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[leroidys]

So first off, my history with the series. I played through the original Paper Mario on 64 when it came out, briefly played Super Paper Mario before ditching it on Wii, and then earlier this month I finished my playthrough of TTYD. I really enjoyed 64 and TTYD, though I didn't quite find myself comprehending where the superlative praise comes from for TTYD.

I feel the need to preface this LTTP thread with that, because apparently fans of the series think that sticker star is perhaps the worst game that Intelligent Systems have ever released.

To me though... it's one of the most fun games I've played in a long, long time. I've just beaten the first "world", and am enjoying every second of it. The battle system is very different from TTYD, but the core is mostly intact. And it works really well! At first I thought that making you use consumable items to attack was annoying and idiotic, but it actually keeps the battle system very fresh. You inevitably have a different combination of stickers for every encounter, and always have to improvise a strategy. In TTYD, I wasn't 10 hours in before I had the optimal system worked out for every single class of enemy, and the next ~30 hours just felt like going through the motions.

Leveling up and XP is gone, but let's be honest, it was a complete non-factor in TTYD as well. XP from enemies dropped off so fast it was basically impossible to overlevel, and your partners didn't get XP at all. The amazing badge system is gone, however, which is an even bigger loss than partners.

People complained about the complete lack of humor and character in this game, but i still found it very much intact. The only difference is that there's SO much less. After just coming off of TTYD (and experiencing the horrors of SPM), it's quite refreshing.

The graphics look absolutely beautiful on 3DS, and the paper-ness of the world is MUCH better realized than ever before. One thing that I'm neutral on is that the game is much more Mario than any other in the series, except maybe the first. TTYD and SPM felt more like "palette swap mascot RPG", whereas this is the first one since 64 that feels like a Mario game through and through. It was fun to get IS' more original take on a game world.

3DS has been a scizophrenic mess of fantastic return-to-form titles (Kid Icarus, LBW, SM3DL, Kirby Triple Deluxe), and huge misses (Yoshi's NI, Dream Team, Fire Emblem, NSMB2, Bravely Default). If you had asked me a week ago I would have confidently stuck it in the latter camp based on the internet-consensus

Spoiler

lol

, but unless it gets drastically worse, I'm going to remember it as one of the best games on the system.

TL;DR - Everyone said this game sucks but I like it.

 

[Qblivion]

and huge misses (Yoshi's NI, Dream Team, Fire Emblem, NSMB2, Bravely Default)

No.

Also, people who hate PMSS hate because it isn't an rpg. It is an adventure/puzzle game.

 

[Marjar]

I liked it at first too. Then I realized that battling is practically pointless, boss fights were horrible guessing games, and there's barely any humor left in the game.

Sticker Star isn't really a Paper Mario game. It's more like a shitty point and click adventure game disguised as a Paper Mario game.

And why I dislike it isn't just because it's not Paper Mario. It's because it's just horribly designed.

 

[Enforced]

It's ok game. dat normal battle theme though. So catchy.

 

[Mandelbo]

I got to around the same point you did in SS, but it didn't leave quite the same impression on me. The main issue for me, at least, isn't the battle system. That by itself is perfectly fine; the problem comes from the fact that there isn't really any reason to fight enemies that aren't bosses.

Because EXP and badges were stripped out, the only reward for winning battles are coins, and the only thing you can get with coins are stickers, which are only of use in battle. Compounded with the fact that there are coins in the overworld too, why would you use your stickers on the weaker enemies when all you're going to get is money to replace the stickers you just used? The whole system seems very flawed to me.

 

[Roto13]

Ugh, finally, someone who isn't insane and can appreciate awesome games.

 

[Marjar]

It's ok game. dat normal battle theme though. So catchy.

The music is one of the few things in the game that is good. I'll give it that.

 

[ReyVGM]

3DS has been a scizophrenic mess of fantastic return-to-form titles (Kid Icarus, LBW, SM3DL, Kirby Triple Deluxe), and huge misses (Yoshi's NI, Dream Team, Fire Emblem, NSMB2, Bravely Default). If you had asked me a week ago I would have confidently stuck it in the latter camp based on the internet-consensus

Spoiler

lol

, but unless it gets drastically worse, I'm going to remember it as one of the best games on the system.

HUGE misses? NSMB2, Bravely and Fire Emblem? Are you just being counter-culture with those games or something?

 

[leroidys]

It's ok game. dat normal battle theme though. So catchy.

Ah yeah, totally forgot to mention that the music is great so far. Not as funky as TTYD though. It's like if somebody was making a soundtrack for a NSMB game but actually tried to make it good.

HUGE misses? NSMB2, Bravely and Fire Emblem? Are you just being counter-culture with those games or something?

No, I thought that they were legitimately bad games. Actually Fire Emblem probably qualifies as a "good game", but it ruined a lot of the best aspects of the gameplay, so I found it very disappointing. That's all for another thread though.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

The game was god-awful and I hated myself for playing it.

Bring back 64/TYD mechanics!

 

[bon]

It's the Mario adventure game I didn't know I wanted.

 

[sheaaaa]

One of the most underrated games of the generation. I didn't need experience from battles because the fights were inherently fun. Add a great soundtrack and levels that tried something new and interesting with each one and you have a great game.

A huge amount of criticism here came because people thought it was going to be something it was not. That's not the game's fault.

I liked it at first too. Then I realized that battling is practically pointless, boss fights were horrible guessing games, and there's barely any humor left in the game.

Boss fights were guessing games, I'll concede, but barely any humour? I'll leave this from Eurogamer's review:

Whichever way you look at it, Mario's universe is a weird one, and Sticker Star's diamond-sharp script and scenarios deliver laughs by the truckload. There's the 'Hit it or Snifit!' game show, featuring whack-a-mole staffed by the work experience Snifits. There's a Goat sticker you can use to chew up paper enemies into little balls. There are Sombrero-wearing Shyguys that gee up their mates with swift guitar-playing. At one point, Birdo swings in and out of the screen while singing a little ditty about how it doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman.

 

[Nosgoroth]

You're not crazy, OP, I loved it too, and I'm known for being not-crazy.

But seriously, yes, it wasn't a Paper Mario in the PM1/TTYD sense (and I still want a new one of that type) but it was a very fun game in its own right.

 

[Nealuigi]

3DS has been a schizophrenic mess of fantastic return-to-form titles (Kid Icarus, LBW, SM3DL, Kirby Triple Deluxe), and huge misses (Yoshi's NI, Dream Team, Fire Emblem, NSMB2, Bravely Default).

Spoiler

lol

, but unless it gets drastically worse, I'm going to remember it as one of the best games on the system.

1. Fire Emblem a huge miss?

2, The biggest reason people loved the Paper Mario games were that they were great RPGs and had fantastic writing with new and interesting characters. But the game is only a silent Mario protagonist for the most part and the battle system that was super deep and interesting in the older games (until Super Paper Mario) is almost all gone. The game becomes either a lot of useless fights that waste your stickers because you have to use them, or a run at the boss where you don't beetle enemies. I will say that I enjoyed the game until the end of World 3 and then realized that I never fought things so I had the best stickers for boss battles and even then I didn't need to use them.

3.The biggest thing to me is that the Paper Mario games were well designed RPGs that were well loved for the reasons that Chrono Trigger is loved, but in the last two they have started to lose that and Sticker Star seems to be a complete undoing of the previous games.

 

[leroidys]

1. Fire Emblem a huge miss?

2, The biggest reason people loved the Paper Mario games were that they were great RPGs and had fantastic writing with new and interesting characters. But the game is only a silent Mario protagonist for the most part and the battle system that was super deep and interesting in the older games (until Super Paper Mario) is almost all gone. The game becomes either a lot of useless fights that waste your stickers because you have to use them, or a run at the boss where you don't beetle enemies. I will say that I enjoyed the game until the end of World 3 and then realized that I never fought things so I had the best stickers for boss battles and even then I didn't need to use them.

3.The biggest thing to me is that the Paper Mario games were well designed RPGs that were well loved for the reasons that Chrono Trigger is loved, but in the last two they have started to lose that and Sticker Star seems to be a complete undoing of the previous games.

Fire Emblem had great production values and looked fantastic. Most of the strategy and careful balance of the series was stripped out, even playing through it on hard. It became more of a run-of-the-mill min-maxing sRPG where you grab your strongest dudes and smash until everything is dead and then repeat on the next map. It's like FFT or TO but with a worse story and characters, and less robust job system.

Yeah Sticker Star is different from the previous titles, but as the only handheld entry in the series, it has a right to be IMO. The battle system was much deeper in TTYD, but I found myself running away from mobs just as much in that game because most gave you so little XP 5 minutes after you entered the area.

 

[Roto13]

At one point, Birdo swings in and out of the screen while singing a little ditty about how it doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman.

Oh my god, I forgot about that, that was *amazing*

 

[ShadowElliot]

I enjoyed Sticker Star for what it is, but Paper Mario started out as an RPG, and the last 2 games were not the same as the first 2. The dialogue is as quirky as always though.

 

[rickyson1]

it really is too bad that they never made a third paper mario game

 

[Ushojax]

I really enjoyed it too, but I understand why people hated it.

It's been 11 years since we got a real Paper Mario RPG so when Nintendo serve up two oddball entries like Super and Sticker Star, there's going to be disappointment. I'm sure he next game will be a follow up to TTYD.

 

[EndlessFloydian]

From what I've seen, it looks pretty nice. Never played it yet, but coming off of PM64 and TTYD, not sure I'd like it.

Then again, I thought SPM was okay, though I thought shoehorning in the dimension-flipping throughout the entire game was unecessary--but it could still be used a tad in future titles, IMO. It was neat, but overused.

Just throw the best parts of all of the Paper Mario games into one new game, and we may have something decent. But I think IS is pretty busy these days, anyway.

 

[jooso]

Played a bunch of this, mainly because I really liked playing a Paper Mario game again. Made it all the way to the last world and put it down for a year or so. Tried to pick it up a while a go and had no idea what to do. Then I remembered that I hated all the weird puzzles and the backtracking and the awful bossfights and the nonexistent story etc... Still haven't finished it.

 

[bon]

If Nintendo teamed up with 90's era Lucasarts to make a Mario game I would have wanted something just like Sticker Star. It's really a shame such a great and unique game will never be appreciated because people just want to play Thousand Year Door again.

It's not like there's even a shortage of standard Mario RPGs, there's like 7 of them.

 

[Franchuzas87]

I definitely like it more than Super Paper Mario. I'm not the biggest fan of the battle system, but I think the level design is usually pretty good.

Still waiting for a true Paper Mario 3, though. Easily one of my most wanted Nintendo games.

 

[Voliko]

It gets too much hate for not being a ttwd rehash, but it is flawed. The battle system is absolutely pointless, but there's a lot of cool level design and adventure/puzzle elements. The themes and settings of the worlds are boring and ridiculously tired. They really outdid themselves with the soundtrack.

 

[gerudoman]

I liked it a lot. It's not a RPG, it's an adventure game with some light RPG and platforming elements, and I liked it that way. Level design is excellent and with some really clever secrets. I didn't care for the lack of a plot either, although it would have been nice to see more crazy locations and characters, they played too safe in that regard.

Best level in the game, hands down:

 

[havaska]

I finished the game and I really didn't enjoy it compared to the other three games. It wasn't the RPG I was expecting and in some parts it's really obtuse what you have to do. The boss battles for example. It's not a bad game but no where near as good as any of the previous Paper Mario games.

 

[jacob armitage]

I'm with you, I loved it. I did need a guide for a few parts that are a bit esoteric. Also, with Mario & Luigi 4 coming out shortly after, I really appreciated it stepping away from its RPG roots

 

[Mzo]

You're not crazy. It's a charming and fun game that gets shit on for not being more traditional.

The point of combat is to dump common stickers and make money to buy better stickers, door stickers, item stickers you'll need, etc. What a worthless complaint.

 

[Dr. Buni]

You are not crazy, that is for sure. Most people who say the game suck are fan of the Paper Mario/TTYD formula, which is understandable, but that says little about the quality of the game.

I personally like Sticker Star, but my favorite Paper Mario still is Super.

No.

I am not sure why you bolded Fire Emblem, because the 3DS entry (Awakening) is an awful game.

 

[Refreshment.01]

So first off, my history with the series. I played through the original Paper Mario on 64 when it came out, briefly played Super Paper Mario before ditching it on Wii, and then earlier this month I finished my playthrough of TTYD. I really enjoyed 64 and TTYD, though I didn't quite find myself comprehending where the superlative praise comes from for TTYD.

I feel the need to preface this LTTP thread with that, because apparently fans of the series think that sticker star is perhaps the worst game that Intelligent Systems have ever released.

People complained about the complete lack of humor and character in this game, but i still found it very much intact. The only difference is that there's SO much less. After just coming off of TTYD (and experiencing the horrors of SPM), it's quite refreshing.

The graphics look absolutely beautiful on 3DS, and the paper-ness of the world is MUCH better realized than ever before. One thing that I'm neutral on is that the game is much more Mario than any other in the series, except maybe the first. TTYD and SPM felt more like "palette swap mascot RPG", whereas this is the first one since 64 that feels like a Mario game through and through. It was fun to get IS' more original take on a game world.

TL;DR - Everyone said this game sucks but I like it.

It looks to me there seems to be a lil "contradiction" (wrong word maybe?) going on here. To explain myself, the reasons why you don't like SPM on Wii are somewhat similar to why some people don't like SS on 3DS. It boils down to the game not fulfilling your expectations.

Just look about the statements in the paragraphs of your response above. SPM was considered to be hilarious with great dialogue and contemporary humor. It's visual style very distinctive and greatly realized with the Wii hardware. And the ginmick was super original to the point of probably influencing stuff like Fez, but it wasn't explored enough in the game.

My prefered one is the original on 64. What i think Nintendo should do is alternate between the SNES style and the Paper 64 one to not oversaturate the user base.

 

[leroidys]

It looks to me there seems to be a lil "contradiction" (wrong word maybe?) going on here. To explain myself, the reasons why you don't like SPM on Wii are somewhat similar to why some people don't like SS on 3DS. It boils down to the game not fulfilling your expectations.

Just look about the statements in the paragraphs of your response above. SPM was considered to be hilarious with great dialogue and contemporary humor. It's visual style very distinctive and greatly realized with the Wii hardware. And the ginmick was super original to the point of probably influencing stuff like Fez, but it wasn't explored enough in the game.

My prefered one is the original on 64. What i think Nintendo should do is alternate between the SNES style and the Paper 64 one to not oversaturate the user base.

Eh, I actually rebought SPM to play through it recently. It was just boring to me in 2006. It didn't have to do with expectations, I just couldn't do with the large amount of dialogue broken up only by frustrating feeling platforming. I'll probably make a LttP for that in the next couple months though.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Get through the rest of the game, mate, and let us know how you feel. It was my first Paper Mario. First world was a breeze...and then it got harder, maybe world 3 or something. You have no idea what to do on a number of bosses because they require certain things from ages ago that you would've forgotten about already. I had to use a guide.

 

[Shift Breaker]

One of the biggest disappointments in gaming for me in recent years. It just seems so dull and charmless compared to the past three games. Gaining no EXP isn't the issue because games like Lightning Returns prove that limiting stat gains to sidequests can be done really well, but when battling gives stickers, which are disposable and likely spent in the next battle and coins, which are spent on more disposable stickers there seems no point engaging in the core mechanics of the game, particularly when boss battles are done by using gimmicky stickers you find on the field anyway.

 

[deroli]

I enjoyed my playthrough, although it's weakest mario game I've played in recent years (SM3DLand, Bowsers Inside Story, NSMB Wii/ DS). I haven't touched any other Paper Mario game, so I can't comment on them. But the sticker based gameplay was alright, I didn't miss leveling up. You get better stickers as you advance, so there's still some progression going on. Only thing I really disliked was the backtracking to collect rare stickers to beat some tougher bosses.

 

[Refreshment.01]

If Nintendo teamed up with 90's era Lucasarts to make a Mario game I would have wanted something just like Sticker Star. It's really a shame such a great and unique game will never be appreciated because people just want to play Thousand Year Door again.

It's not like there's even a shortage of standard Mario RPGs, there's like 7 of them.

As always take with caution what it is said around these boards, people like to set them on extremes and get very pationate about it.

If i recall correctly, Sticker Star has moved more units than Paper Mario (64), TTYD (GC) and so far is still above Dream Team. At least it means something.

 

[Apenheul]

I liked the game lot for the first couple of hours or so, I thought the levels were nice little micro-worlds each with its own mini story. I forgot exactly what made me quit the game but I recall I had to revisit levels to find something while being left clueless about which levels and I found it too much of a hassle to fully explore all previous levels again. Some levels are a pain to explore anyway (like the pyramid).

 

[Baloonatic]

I really enjoyed it as well. Maybe it's because I hadn't played previous Paper Mario games beforehand so I had no real expectations for it in terms of RPG mechanics like levelling up etc.

Was definitely very surprised when I read so much negativity aimed towards it on here.

 

[Weltall Zero]

It drives me crazy that people still bring out the ridiculous "Miyamoto ruined Sticker Star" whenever he is mentioned. Sticker Star might have problems, but having less dialogue than previous games damn well isn't one of them. That some people not only think that (it's OK, opinions) but try to use that one decision to invalidate an entire career of making the game industry what it is now and inventing multiple genres, it's like they're trying to be the most ignorant troll they can imagine.

Seriously, Alan Moore gets his due respect from comic book fans, Osamu Tezuka gets his from manga fans, why are gamers so fucking ignorant and clueless about their gaming equivalent?

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Oh no wonder, you've only beaten the first world. Yeah, I remember enjoying myself, thinking the game was wonderfully charming, the music was infectiously catchy, and the art and characters were appealing and funny. And it is. (I still pull up the Decalburg theme from time to time, so catchy!)

But mark my words, once you're further in, once you need certain "thing" stickers to progress, and you have no idea where to find them, or when to use them, or what boss has which weakness, and what special sticker does which kind of attack, and your album space fills up in no time, and you need to back track to every fucking place to re-get a certain sticker to test if it is the right one you need for a boss or stage, only to waste it and begin the clueless scavenger hunt again- trust me, none of the charm, character, or catchy music will salvage this game.

Not to mention how little battles actually matter, how the plot goes nowhere, and nonexistent RPG elements in an RPG.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

I had a lot of fun with the game.

Loved the fact it combined super mario bros exploration in the paper mario world.

Boss fights required only the slightest moment of thought to try and work out what to use against them.

You could avoid fights, but at is to your own detriment, to get the most out of your sticker, you need to have learnt how to use it properly.

Honestly think the hate for the game came from the fact the game isn't thousand year door. Very fun game.

Music is incredible

 

[BowieZ]

I really enjoyed playing this game.

 

[Pandy]

it really is too bad that they never made a third paper mario game

WiiU version inbound?

Haven't seen it on any wishlists, probably because the Wii and 3DS games were mediocre, but a return to form would be welcome. (Or TTYD could be the rumoured second Gamecube remake.)
/wishful thinking

 

[Linkstrikesback]

It drives me crazy that people still bring out the ridiculous "Miyamoto ruined Sticker Star" whenever he is mentioned. Sticker Star might have problems, but having less dialogue than previous games damn well isn't one of them. That some people not only think that (it's OK, opinions) but try to use that one decision to invalidate an entire career of making the game industry what it is now and inventing multiple genres, it's like they're trying to be the most ignorant troll they can imagine.

No-one is trying to ruin his career, christ. Making a mistake doesn't invalidate the rest of your career, it just means you should focus on other things. No-one can be good at everything, even Miyamoto. Dude needs to stay away from RPGs, sure, but that doesn't mean his platformers are anything other the best in the industry.

It's the same deal with Sakatmoto: He's gone insane and should never be allowed near a metroid game again, but his approach to Tomodachi life has made that game a multimillion seller.

By his own admission, they significantly changed SS from being, as miyamoto put it, "a port of thousand year door".

Given every change they made from Thousand year door was, in my opinion, for the worse, I think that's pretty damning.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Eh, I actually rebought SPM to play through it recently. It was just boring to me in 2006. It didn't have to do with expectations, I just couldn't do with the large amount of dialogue broken up only by frustrating feeling platforming. I'll probably make a LttP for that in the next couple months though.

You seem to be catching up on Wii releases lately. Can i ask why at the time you didn't play the platform heavily or what changed these days?

As an observation Leroyds, don't you think you kind of jumped the gun with this thread? After all your play time with the game is too scarce to properly emit a judgement about it. But whatever the outcome, it will be great to have you revisiting this thread after completing the playthrough. XD

 

[NeonZ]

As always take with caution what it is said around these boards, people like to set them on extremes and get very pationate about it.

If i recall correctly, Sticker Star has moved more units than Paper Mario (64), TTYD (GC) and so far is still above Dream Team. At least it means something.

Isn't that just Japanese numbers? Do we have worldwide numbers for Sticker Star?

Fire Emblem had great production values and looked fantastic. Most of the strategy and careful balance of the series was stripped out, even playing through it on hard. It became more of a run-of-the-mill min-maxing sRPG where you grab your strongest dudes and smash until everything is dead and then repeat on the next map. It's like FFT or TO but with a worse story and characters, and less robust job system.

The main story and paralogue chapters still were balanced to be playable without any grinding though, just playing the story chapters, even if it allowed the player to min-max too. Only the DLC and a few spotpass/bonus chapters actually require min-maxing.

 

[footfunghi]

great game as long as you dont safe your best jump stickers for the last boss

im also hoping for a sequel

 

[xevis]

Also, people who hate PMSS hate because it isn't an rpg. It is an adventure/puzzle game.

I've noticed this too. Plenty of hand-wringing and teeth-gnashing because it doesn't play like TTYD. Personally, I loved Sticker Star. I loved the art style, I loved the battle system, the bosses, the puzzles, the humour. All of it. Loved it to bits.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Isn't that just Japanese numbers? Do we have worldwide numbers for Sticker Star?

Yes, we have official numbers and world wide ones. Celine was kind enough to compile them on this fantastic thread:

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=963700

Note that those are until march 2014, so they might be a bit higher by now.

 

[Bebop]

Love this game, great soundtrack too.
And I liked that it's not a TTYD-bis.

 

[TheMoon]

3DS has been a scizophrenic mess of fantastic return-to-form titles (Kid Icarus, LBW, SM3DL, Kirby Triple Deluxe), and huge misses (Yoshi's NI, Dream Team, Fire Emblem, NSMB2, Bravely Default).

To answer your original question: "am I crazy?"

Yes.