Good Job Bob
Member
Nope.
That's much better.
Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion
- Thread starter Timan
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That's much better.
Phoenix
Member
Nope.
Yes. It's back to 10.6 level of snappiness for me on a 2011 MBP.
Its also annoying as shit. Move the damn request for authorization to the freaking dialog box. There is no reason that one should have to right click or ctrl+click on an app to perform this action. In fact, the annoyance level is such that people are likely to hop into Gatekeeper and just allow Anything to work. There are some applications (like IntelliJ 11.1) that won't even work unless you turn it onto Anything. Gatekeeper raises the level of annoyance that is associated with day-to-day OSX operation.
Hopefully they listen to my feature request like they did for the "why the hell does every application say that it is accessing my contacts!" request
Good Job Bob
Member
Its also annoying as shit. Move the damn request for authorization to the freaking dialog box. There is no reason that one should have to right click or ctrl+click on an app to perform this action. In fact, the annoyance level is such that people are likely to hop into Gatekeeper and just allow Anything to work. There are some applications (like IntelliJ 11.1) that won't even work unless you turn it onto Anything. Gatekeeper raises the level of annoyance that is associated with day-to-day OSX operation.
Hopefully they listen to my feature request like they did for the "why the hell does every application say that it is accessing my contacts!" request
If you're an advanced user, why wouldn't you just turn it off in the first place?
Phoenix
Member
I firmly believe that applications should be signed and identify their signature before I let them be installed. That's the right thing for an OS to do to protect itself and the user. Turning that off is a failure of the OSes mechanic to authorize access.
That's his point. Even regular people will turn it off.
Yes that's what I like to hear!
MaximusNeo701
Member
While using bootcamp on my 07 macbook pro has been one of the best experiences ever, besides my wifi problem and hd failures, moutain lion will make me buy a new macbook pro or air and use osx. Websyncing between browsers and the formal notifications in osx instead of growl is a god send. The airplay from the laptop is the greatest thing ever now that its officially supported by osx. Also how interwoven the mobile platform and osx will be is a killer.
As much as i love win7 and could get used to win8, bleh metro blows for someone who sits infront of a computer. I like windows for using a PC to be productive and game, but osx is going to kill it for my sit on the couch and surf laptop.
As much as i love win7 and could get used to win8, bleh metro blows for someone who sits infront of a computer. I like windows for using a PC to be productive and game, but osx is going to kill it for my sit on the couch and surf laptop.
Its also annoying as shit. Move the damn request for authorization to the freaking dialog box. There is no reason that one should have to right click or ctrl+click on an app to perform this action. In fact, the annoyance level is such that people are likely to hop into Gatekeeper and just allow Anything to work. There are some applications (like IntelliJ 11.1) that won't even work unless you turn it onto Anything. Gatekeeper raises the level of annoyance that is associated with day-to-day OSX operation.
Hopefully they listen to my feature request like they did for the "why the hell does every application say that it is accessing my contacts!" request
Sorry, I have to disagree. People don't read dialog boxes, if it simply popped up one on the first run many would instinctively just click on OK and let anything run, nullifying whatever benefit gatekeeper brings to the table. Is it really so hard to right click?
How are people supposed to know to do this?
The same way you know how to do any of the super secret tricks in OS X, you just pull it from the OS X user community zeitgeist. LOL
They could say in that dialog - check to see if the user is actually paying attention and not just on autopilot. Actually, what I think they should do, and would be better than how they are doing it now, but will really piss off everyone (especially 'power users') is require a password/pin before adding it to the database of the users approved apps to run.
In practice people shouldn't know to do it, we may have to do it right now before the OS is even released and no one has released any software for it, but after it is, should a user that can't even bother typing the question "how do I run unsigned apps in OS X Mountain Lion" into Google, really be running code from developers so lazy they don't even bother getting their free signature for signing their apps? I'm not so convinced they should.
Why are they on Mac OS and not Linux, again?
All the more reason to keep them in the nice gatekeeper walls.
Do you really think there is going to be a huge number of unsigned apps the average user is going to want to use? Is there any reasons developers should choose to not sign their apps?
I believe you to be mistaken if you think the situation that exists now in the Developer Preview will persist for long after it has been released. All the major developers will either provide signed apps, offer their apps in the Mac App Store, provide a snippet of text telling the user to right click on the app icon on their website or on the background image of the DMG, or are targeting users that are hopefully smart enough to look at the OS' documentation or do a 5 second search on Google.
How do you suggest they solve the issue?
By providing proper UI, not asinine UI as you suggest.
Treefingers
Member
The idea is that by the time Mountain Lion is out, or at least relatively soon thereafter, the vast majority of apps that any regular user would want to use would be signed. So this dialog would rarely appear. Putting a "run this app" button in the dialog box would make the whole thing useless as the vast majority of people don't read dialog boxes and would just click the button blindly. The whole point of this is to make it difficult to open an app that isn't signed, so that people don't accidentally install malware.
On the other hand if I'm misinterpreting your post and you mean that they should add some text in the dialog box that lets the user know to right click if they want to open the app, I would agree.
I'm curious what the "?" button leads to on that dialog box if anyone here is running ML.
badcrumble
Member
It still irritates me that so many alert/save dialogs in OS X and Apple's own programs still pop up in their own windows instead of sliding down in a sheet from the top of the app. So much UI inconsistency.
Mac OS 10.9 should be all about unifying basic things like that and for the love of god getting rid of all the shitty skeuomorphism in Notes/Calendar/Contacts.
Anyway, I've been running 10.8 for about 24 hours now and holy crap it's so nice. ESPECIALLY Safari 5.2, what an improvement.
Mac OS 10.9 should be all about unifying basic things like that and for the love of god getting rid of all the shitty skeuomorphism in Notes/Calendar/Contacts.
Anyway, I've been running 10.8 for about 24 hours now and holy crap it's so nice. ESPECIALLY Safari 5.2, what an improvement.
Unfortunately when you have an existing body of programs for an operating system, not everything is going to be updated in a timely manner or even ever. For example, X-Chat Aqua hasn't received an update in years, but I've yet to find another IRC client for OSX that isn't a total abomination. Hell, even X-Chat Aqua isn't that good out of the box, but at least it can be polished and adjusted.
Furthermore, even if I am an advanced user grabbing some random open source package I know I can trust, the reason I like using Mac OS in the first place is because I don't have to deal with this runaround bullshit. I'm fine with scary dialog windows that require some form of non-trivial input, but hiding shit in a random dialog window is asinine.
Please, go into detail. What would be a better UI that will keep users from just randomly clicking on any old dialog box that pops up, yet keeps users from running code that is from an unknown vendor by accident?
Apple offers the right click.
I proposed a dialog box requiring a password.
And I will offer yet another probably asinine UI suggestion - A dialog box with a check box acknowledgement (like license agreements have)
This is not going to be a big issue, because I suspect most respectable vendors are going to want to get their signature so they don't have to drag their users through this process.
"proper UI" is not a proper suggestion.
Good Job Bob
Member
Have you tried Textual?
then you would select the option to run unsigned apps in gatekeeper and you never see the dialog box. youre the user that option is created for. (heck, possibly me, as well.)
It's still a useful thing to have if something SHOULD be signed but is not.
If it should be signed, contact your software vendor and ask them to do so.
If you are unwilling or unable to do so, learn to jump through the hoops Apple gives you, or send suggestions to Apple on how they can make the kinds of hoops preferable to you.
I personally am in the clear at least until they change it (per your proper UI suggestion) since I already spent the 5 seconds it took to look up and learn the hoop.
well, for a user that know what theyre doing, sure.
I honestly cant decide which way is best. I would also like the convenience but that button to run the unsigned app sort of defeats the purpose of the signed developer ID if its so easy to defeat.
I can understand Apple POV of being overly paranoid and basing their UI decision on the theoretical action of the novice user. safety over convenience.
I've liked LimeChat since it came out: http://limechat.net/mac/
It's very simple and can be themed to make it look nice.
Yeah, my primary complaint isn't that it's difficult, but rather it's like being told I don't have the proper paperwork, but at the same time not what form I need to fill out or where I need to go about looking for it.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Phoenix
Member
I certainly understand why they want to do it, but for people who have a workflow where they download a lot of stuff (not from an appstore) it just starts to become unweildy.
1) Install Eclipse .... this application is not signed
2) Install java 7 sdk ....this application is not signed
3) Install Skype ... this application is not signed
4) Install Sencha SDK tools ... this application is not signed
5) Install unity 3.5.1 ... this application is not signed
6) Install mod for Unity 3.5.1 ... this application is not signed
7) Install Eclipse 64 bit Cocoa version ... this application is not signed
8) Install patch for Office for Mac ... this application is not signed
...
That was my afternoon.
If they think the Ctrl+click (because you don't need the right click) is really going to cause people to suddenly have some introspection about installing an app that they've already downloaded with the INTENTION of installing - they are fucked in the head.
You can't break that motivation chain by getting into the middle of it and making it annoying. If someone downloaded the app, they intend to install it and the average user knows about digital signatures as much as they know about the different kinds of rat poison. What you are engineering into the system is the same shitbag that was originally engineered into Vista.
Good Job Bob
Member
And at no point did you think: maybe I should turn Gatekeeper off?
Phoenix
Member
There are opensource (and for sale) clients and servers for AirPlay out there already.
Phoenix
Member
That would be like me saying "hey people keep knocking on my door and waking me up in the morning... maybe I should just leave the door open so they can just come in". No, I don't make stupid behavior decisions because of poor design decisions, I try to get the designer to understand why their idea doesn't make sense.
Just out of curiosity, how do you have a copy of Mountain Lion, yet are unaware that it is currently in developer preview and developers haven't started signing their apps?
I am wondering what your UI solution would be.
Phoenix
Member
You assume that other developers aren't signing their apps. Developers have had the ability to sign apps since 10.7.x and there are apps out there that are signed already as the OSX App Store submission process is now based upon it. The signing infrastructure is entirely different than the Gatekeeper infrastructure that CHECKS the signatures. Apple has allowed the sandbox deadlining to be extended. How do you run OSX and have no awareness of this?
As I've mentioned previously, move the solution to the context of the user - in this case the dialog box where you tell them that the settings for Gatekeeper prevent installation. Ask them if they want to allow software from "X" to be installed and let them install it there. Security by annoyance will not work as the user will just ctrl+click or right click the application and say ok ANYWAY.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
Looks like there's an update to DP3. Anyone install it? I haven't gotten around to creating a VM for Mountain Lion yet.
A bunch of little changes, according to some posters on MacRumors.
What I really miss from 10.6, and wish was in 10.8: The ability to move windows from one space to another without having to have that particular space active. Back in Spaces, you could grab a window in any space and drag it to a different one. In Mission Control, you can only grab windows from the current active space to drag somewhere else.
secretanchitman
Member
omfg this is the best news ive heard in a long time - the old 10.5/10.6 expose is back!!!! this is the ONLY reason i didnt upgrade to lion.
Good Job Bob
Member
Why isn't there an API for third-parties to plug into the share sheets? I mean, it's not like share sheets are that useful on a desktop OS in the first place but it makes me very uneasy about iOS 6.
Nice. How stable is it? I let my Mac Dev membership expire and can't be assed to pay just to install and unstable beta.
Ken Masters
Banned
Finally back to the old exposure style, I'm liking this
Mr. Wonderful
Member
I wonder if this is going to be the default?
The worst part about this? The stupid complainers (FOR THE ENTIRE RELEASE OF LION) on MacRumors are going to feel so self-righteous after this.
I'm not convinced that 20 1x1 in windows has all that much usability over 5 stacks of 4 3x3 in windows, but I am glad they added the option to ungroup them if only so that people who are slow to adapt can shut up and eventually move on with their lives.
God damn. It took you a while Apple.Incremental volume changes are back
It's been so painful.
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