understand why someone would like Halo 1 more than 3. Not only was it unique when it came out, giving players a genuine sense of awe and wonder, it's still unique when directly compared to Halo 2 and 3, though I disagree in that the repetition made the environments alien. Not to mention the general mystique and wonder of Halo 1 while everything is explained away in Halo 2/3.
Sorry you feel that way, but as I said before, Halo 3's value lies within it's replayability. I really recommend you try it again, just for the hell of it, and try to approach situations differently or one a higher difficulty. I thought it was average as hell as well until I did those things.Flachmatuch said:
Dax01 said:
Well, let me expand. My problem with it is that a lot of it just doesn't make any goddamn sense. I already mentioned how it made no sense for Truth to kill off either Mercy or Regret, nor did it make any sense to replace the Brutes with Elites. They made a completely unnecessary enemy, when they could have made themselves much stronger by accepting both. It was very stupid to betray the Arbitor especially since he is as good as Master Chief, clearly stronger than any Brutes, completely loyal, and a significant political figure in the Covenant.
Moreso, we get scenes like these.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DixNcMDh7rA
Look the Heretic leader is cornered and then tries to plea with the Arbiter. He tries to get him to listen to what he knows. And...the Arbiter actaully listens! In fact, he is the one who asks him what drove him to this behavior. Then the Oracle comes in and explains that he is gladly willing to teach the Arbiter the truth. Then the heretic leader shoots him. Wait, wut? He is a clear way to prove his case without any violence, and he attacks him? What for?
These plotpoints that make absolutely no sense are what makes the story laughable. I can see what they are going for, but the execution of the entire Halo 2 story is horribly flawed. Which is why I'm so confused as to why so many people are crediting it as the best story. I guess I'd consider Halo 1's story the best because it was integral (while Halo 3's feels rushed and insignificant), but subtle and coherent (while Halo 2's made no damn sense whatsoever but tried to act as if it was incredible).
The Wise Old Man said:
DAMMIT, I knew I forgot to mention something in my reviews. It's been bugging me for a while. Yes, another thing about Halo 3 that really pisses me off is that so many awesome scenes are wasted. I didn't even know when I got on the Ark the TWO times through because they never explicitly showed the entirety of the Ark as we jumped on it. Same with the end of Crow's Nest, we get this huge buildup about this bomb, and all we see are a few flames when we go down an elevator. And lets not forget the end of the last level where the ring is JUST about to blow up....then Cheif blocks the view. Choreography could have definitely been better.
What Dax said. Really, a lot of your complaints have no ground. Sorry.Tylahedras said:
Thank you! Someone finally agrees with me :lolGeneric said:
I've been shaking my head every time someone credits Halo 2's story as the best ever since it was released. The thing was utter shit.
What's even worse is that some of the cutscenes weren't even fully animated (not to mention the pop in). Don't tell me I'm the only one who remembers the Grunt that floats away when the Chief teleports to High Charity. The game was so clearly rough and unfinished I felt like I was playing a failed fan project or something.
BrokenSymmetry
Member
Dark FaZe said:
Yes, the elites were the best and most interesting enemies I've ever fought in any game. Hated the brutes.
So 1 > 2 > 3.
Halo 2's gameplay is the pinacle of the series, IMO. Dual wielding was useful and there was a good balance of dual wielding and mid/long range combat. Bungle ruined close-quarter combat in Halo 3 in both campaign and multiplayer.KevinCow said:
Halo Combat Evolved still has the best campaign. The story may not be the best of the series, that honor falls to Halo 2, but it has a mystism around the game. It works for different reasons than the story in Halo 2 worked. Halo 3's story was an abomination and whoever wrote it should be ashamed of themselves. Somehow, it took the worst aspects of both games and combined them together.
The reason a lot of people prefer Halo Combat Evolved's campaign is because of its memorable levels like Halo, Assault on the Control Room and Two Betrayals. Even Library is nowhere near as bad as the clusterfuck that are Cortana and Halo in Halo 3.
a) Oh come the fuck on. Undiminished, unshared power? Triumvirates aren't exactly stable when one their members would like to be the one calling all of the shots. And that's exactly what the Halo 2 Truth was doing, shouting over the other Prophets and standing aside as they fell to his enemies.Generic said:
b) Uh, yes it did. The Prophets and the Elites had a highly turbulent past, and there was reason to believe that the Elites were not as committed to the Great Journey (The Heretic movement and whatnot) as they should have been. The Brutes were much more dogmatic and simply controlled. A better race for the task with less baggage.
c) "Were it so easy". Brutes and Elites have never tolerated each other very well, either race wouldn't fill that "military/guardian" niche without trying to dominate it.
d) Completely loyal indeed, but not really a significant political figure anymore after the opening events of Halo 2. He was branded with the Mark of Shame and removed from all of his commands and sent on suicide missions. As far as the Covenant was concerned, he was dead already.
Botolf said:
A. Except it seemed Truth had all the power at the Covenant in his hands anyway. Who did Regret come begging for help when he fucked up? Who was Mercy trying to convince to sentence the Arbitor to death his way, rather than just executing the sentence himself? Who did the Brutes listen to when Mercy fell and cried for help?
B.There was reason that CERTAIN elites were not as commited. Others clearly were, like the Arbiter, which could be plainly seen. But fine, I'll give you that, as politicians tend to be paranoid.
C. That would have only been to the benefit of Truth. The Elites and Brutes would be constantly working to one up, which would have made it easier for Truth to lie, as they would have been distracted.
D. Very well, then he was an important religious and historical figure. It was the Arbiter that tamed the Hunters and quelled the Grunt rebellion. While Thel Vadam himself may have been dead, the Arbiter lived and was a symbol of strength and unity. To betray him like that would only hurt them.
AltogetherAndrews
Member
3 was a hell of a lot better than the travesty that was Halo 2, but it suffers from some seriously cringe worthy writing, a problem that isn't helped much by the incredibly goofy looking human characters. Also, the Cortana level is a serious contender for all time worst level in any game, ever. How this managed to pass by critics relatively unscathed is a mystery.
A) He was powerful and influential before, but he was the sole voice of the Covenant after the other Prophets were dead. He no longer had to consult or listen to anyone else, the entire empire was his to bend to his fancy. And he did it all without eliminating his competitors in a manner that would cast doubt on his "holiness" or purity. He allowed Regret to shame himself with a botched invasion of Earth, then he pulled back the rescuers that might have saved him from the "Demon". It was the same with Mercy, he let him die because it simplified things for him. It might even be that he allowed Tartarus, the mighty Brute Chieftain to fail, for as soon as he dispatched him to Delta Halo, he left for Earth in search of the Ark. Lesser chieftains likely rose to take Tartarus's place, but they would be weaker and easier to manipulate.Generic said:
B) That paranoia extended further than the Heretics, he and others doubted the Elite conviction, the entire species.
C) Not necessarily. The last time species of the Covenant competed aggressively, they found themselves wrapped up in rebellions and destructive civil wars. Truth's best option was to pick one race to handle military leadership and guardianship of the Great Journey, having two would lead to many grave problems.
D) An Arbiter did those things, yes, but not this one. The majority of the populace merely wanted this Arbiter to be executed and have his guts paraded through the streets of High Charity.
Halo is most like the Matrix movie trilogy to me. The first one was great and hinted at a ton of potential for the sequels. The sequels were mediocre and killed any interest I had in the series or greater story.
I still feel like a sucker for buying into the Halo 3 hype. At least I got 30 or 40 bucks for it back in trade in, so I only really lost 20 or so to Microsoft's hype train. It won't happen again, though.
I still feel like a sucker for buying into the Halo 3 hype. At least I got 30 or 40 bucks for it back in trade in, so I only really lost 20 or so to Microsoft's hype train. It won't happen again, though.
Botolf said:
A) The very fact that he could do those things without sullying his 'purity' shows just how much he shared his power. He pulls the rescuers away and blatantly tells his militant commander to let the second holiest Covenant member die right in front of him. Again, he has the entire Covenant wrapped around his finger, he has no need to kill off the rest of them. It's not like he was exactly subtle about these actions, you know.
B) That logic is as faulty as any prejudice is, but as I said, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that Truth hated the Elites.
C) Because things turned out so damn well for him this way, right? He effectively started his own civil war for no reason. Getting them to work together, yeah, that would be nigh impossible, but have them directly compete, give the Elites a chance to redeem themselves and the Brutes to prove themselves, and both sides will be working 3 times as hard to try to appease to Truth better.
D) And what of the other Arbitors? The only other one we know of is the insane one who killed his friends iirc from Halo Wars, but he was still incredibly respected. As I said the Arbiter is a symbol, and as a symbol alone, Thel Vadam wielded great political power. Just look what happened when the Elites were betrayed, the Hunters and Grunts both came to help him out (well, the grunts did it partly out of fear, but they still allied themselves with him when he called for help). Betraying the Arbiter like that was retarded when he has that much influence.
SecretBonusPoint
Banned
With each subsequent game it felt like Bungie put less and less effort into SP campaign. This is partially due to Halo 1 being one of those slow-cooked games that went through many iterations before becoming final while Halo 2 and 3 were rushed out to meet the ravenous demand for MOAR HALOEZ.
Halo 2, outside of it's MP which is what most people stick around with the series for, was a complete embarrassment. What happened with the development of it was pretty damning of Bungie's development ability. The entirely rigged falsity that was the E3 Playthrough Demo before getting back to the studio and having to start entirely from scratch was ridiculous. The game had none of the first's wide open and interesting maps and ended on the bluest balls of a cliffhanger in recent memory. Fingers of blame pointed in every direction, the unspoken consensus was that Microsoft forced them to release the game before they wanted, having to cut so much content out. 11 out of 10 indeed.
Halo 3 was supposed to rectify that, the end to the trilogy and with a longer development time. Except, bar some great open levels such as The Covenant, it didn't. It felt just as rushed, just as short as ever. The game peaked on the aforementioned Island assault in The Covenant before some hum-drum levels afterwards with the appalling Cortana alien-rectum maze and an awful attempt to ape the Halo 1 ending sequence (Its set on a Halo in Alpha stage in the truest sense, thats why it looks and plays like youre playing something from the game's Alpha). Over-promising on the graphics as per Bungie tradition with the first trailer and some awful IQ and last generation animation and modelling in the end. To see painted static art used in cutscenes towards the end when Bungie was bragging about the game being content complete and ready to ship months before launch sealed my ranking of Bungie as an incompetent arrogant development house.
Theyve obviously crafted a great multiplayer FPS and thats where most of their attention and focus is really so good on them for seizing that market. But as a Single Player game developer , be it because of the lost driving force of talent since Halo 1 or just poor management, they just aren't very good at all and are massively overrated.
Halo 2, outside of it's MP which is what most people stick around with the series for, was a complete embarrassment. What happened with the development of it was pretty damning of Bungie's development ability. The entirely rigged falsity that was the E3 Playthrough Demo before getting back to the studio and having to start entirely from scratch was ridiculous. The game had none of the first's wide open and interesting maps and ended on the bluest balls of a cliffhanger in recent memory. Fingers of blame pointed in every direction, the unspoken consensus was that Microsoft forced them to release the game before they wanted, having to cut so much content out. 11 out of 10 indeed.
Halo 3 was supposed to rectify that, the end to the trilogy and with a longer development time. Except, bar some great open levels such as The Covenant, it didn't. It felt just as rushed, just as short as ever. The game peaked on the aforementioned Island assault in The Covenant before some hum-drum levels afterwards with the appalling Cortana alien-rectum maze and an awful attempt to ape the Halo 1 ending sequence (Its set on a Halo in Alpha stage in the truest sense, thats why it looks and plays like youre playing something from the game's Alpha). Over-promising on the graphics as per Bungie tradition with the first trailer and some awful IQ and last generation animation and modelling in the end. To see painted static art used in cutscenes towards the end when Bungie was bragging about the game being content complete and ready to ship months before launch sealed my ranking of Bungie as an incompetent arrogant development house.
Theyve obviously crafted a great multiplayer FPS and thats where most of their attention and focus is really so good on them for seizing that market. But as a Single Player game developer , be it because of the lost driving force of talent since Halo 1 or just poor management, they just aren't very good at all and are massively overrated.
I have no idea why I bothered, but I managed to play through all games, in the order 2-3-1... ended up liking 3, apart from the last few levels, the best out of all of them. Halo 1 and 2 felt way too repetitive with their copy-paste level designs and lots of filler.... H3 was a much more streamlined experience, with a greater variety of weapons. Don't know if I will bother with ODST, at least not for a while.
Awesome thread, love the series so for me 3>1>2> most every other console fps...
I would like to get into further discussion, but the one thing that I really wanted to bring up was the idea that Bungie had with H2, and failed to execute correctly with the arbiter. Such a wasted opportunity.
But as I don't really read any gaming books I would like to know if anyone got into that storyline in more depth in the books?
I would like to get into further discussion, but the one thing that I really wanted to bring up was the idea that Bungie had with H2, and failed to execute correctly with the arbiter. Such a wasted opportunity.
But as I don't really read any gaming books I would like to know if anyone got into that storyline in more depth in the books?
a.wd said:Awesome thread, love the series so for me 3>1>2> most every other console fps...
I would like to get into further discussion, but the one thing that I really wanted to bring up was the idea that Bungie had with H2, and failed to execute correctly with the arbiter. Such a wasted opportunity.
But as I don't really read any gaming books I would like to know if anyone got into that storyline in more depth in the books?
The Cole Protocol book has some extensive history on the Arbiter.
Basically this. 3 felt like a "safe" lackluster game. I enjoyed 2 for the most part, and was in awe of the first one. It's just been slowly going downhill with each sequel it seems. One of the reasons why I don't care for the series as much as I use to. I mean, I like the lore, but that sure as hell isn't due to the game(s), but rather the outside expansions(books). Hell, even Halo Wars managed to have a more engaging SP to me, mostly due the cutscenes, than 3 did.Son of Godzilla said:
A) He has a great deal of influence in Halo 2, but he doesn't "have the whole Covenant wrapped around his finger". He is the foremost Prophet, certainly, but he is also indebted to the other Prophets for the fact that he is where he is, and he cannot just actively subvert the other Prophets when the cameras are rolling, so to speak. That'd be political suicide. The secrets of the deaths of Regret and Mercy would be only known to a few individuals, that's subtle enough to keep it quiet. Who'd be stupid enough to start talking about the misdeeds of the only Prophet left? If there was little chance on a fair trial when all three were around, you'd have absolutely no chance with Truth left as supreme ruler. Without the other two, he'd be able to do everything he set his mind to, and the populace wouldn't see any reason to stop him from doing so. Another thing that should be noted is that one of the Prophets was dragged into the triumvirate because he was privy to secret information concerning the humans, that they were actually descendants of the Forerunners (he became Mercy). The only other who knew this information was Truth. The death of Mercy served an additional service to Truth in keeping this potentially catastrophic bit of information quiet. The deaths of Regret and Mercy granted Truth many boons indeed.Generic said:
B) Aight.
C) The Brutes and Elites weren't competing schoolchildren, they were highly militaristic races that barely tolerated the other's presence in the Covenant itself. They feuded and killed each other at the best of times, making them compete for guardianship of the Great Journey would be just asking for them to start the civil war anyway.
D) The Arbiter from Halo Wars might have been respected, but the Arbiter from Halo 2 onwards sure as hell wasn't, and it follows that he held little influence over the Covenant as a whole. He earned some respect back in his own kind, but that only earned him some Elite allies at first and even after the civil war began, he didn't approach anything like a command or being a figurehead. To Truth, he was useful in his role of scattering the Heretics, and not much farther. Having Tartarus push the Arbiter into a seemingly endless Forerunner shaft was a neat and tidy way of closing his dealings with the Arbiter, as powerful and potentially volatile as he was. If it was not for the Gravemind intervention, it would have ended there and Truth wouldn't ever hear from the Arbiter again.
The Librarian
Banned
Botolf said:
Also, Regret wasn't asking for mercy, he issued an apology to Truth and Mercy for "jumping the gun" and going to Earth.
Generic said:
Um, to kill the Arbiter and get away? The station was in free fall, and he had to kill the Arbiter before he could leave the station. Rather that than try and waste hours convincing the Arbiter that everything he believes in is wrong (getting them both killed in the process).
Poohblaster
Member
Exarchos said:
QFT
Botolf said:
A) I disagree that this could be kept quite, especially the workings behind the death of Regret. Quite a few people knew about that, oh like...THE ENTIRE ALIEN FLEET THAT WAS SENT TO RESCUE HIM?! And honestly, Truth didn't take any measures so that the Brutes would keep quite, so I have no idea how the secret of Mercy's death would be kept secret. Also, the only prophets I've seen that have any sway over him was the council, while Mercy and Regret just sat back and did whatever Truth told them to do. While there were advantages of being the one prophet left, I cannot imagine they would outweigh the deep blow to moral and I still don't understand how the covenant would not find out what he did to Mercy and Regret, which would have weighed down on him...except they didn't really, they were sorta forgotten about, which makes no sense.
C) That's because they were TOLD to tolerate each other and get along. Give them a way to compete against each other and they'd go at it enthusiastically. Maybe they wouldn't LIKE each other, but that doesn't mean that they would refuse an opportunity to prove the other one inferior. This sort of attitude applies to general humanity and I don't see why 2 cocky, skilled races wouldn't go at it like school children on the ball court. People who would normally not stand in each other's presence have no problem kicking their ass in a fair game of something. At the very least, this option would be the much safer and more beneficial if it worked than cutting off their oldest and strongest of allies, who took a deal of grunts and hunters with them.
D) You're right, he wasn't respected at first, but that changed as soon as the end of the first mission when he offered to cut the cables and elites went on to say they will not forget him. And if having the Hunters and Grunts betray the Covenant and join the Arbiter just as soon as the Elites were betrayed political power, I don't know what is. Once again, the Arbiter would have been a very powerful political symbol and been capable of much more than taking out some heretic trash
Dax01 said:
Another thing I don't quite understand. The station was in freefall, but there was no change in gravity up top. Also, the station had been falling for about 20 minutes by the time the Arbitor got to the Heretic Leader. So, yeah, that entire sequence didn't make sense at all.
And anyway, it wouldn't have taken hours, just ask Spark what Halo's purpose is. That's what happened to him in the gravemind moment.
Except he wasn't, he just got the info during the gravemind incident, and was convinced by that.Botolf said:
Yes, and I maintain that Truth allowed the entire invasion to go ahead because he knew that it was insufficient to get the job done, it would fail and Regret's image would suffer.Dax01 said:
Good points, and it's entirely logical to suggest that the Heretic leader could not have expected any Arbiter to have stayed and listened to reason. This Arbiter would have attacked anyway, he was only convinced in the eleventh hour and by extraordinary events.
The Librarian
Banned
Generic said:
It's a game, dude, and there's such a thing called artificial gravity.
To convince him and turn to the Heretic leader's side? It wouldn't have taken a short amount of time.
It made him curious, it filled him with doubt, but it didn't convince him.
The Librarian
Banned
The fleet wasn't there to rescue Regret. As you can tell from the cutscene, the building was destroyed. It was either an attempt to get rid of Regret, kill the Chief, or both.Generic said:
Truth would just tell the Brutes who saw Mercy getting killed by the Flood infection form to be silent. "The Great Journey waits for no one."
The Elites in the Council were murdered by the Brutes. After that, it was full on civil war.
One race that is completely loyal is better than two trying to claw at each other trying to prove their superiority.